Couple questions re: test and gh15

[calfzilla]

First question:  why is it highly recommended that all steroids be done with a test base?  I understand if you want to get huge or be a pro, but what about someone who just wants to add a little size or leans for the club or beach? 

Sorry if this question is dumb, I'm natural and don't know much about juice.

Question 2:  what are gh15s opinions on PCT?  I may be very mistaken with someone else, but didn't he say it is essentially balonie? 

[hangclean]

First question:  why is it highly recommended that all steroids be done with a test base?  I understand if you want to get huge or be a pro, but what about someone who just wants to add a little size or leans for the club or beach? 

Sorry if this question is dumb, I'm natural and don't know much about juice.

Question 2:  what are gh15s opinions on PCT?  I may be very mistaken with someone else, but didn't he say it is essentially balonie? 

PCT is a way for drug dealers to sell you more shit.  ONce you start using hormones, you better be prepared to stay on them for the long run.

[Arnold jr]

PCT is a way for drug dealers to sell you more shit.  ONce you start using hormones, you better be prepared to stay on them for the long run.

That's just not true, no steroid dealer is making any real money on SERM's and things of that nature. The only reason any steroid supplier even carries stuff like that is to attract customers and that's it, that way someone can do all their shopping with them. Of course they're making a little off of it but not that much and there are some who simply sell it at cost just as an added bonus to keep their customers happy and a lot more of them than you might think.

[Arnold jr]

First question:  why is it highly recommended that all steroids be done with a test base?  I understand if you want to get huge or be a pro, but what about someone who just wants to add a little size or leans for the club or beach? 

Sorry if this question is dumb, I'm natural and don't know much about juice.

Question 2:  what are gh15s opinions on PCT?  I may be very mistaken with someone else, but didn't he say it is essentially balonie? 

You're right, test isn't an absolute must but it's recommended in the majority of cases for a few reasons. It's very well-tolerated by most men, it's one of the most effective and efficient steroids and yes, there's a big difference between effectiveness and efficiency and in the case of test you have both. Secondly it's generally recommended because all anabolic steroids suppress your natural testosterone production, the degree of suppression can vary from steroid to steroid; for example, Anavar doesn't suppress as much as Deca-Durabolin but both suppress. And no, you won't "get huge" just because you take test, if you don't eat big you won't be big. If you want to as you said "add a little size or leans for the club or beach" test can give you that...how you eat, live and train will depend on the extent of what you want.

PCT, it's not garbage if you're going to come off for an extended period of time. If you're only going to come off for short periods of time then yes it is a waste and pointless. If you're only going to come off for short periods of time and running a PCT plan you're creating in my opinion too much undue stress on the body, too much up and down if you will and that's unnecessary. However, if you're going to come off for an extended period of time PCT will help normalize you and the faster you can normalize the healthier you'll be. No, contrary to popular belief even the best PCT plan in the world won't bring you back to 100% normal hormone production but it'll get you on the right track much faster than without.

[hangclean]

That's just not true, no steroid dealer is making any real money on SERM's and things of that nature. The only reason any steroid supplier even carries stuff like that is to attract customers and that's it, that way someone can do all their shopping with them. Of course they're making a little off of it but not that much and there are some who simply sell it at cost just as an added bonus to keep their customers happy and a lot more of them than you might think.

Oh, really?  Why don't you ask those guys running those "research chemical" companies how high their markup is for Nolvadex and clomid.  Not only that, those drugs do not do shit to restart your nattie production.

[Arnold jr]

Oh, really?  Why don't you ask those guys running those "research chemical" companies how high their markup is for Nolvadex and clomid.  Not only that, those drugs do not do shit to restart your nattie production.

You referred to steroid dealers, not research chemical companies. Steroid dealers do not sell PCT meds because it turns them a big profit, the money is in the steroidal hormones, not the SERM's and AI's.

How can you say things like Nolva and Clomid do nothing to restart natural testosterone production? Both of those greatly stimulate the release of LH. Further, many hormone replacement clinics and endo's prescribe AI's and SERM's to guys who suffer from low testosterone. I'm not saying SERM's and AI's are the best treatment for low testosterone, obviously injecting testosterone itself is the most effective but this can work and it works simply by stimulating the release of LH and FSH. These are long standing proven facts.

[hangclean]

You referred to steroid dealers, not research chemical companies. Steroid dealers do not sell PCT meds because it turns them a big profit, the money is in the steroidal hormones, not the SERM's and AI's.

How can you say things like Nolva and Clomid do nothing to restart natural testosterone production? Both of those greatly stimulate the release of LH. Further, many hormone replacement clinics and endo's prescribe AI's and SERM's to guys who suffer from low testosterone. I'm not saying SERM's and AI's are the best treatment for low testosterone, obviously injecting testosterone itself is the most effective but this can work and it works simply by stimulating the release of LH and FSH. These are long standing proven facts.

Research chem companies are drug dealers operating through loopholes in the law.  Also, I have personally seen people get bloodwork done after using clomid/nolvadex 6 months after cycle and there levels were low.  My point is, once you make the decision to use hormones, you better be prepared to use them for the rest of your life, or be prepared to have fucked up hormone levels when you come off, even with a "proper PCT."

[tbombz]

 pct drugs do work.

 most people dont understand which drugs are necessary and which arent. hcg is the most important pct drug. your body doesnt have any issues turning on LH and signaling your testes to fire up the engines... the problem lies in the engine itself. your nuts have been out of operation for a while and the cells inside which produce things are rusty and some have died.  SERMS like clomid and nolva work to boost LH but do nothing to get the balls working again. HCG gets the balls working. once the nuts are up and running using nolva or clomid can help keep them turning out the hormones and sperm at a high rate but they arent necessary unless you have low LH levels.. which most dont. 

the issue is that coming going on gear just to come off of it later is kind of pointless. and so pct is too.

[whitewidow]

huge doses of HCG work great. and they can actually lean you out. HCG is a great PCT drug. clomid works well too-IMO. DHEA will also elevate your natural test level. thats what I use. also a trib supp is good too. I use all of them. my pct is HCG, DHEA, Trib and clomid and my natural test was pretty high 758ng.
My test level was not suffering where I had to rely on injectable Test forever.wich most people who use 10 months out of the year have to do. DHEA is a very over looked OTC drug. Its not good if you have cancer in the family. If you are someone with alot of cancer in the family I would be careful with DHEA it will bring on the cancer way faster.most of us are still young and do not have cancer so it should be fine but if you have cancer DHEA is the last thing you want to use.

[hangclean]

huge doses of HCG work great. and they can actually lean you out. HCG is a great PCT drug. clomid works well too-IMO. DHEA will also elevate your natural test level. thats what I use. also a trib supp is good too. I use all of them. my pct is HCG, DHEA, Trib and clomid and my natural test was pretty high 758ng.
My test level was not suffering where I had to rely on injectable Test forever.wich most people who use 10 months out of the year have to do. DHEA is a very over looked OTC drug. Its not good if you have cancer in the family. If you are someone with alot of cancer in the family I would be careful with DHEA it will bring on the cancer way faster.most of us are still young and do not have cancer so it should be fine but if you have cancer DHEA is the last thing you want to use.

Tribulus is one of the biggest rip-offs in the history of the supplement industry.  Also, HCG works best when used while you are actually on the hormones.

[calfzilla]

Lots of cotradicting replies.

So if one did a short cycle of primo or epistane or tren or var, would Pct like nolvadex be needed. Also would it fuck upmones hormones for life or would thing return to normal after a couple months? 

[WillGrant]

Lots of cotradicting replies.

So if one did a short cycle of primo or epistane or tren or var, would Pct like nolvadex be needed. Also would it fuck upmones hormones for life or would thing return to normal after a couple months? 

You can use PCT drugs to quickly kickstart production - theres still going to be some form of lag as you then have to come off the PCT drugs  -  then you will lose the muscle you gained whilst on cycle - you go on drugs and want to keep the gains made on cycle then you must stay on the drugs and dont let anyone tell you otherwise cos they are full of shit.. weight on the scale is no indication either we are talking lean tissue here.

[NewDawn]

You are better off running HCG while on cycle as it will keep the cells from dying off in the first place. Then when it is time for recovery the engine will fire flawlessly. Low doses of 250-500iu e3d will work wonders. Starting from day 1 of the cycle and ending 4 days prior to starting PCT. You can even run the last two doses around 1500iu each just to kick things off.

[calfzilla]

Can anyone shed some light on the dr. D pulse method?

[qbkilla]

add a little size for the club? LOL 

[calfzilla]

add a little size for the club? LOL 

Sure, not everyone wants to sport a thong and a tan and pose in front of men.

[BiGHer]

Test isn't NECESSARY but it will be helpful at least in a low dose for a variety of reasons.  If you want these reasons, I'll list them, but not in the modd for writing all that.

gh15 doesn't believe in PCT.  Which if you are competing then that makes sense because coming off means negative progress unless you can afford to do 6 month retarded blasts of high doses and your body can handle it ala levrone.  As I stated in another thread, your body will seek homeostasis and you'll be fine, just depends if you can handle the down sides of low test for a period of time.

[tstmaniac]

PCT is a way for drug dealers to sell you more shit.  ONce you start using hormones, you better be prepared to stay on them for the long run.

  ...you gotta be joking

[tstmaniac]

Tribulus is one of the biggest rip-offs in the history of the supplement industry.  Also, HCG works best when used while you are actually on the hormones.

many people recover really well using hcg after coming off..it really depends on the person...i have used it on and after cycles and like to use it during longer cycles...but some people will run into problems if their dose is too high...using hcg at the end of a cycle along with arimidex and clomid is very effective..

[hangclean]

...you gotta be joking

no, I am not joking.  I really believe that anyone who is planning on doing this shit, better be prepared to be in it for the long haul.

[tstmaniac]

no, I am not joking.  I really believe that anyone who is planning on doing this shit, better be prepared to be in it for the long haul.

For a lot of the gym rats on this board the benefits don't outweigh the risks to stay in it for the long haul..not everybody who uses is trying to be a pro bodybuilder...pct is not just another way for drug dealers to make money its important to cycle responsibly if your not tryin to be a pro bodybuilder

[Meso_z]

no, I am not joking.  I really believe that anyone who is planning on doing this shit, better be prepared to be in it for the long haul.

Dpends on your personality.

If you have an addictive personality you will stay forever on one way or another...

I have one..but fight it. lol