Texas Sonogram Law: Judge Strikes Down Key Provisions Of Abortion Bill

[Soul Crusher]

I assume you're fine with it too

right?

Wrong.  I dont favor either. 

Good job on your double standards.   

[Straw Man]

Wrong.  I dont favor either. 

Good job on your double standards.   

amazing

other than the mandate (which is necessary for an insurance program to work) tell me what the Texas abortion law has in common with the healthcare legislation

[Soul Crusher]

amazing

other than the mandate (which is necessary for an insurance program to work) tell me what the Texas abortion law has in common with the healthcare legislation

GOVT FORCING TO DO SOMETHING AGAINST THEIR WILL! 

[Straw Man]

GOVT FORCING TO DO SOMETHING AGAINST THEIR WILL! 

nice caps

so govt should never force you to do something against your will

is that what you're saying

so you're pro choice

you're against things like speed limits

you should haven't have pay any income taxes if you don't want to

If you're building a house you shouldn't have to follow any buidling codes

If you own a business you should have to follow any labor laws, etc..

do you want to refine your STATEMENT a little bit

[Soul Crusher]

Not at all.   I dont believe in the income tax one bit. 

Most of those other things are a matter of choice. 

You dont have to build a house if you dont want, hire, etc. 

 

[Straw Man]

Not at all.   I dont believe in the income tax one bit. 

Most of those other things are a matter of choice. 

You dont have to build a house if you dont want, hire, etc. 
 

so if you want to build a house or drive a car or own a business then you are fine with the government telling you what to do?

right?

[Soul Crusher]

so if you want to build a house or drive a car or own a business then you are fine with the government telling you what to do?

right?

Like I said - its all a matter of choice and I do agree with some minimual level of rules just for business certaity and stability - but that does not even remotely compare to what we have now. 

BTW - I need a good laugh - can you please offer your opinion on the jobs report. 

[Straw Man]

Like I said - its all a matter of choice and I do agree with some minimual level of rules just for business certaity and stability - but that does not even remotely compare to what we have now.  BTW - I need a good laugh - can you please offer your opinion on the jobs report. 

I'm not aware that we have had any major change in the "rules" that effect our lives since Obama got in office.   I know you'll SCREAM obama care but that personally has had no effect on my life and so far haven't heard anyone who can tell me any negative effect on their life either

Regarding jobs the report and downward revisions are obviously not good

hopefully Obama will have something to say next week that will help

I would look forward to any Repub ideas too.

Repubs have controlled Congress all year and I don't recall them offering any legislation to promote job growth.    Maybe you can recall something

[Soul Crusher]

I'm not aware that we have had any major change in the "rules" that effect our lives since Obama got in office.   I know you'll SCREAM obama care but that personally has had no effect on my life and so far haven't heard anyone who can tell me any negative effect on their life either

Regarding jobs the report and downward revisions are obviously not good

hopefully Obama will have something to say next week that will help

I would look forward to any Repub ideas too.

Repubs have controlled Congress all year and I don't recall them offering any legislation to promote job growth.    Maybe you can recall something

uuugggh,, they passed the repeal of ObamaCare which is the nations biggest job killer going.   

[Straw Man]

uuugggh,, they passed the repeal of ObamaCare which is the nations biggest job killer going.   

nice talking point

so other than a worthless vote that did nothing (and of coure the Repubs know this to be a fact) they've done nothing else to help promote jobs growth?

btw - do you really think Obama is concerned about healthcare or was that legislation just part of his plan to collapse the the country? 

[Soul Crusher]

nice talking point

so other than a worthless vote that did nothing (and of coure the Repubs know this to be a fact) they've done nothing else to help promote jobs growth?

btw - do you really think Obama is concerned about healthcare or was that legislation just part of his plan to collapse the the country? 

[Straw Man]

333

seriously man

this is a chart from the Heritage Foundation and that is fine but when you read it do you see "proof" of cause and effect on jobs

read it again and then again and then connect the dots

[Skip8282]

Can't believe the judge left in place the requirement to get a sonogram.

Is it really too hard to leave these women alone?

[tonymctones]

I'm fine with the provisions in the legislation now tell us how your life has changed and what "plans" you've put in place to deal with the legislation.   I don't understand what you mean

so youre saying that this bill and obamacare are one in the same and youre for one yet against another?

hmmmmm....sounds about par for you...double standards out the ass....

well you see straw, my company has about 450 employees many of which are part time. We also have contracts that go out years into the future. As a result of the bill requiring companies to add up part time worker hours to determine the amount they will be penalized. We have to keep track of part time hours for similiar jobs or the jobs we currently have whos contracts go out so many years. We also have to be very careful about what bids we give and contracts we bid on. You see if our margins dont take into account the rise in cost due to the penalties we will have to pay for part time workers a contract that was profitable before the penalties could be a loss after...

[Straw Man]

so youre saying that this bill and obamacare are one in the same and youre for one yet against another?

hmmmmm....sounds about par for you...double standards out the ass....

well you see straw, my company has about 450 employees many of which are part time. We also have contracts that go out years into the future. As a result of the bill requiring companies to add up part time worker hours to determine the amount they will be penalized. We have to keep track of part time hours for similiar jobs or the jobs we currently have whos contracts go out so many years. We also have to be very careful about what bids we give and contracts we bid on. You see if our margins dont take into account the rise in cost due to the penalties we will have to pay for part time workers a contract that was profitable before the penalties could be a loss after...

I said that flippantly in response to 333's comment about a mandate

To be clear I do not think they (the sonogram law and healthcare legislation)  are the same and I really don't even think it's equivalent to the mandate in the healthcare legislation

You have to have a mandate in the healthcare legislation or people won't buy insurance and then when they become sick or injured they will want access to the program which will skew the burdern of their healthcare costs on people who have been paying into the system for years prior.  There is no analog to this situation with the sonogram and lecture law.

I do think as a general rule, both parties are the same in the sense that they are both beholden to their corporate patrons in order to get elected

To the topic of this thread - Republicans claim to be against Big Government and claim that Dems want to "control your private life" but they turn around and use government to get into the private life of woman in the most invasive way imaginable and for no justifiable reason except that Republican are primarily christians and christians are againts abortion.   It's nothing more than a proxy to force another person  to adopt (or attempt to adopt) a state sanctioned religious belief.  That was the reason to try to force woman to VIEW the sonogram and to force doctors to say things against their will and some doctors say, in violation of medical ethics

[Straw Man]

uuugggh,, they passed the repeal of ObamaCare which is the nations biggest job killer going.  

good job hitting the Repub talking point

do you have any data to support your claim of "biggest job kller going" or you you just feel it in your gut

from politifact.com

Republicans like to repeat this claim, but we found very little substance to back it up. Most nonpartisan analysts say that overall job losses or gains because of the bill will not be significant. "To the extent that changes in the health insurance system lead to improved health status among workers, the nation’s economic productivity could be enhanced," said the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office. "It is not clear, however, whether such changes would have a substantial impact on overall economic productivity or output." We gave Rep. Eric Cantor, R-Va., a False for this statement.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/jan/20/eric-cantor/health-care-law-job-killer-evidence-falls-short/

[tonymctones]

I said that flippantly in response to 333's comment about a mandate

To be clear I do not think they (the sonogram law and healthcare legislation)  are the same and I really don't even think it's equivalent to the mandate in the healthcare legislation

You have to have a mandate in the healthcare legislation or people won't buy insurance and then when they become sick or injured they will want access to the program which will skew the burdern of their healthcare costs on people who have been paying into the system for years prior.  There is no analog to this situation with the sonogram and lecture law.

I do think as a general rule, both parties are the same in the sense that they are both beholden to their corporate patrons in order to get elected

To the topic of this thread - Republicans claim to be against Big Government and claim that Dems want to "control your private life" but they turn around and use government to get into the private life of woman in the most invasive way imaginable and for no justifiable reason except that Republican are primarily christians and christians are againts abortion.   It's nothing more than a proxy to force another person  to adopt (or attempt to adopt) a state sanctioned religious belief.  That was the reason to try to force woman to VIEW the sonogram and to force doctors to say things against their will and some doctors say, in violation of medical ethics

I said that flippantly in response to 333's comment about a mandate

To be clear I do not think they (the sonogram law and healthcare legislation)  are the same and I really don't even think it's equivalent to the mandate in the healthcare legislation

You have to have a mandate in the healthcare legislation or people won't buy insurance and then when they become sick or injured they will want access to the program which will skew the burdern of their healthcare costs on people who have been paying into the system for years prior.  There is no analog to this situation with the sonogram and lecture law.

I do think as a general rule, both parties are the same in the sense that they are both beholden to their corporate patrons in order to get elected

To the topic of this thread - Republicans claim to be against Big Government and claim that Dems want to "control your private life" but they turn around and use government to get into the private life of woman in the most invasive way imaginable and for no justifiable reason except that Republican are primarily christians and christians are againts abortion.   It's nothing more than a proxy to force another person  to adopt (or attempt to adopt) a state sanctioned religious belief.  That was the reason to try to force woman to VIEW the sonogram and to force doctors to say things against their will and some doctors say, in violation of medical ethics

First off the health care bill is going to do that anyway b/c it is cheaper to not carry insurance and pay the penalty than it is to carry insurance...

second I agree with you on the both political parties.

third there are plenty of reasons outside of religion to be against abortion...

what gets me is the lefts idea that the man should be forced to own up to his actions but not the woman.

If you want equality then fight for it all the way around not just for one persons equality.

[Straw Man]

First off the health care bill is going to do that anyway b/c it is cheaper to not carry insurance and pay the penalty than it is to carry insurance...
second I agree with you on the both political parties.

third there are plenty of reasons outside of religion to be against abortion...

what gets me is the lefts idea that the man should be forced to own up to his actions but not the woman.

If you want equality then fight for it all the way around not just for one persons equality.

because you understand the need for full participation and the inherent flaws we can actually have a discussion about this


there is no "equality" in pregnancy and you can't make it so by mandate

[tonymctones]

because you understand the need for full participation and the inherent flaws we can actually have a discussion about this


there is no "equality" in pregnancy and you can't make it so by mandate

the problem is straw that even with "full participation" you wont get it bc again its cheaper to not carry insurance than it is to carry it.

B/c insurance companies must give policies to anyone at anytime, How do you think they will account for the new risks? They will continue to raise premiums...

Never said there was equality in the sense im sure your thinking of about her carrying the baby...But thats her choice....there are equal choices to get into that position and holding one person accountable for their choice and not the other for the exact same choice is not right...

[Straw Man]

the problem is straw that even with "full participation" you wont get it bc again its cheaper to not carry insurance than it is to carry it.
B/c insurance companies must give policies to anyone at anytime, How do you think they will account for the new risks? They will continue to raise premiums...

Never said there was equality, but there are equal choices and holding one person accountable for their choice and not the other for the exact same choice is not right...

so you must find a valid way to enforce that or eliminate it

there are not equal choices in pregnancy

[tonymctones]

so you must find a valid way to enforce that or eliminate it

there are not equal choices in pregnancy

sorry i didnt explain fully

there certainly are equal choices in getting pregnant...wouldnt you agree?

so again holding one person accountable for their choice and not the other for the exact same choice is not right

[Straw Man]

sorry i didnt explain fully

there certainly are equal choices in getting pregnant...wouldnt you agree?

so again holding one person accountable for their choice and not the other for the exact same choice is not right

you mean the choice of having sex

I'd call that an equal choice assuming no rape, incest, etc...

the consequence of sex......pregnancy,   is not an equal outcome and so far, there is nothing we can do to change that

[tonymctones]

you mean the choice of having sex

I'd call that an equal choice assuming no rape, incest, etc...

the consequence of sex......pregnancy,   is not an equal outcome and so far, there is nothing we can do to change that

correct but again your holding one person responsible for an equal choice, the same exact choice youre not holding the other person responsible for is my point.

Pregnancy isnt equal but then again either is the justice system when it comes to men and women and their parental rights after the child is born.

at any rate I know we will never convience each other of our respective points of views, its nice to know that we can still have a civil conversation from time to time...you liberal moron

sorry I have to keep up apperances