The War in Iraq and Afghanistan, was/is it worth it?

[bears]

I disagree with you that it is simply none of our business.....the U.S. has traditionally stood up for human rights and we must continue to do so......we can't stand idly by all the time and let people be slaughtered...we have to stand for something.....not doing anything is the easy and coward's way out

do you see why I say we should stay out of it?   

Essentially, there really is no way to truly help a third world country without being accused of exploiting said country.  Because in the end, those people who need help don't need help.  They need money.  It's a sad fact that most don't want to hear.  But in this world, money solves everything.   And that's what these people need.  A way for them to get some of that power away from the government and into their hands.  Money does that.  If they have money AND the freedom to spend that money as they wish, they have a say.  And when the people have a say, now they have a chance to change shit.

But the answer to that is to allow US corporations to work with them and give a boost to both of our economies.  Because at the end of the day it's not the US government or US corporations giving the aid.  It's people.  And those people need to be paid.  They have families and bills just like any of us.  So the best situation and the only realistic situation is that both sides get something out of the deal.  Thats the real fucking world and people need to shut the fuck up and deal with it. 

[andreisdaman]

do you see why I say we should stay out of it?   

Essentially, there really is no way to truly help a third world country without being accused of exploiting said country.  Because in the end, those people who need help don't need help.  They need money.  It's a sad fact that most don't want to hear.  But in this world, money solves everything.   And that's what these people need.  A way for them to get some of that power away from the government and into their hands.  Money does that.  If they have money AND the freedom to spend that money as they wish, they have a say.  And when the people have a say, now they have a chance to change shit.

But the answer to that is to allow US corporations to work with them and give a boost to both of our economies.  Because at the end of the day it's not the US government or US corporations giving the aid.  It's people.  And those people need to be paid.  They have families and bills just like any of us.  So the best situation and the only realistic situation is that both sides get something out of the deal.  Thats the real fucking world and people need to shut the fuck up and deal with it. 

I can live with this

[OzmO]

do you see why I say we should stay out of it?   

Essentially, there really is no way to truly help a third world country without being accused of exploiting said country.  Because in the end, those people who need help don't need help.  They need money.  It's a sad fact that most don't want to hear.  But in this world, money solves everything.   And that's what these people need.  A way for them to get some of that power away from the government and into their hands.  Money does that.  If they have money AND the freedom to spend that money as they wish, they have a say.  And when the people have a say, now they have a chance to change shit.

But the answer to that is to allow US corporations to work with them and give a boost to both of our economies.  Because at the end of the day it's not the US government or US corporations giving the aid.  It's people.  And those people need to be paid.  They have families and bills just like any of us.  So the best situation and the only realistic situation is that both sides get something out of the deal.  Thats the real fucking world and people need to shut the fuck up and deal with it. 

And this is what our sons should die thousands of miles away for?

[Agnostic007]

Not in my opinion

[Deicide]

And this is what our sons should die thousands of miles away for?

As long as they are not the sons of politicians.

[Dos Equis]

As long as they are not the sons of politicians.

There are plenty of sons of politicians who serve. 

[tu_holmes]

There are plenty of sons of politicians who serve. 

In locations that are not war zones... Yes they do.

[bears]

And this is what our sons should die thousands of miles away for?

yes this is what they're dying for.  but is it because they're not doing anything good?  or is it because of our liberal media choosing only to report when they do something bad?

[OzmO]

yes this is what they're dying for.  but is it because they're not doing anything good?  or is it because of our liberal media choosing only to report when they do something bad?

They are doing tons of good stuff.  I would expect nothing less.  But that's not the issue.  The issue is going to war unprovoked or irresponsibly.  OR....... As you said for those reasons, none of which are good enough for our sons to die for. 

[bears]

They are doing tons of good stuff.  I would expect nothing less.  But that's not the issue.  The issue is going to war unprovoked or irresponsibly.  OR....... As you said for those reasons, none of which are good enough for our sons to die for. 

here's my problem.  you show me a "just war" and i'll show you a whole lot of people who disagree.  there hasn't been a war in this country that hasn't been called a "war we shouldn't be involved in" by a whiole lot of people. 

to prove my point, start a thread listing the good things the US army and US corporations have done for impoverished 3rd world countries.  you'll see what i mean.

[OzmO]

here's my problem.  you show me a "just war" and i'll show you a whole lot of people who disagree.  there hasn't been a war in this country that hasn't been called a "war we shouldn't be involved in" by a whiole lot of people. 

to prove my point, start a thread listing the good things the US army and US corporations have done for impoverished 3rd world countries.  you'll see what i mean.

WW2

Afghanistan

Those are the first that come to mind.  I know, lol there people who were aginst WW2.

Feel free to start that thread if you want.  I am not sure at what you are getting at. 

The US army does all kind of good things.  I witnessed it myself in a 3rd world country.

[bears]

WW2

Afghanistan

Those are the first that come to mind.  I know, lol there people who were aginst WW2.

Feel free to start that thread if you want.  I am not sure at what you are getting at. 

The US army does all kind of good things.  I witnessed it myself in a 3rd world country.

there was plenty of opposition to WW 2.  do you think WW2 was about saving the jews?  seriously?  it was about free trade.  period.  and there were many factions opposed to it.  socialism was quite prevalent in that era and WW2 was the biggest step away from it.  you claiming that WW2 was unopposed is just plain wrong.

and there are plenty of war protestors of the new millenium that are opposed to being in Afghanistan as well.  So I don;t quite know what you're getting at.

[bears]

WW2

Afghanistan

Those are the first that come to mind.  I know, lol there people who were aginst WW2.

Feel free to start that thread if you want.  I am not sure at what you are getting at. 

The US army does all kind of good things.  I witnessed it myself in a 3rd world country.

and which 3rd world country?

[OzmO]

there was plenty of opposition to WW 2.  do you think WW2 was about saving the jews?  seriously?  it was about free trade.  period.  and there were many factions opposed to it.  socialism was quite prevalent in that era and WW2 was the biggest step away from it.  you claiming that WW2 was unopposed is just plain wrong.

and there are plenty of war protestors of the new millenium that are opposed to being in Afghanistan as well.  So I don;t quite know what you're getting at.

Where did say ww2 was unopposed?     Where did I say it was about the Jews 

Why would say or assume that and then use them as a debate point?

I was simply listing what I believe were just wars.  There is always opposition no matter how just a war is. 
Even in ww2.  But both t hose for the most had less opposition than Iraq, veitnam, Korea, ww1 etc.

Philippines in the 70's during the monsoon floods. 

[Freeborn126]

Not worth it at all.  Would have been worth it if we hadn't been lied to about WMD's in Iraq. 

Afghanistan is not worth it.  It brought the Soviets to there knees, will do the same to us. If there truly is an imminent terrorist threat in Afghanistan, the CIA, with their black budget, has more than enough resources to fight a covert war to take out al queda in that region.  Oh, wait, al queda is a CIA creation from back in the 80s.     

[Agnostic007]

I have to wonder, if America knew we would still be in Afghanistan and Iraq on the 10th anniversary of 9/11, would they have still supported it..

[OzmO]

Not at all, and of we hadn't gone into Iraq we would have finished with afganistan in 1-4 years.

[OzmO]

Not worth it at all.  Would have been worth it if we hadn't been lied to about WMD's in Iraq. 

Afghanistan is not worth it.  It brought the Soviets to there knees, will do the same to us. If there truly is an imminent terrorist threat in Afghanistan, the CIA, with their black budget, has more than enough resources to fight a covert war to take out al queda in that region.  Oh, wait, al queda is a CIA creation from back in the 80s.     

Even with WMDs in Iraq we didn't need to go in there.   I believe what we did with Afghanistan was appropriate but executed poorly.