Westboro Baptist Church family disowns daughter — 20/20

[Hugo Chavez]

Why would did your mother continue to see this doctor if that's what his diagnosis was?  Secondly, why did you allow that continue on and not find another doctor who wasn't an idiot?  I'm not attacking you or anything, but even as someone who believes in God myself, I wouldn't allow a member of my family to see someone who wasn't going to give them the best possible care.

me and my sister were totally against this doctor, but it wasn't legally our call.  My father believed in her psycho crap.  The exorcism pretty much killed her so there wasn't much point in it after that.  I do remember she didn't want to do anything like that so they tricked her letting her think it was for something else and they wouldn't let her leave when she wanted to leave, we know that from phone calls made to my father while this was going on.  They did this to her for about half a day while we were trying to figure out where the hell she was.  Before she got sick, my father wasn't really a christian.  didn't go to church and didn't read the bible or any of that.  He was desperate for something when this happened and the good doctor was right there to exploit that.

Me and my sister were also told by the doctor that part of why my mother was dying was because we were not christian and that the only full way to save her was for us to believe.  She even gave us bible assignments  It got so strange at one point, we had to hide things, recover from the garbage, that the doctor had deemed evil and needed destroyed.  She toured the house and started picking out things that were evil and had to go... WTF...  One of the things actually being a christian book about marytrs from the 1600s lol...  I guess it looked evil...  She's not alone either.  There are others like her, she learned the crap from a church here, I think born again type of stuff.  We're still occationally reminded today that if we don't become Christian, we'll never get to see loved ones we've lost again...  sick way of converting people...  I don't think this kind of stuff is rare.  I think more christians are like this and some like to admit.

[outby43]

That's some fucked up stuff Hugo.  It's a shame you went through that.

[Deicide]

I'm sure they would, it doesn't change the fact that they are not of Christ.  I've seen quite a lot of footage of these individuals and they are anything but Christians.  They go against everything that is of God and of Christ, what they claim is irrelevent, their actions speak ten fold of their true beliefs.

Cherry picking.

[loco]

me and my sister were totally against this doctor, but it wasn't legally our call.  My father believed in her psycho crap.  The exorcism pretty much killed her so there wasn't much point in it after that.  I do remember she didn't want to do anything like that so they tricked her letting her think it was for something else and they wouldn't let her leave when she wanted to leave, we know that from phone calls made to my father while this was going on.  They did this to her for about half a day while we were trying to figure out where the hell she was.  Before she got sick, my father wasn't really a christian.  didn't go to church and didn't read the bible or any of that.  He was desperate for something when this happened and the good doctor was right there to exploit that.

Me and my sister were also told by the doctor that part of why my mother was dying was because we were not christian and that the only full way to save her was for us to believe.  She even gave us bible assignments  It got so strange at one point, we had to hide things, recover from the garbage, that the doctor had deemed evil and needed destroyed.  She toured the house and started picking out things that were evil and had to go... WTF...  One of the things actually being a christian book about marytrs from the 1600s lol...  I guess it looked evil...  She's not alone either.  There are others like her, she learned the crap from a church here, I think born again type of stuff.  We're still occationally reminded today that if we don't become Christian, we'll never get to see loved ones we've lost again...  sick way of converting people...  I don't think this kind of stuff is rare.  I think more christians are like this and some like to admit.

That is terrible Hugo!  I'm sorry that you and your family went through all that!

[Deicide]

That is terrible Hugo!  I'm sorry that you and your family went through all that!

Are you saying that exorcism is not a proper form of medical treatment?

[loco]

Are you saying that exorcism is not a proper form of medical treatment?

I'm saying that is terrible for Hugo and his family, and that I am sorry that happened to him and his family.

[Deicide]

I'm saying that is terrible for Hugo and his family, and that I am sorry that happened to him and his family.

So a question, is exorcism sometimes helpful for medical conditions?

[loco]

So a question, is exorcism sometimes helpful for medical conditions?

No

[Deicide]

No

Why do think some Christians believe it is?

[loco]

Why do think some Christians believe it is?

Please explain!  I wasn't aware that Christians believe exorcism is a cure for any medical condition.

[Hugo Chavez]

thanks loco and outby43. 

I probably shouldn't have flipped out like I did on page one, I just get pissed all over again when I see people like this hurting innocent people with what they believe.

[Emmortal]

Cherry picking.

You mean like how atheists cherry pick scriptures without noting historical or social context in order to prove some wild opinion?

People can cherry pick all they want, it doesn't prove they are right.  Fact is these people go against the very core message of Jesus Christ, there's no if's and's or but's about it.  The scripture, when it comes to how we are to treat others, not judging, forgiveness etc is very well laid out in black and white, it's not open for interpretation.  Anyone who goes against that it has a clear message for, especially those who commit acts in Christ's name that opposes his word.

[Agnostic007]

You mean like how atheists cherry pick scriptures without noting historical or social context in order to prove some wild opinion?

People can cherry pick all they want, it doesn't prove they are right.  Fact is these people go against the very core message of Jesus Christ, there's no if's and's or but's about it.  The scripture, when it comes to how we are to treat others, not judging, forgiveness etc is very well laid out in black and white, it's not open for interpretation.  Anyone who goes against that it has a clear message for, especially those who commit acts in Christ's name that opposes his word.

but... isn't the premise of Christianity itself pretty horrible? In a nutshell it says "Love me or burn in hell for eternity, your choice"... Yes, you can pretty it up, but the cornerstone of Christianity still remains "Either believe in me and worship me or spend eternity in hell"


Ag

[tu_holmes]

Yes, everyone should do good works but Christianity does not base eternal life on good works. 

No, it's even sadder... it bases eternal life on whether or not you believe that Jesus of Nazareth was the Messiah and died for your sins.

Basically saying that God and his Son Jesus are so shallow that who cares if you are a GREAT human being, if you don't acknowledge them, you're going to hell.

Yeah, that's what an omnipotent deity would do.

[Agnostic007]

No, it's even sadder... it bases eternal life on whether or not you believe that Jesus of Nazareth was the Messiah and died for your sins.

Basically saying that God and his Son Jesus are so shallow that who cares if you are a GREAT human being, if you don't acknowledge them, you're going to hell.

Yeah, that's what an omnipotent deity would do.

sooooo Westboro isn't all that far off...

[tu_holmes]

sooooo Westboro isn't all that far off...

Oh, they are off... fucking off their rockers insane.

[Agnostic007]

Oh, they are off... fucking off their rockers insane.

Any more insane that people who bring rain coats with them to the town square every Sunday to pray from rain in a drought? Quite common around here.. I figure at least a million Texans are praying for rain right now..have been for months...so there MUST be a million and one praying against it or we wouldn't be drying up here

Ag

[tu_holmes]

Any more insane that people who bring rain coats with them to the town square every Sunday to pray from rain in a drought? Quite common around here.. I figure at least a million Texans are praying for rain right now..have been for months...so there MUST be a million and one praying against it or we wouldn't be drying up here

Ag

More insane? Probably not... Right on the same level though.

[Agnostic007]

More insane? Probably not... Right on the same level though.

evenly insane... 

[Emmortal]

but... isn't the premise of Christianity itself pretty horrible? In a nutshell it says "Love me or burn in hell for eternity, your choice"... Yes, you can pretty it up, but the cornerstone of Christianity still remains "Either believe in me and worship me or spend eternity in hell"

Ag

I can't say for sure that is indeed God's plan for people who do not choose to follow him in their lives on earth.  I can only say, that in all his wisdom and love for us that he knows what he's doing and to assume that I can bring him down to my level of morality is absurd at the very least.

[tu_holmes]

I can't say for sure that is indeed God's plan for people who do not choose to follow him in their lives on earth.  I can only say, that in all his wisdom and love for us that he knows what he's doing and to assume that I can bring him down to my level of morality is absurd at the very least.

If we were made in his image, why would you think that doesn't equate to mental capacity?

[outby43]

Just watched Fall from Grace on Netflix.  Those people are nuts.  I cannot believe nobody has killed them yet.

[Emmortal]

If we were made in his image, why would you think that doesn't equate to mental capacity?

I don't know of any man or woman to ever have the mental capacity to create a universe as diverse and complex as ours.  My view of this world is extremely limited, it's very narrow, it's a fraction of a blink of an eye on the time line of things and to think that I have the mental capacity of God, who created the entire universe, would be quite egotistical.

[Butterbean]

but... isn't the premise of Christianity itself pretty horrible? In a nutshell it says "Love me or burn in hell for eternity, your choice"... Yes, you can pretty it up, but the cornerstone of Christianity still remains "Either believe in me and worship me or spend eternity in hell"


Ag

Your last sentence could be restated as believe in Christ as Savior or spend eternity separated from Him.  Isn't that your choice?   To not spend eternity with Him?  Would you rather not have the choice?

No, it's even sadder... it bases eternal life on whether or not you believe that Jesus of Nazareth was the Messiah and died for your sins.

Why does that seem sad to you

Basically saying that God and his Son Jesus are so shallow that who cares if you are a GREAT human being, if you don't acknowledge them, you're going to hell.

How many Great human beings do you know?  And if you do believe you know some, what makes them Great in your opinion?  If they are secretly stealing, beating their spouse or into child porn, would you still consider them Great?  Do you know what other people are doing/thinking/etc 24/7?

Yeah, that's what an omnipotent deity would do.

tu, can you give your view of what you would find acceptable for an omnipotent deity?

[loco]

but... isn't the premise of Christianity itself pretty horrible? In a nutshell it says "Love me or burn in hell for eternity, your choice"... Yes, you can pretty it up, but the cornerstone of Christianity still remains "Either believe in me and worship me or spend eternity in hell"


Ag

Agnostic007,  where did you get those quotes from?  I never pegged you for someone to spread slander and misinformation.

You are either mistaken or pompously lying.  I've told you many times that according to the Bible, people don't go to hell for rejecting Jesus Christ's gift of forgiveness and eternal life.  People go to hell to pay for their own many sins.  It doesn't matter how good a person is, they still have many sins.  Jesus Christ, by his own words, is the only way to forgiveness of sins and the only way to Heaven.