l-arginine what to add to it

[jodster35]

what do you have to add to l-arginine to get it to work the best every ones says different things i take it with l-lysine is that good? and how much of each i got 900mg l-arginine from swanson cheap ? just let me know what is a good delivery system to add to it to work

[24KT]

what do you have to add to l-arginine to get it to work the best every ones says different things i take it with l-lysine is that good? and how much of each i got 900mg l-arginine from swanson cheap ? just let me know what is a good delivery system to add to it to work

Hi Jodster35
I hate to break it to you, but even if you got the l-arginine at a rock bottom price, you've more than likely wasted your money. The reason I say this is because the vast majority (99.9999%) of l-arginine formulations on the market do not work, or worse, can produce adverse effects such as, but not limited to reactivation of retroviruses, cold sores, severe free radical damage, lower sperm counts, infertility etc.,

In addition, lysine competes with l-arginine for the same isoform pathway, so you've in effect cancelled what ever benefit the arginine could do.

In addition, you cannot provide your own delivery system for it. It doesn't work like that. It takes very precise formulating, which requires the rider (delivery system) to bond with the arginine molecule, thereby allowing the arginine to take the correct isoform pathway ...a process which up til recently had eluded formulators. The mechanism for a safe, effective, low glycemic delivery system for l-arginine was discovered by Dr Ann deWees Allen, the world's foremost authority on arginine, and is contained exclusively in her l-arginine formulation sold under the trade name ProArgi-9

ProArgi-9 is the world's ONLY patented, proven safe & effective l-arginine formulation legally able to make specific claims about it's ability to build muscle & burn fat among other things. By law, no other l-arginine formulation can make these claims.

The research and the science behind this particular product ProArgi-9, is so sound, it was validated by the 1998 Nobel Prize in medicine, and has not only impressed, but prompted Dr Randall Maxey, President of the National Medical Association, and Dr Clare Francomano, the top geneticist in the USA from the National Institute of Health to get behind this product and spread information about it to the public.

It's also the world's first great tasting arginine product available in 2 flavors ( Pina Colada or Mixed Berry)

For more information about ProArgi-9, please visit http://www.jaguarenterprises.net/products/ProArgi9_info.htm or feel free to call toll free (800) 756-3819 and enter the reference # 402639#

For more information about ProArgi-9's developer, visit: http://www.jaguarenterprises.org/DrAllen.htm

If you have any questions about l-arginine or about ProArgi-9 specifically, feel free to PM me.

Hope That Helps,

[250Ben250]

All that and only $91 per bottle!!! 

Jodster - Free form Arginine/Orthinine products work just fine, you will get minimally more absorption from Arginine AKG, Aginine Esters, etc.  Regular arginine works fine for most people, I've had great results with the Vitamin Shoppe brand Arg./Orth. stack for $14 a bottle, results comparable to Dymatize Xpand. Try it and see what works for you.

[24KT]

All that and only $91 per bottle!!! 

Actually that's per cannister at full retail, ...I'm sure he or anyone else would be able to find it for less.

I guess it boils down to where one places their priorities. I believe it's a matter of pay now, or pay later. The price will eventually be paid, ...it's simply a matter of the currency... will it be cash now, or health later? Each consumer has to make that decision for themselves. If you're willing to waste your money and risk your health, by all means get the cheap stuff. But it's a little out of line to imply your lack of concern for your own health should be an attitude shared by all. Some simply don't share it, ...and love themselves enough to ensure that what they consume isn't going to harm them. For those who feel that way, I'm simply letting them know about something that's out there, that has been proven safe & effective. This message isn't intended for those who don't respect their bodies enough to safeguard themselves. They should feel free to ignore it.

Hope That Clarifies,

[250Ben250]

Actually it doesn't. How am I "risking my health", by taking a non-jaguar brand arginine supplement?

Please tell me you're not resorting to scare tactics to sell your supps now?  The only side effect that's worth a damn mentioning is free radical production - which DOESN'T happen unless you're pushing the 10+ grms a day limit. Not to mention most people here take more than adequate anti-oxidant supps. Please post an independent peer reviewed study that shows arginine suppl. can result in low sperm count and infertility. Seriously, please do. I'm not entirely trying to discredit you, I'll look at anyone's evidence and make a decision for myself. At this point you've posted a lot of theoretical crap and synergy brand-name dropping, and everything else I've read about free form arginine (ie: the Now brand/Vitamin Shoppe Brand, etc) shows that in its simplist form its just fine to use.

[phil444]

Are there not rules against shamelessly plugging your own product on this forum?

Anyway, I use the 1500mg Arginine tabs from GNC. 4 of them before a workout with a spoon of creatine and some fruit juice seems to work very well for me. And they only cost about $10-15 a bottle.

[24KT]

Actually it doesn't. How am I "risking my health", by taking a non-jaguar brand arginine supplement?

Hi 250Ben250,

I truly wish it was a Jaguar brand supplement. It is a Synergy brand supplement licensed exclusively for sale and/or distribution through independant distributors of Synergy Worldwide, a wholely owned autonomous subsidiary of Natures Sunshine -- a 33 year old publicly traded Nasdaq company (stock symbol NATR) which currently does business in over 70 international markets around the world. I am both a passionate consumer of, as well as advocate for the entire Synergy Worldwide lineup of products, from their personal care products to their nutritional supplements. When it comes to quality & efficacy, this company more than exceeded my expectations, and this in turn lead to my becoming a licensed distributor of the Synergy Worldwide product line. It made good sense to me to get paid for recommending products I would recommend for free. I believe there are two types of people in this world. Those who pay to use the products and services they love, ...and those who get paid to use the products and services they love. I choose to be the latter.

Please tell me you're not resorting to scare tactics to sell your supps now? 

I am NOT resorting to scare tactics to sell supps. I am telling the truth.
There have been many, and there will continue to be many who have been suspicious about what they perceived, ...and reasonably so, as a conflict of interest, ...however, those who have really wanted to get to the truth, have and will continue to be encouraged to do a little research on their own, to verify that what I've said was indeed the truth. And they have been grateful to me for opening their eyes.

I'm not saying everyone should consume the l-arginine formulation that I make available. If they do... WONDERFUL! I'd be very delighted. What I'm saying, is that if[/b] one is going to use an l-arginine formulation, ...it really should be the ProArgi-9 brand I make available. If they're not going to use the ProArgi-9 brand, ...they should not be using any[/b] other brand at all.

The only side effect that's worth a damn mentioning is free radical production - which DOESN'T happen unless you're pushing the 10+ grms a day limit. Not to mention most people here take more than adequate anti-oxidant supps.

That's not entirely accurate, but we do agree that yes, increased free radical production is something we definitely see in other arginine formulations, and is something we want to avoid, however, it is NOT the only adverse effect of these other arginine formulations. It is however, what I believe to be the most dangerous adverse effect. Since, you have singled out free radical activity, that is the one I will address.

Simply living our lives, breathing, metabolizing our food etc., produces free radicals. We can't avoid that. It is a natural though unhealthy byproduct of life. What we need to avoid is unecessarily increasing the amount of free radical production in our bodies, ...and other arginine formulations do just that. In addition to the increase in free radical activity, we see an increased replication, duplication and reactivation of various retro-viruses, like herpes simplex and HIV. The human body quite frequently harbours many viruses that lie dormant, and don't affect us adversely, however, when you feed these dormant retroviruses an improperly formulated l-arginine that has not been designed to engineer out the harmful effects, the retroviruses duplicate and multiply rapidly, overwhelming the body's ability to suppress them. It is when our immune systems are unable to successfully attack and suppress these viruses and/or multitude of mutated cancerous cells that develop within our bodies daily, that they take hold in the body, leading to the various disease states they cause. Now, couple these increases in retroviral counts, with an increasingly suppressed immune system, due to increased free radical activity, and mutated cancerous cells, and you're in for a world of hurt. The process may not readily reveal itself to you immediately, (within 24 hrs) ...but it does eventually reveal itself, ...by which time, ...it's too late. I'm not trying to sound like an alarmist, ...however, the facts are very alarming, for those willing to examine them.  For those who don't know what a free radical is, it is a toxic molecule produced during metabolic activity that alters your DNA and your cell membrane. It also plays a major role in the rate at which your body ages. Free radicals are also a major contributory factor in the development of diseases, as well as the rates at which those diseases progress. Free radicals also lessen your life span, ...as well as the quality of that life span. The birth of just one single free radical in your body will create 3,000 more.[/b] And those 3,000 will in turn create 9,000,000 more, ...and so on, and so on etc., Now, with this activity happening 10,000 times a day in each cell, extrapolate those numbers out... you do the math, and you will come to a very obvious conclusion. Common sense should tell us, free radicals are not something we want, and taking products that increase free radical activity should be avoided at all costs. It is now believed that free radical activity is the cause of most arteriosclerosis and cancers, and it is implicated in Multiple Sclerosis, ALS, Parkinson's Disease, Alzheimers etc. Now some may counter with, I take an anti-oxidant for that, ...but do people really know what effect their particular anti-oxidant has? I'd be willing to bet that most don't. In fact, I believe most people don't know the type of anti-oxidant they're taking, ...just that it's an anti-oxidant, and it's suppose to be good for you. Do they know what the ORAC rating is, and are they using simply one anti-oxidant? But now I'm veering off into another topic, so I won't go down this path, I'll save it for another thread.

When we use an arginine product that has not been formulated to engineer out all the negative adverse effects of oral ingestion of arginine, we are going to get a product that will NOT work to produce the results we're looking for, or that arginine is capable of producing, and we will have wasted our money, ...no matter how inexpensively we were able to acquire that product. And that's the best case scenario. A more typical result however, is that in addition to wasting our money, and not achieving the optimal results we could have expected from our workout efforts, we are now increasing our body's production, and rate of replication of free radicals, ...resulting in us having to purchase additional products to deal with this increased free radical activity. It is a vicious insidious cycle, a symbiotic relationship, not unlike the one that now exists between our trillion dollar food manufacturing & trillion dollar "so called" healthcare industries. I say "so called" because I believe what we term as the healthcare industry is in fact the disease care industry. We eat processed foods, void of proper nutrients, not giving our bodies the proper quality & quantity of nutritive components they need to operate in an optimal state of wellness, which cumulatively results in damage to our DNA, cells, etc., (through the metabolic process), and those damaged cells and DNA go on to replicate themselves. It's like Xeroxing a document on a poor quality copier, and going on to continually copy those already poor quality copies, on that same faulty Xerox machine. Over a period of time, you will not be able to read the document. And in our bodies, we succumb to chronic degenerative diseases, which then requires care, surgery, medication, radiation, chemotherapy etc. Enter the healthcare disease care industry. In many cases, the side effects of these treatments & medications are horrendous and severely damaging to our health, both short term & long term. The philosophy I live by is simply to support my body with foods and supplements, which give my body the components it needs, both in quality & quantity, to develop and maintain a dynamic robust optimal state of health & wellness. When you are in a state of wellness, with all your systems functioning the way they were designed to, disease cannot take hold in the body. And as body builders, you will see far greater increases in strength, muscle mass, etc., A state of wellness supports the hard work you put in in the gym. Taking inferior or substandard products works against you, and is counterproductive to your efforts. Why would someone want to be fighting themselves every step of the way?

Why take something whose results will not only leave you wanting, but that also causes free radicals ...requiring one to purchase and take additional products in order to counter those free radicals (assuming the anti-oxidant product(s) one consumes are effective) ...when you can use a product, that not only does NOT produce free radicals, but is also an antioxidant that will effectively address the free radicals you already have? Doesn't that make a whole lot more sense to you? It does to me.

We know that programmed into our DNA, the human being is capable of a 120 - 150 year lifespan. Most people don't make it that far, ...infact, we are seeing horrific cases of degenerative states in people's health who are only 1/2 that. Go look in any senior's care facility. It will break your heart. Old people sitting around with aches, pains, and just waiting to die with no quality to their life. It doesn't have to be that way. While I don't have the exact numbers for body builders, I've got to believe it's even worse.

Historically, the sport of bodybuilding has been one rife with abuse. Abuse of the body, using dangerous substances in order to achieve big muscles. Most frequently it also results in shortened life spans and a host of health challenges short term and long term, not to mention demoralizingly embarrasing changes, ...shrinkage of anatomical parts on a man, ...increased growth of other anatomical parts on a woman. Women morphing into men, ...and men morphing into women.  ...boobies on a man? Come on! That's just one step more useful that tits on a bull. I say one step more useful, because the only purpose it can serve is to provide the rest of the world with a source of humour, or a constant supply of patients for plastic surgeons. We do love laughing at boobies on a man, ...but even sadder than manboobs, or coginas as Hedgehog loves to call them (it took me a while to figure that one out) is the fact that the bodybuilding community accepts harmful health effects as par for the course. Guys, ...it doesn't have to be like that.

The sport of body building has always been one where the individual pursuing it, put themselves on a path of self-induced destruction. But just because that the way it's always been, ...doesn't mean that's the way it always has to be. I am telling you, it doesn't have to be like that. We can still build our muscles, and our strength, without destroying our health and cutting short our lifespans in the process. I recently had the pleasure of meeting a 93 year old Japanese man who was stronger, more limber, flexible and healthier than most 20 year olds. When we're young, we have a tendency to see ourselves as indestructible, ...and not without good reason. The abuses many of us have put our bodies through can lull us into a false sense of indestructibility, however, if you've ever lost your health, ...even if only temporarily, you begin to appreciate it, value it, and recognize the rest of your life can be an awfully long, drawn out and painful experience without it.

One of my many goals in life is to die young, ...as late as possible. When I go, I plan to leave behind a very pretty corpse, ...both on the outside, and on the inside. I love myself enough to ensure that the products I use will be both efficacious AND safe, and will not be harmful to my health. I endeavor to treat my body like the temple that it is, ...so that it can be worshipped accordingly (by the right people) <wink>, but most importantly, will serve me well for many years to come.

Please post an independent peer reviewed study that shows arginine suppl. can result in low sperm count and infertility. Seriously, please do. I'm not entirely trying to discredit you, I'll look at anyone's evidence and make a decision for myself.

I understand, ...you're simply skeptical, and that's perfectly OK. A healthy skepticism can be useful as it promotes the critical thinking necessary to weed through bogus information. "I'll look at anyone's evidence and make a decision for myself." That little phrase there is music to my ears. That is the number one reason, I continue to post l-arginine information in this forum, and continue to educate people on ProArgi-9. I don't need it. I already know what I have. Contrary to what some may think, ...my purpose is not to sell you ProArgi-9. My purpose is to provide people with enough information to enable them to make an informed & empowered decision as to whether ProArgi-9 is right for them. And to enlighten them somewhat about the products they are currently taking. When I see people disparaging the ProArgi-9 product, or recommending a different arginine product over ProArgi-9, that tells me they don't know enough about ProArgi-9. It tells me they've also never used it.  They may have heard about it, but they do not truly know enough about ProArgi-9, because whether or not they decide it is a product for them, ...if they truly knew about ProArgi-9, there is no way on the face of the earth that they could possibly disparage it, or discourage others from using it. It couldn't happen, unless they were unscrupulous trolls who didn't care about what they put out there in the forum, and/or greedy purveyors of a product attempting to compete with ProArgi-9. I don't believe either is the case with you.

Aside from the free radical activity which we already agree upon, the adverse effects of an improperly formulated arginine product include (but are not limited to):

• incidents of mouth & genital sores
• lower sperm counts
• infertility
• blunted growth hormone response, etc., etc.

For those willing to trade off their health in favour of bigger muscles, that last bullet point should be a big one. Because not only are they destroying their health in the long run, they're also mitigating the very effect they endeavored to achieve by taking the product to begin with... especially in the case of body builders. How successful will a bodybuilder be, if his/her body won't/can't produce growth hormone?  Hmmmm...

As for those studies, there are numerous studies out there. I recently became acquainted with 7 more, and as time permits I will gather a few and post them to this thread.

At this point you've posted a lot of theoretical crap and synergy brand-name dropping, and everything else I've read about free form arginine (ie: the Now brand/Vitamin Shoppe Brand, etc) shows that in its simplist form its just fine to use.

ouch, ...no need to be rude or nasty.  It's not theoretical crap. They are facts. Facts that were proven as a result of over 20 years of research, supported by thousands of clinical trials, and over 750,000 pages of documentation provided to the US federal government. In order for ProArgi-9 to be approved to make certain claims, it had to be proven to the US Food & Drug Administration, as well as the United States Federal Trade Commission, that this product, did exactly what it claims to do. No one else has been able to prove their products even work, let alone are safe and without the harmful effects we know are associated with oral ingestion of l-arginine, ...and as such cannot make these claims. If they do, ...they are doing something illegal. The fact that Dr Clair Francomano, one of the top geneticists from the National Institutes of Health (NIH), and the National Institute on Aging (NIA), ... a scientist knowledgeable enough to be part of the team that mapped the human genome stands behind this product, it's advanced technology, and it's manufacturer should be proof enough for you, ...but since it's not, ...I'll see what I can do about rounding up a few of those studies for ya. It may not happen overnight tho. In the last 15 days, I've had 16 new people join me in my business (I haven't looked at the numbers for yesterday or today yet) ...and I need to help them get started correctly during their first 30, 60 and 90 days in the business. But I will post those studies ASAP. If you'd like to shoot me a PM, I'll respond back with my proper email address, so you can shoot me a reminder if getting the studies posted slips my mind and/or falls through the cracks. Contrary to what I like to believe, and what I prefer others to believe, I'm not perfect, ...but shhhh, ...don't tell anyone. 

Thanks for a civil discussion.

[250Ben250]

Well if anything I guess that book you just wrote is at leat something to get along with my $91 arginine 

For those who don't know what a free radical is, it is a toxic molecule produced during metabolic activity that alters your DNA and your cell membrane. It also plays a major role in the rate at which your body ages.

Free radicals are produced from birth, they're simply a by-poduct of almost every internal system a human has. Likewise the body has just as many defenses against them. For God's sake, every time you breath the process in which your body utilizes oxygen produces free radicals. This is a natural process - do not make a leap from this to implying a cause for cancer.

Well while your "researching" your studies, feel free to take a look at these fee form arginine studies--

FYI, One take- away (among others) from these - "Subsequent studies have shown that L-arginine improves sperm count and motility. A recent small study credited L-arginine with producing pregnancies, but larger clinical trials are needed to confirm the efficacy seen in the early work. "

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Andres A, Morales JM, Praga M, et al. L-arginine reverses the antinatriuretic effect of cyclosporin in renal transplant patients. Nephrol Dial Transplant. 1997; 12:1437-1440.

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Bode-Boger SM, Boger RH, Galland A, et al. L-arginine-induced vasodilation in healthy humans: pharmacokinetic-pharmacodynamic relationship. Br J Clin Pharmacol. 1998; 46:489-497.

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Cartledge JJ, Davies A-M, Eardley I. A randomized double-blind placebo-controlled crossover trial of the efficacy of L-arginine in the treatment of interstitial cystitis. BJU Int. 2000; 85:421-426.

Chan JS, Boger RH, Bode-Boger SM. Et al. Asymmetric dimethylarginine increases mononuclear cell adhesiveness in hypercholesterolemic humans. Arterioscler Thromb Vasc Biol. 2000; 20:1040-1046.

Chen J, Wollman Y, Chernichovsky T, et al. Effect of oral administration of high-dose nitric oxide donor L-arginine in men with organic erectile dysfunction: results of a double-blind, randomized, placebo-controlled study. BJU Int. 1999; 83:269-273.

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Griffith RS, DeLong DC, Nelson JD. Relation of arginine-lysine antagonism to herpes simplex growth in tissue culture. Chemotherapy. 1981; 27:209-213.

Hambrecht R, Hilbrich L, Erbs S, et al. Correction of endothelial dysfunction in chronic heart failure: additional effects of exercise training and oral L-arginine supplementation. J Am Coll Cardiol. 2000; 35:701-713.

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Isidori A, Lo Monaco A, Cappa M. A study of growth hormone release in man after oral administration of amino acids. Current Med Res Opinion. 1981; 7:475-481.

Kapuler AM, Gurusiddiah S. The amino acids precursory to proteins are primary human food: proline, glutamine, and arginine found free in the juices of common vegetables and herbs. J Med Food. 1998; 1:97-115.

Korting GE, Smith SD, Wheeler MA, et al. A randomized double-blind trial of oral L-arginine for treatment of interstitial cystitis. J Urol. 1999; 161:558-565.

Lerman A, Burnett JC Jr, Higano ST, et al. Long-term L-arginine supplementation improves small-vessel coronary endothelial function in humans. Circulation. 1998; 97:2123-2128.

Loukides S, Kharitonov S, Wodehouse T, et al. Effect of arginine on mucocilliary function in primary ciliary dyskinesia. Lancet. 1998; 352:371-372.

Lubec B, Hayn M, Kitzmü ller E, et al. L-arginine reduces lipid peroxidation in patients with diabetes mellitus. Free Rad Biol Med. 1997; 22:355-357.

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[24KT]

Well if anything I guess that book you just wrote is at leat something to get along with my $91 arginine 

ROTFLOL!  Well,  I have always aimed to provide people with excellent value for their money 

Free radicals are produced from birth, they're simply a by-poduct of almost every internal system a human has. Likewise the body has just as many defenses against them. For God's sake, every time you breath the process in which your body utilizes oxygen produces free radicals. This is a natural process - do not make a leap from this to implying a cause for cancer.

That's what I said... it's part of the metabolic process, ...and simply the mere act of breathing results in the production of free radicals -- they are a natural tho unhealthy byproduct of life. Please re-read what I wrote.

Well while your "researching" your studies, feel free to take a look at these fee form arginine studies--

FYI, One take- away (among others) from these - "Subsequent studies have shown that L-arginine improves sperm count and motility. A recent small study credited L-arginine with producing pregnancies, but larger clinical trials are needed to confirm the efficacy seen in the early work. "

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[studies snipped to save space]

250 Ben 250    I could sooooo give you a big juicy wet sloppy kiss right now! hehe

I just love a man who does his homework before shooting off his mouth!!!

L-arginine DOES[/b] infact increase fertility and sperm motility, ...however, it ALSO[/b] can cause lower sperm counts and infertility depending on the metabolic pathway[/b] it uses.  As has been stated numerous times, l-arginine is a double edged sword that can be extremely beneficial in the body or extremely destructive in the body.

Our arginine uses the safe pathway... the homodymers (sp?), and is the only arginine capable of doing so because of the oranic rider used. It's a 3 week 32 step process to condense down and extract the glycosides from organic fruits, and it is these gylcosides that are then bound to the arginine molecule, to provide safe  transport into the body. It is a proprietary process developed by Dr Allen. Ironically enough, and I suppose fittingly so, ...it was a process she learned many years ago when as a young college student on scholarship, she was working on a study to set safety guidelines on PCBS. She had to condense and extract PCBS in the laboratory. After her work, the Environmental Protection Agency declared PCBs were dangerous cancer causing substances and were banned.

Well, Dr. Allen had been breathing and condensing PCBs for 2 and half years. Shortly thereafter, her dream of representing the USA as an Olympic marathon runner were eliminated when she became the youngest person ever to be diagnosed with stomache and esophogeal cancer, ...a result of breathing PCBs for 2 years.
Check out her remarkable cancer survival story[/b][/color]. <----- clickable link

In my business, because of the structure of our compensation plan, people always want me to continually build below them, and devote my attention to their business' growth. I always try to match people's efforts 100%, ...but only if they demonstrate to me that they are worthy. Even though you're not in my business, ...the fact that you went out and researched l-arginine studies to understand this, rather than just shoot off your mouth demanding that I do all the work that you should be doing (as far too many are prone to do) tells me you are definitely worthy. I will make the extra effort to get those studies to you.

And thanks again for doing something other than simply shoot your mouth off. 

With Respect,

[250Ben250]

L-arginine DOES infact increase fertility and sperm motility, ...however, it ALSO can cause lower sperm counts and infertility depending on the metabolic pathway it uses.  As has been stated numerous times, l-arginine is a double edged sword that can be extremely beneficial in the body or extremely destructive in the body.

What metabolic pathway? The process in which the body uses the supplement is essentially the same every time. The metabolic pathway in which Arginine is broken down directly resulted in increase fertility and sperm motility, as demonstrated by this study. If you seem to think otherwise please show me an independent peer reviewed study that demonstrates this.

Check out her remarkable cancer survival story. <----- clickable link

That's great, the only reference in there is to "L-arginine":

(from the article) "Dr. Pauling recommended a protocol of antioxidants, vitamin C, and amino acids (using L-arginine as the main amino acid)"

She used an amino acid combination. Period. Either your marketing people need to re-write that for product placement or the woman in the article was given free-form arginine, the same form used in the studies I cited above. I see no reference to super-duper glycocide arginine in the article at all. Furthermore - you even said so yourself - she developed this organic process after dealing with her recovery. Wonderful, if Arginine even played a part in her recovery, it was the free-form kind she was given in the hospital, not the Pro-Argi you're trying to sell.

Flatery gets you no where. I respect the fact you're trying to take the time to validate your claims, but so far you haven't offered anything specific to support your product. Show me a study that demonstrates the superiority of using glycosides as a "carrier molecule" specific to arginine vs. regular free form L-arginine.   

[Havenbull]

HEY GUYS, I just saw this thread.  Mind if I cut in?

[JamieX4200]

what exactly does this stuff do for you guys...?

[250Ben250]

HEY GUYS, I just saw this thread.  Mind if I cut in?

But of course, there's plenty of Jaguar pwning to go around. 

JamieX - the verdict's still out for me, but my purpose here is just to show people you don't have to spend @ssloads of $$$ on fancy NO/arginine supps, the regular stuff works just fine. I've been on it for @ 2 weeks now. So far I notice slightly more strength when taken with creatine, than taking creatine on its own in previous trials (ie, compared to the first two weeks of a creatine-only phase).

[JamieX4200]

thanks 

[24KT]

What metabolic pathway? The process in which the body uses the supplement is essentially the same every time. The metabolic pathway in which Arginine is broken down directly resulted in increase fertility and sperm motility, as demonstrated by this study. If you seem to think otherwise please show me an independent peer reviewed study that demonstrates this.

Not completely and entirely accurate. Arginine is a double-edged sword. Whether Nitric Oxide functions as either a neuroprotectant or a neurotoxin is determined by the NOS isoform. The isoforms synthesize Nitric Oxide in the body from l-arginine, and it is typically synthesized in the endothelial membrane by eNOS, however, NO can also be synthesized by iNOS. Arginine, when consumed with foods or other proteins will act like a protein and be metabolized like one. When separated from it's brother & sister amino acids however, is blind, and does not know where to go in the body. That's where we see the trouble. When the arginine molecule is however bonded to it's organic rider (delivery system) it will be transported to exactly where we want it to go.

Allow me to paint a word picture if I may. In the most simplest analogy I can give, it is like mailing a letter. You can write a letter, however, if you haven't placed that letter in a properly addressed envelope, bearing sufficient postage, then securely placed that envelope in the mailbox for pickup by the postal service, ...your letter is not going to arrive at it's destination. You can try tossing it into the wind by itself, no protection from the elements, no envelope, no postage, no mailbox etc., ...however what do you think it's chances of arriving on the other side of town, let alone the other side of the country, or even the planet are? And if by some wild chance of fate, it is picked up by a carrier pigeon, and flown across the Atlantic, through wind, rain, salt, sleet etc., what are the chances of it remaining in one piece, let alone remaining legible? Dr Allen has developed the envelope, knows how to address it, and she's the only one who has stamps. BTW - I haven't forgotten those studies, ...there's just far too many of them for me to wade through at the moment, ...but I will get them to you.

That's great, the only reference in there is to "L-arginine":

(from the article) "Dr. Pauling recommended a protocol of antioxidants, vitamin C, and amino acids (using L-arginine as the main amino acid)"

She used an amino acid combination. Period. Either your marketing people need to re-write that for product placement or the woman in the article was given free-form arginine, the same form used in the studies I cited above. I see no reference to super-duper glycocide arginine in the article at all. Furthermore - you even said so yourself - she developed this organic process after dealing with her recovery. Wonderful, if Arginine even played a part in her recovery, it was the free-form kind she was given in the hospital, not the Pro-Argi you're trying to sell.

Yes, the protocol was antioxidants, vitamin C, and amino acids using l-arginine as the main amino acid, just like it states.

This formulation was administered to her through her IV drip. Receiving something intravenously often results in different effect(s) and/or response rates than through oral ingestion.

Vitamin C, in addition to being a vitamin, is also classed as one of the super anti-oxidants, along with Vitamins A, & E, as well as the mineral selenium and other substances. One of the best things anti oxidants do is to enormously accelerate the immune response in the body, and it is immunity that determines whether infections will sweep through and kill you or just be a minor ailment for a day. The massive doses of anti-oxidants were necessary to evoke an immune response, and to try to counter the adverse effects of free radicals, which in her already immune suppressed state were running rampant throughout her body.

Knowing these adverse effects, Dr Allen set about to develop an arginine product that engineered out these effects. The process she used to extract the glycosides from organic fruit for the rider was one already known to her. It was the same process she used to extract & condense PCB samples in the lab, while working for the EPA, the work that resulted in her getting cancer to begin with.

Had she not been a chemist, and had she not had knowledge & credentials enough to even get her through Linus Pauling's door, I would hazard to guess she would not be alive today. After surgery, she had 14 other metastatic sites and in her owns words "a liver tumour the size of Kansas", that they simply couldn't get to, and without her stomach, she only had the ability to consume a teaspoon of liquid once an hour. A teaspoon of liquid once an hour isn't enough to nourish you, let alone keep you alive, much less battle a scourge taking place within your body.

What was provided to her in the hospital, was Linus Pauling's protocol. Please understand, there can be a world of difference between a substance administered intravenously in a world-renowned teaching hospital environment from a 2 time Nobel prize winner, ...and what's thrown together in a pill or capsule by some marketing company that doesn't know what they're doing. Understand too, that Dr Allen was already a chemist when she got sick. She understood what was taking place, and the doctors had no answers for her... she was forced to find her own, and along with the help of Dr Linus Pauling, she did. The only reason they allowed this (then experimental) treatment, was because they had nothing for her. All of their standard treatment methodologies were contraindicated in her case, and all they could do for her was inject her with morphine and wait for her to die. So the doctors agreed to let her do her own thing by following the Pauling protocol, while they monitored what if any progress she showed. Well she showed a heck of alot of progress.

Arginine did play a significant role in her recovery. This was the set of circumstances that started the mission that became her life's work. She studied and researched and perfected her formula over the years, discovering more & more about arginine. She is 20 years ahead of everyone else, and has discovered answers to questions that most new researchers have not yet even learned to ask. The ProArgi-9 we see today is not the same arginine she used in the hospital. It has been tweaked and improved upon. For one thing, it's not taken intravenously. The base formulation for which she received the patent is the same, however the product has been perfected, and made more user-friendly if you will. Can you picture people walking around with an IV drip hanging out of their bodies? Neither could she. She has also added a unique flavour system that enables you to drink it and not gag. (although in all honesty, ...I just tried the new Berry flavour... let's just say, Pina Colada is the way to go IMO, but that's my personal taste preference, ...which I'm confident will be shared by others) 

Flatery gets you no where. I respect the fact you're trying to take the time to validate your claims, but so far you haven't offered anything specific to support your product. Show me a study that demonstrates the superiority of using glycosides as a "carrier molecule" specific to arginine vs. regular free form L-arginine.   

Not trying to flatter you, just to let you know I have far more respect for your approach to rebut comments you either disbelive or are suspicious of, than the tactics & reasoning previously employed by others. Even though we disagree, you're at least looking into it. And as previously stated, studies will follow as time permits. I started a ball rolling in September, and it has snowballed out of control faster than I expected, and caught me off guard. Coupled with a few unexpected occurances, I've got my hands more than full right now. I willl get those studies to you as soon as possible.

HEY GUYS, I just saw this thread.  Mind if I cut in?

As a matter of fact I do. This is starting out to be a somewhat civil and informative discussion, ...and lets just say I know the way you can be.

what exactly does this stuff do for you guys...?

Jamie,

l-arginine provides tremendous support to the body in many ways. It is one of the amino acids found in most proteins, cheeses, eggs, nuts and foods of that nature. However when separated out from it's brother and sister amino acids, l-arginine responds very differently. In 1998 the Nobel Prize in Medicine was awarded to scientists for discovering information about aspects of Nitric Oxide. They also discovered irrefuteably that the l-arginine molecule is the body's chief source of Nitric oxide. Infact, without l-arginine & nitric oxide, human life would be impossible. Subsequently l-arginine was discovered to be a trigger molecule in regulating & supporting many bodily systems. With such promise, it's potential for application in many areas of medicine and or treatment modalities, has quickly caused it to become referred to as "The Miracle Molecule", "The Most Potent Nutriceutical Discovery of the Century", and "The Magic Bullet for the cardiovascular system".  As a result of the 1998 nobel prize and the many studies that followed, pharmaceutical companies, nutraceutical companies, sports supplement companies etc., have rushed to get their own versions of an l-arginine product onto the market. Most have only been studying and or formulating arginine products within the couple of years since the nobel prize was awarded. There has however been someone, who has been studying, researching and working with l-arginine for the past 20 years. Her name is Dr. Ann deWees Allen[/b][/color], (<---clickable link) Dr Allen is considered the world's foremost authority on l-arginine, and she holds a patent on the only l-arginine product that has been clinically proven safe & effective. It is called ProArgi-9, and it is the only l-arginine product which has been approved by the US federal government's FDA & FTC to make 15 specific health claims. No other arginine product is allowed to make those claims, under penalty of law. You may click through to this link, to read the 15 claims[/b][/color] both the FDA & FTC have approved. As for the benefits I experience with ProArgi9, I noticed many. Some I don't care to share publicly, and others I really can't in all honesty attribute exclusively to Proargi-9. I have no doubt ProArgi-9 contributed, however, I am also using other Synergy Worldwide products as well. And improvements in my hair & skin, can just as easily be credited to the skin care & hair care product lines and the new technologies incorporated into those, which are truly exceptional. What I can isolate and attribute solely to ProArgi-9 was significant improvements in my stamina & endurance, as well as my recovery time from exercise when I resumed working out. I experienced increases in my muscle mass when I first started taking it, and this was without any accompanying exercise. I noticed muscles getting stronger, and firmer, shedding of body fat (not that I had much) my abs became more cut & defined again without exercise. I also experienced an overall feeling of wellbeing, a more restful sleep, a requirement for less sleep, and both my libido and responsiveness shot through the roof. Of greatest significance to me is that certain regular processes in my body are responding the way they did in 1993. There were certain changes I noticed that started taking place in mid 1995, and have consistently been moving in a particular direction. Since taking ProArgi-9, the clock has been turned back to 1993 levels.

Jamie, Dr Allen chose to grant worldwide exclusive marketing rights for her product to a Utah based nutraceutical company called Synergy Worldwide, a wholely owned autonomous subsidiary of a 33 year old publicly traded Nasdaq company called Nature's Sunshine. Nature's Sunshine (stock symbol NATR) does business in over 70 international markets around the world. They have a 5 A1 Dun & Bradstreet rating, the highest rating a company can achieve, hundreds of millions of dollars in cash & cash assets, they employ a full time R & D staff of scientists, chemists, researchers & Ph. D's to develop safe & efficacious nutritional supplements. They have been awarded manufacturer of the year a few times by Nutrition Outlook, and consistently are named on the list of most ethical corporations in the world by Business Ethics Magazine. They have an impeccable reputation around the world, and are known as the premier designers, developers and manufacturers of nutraceutical and herbal supplements. They are known for the quality, purity, and potency of the products they produce. Both Nature's Sunshine & Synergy Worldwide utilize a business model long proven to be the most effective, and efficient way to distribute new products into the market place. That business model is called "Network Marketing". Frequently misunderstood, network marketing is often held in contempt by those who don't fully understand it, or understand that it truly is the most effective barometer for measuring products that do what they claim to do. For an understanding of how the model functions, consider listening to the generic audio found on this page Brilliant Compensation[/b][/color], You can also click to read excerpts from within a book authored on the subject by a Harvard Educated Ph. D who teaches the business model at the university level.   

I happen to be a licensed distributor of Synergy Worldwide products, and as such, my comments about the validity of the ProArgi-9 product have been called into question. Also objectionable for some readers in here is the investment required to acquire a can of it, ...relative to the cost of other l-arginine's on the market. They fail to take into account, those other l-arginine's on the market, aren't involved in a 3 week 32 step process, just to extract the raw materials to form the rider which must then be bound to the arginine molecule. It's not a cheap product to manufacture, and that is reflected in the investment to acquire it.

The ongoing debate at the moment is whether ProArgi-9 truly is the only safe arginine product, or whether one can get the same effects of ProArgi-9 with a cheaper product. My position is no, however due to my affiliation with the ProArgi-9 product, I am disbelieved. It certainly doesn't help when manufacturers are rushing cheaper, untested, arginine products onto the shelves in order to profit from it. The preponderance of substandard products, and various supp manufacturers willing to market untested, & unproven substances  to a community that already has a long established precedence for being willing to put their health at long term risk in exchange for a chance at short term glory, makes the task of making people aware of the dangers a challenging one.

But of course, there's plenty of Jaguar pwning to go around. 

If you truly desire to have an intelligent & civil discussion, you might want to rethink that last statement.
I'm not looking to "own anyone" or be owned by anyone, ...simply to disseminate empowering and potentially health saving information to those receptive to it. If you're looking to turn this into a game, no thanks. I have neither the time, desire, nor inclination for that.

JamieX - the verdict's still out for me, but my purpose here is just to show people you don't have to spend @ssloads of $$$ on fancy NO/arginine supps, the regular stuff works just fine. I've been on it for @ 2 weeks now. So far I notice slightly more strength when taken with creatine, than taking creatine on its own in previous trials (ie, compared to the first two weeks of a creatine-only phase).

Well then you've got the wrong purpose. Your purpose shouldn't be to try to prove the cheap stuff is just fine. It should be to get to the truth, ...especially if the jury is still out as you say.  In addition, your paradigm is all wrong. You've taken the assumption that all arginine is the same and that all manufacturers and/or supp suppliers know what they're doing. The fact is they don't. The vast majority of supplement manufacturers do not even have the ability to verify that what they've ordered, is in fact what they've received, let alone the ability to test for product purity, potency, and consistency. Most companies lack the fiscal ability to ensure these things in the products they put together. They throw ingredients in a bottle and hope they sell, ...and they'll throw a low price tag on it, in hopes of getting people who don't know enough to ask the correct questions and make the correct inquiries of the products they use.

I'm happy to say that the company I represent, has invested the millions of dollars in the equipment, and laboratories that give us the ability to verify and ensure every product that leaves our facility. I've toured the facilities in Spanish Fork Utah, and it is quite impressive.

Hmmmm...  So let's get this straight, ...you've been on cheap arginine for 2 weeks, have never tried ProArgi-9, but assume it works the same?

Come on Ben!  That's like saying you've just started driving a Pinto for 2 weeks and it's just as good, and handles the road just as well as a porsche. I mean, yes, ...they're both combustion automobiles that run on gasoline, ...but when it comes down to it, what do they really have in common?  First get behind the wheel of a porsche, so you'll at least have a frame of reference and an ability to make a comparison  ...then tell me if you still think there's no difference in how they handle the road.

[250Ben250]

If you truly desire to have an intelligent & civil discussion, you might want to rethink that last statement.

easy there, I was humoring Havenbull, I've seen his Jaguar MO. 

Other than that, honestly Judi, I appreciate your responses, but condense, my God woman condense!!  I'll pick through this later, but instead of spending the time to write pages after page in response, find me a reference. All I need is at least one single study showing me that this organic carrier is superior. I understand you're analogy just fine. It makes sense, but not is there's no scientific basis. If you can support it, I'll look into running a month or 2 of Pro-Argi, if I can get a break on it. Hell I'll promote just as much as you! I'm not anti-jaguar supps at all, but there's way to much BS/overhyping in this industry, and between you and me your long-winded stories aren't selling anyone here.  I've heard the history, I've read the articles, now its time to show me the cold hard facts. Either there's something out there to support all these claims or there isn't.

This is why I turn down offers to do the whole Advocare/Amway/etc.. thing. People get so wrapped up in the flowery explainations for why their products are so much better than anything on the market with absolutely no reason to other than that's what they were brainwashed with by whoever signed them up for the "program"... Prove me wrong.

[Vince G, CSN MFT]

ProArgi 9 will now have to bow to my latest products I'm carrying.... details on my site

[Vince G, CSN MFT]

Oh yeah, the AndroHGH is at a  special intro  price at only $19.95 for 50 servings

[Havenbull]

but instead of spending the time to write pages after page in response, find me a reference. All I need is at least one single study showing me that this organic carrier is superior. I understand you're analogy just fine. It makes sense, but not is there's no scientific basis. If you can support it, I'll look into running a month or 2 of Pro-Argi, if I can get a break on it. Hell I'll promote just as much as you! I'm not anti-jaguar supps at all, but there's way to much BS/overhyping in this industry, and between you and me your long-winded stories aren't selling anyone here.  I've heard the history, I've read the articles, now its time to show me the cold hard facts. Either there's something out there to support all these claims or there isn't.

Ben, I went through your exact same arguements almost a year a half ago.  I said "show me legitimate studies" and "where is the research?"

This is what she'll resond with:  studies from www.arginineresearch.com (this website is put out by De Wees Allen.)  It is not independent from Synergy network marketing, which Jaguar uses as her product umbrella

[250Ben250]

Thanks for the headsup, I would assume someone with half a brain knows that independent means...independent, ie: found on pub-med, JAMA, etc. I'm giving Jaguar the benefit of the doubt, I'm sure if there's something valid out there she has access to it....

[24KT]

easy there, I was humoring Havenbull, I've seen his Jaguar MO. 

Other than that, honestly Judi, I appreciate your responses, but condense, my God woman condense!! 

ROTFLMAO  ok, I'll try to go easy on you.

I'll pick through this later, but instead of spending the time to write pages after page in response, find me a reference. All I need is at least one single study showing me that this organic carrier is superior. I understand you're analogy just fine. It makes sense, but not is there's no scientific basis. If you can support it, I'll look into running a month or 2 of Pro-Argi, if I can get a break on it. Hell I'll promote just as much as you! I'm not anti-jaguar supps at all, but there's way to much BS/overhyping in this industry, and between you and me your long-winded stories aren't selling anyone here.  I've heard the history, I've read the articles, now its time to show me the cold hard facts. Either there's something out there to support all these claims or there isn't.

This is why I turn down offers to do the whole Advocare/Amway/etc.. thing. People get so wrapped up in the flowery explainations for why their products are so much better than anything on the market with absolutely no reason to other than that's what they were brainwashed with by whoever signed them up for the "program"... Prove me wrong.

I understand exactly what you're saying. Believe me I do. I've been in this industry for 15 years so I know what you're talking about. I detest the proselytizing often found in this industry. The challenge though is to enable the lay person to understand the science without putting them to sleep. hehe. Our company is breaking that paradigm, and we're in the process of instituting a model whereby we are able to disseminate the info both to the layperson and have them understand it, ...while simultaneously providing the clinical data for clinicians, physicians and others in the medical & scientific communities.

I would assume someone with half a brain knows that independent means...independent, ie: found on pub-med, JAMA, etc. I'm giving Jaguar the benefit of the doubt, I'm sure if there's something valid out there she has access to it....

Ben, please understand, there is some major chaos (in a good way) going on in my life right now. I'm trying to get on top of it, and for all practical purposes, am functioning in all North American time zones & all the Australian time zones simultaneously  Between Hawaii & Brisbane, thats 22 hours difference, I'm already 4 days behind and must make this my priority... if I don't get a handle on it, I'll fall farther & further behind, ...but I will get back to you.

Now, these weren't the studies I originally referred to, ...but with your juicy tempting offer on the table, I figured I'd throw something out there for ya. These studies are with regards to the fertility & sperm motility questions raised earlier. When our Australian tour concludes mid Nov, hopefully I'll have more of a handle on things and I'll have more time to devote the appropriate attention in order to address your issue and concerns.

Asian J Androl. 2001 Jun;3(2):97-103.
L-arginine, the substrate of nitric oxide synthase, inhibits fertility of male rats.
Ratnasooriya WD, Dharmasiri MG.
Department of Zoology, University of Colombo, Sri Lanka.

for the full text see: http://www.asiaandro.com/1008-682X/3/97.htm

abstract:
AIM: To examine the effect of L-arginine, the substrate of nitric oxide (NO) synthase, on reproductive function of male rats. METHODS: Male rats were gavaged with either L-arginine (100 or 200 mg x kg(-1) x d(-1)), D-arginine (200 mg x kg(-1) x d(-1)) or vehicle (0.9% NaCl) for seven consecutive days. Their sexual behaviour and fertility were evaluated using receptive females. RESULTS: L-arginine (200 mg/kg) had no significant effect on sexual competence (in terms of sexual arousal, libido, sexual vigour and sexual performance). In mating experiments, the higher dose of L-arginine effectively and reversibly inhibited fertility, whilst the lower dose and the inactive stereoisomer D-arginine had no significant effect. The antifertility effect caused by L-arginine was due to a profound elevation in the preimplantation loss mediated possibly by impairment in epididymal sperm maturation, hyperactivated sperm motility and sperm capacitation. CONCLUSION: Elevated NO production may be detrimental to male fertility.

Mol Hum Reprod. 1997 Sep;3(9):755-62.
Sperm nitric oxide and motility: the effects of nitric oxide synthase stimulation and inhibition.
Donnelly ET, Lewis SE, Thompson W, Chakravarthy U.
Department of Obstetrics and Gynaecology, The Queen's University of Belfast, Institute of Clinical Science, Northern Ireland, UK.

for full text, see: http://molehr.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/reprint/3/9/755

Nitric oxide (NO) is synthesized from L-arginine by a family of enzymes known as the nitric oxide synthases (NOS). We have recently shown a NOS similar to constitutive brain NOS (bNOS) and endothelial NOS (ecNOS) to be present in spermatozoa. The aim of this study is to investigate NO production by human spermatozoa and the effects of stimulation and inhibition of NOS. This was carried out using the Iso-NO, an isolated NO meter and sensor, which provides rapid, accurate and direct measurements of NO. Semen samples with normozoospermic and asthenozoospermic profiles were prepared using a direct swim-up technique. Basal concentrations of NO and stimulated NO production were measured after exposure to the calcium ionophore (A23187; 0.01-10 microM) a potent activator of constitutive NOS. NO production in human spermatozoa was significantly increased by the addition of A23187 30 seconds after stimulation. Furthermore, this response was greatly diminished by pre-incubating the samples with competitive inhibitors of L-arginine, the substrate for NOS, before treatment with calcium ionophore. In the presence of N(G)-nitro-L-arginine methyl ester (L-NAME), N(G)-nitro-L-arginine (L-NA) or N(G)-methyl-L-arginine (L-NMMA; all at 10 microM), NO production was inhibited with a rank order of potency L-NAME > L-NMMA > L-NA which is in accordance with the inhibition of an endothelial type of constitutive NOS.


Yang JZ, Ajonuma LC, Rowlands DK, Tsang LL, Ho LS, Lam SY, Chen WY, Zhou CX, Chung YW, Cho CY, Tse JY, James AE, Chan HC.  The role of inducible nitric oxide synthase in gamete interaction and fertilization: a comparative study on knockout mice of three NOS isoforms.Cell Biol Int. 2005 Sep;29(9):785-91.


Arch Androl. 2004 May-Jun;50(3):173-9.
Effects of nitric oxide on human spermatozoa activity, fertilization and mouse embryonic development.
Wu TP, Huang BM, Tsai HC, Lui MC, Liu MY.
Department of Gynecology and Obstetrics, Sin-Lau Christian Hospital, Taiwan.

abstract:
This study was conducted to investigate the effects of nitric oxide (NO) on human sperm activity, human sperm-oocyte fusion and mouse embryonic development. Results showed that various concentrations of NO synthase blocker, N(omega)-nitro-L-arginine methyl ester, did not affect sperm cell motility at 0, 1, 2 or 4 hr, respectively. In contrast, sodium nitroprusside (SNP) significantly inhibited sperm cell motility and caused apoptosis. The adversely dose-dependent effect was only observed if SNP was freshly prepared. Adenosine triphosphate reversed the hazardous effect of SNP on sperm activity/viability. Hemoglobin neutralized the adverse effect of SNP. In hemi-zona sperm fusion test, the number of sperm bound to the zona in the presence of 10(-4) M SNP was significantly less than the control group. SNP at 10(-4) M caused all mouse embryonic development arrest. 46% and 56% of zygote reached the blastocyst stage with the treatment of 10(-6) M and 10(-8) M SNP, respectively, while the control reached 70%. NO adversely affected human sperm activity, human sperm-zona binding and embryonic development. It would appear that high concentration of NO may potentially decrease fertility.
 

J Androl. 2004 Mar-Apr;25(2):245-9.
Role of nitric oxide concentrations on human sperm motility.
Balercia G, Moretti S, Vignini A, Magagnini M, Mantero F, Boscaro M, Ricciardo-Lamonica G, Mazzanti L.
Endocrinology Division, Department of Internal Medicine, University of Ancona, Ancona, Italy.

abstract:
Nitric oxide (NO) is a free radical generated from the oxidation of L-arginine to L-citrulline by 3 isoforms of reduced nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide phosphate (NADPH)-dependent NO synthases. Several data suggest a relevant role in sperm cell pathophysiology, but any conclusive data on its role in spermatozoa motility are still lacking. In the present study, we have correlated NO concentration in semen and kinetic features of sperm cells from normozoospermic fertile donors and infertile patients affected by idiopathic asthenozoospermia. Normozoospermic fertile men exhibited NO concentrations that were significantly lower than those of asthenozoospermic infertile men. A significant linear negative correlation was evident between NO concentration and percentage of total sperm motility. A further significant linear negative correlation was found between NO concentration and spermatozoa kinetic characteristics determined by a computerized analysis (curvilinear and straight progressive velocity). These data suggest that the overproduction of this free radical and the consequent excessive exposure to oxidative conditions have a potential pathogenetic implication in the reduction of sperm motility. The positive role played by NO in spermatozoa capacitation leads us to speculate that such paradoxical involvement in both pathologic and physiologic processes depends on the alternative redox state and relative level of NO.

Cell Mol Biol (Noisy-le-grand). 2003 May;49(3):421-8.   
Inhibition of in vitro capacitation of hamster spermatozoa by nitric oxide synthase inhibitors.
Kameshwari DB, Siva AB, Shivaji S.
Centre for Cellular and Molecular Biology, Uppal Road, Hyderabad 500 007, India.

abstract:
In an attempt to understand the role of nitric oxide(NO) in sperm capacitation, in the present study, hamster spermatozoa were used to evaluate the effects of NO on motility, viability, hyperactivation, capacitation and protein tyrosine and serine phosphorylation using specific inhibitors of nitric oxide synthase (NOS); namely L-NAME (N-nito-L-aginine methyl ester) and 7-Ni (7-nitroindazole). The results indicated that L-NAME inhibits sperm motility, hyperactivation and acrosome reaction where as 7-Ni inhibits only hyperactivation and acrosome reaction thus implying that NOS inhibitors exhibit subtle differences with respect to their effects on sperm functions. This study also provides evidence that NOS inhibitors inhibit sperm capacitation by their ability to modulate protein tyrosine phosphorylation. However, the inhibitors had no effect on the protein serine phosphorylation of hamster spermatozoa during capacitation. Thus, these results indicate that NO is required

Now I know the Hyderab study was conducted on hamsters and not humans, ...but I'm sure there are more than a few guys in here that ...let's say ...have alot in common with the hamsters. <giggle>

Hope That Helps,

[Havenbull]

These studies you posted don't mean shit to what you're selling them for.  MUSCLE BUILDING

I knew you wouldn't be able to produce independent research of arginine and its muscle building benefits.

[24KT]

ProArgi 9 will now have to bow to my latest products I'm carrying.... details on my site

<LOL> Don't get your hopes up too high baby! I'd hate to see them come crashing down 

We neither take a back seat nor bow to no one!   

We have millions of $$$ in liquid assets and a fulltime team of chemists, scientists, and researchers in our R&D labs who ensure that we will always be on the cutting edge of technologies that are light years ahead of anyone else's, and will always provide the best of the best of what science & nature can provide.

See: Encode[/b][/color]  <---clickable link, ...and eat your heart out baby 
(my business partner interviews Dr Ann deWees Allen)

You might want to take long hard look Vince,
...it might help you to grasp a teeny bit of understanding when it comes to  "The Mechanics of Wealth"[/b][/color]  <--another clickable link just for your benefit Vince.   

Hope That Clarifies,

[showcasekid]

Hi I stumbled across this post. I'm very familiar with the work of this researcher. What Jaguar is saying is completely accurate. You want a double blind study to demonstrate what he is saying is correct then read January 4th, 2006 edition of JAMA.
In fact both Bloomberg picked up on the story as well as the Wallstreet Journal and guess who they interviewed?
Dr. Ann Dewees Allen, Here is a copy of the Wall Street Journal story along with Research substantiating her claims.
You will likely see every arginine product on the market pulled from the shelves within the next year! Except the one Jag is talking about because it's the only product that has demonstrated safe long term use in humans.
I don't sell the stuff but I can tell that Jag has a real cause here. 
Go to http://http://www.arginineanswers.com/MedicalNews.htm

[24KT]

Hi I stumbled across this post. I'm very familiar with the work of this researcher. What Jaguar is saying is completely accurate. You want a double blind study to demonstrate what he is saying is correct then read January 4th, 2006 edition of JAMA.
In fact both Bloomberg picked up on the story as well as the Wallstreet Journal and guess who they interviewed?
Dr. Ann Dewees Allen, Here is a copy of the Wall Street Journal story along with Research substantiating her claims.
You will likely see every arginine product on the market pulled from the shelves within the next year! Except the one Jag is talking about because it's the only product that has demonstrated safe long term use in humans.
I don't sell the stuff but I can tell that Jag has a real cause here. 
Go to http://http://www.arginineanswers.com/MedicalNews.htm

Thanks for the support showcase kid.

I had already published a copy of it in this link: http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=52706.0

Where did you hear that all others arginine's were going to be pulled? That's music to my ears. 
Not that I'm complaining mind you, but was wondering where you heard this.

ps - I'm a she.