TRUE ADONIS- time to pay your bets.

[chaos]

It's okay chaos you have nothing to be guilty of if you didn't own slaves 

I personally did not, but my ancestors did.

States right are states rights, whether you agree with what they were about doesn't matter, the states wanted a right to make that choice themselves, not be forced by the federal government.

Civil War was fought over states rights, no more no less, you brainwashed turd.

[tbombz]

these retards just wont give it up ND. im glad someone else with a decent head on their shoulders showed up or else wed have the whole of getbig thinking the south was a bunch of moralists fighting for the freedoms.  



 after almost 50 years of the anti-slavery movement gaining ground in the north and in the states being established west, and after the election of abraham lincoln, the south feared slavery was about to be outlawed, and so they formed the confederacy and seceded.

FACT

 (look into their justifications for secession. outside of their legal arguments about their right to secede, their actual reasoning for seceding was based on the norths lack of enforcing the fugitive slave act and its attacks on amendmants in the u.s. constitution which protected slavery)


the facts about the treatment of blacks in the north, the facts about the reasons why the north fought, the facts about the feelings about slavery in the north are all irrelevant to the FACT that the south seceded because they were trying to preserve slavery.

yes, slavery would have eventually been abolished in the south because human beings tend to make forward moral progress and theres evidence that such a movement would have occured in the south.  BUT this is of no consequence to the fact that at the time of the civil war the south was fighting to preserve slavery. plain and simple.

[tbombz]

Hahahahahahaha you will never escape the FACT that the states ' rights ' were specifically over slavery , even the first state to secede ( South Carolina ) in their declaration says outright it's because of the slavery issue

the states right to own , acquire , transport , and expand ( into the new territories ) slavery the possession of human beings as property , where ever you look preceding the Civil war you will find the slavery issue , hence it was a major reason behind ( among others )

It's okay chaos you have nothing to be guilty of if you didn't own slaves 

secession started the war and secession was about slavery.  theres no states rights involved.

[chaos]

secession started the war and secession was about slavery.  theres no states rights involved.

The states right to secede

[tbombz]

The states right to secede

so the south seceded because the north was infringing on their right to secede? 


no, they seceded to preserve slavery. and the secession started the war.



CAUSE-->EFFECT


states rights had nothing to do with the secession.


now, is there a debate to be had about whether or not a state has a right to secede from the union without a war being waged on them in return? sure, but that is not what the secession was about, thats not what the war was about. the war was about the secession and the secession was about slavery.

[grab an umbrella]

so the south seceded because the north was infringing on their right to secede? 


no, they seceded to preserve slavery. and the secession started the war.



CAUSE-->EFFECT


states rights had nothing to do with the secession.


now, is there a debate to be had about whether or not a state has a right to secede from the union without a war being waged on them in return? sure, but that is not what the secession was about, thats not what the war was about. the war was about the secession and the secession was about slavery.

If a state freely joins a union should it be allowed to freely leave?

[The True Adonis]

North Carolina surely did not secede to protect slavery.  That is just factually incorrect.

[tbombz]

If a state freely joins a union should it be allowed to freely leave?

its not simply yes or no, ideally we would want to allow people and governments to do as they please, but whether or not we allow a state to secede would depend on its reasonings for doing so. in the case that it had sufficient justification then i would be more inclined to change the union in a way that rids the state of its justification. because i only see sufficient reasoning for secession if the union is imposing oppressive and immoral regulations and those ought to be abolished anyhow. in the case a state does not have sufficient justification, and i would say just "feeling like it" is definitely not a justification, then they should be forced to remain. i feel this way as i believe that the larger geographic area and populice a government controls the more effeciently and effectively it can promote the peace, freedom, and well being of its citizens. so allowing states to meander off without reason would be to allow them to damage the rest of the countries potential for prosperity.  

[The True Adonis]

North Carolina only seceded after Ft. Sumter, the Last State to Secede.  

[tbombz]

North Carolina surely did not secede to protect slavery.  That is just factually incorrect.

North Carolina only seceded after Ft. Sumter, the Last State to Secede.  

the premise is =
 
war is caused by secession of southern states, southern states seceeded to preserve slavery.


whether or not a state jumps into secession at the last minute for reasons other than slavery is irrelevant to that premise, its only relevant to north carolinians who wish to make it known that their kin didnt fight for slavery but for kinship alone.

[The True Adonis]

the premise is =
 
war is caused by secession of southern states, southern states seceeded to preserve slavery.


whether or not a state jumps into secession at the last minute for reasons other than slavery is irrelevant to that premise, its only relevant to north carolinians who wish to make it known that their kin didnt fight for slavery but for kinship alone.

That statement fails miserably as all of the Southern States were not fighting to preserve Slavery (the idea you and ND are wrongly putting forth).  North Carolina did not secede to preserve slavery so you cannot make the statement that "Southern States seceded to preserve slavery".  It doesn`t make any sense.

[tbombz]

That statement fails miserably as all of the Southern States were not fighting to preserve Slavery (the idea you and ND are wrongly putting forth).  North Carolina did not secede to preserve slavery so you cannot make the statement that "Southern States seceded to preserve slavery".  It doesn`t make any sense.

  the war started before north carolina seceeded. whatever the cause of the war, it could not have had anything to do with north carolina due to.. lack of time travel. dumb shit. you should have went to college and taken a basic logic course you would understand better how to make sequitor arguments

[tbombz]

here, this is taken from a historical website operated by southern apologists who maintain the war was fought over states right to secession.

During the presidential election of 1860, Southern leaders told the South to secede from the Union if Lincoln were to win the election because they believed Lincoln was an abolitionist. Abolitionists were people who worked to get rid of slavery. The South was afraid that Lincoln would outlaw slavery while in office. This would have created a problem for the South since its way of life depended on slaves. It would have prevented the South from thriving. Southern farmers would be forced to pay their former slaves in return for working on the farms. Plantation owners would make less money since most of the people working on the plantations would have to be paid. In other words, the main reason the Southern states seceded from the Union was to escape what they felt was a threat to their right to own slaves.


^^^  secession was about slavery.









now, its time to come to end this silly thread and ill do so by making a concession.  

who started the war? the north.
why did the north start the war? to force the south to remain in the union.
was slavery part of the reason why the north started the war? no.

those are facts. the civil war was started to preserve the union, not to end slavery. fact.



now, that being said, we have some other facts.

what caused the north to start the war? the southern states secession.
what caused the southern states to secede? their fear of losing slavery.
what was the confederacy started to preserve? the institution of slavery.


the north was fighting to preserve the union, the south was fighting to preserve slavery.




this whole conversation began because i told you, adam, that the confederacy and the confederate flag was not to be celebrated, but to be shamed. and if one views slavery as immoral, then one has to condemn the confederacy. fact. done. no argument.   

[CT_Muscle]

The American Civil War (1861–1865) was a civil war in the United States of America. Eleven Southern slave states declared their secession from the United States and formed the Confederate States of America ("the Confederacy") to fight for independence. Twenty (mostly Northern) free states in which slavery already had been abolished, and five slave states that became known as the "border states" supported the federal government. These twenty-five states, referred to as the Union, had a much larger base of population and industry than the South. After four years of warfare, mostly within the Southern states, the Confederacy surrendered and slavery was outlawed everywhere in the nation. Issues that led to war were resolved only in the Reconstruction Era that followed the restoration of the Union.

NOW POST A FUCKIN PIC ADONIS!!!

[no one]

we now interrupt this political debate for a little humour.

[tbombz]

bitches love me, nothing funny about that.

[Doug_Steele]

we now interrupt this political debate for a little humour.

Is that the way he enters class?  

[tbombz]

now, its time to come to end this silly thread and ill do so by making a concession.  

who started the war? the north.
why did the north start the war? to force the south to remain in the union.
was slavery part of the reason why the north started the war? no.

those are facts. the civil war was started to preserve the union, not to end slavery. fact.



now, that being said, we have some other facts.

what caused the north to start the war? the southern states secession.
what caused the southern states to secede? their fear of losing slavery.
what was the confederacy started to preserve? the institution of slavery.


the north was fighting to preserve the union, the south was fighting to preserve slavery.




this whole conversation began because i told you, adam, that the confederacy and the confederate flag was not to be celebrated, but to be shamed. and if one views slavery as immoral, then one has to condemn the confederacy. fact. done. no argument.  

[no one]

NOW POST A FUCKIN PIC ADONIS!!!

lol

dude, has doesnt have a pic to post of what he looks like now. of his house. or anything hes made claim to. because, sadly he is a liar and a fraud.

and this entire thread is a fitting tribute to all of that.

[no one]

Is that the way he enters class?  

i've seen bigger legs on a brook trout.

[Doug_Steele]

i've seen bigger legs on a brook trout.

Bro, you're going to hurt his feelings.

[CT_Muscle]

lol

dude, has doesnt have a pic to post of what he looks like now. of his house. or anything hes made claim to. because, sadly he is a liar and a fraud.

and this entire thread is a fitting tribute to all of that.

what will happen first adonis posts a pic or alice diets down and competes against coach

[kiwiol]

Who made the comment about Adonis breaking out the bold red font when he gets serious? One of the funniest posts ever

[no one]

what will happen first adonis posts a pic or alice diets down and competes against coach

oprah will win a figure show in 2012.

[The True Adonis]

  the war started before north carolina seceeded. whatever the cause of the war, it could not have had anything to do with north carolina due to.. lack of time travel. dumb shit. you should have went to college and taken a basic logic course you would understand better how to make sequitor arguments

Your logic is flawed beyond belief and the facts certainly are not on your side.  You can call me whatever name you wish as it will not change the course of history one iota, nor will you ever be correct.  When North Carolina drafted their Ordinance of Secession, Slavery was not even considered an issue.  The same applies to Four other states, including mighty Virginia.  

If this is the best of the California Public School system, where I presume you learned such incorrect drivel, I am not impressed one bit and they have failed you and you have failed yourself.

Afterall, California has moved to teach "Gay History" now in Schools which is the most absurd thing I have ever heard in my life.  As if anyone did anything in History because they were motivated by the cock.  

Perhaps you can be the first in the History books there, my dear TDongz.