Author Topic: SS now only has 1.75 full time workers for ever retiree. Ponzi Scheme anyone?  (Read 904 times)

Soul Crusher

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Labor Dept. Data: Only 1.75 Full-Time Private Sector Workers Per Social Security Recipient
CNS News ^ | 9/12/11 | Terence P. Jeffrey
Posted on September 12, 2011 7:11:50 PM EDT by Nachum

(CNSNews.com) - There were only 1.75 full-time private-sector workers in the United States last year for each person receiving benefits from Social Security, according to data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics and the Social Security board of trustees.

That means that for each husband and wife who worked full-time in the private sector last year there was a Social Security recipient somewhere in the country taking benefits from the federal government.

Most state and local workers are part of the Social Security system and pay Social Security taxes; and, since 1984, all federal workers have been part of the system and pay Social Security taxes. However, unlike private sector workers who pay Social Security taxes with private-sector dollars, government workers pay their payroll taxes out of wages government pays them with tax dollars or with money that was borrowed by government and taxpayers must eventually repay.

(Excerpt) Read more at cnsnews.com ...

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In its latest annual report, the Social Security board of trustees reported that the federal government’s total revenue from Social Security taxes in 2010—$544.8 billion—was not enough to cover Social Security’s total benefit payments—$577.4 billion.

The board of trustees also reported that there were 156.725 million “covered workers” in the United States who paid some Social Security taxes during 2010. But these 156.725 million “covered workers” included all workers—including government workers—who were “paid at some time during the year for employment” on which Social Security taxes were due. People who worked full-time for 52 weeks during the year were included with people who worked only part-time for a month.

The Social Security board of trustees reported that there were 53.398 million Social Security beneficiaries in 2010.

That meant, as the Social Security board of trustees reported, that there were just 2.9 “covered workers” who paid some Social Security taxes in 2010 for each individual who received Social Security benefits.

(According to the Social Security board of trustees, there were 41.9 "covered workers" per Social Security beneficiary in 1945.) 

However, the Bureau of Labor Statistics has generated data indicating how many full-time workers there were in the country in 2010 and how many of these worked in government as opposed to the private sector.

According to BLS, there were 111.714 million full-time workers in the United States last year. Of these, 18.073 million worked for local, state or federal government, and 93.641 million worked in the private sector.

The 93.641 million full-time private sector workers last year worked out to 1.75 for each person receiving Social Security benefits.

These 93.641 million full-time private sector workers were the foundation of the tax base that supported both government at large and Social Security in particular.

Prior to 1983, states and localities could legally opt their employees out of the Social Security system. In 1981, for example, the employees of Galveston County, Texas, voted 78 percent to 22 percent to opt out of the Social Security system for a locally run retirement plan. Brazoria and Matagorda counties in Texas also opted out of Social Security.








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Privatizing it is a TERRIBLE IDEA, kids.

The market is so insanely rigged, and we all know it.  Numbers dropping 1000 points because "somebody typed in Billion instead of Million?  Horseshit!"

Every time a commpany folds, you will have tens of thousands (or more) people losing everything and becomign a burden on society.  

Tell me this - if the bill passed tomorrow - where would YOU put your savings for social security?  Do you have any idea what companies will be in good shape - or even solvent - in 30+ years?   And how will you feel if another round of failed banks circa 2008 happens about 5 minutes before you retire, and you lose it all?

People don't see this.  It's easy to say 'let me keep my money'.   But it's damn hard to find ANY safe place to put that $ so it'll be there in 40 years.  


If Dubya had passed it in 2005/6.... there would have been TENS OF MILLIONS of people who lost their retirement due to bank failings in 2008.  What the foook would our economy look like today, with 20 million more homesless/starving people?  Seriously/

Soul Crusher

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Yet another issue you an Ron Paul differ on.

240 is Back

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Yet another issue you an Ron Paul differ on.


do you shave with a bic, or clippers?  I shaved a few weeks back, toying with it still.

Fury

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Yet another issue you an Ron Paul differ on.

There isn't a single issue they actually agree on. It's just "cool" to say you support Ron Paul these days. Give it a few months and he'll be back to sucking Donwgrade's "scepter" and casting his vote for him.

Soul Crusher

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do you shave with a bic, or clippers?  I shaved a few weeks back, toying with it still.

Mach 3.     xpensive, but worth it.

Purge_WTF

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  Oh well--with the way they keep raising the retirement age, you'll probably be dead before you can collect it anyway.

The True Adonis

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  Oh well--with the way they keep raising the retirement age, you'll probably be dead before you can collect it anyway.
Another great Republican idea!  Raising the retirement age.

You know why the Republican base likes this idea, because they don`t realize that they are going to die one day.  They think they live on in the Magical Jesus Cloud Theme Park in the afterlife.

Soul Crusher

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Re: SS now only has 1.75 full time workers for ever retiree. Ponzi Scheme anyone?
« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2011, 03:09:19 AM »
Its broke. 

GigantorX

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Re: SS now only has 1.75 full time workers for ever retiree. Ponzi Scheme anyone?
« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2011, 05:50:11 AM »
http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/labor-dept-data-only-175-full-time-private-sector-workers-social-security-recipient


Wow.    This mess is going to implode faster than I thought. 

We should keep cutting payroll taxes, that will help shore it up.

Soul Crusher

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Re: SS now only has 1.75 full time workers for ever retiree. Ponzi Scheme anyone?
« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2011, 05:52:53 AM »
We should keep cutting payroll taxes, that will help shore it up.

If we are realistically going to maintain SS in its present form, the only way to "save" it is the following: 

1.  al gores lock box idea
2.  Cut benes to current and future retirees
3.  Raise the age limit
4.  Increase the threshhold for SS withholding to apply to
5.  End SSDI 

tu_holmes

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Re: SS now only has 1.75 full time workers for ever retiree. Ponzi Scheme anyone?
« Reply #13 on: September 15, 2011, 11:09:22 PM »
Interesting read... Opinions?


http://www.addictinginfo.org/2011/09/15/social-security-is-not-a-ponzi-scheme-private-health-insurance-is/

Social Security Is Not A Ponzi Scheme, Private Health Insurance Is

Rick Perryz has been making a lot of headlines lately with his claim that Social Security is a Ponzi scheme. Before 2008, when Bernie Madoff was arrested for his Ponzi scheme, it’s doubtful most Americans had heard the term. Republicans, whose main agenda is to privatize absolutely everything, saw the Madoff scandal as an opportunity. The term ‘Ponzi scheme’ is pithy. It’s easy to remember. It rolls right off the tongue and it fits nicely on a bumper sticker. For the rabid right, it had all the attributes for a great talking point in going after their number one target, Social Security.

It’s working. In a poll, two thirds of Republicans and nearly half of the general public believes Social Security is a Ponzi scheme.

‘Ponzi scheme’ has become synonymous with ‘fraud,’ and there is a certain amount of truth there, but Ponzi schemes are a specific type of fraud. They are similar to pyramid schemes. Ponzi schemes only work when people can convince a lot of investors to participate. Investors are promised huge returns. The closer an investor is to the top of the pyramid, the larger the return. A Ponzi scheme is designed to collapse, leaving the bottom rungs of investors broke.

I’ll grant you that there are a couple of basic similarities between Social Security and Ponzi schemes. They both require a large number of participants whose contributions are paid to other people, but the same could be said of investments in the stock market or money put into bank accounts. In all three of those cases you are loaning your money to the institution in anticipation of a future payout.

That is where the similarities end. Social Security is not a Ponzi scheme. There is no expectation of profit, by anyone. The administrators of Social Security don’t profit. Elderly people (those at the “top”) certainly don’t profit, and contrary to popular belief, there is no risk.



 

According to the Congressional Budget Office, if we do nothing at all, Social Security will be solvent through 2038 and mostly solvent long past that. That’s if we do nothing. There are a couple of very easy fixes for Social Security. If we eliminate the payroll cap, voila, the system is flush with cash. We do need to do one thing though. We need to do what Al Gorez had talked about in 2000, put Social Security in a lock box.

The Bush administration had a habit of funding expensive programs, like tax cuts to the wealthy, with the Social Security trust fund. This benefitted them in a couple of ways. It gave them access to quick cash and allowed them to hide the tax cuts from the budget. If we “locked” the fund, or made it impossible to access, it would be safe.

Now that we know that Social Security isn’t a Ponzi scheme, let’s look at one of the biggest Ponzi schemes in the country, private health insurance. Let’s look at what private health insurance does:

First, they recruit large numbers of investors, with a promise of a future payoff that will be much greater than their investment (a bout of cancer will easily exceed your investments into your insurance). – Ponzi scheme

The system is extremely top heavy. In 2009, insurance executives were paid as much as $110 million. – Ponzi scheme

Health insurance is a very risky investment. A typical health insurance company pays out on just 60% of collected premiums. In other words, if you, over a lifetime, pay $100,000 to an insurance company, you can expect to receive about $60,000 in medical care. The rest of your premiums will go to executive compensation, marketing, broker commission and administrative costs. Insurance companies are extremely profitable. During the recession, they have experienced double and even triple digit increases in profit, while regularly and consistently raising premiums. How do health insurance companies maintain that type of profit margin? It’s simple. They deny, deny, deny. Health insurance companies are denying about 30% of medical claims. In other words, when you invest in health insurance, there is absolutely no guarantee of payout, unless you are at the top of the pyramid. – Ponzi scheme

What is the Republican solution for dealing with Social Security? It is very similar to the private health insurance model. They want to privatize it. They want to invest our dollars in the risky stock market. They want to make it so that the people at the top will make a tremendous amount of profit from our money. They want to make it a very risky program for all those at the bottom. They want to turn Social Security into a Ponzi scheme.

For more on the Republican’s idea for Social Security, see the Chilean Model.

Fury

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Re: SS now only has 1.75 full time workers for ever retiree. Ponzi Scheme anyone?
« Reply #14 on: September 16, 2011, 04:19:18 AM »
Interesting read... Opinions?


http://www.addictinginfo.org/2011/09/15/social-security-is-not-a-ponzi-scheme-private-health-insurance-is/

Social Security Is Not A Ponzi Scheme, Private Health Insurance Is

Rick Perryz has been making a lot of headlines lately with his claim that Social Security is a Ponzi scheme. Before 2008, when Bernie Madoff was arrested for his Ponzi scheme, it’s doubtful most Americans had heard the term. Republicans, whose main agenda is to privatize absolutely everything, saw the Madoff scandal as an opportunity. The term ‘Ponzi scheme’ is pithy. It’s easy to remember. It rolls right off the tongue and it fits nicely on a bumper sticker. For the rabid right, it had all the attributes for a great talking point in going after their number one target, Social Security.

It’s working. In a poll, two thirds of Republicans and nearly half of the general public believes Social Security is a Ponzi scheme.

‘Ponzi scheme’ has become synonymous with ‘fraud,’ and there is a certain amount of truth there, but Ponzi schemes are a specific type of fraud. They are similar to pyramid schemes. Ponzi schemes only work when people can convince a lot of investors to participate. Investors are promised huge returns. The closer an investor is to the top of the pyramid, the larger the return. A Ponzi scheme is designed to collapse, leaving the bottom rungs of investors broke.

I’ll grant you that there are a couple of basic similarities between Social Security and Ponzi schemes. They both require a large number of participants whose contributions are paid to other people, but the same could be said of investments in the stock market or money put into bank accounts. In all three of those cases you are loaning your money to the institution in anticipation of a future payout.

That is where the similarities end. Social Security is not a Ponzi scheme. There is no expectation of profit, by anyone. The administrators of Social Security don’t profit. Elderly people (those at the “top”) certainly don’t profit, and contrary to popular belief, there is no risk.



 

According to the Congressional Budget Office, if we do nothing at all, Social Security will be solvent through 2038 and mostly solvent long past that. That’s if we do nothing. There are a couple of very easy fixes for Social Security. If we eliminate the payroll cap, voila, the system is flush with cash. We do need to do one thing though. We need to do what Al Gorez had talked about in 2000, put Social Security in a lock box.

The Bush administration had a habit of funding expensive programs, like tax cuts to the wealthy, with the Social Security trust fund. This benefitted them in a couple of ways. It gave them access to quick cash and allowed them to hide the tax cuts from the budget. If we “locked” the fund, or made it impossible to access, it would be safe.

Now that we know that Social Security isn’t a Ponzi scheme, let’s look at one of the biggest Ponzi schemes in the country, private health insurance. Let’s look at what private health insurance does:

First, they recruit large numbers of investors, with a promise of a future payoff that will be much greater than their investment (a bout of cancer will easily exceed your investments into your insurance). – Ponzi scheme

The system is extremely top heavy. In 2009, insurance executives were paid as much as $110 million. – Ponzi scheme

Health insurance is a very risky investment. A typical health insurance company pays out on just 60% of collected premiums. In other words, if you, over a lifetime, pay $100,000 to an insurance company, you can expect to receive about $60,000 in medical care. The rest of your premiums will go to executive compensation, marketing, broker commission and administrative costs. Insurance companies are extremely profitable. During the recession, they have experienced double and even triple digit increases in profit, while regularly and consistently raising premiums. How do health insurance companies maintain that type of profit margin? It’s simple. They deny, deny, deny. Health insurance companies are denying about 30% of medical claims. In other words, when you invest in health insurance, there is absolutely no guarantee of payout, unless you are at the top of the pyramid. – Ponzi scheme

What is the Republican solution for dealing with Social Security? It is very similar to the private health insurance model. They want to privatize it. They want to invest our dollars in the risky stock market. They want to make it so that the people at the top will make a tremendous amount of profit from our money. They want to make it a very risky program for all those at the bottom. They want to turn Social Security into a Ponzi scheme.

For more on the Republican’s idea for Social Security, see the Chilean Model.

That article loses all weight when it uses the CBO estimate as its only justification that SS isn't a ponzi scheme.

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Re: SS now only has 1.75 full time workers for ever retiree. Ponzi Scheme anyone?
« Reply #15 on: September 16, 2011, 04:27:43 AM »
SS was never meant to run a surplus.

tu_holmes

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Re: SS now only has 1.75 full time workers for ever retiree. Ponzi Scheme anyone?
« Reply #16 on: September 16, 2011, 12:24:29 PM »
That article loses all weight when it uses the CBO estimate as its only justification that SS isn't a ponzi scheme.

I thought something along those lines as well... Has the date of "solvency" changed depending on who's in the CBO at any given time?

Just wondering myself.

Soul Crusher

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Re: SS now only has 1.75 full time workers for ever retiree. Ponzi Scheme anyone?
« Reply #17 on: September 16, 2011, 12:27:23 PM »
I thought something along those lines as well... Has the date of "solvency" changed depending on who's in the CBO at any given time?

Just wondering myself.

The basic assumptions of SS vs now are totally fucked up. 

when it was started  - 16 : 1 worker retiree ratio and age expectation was 62 or so.   Additionally, pay roll tax was only 1% at that time.   

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Re: SS now only has 1.75 full time workers for ever retiree. Ponzi Scheme anyone?
« Reply #18 on: September 16, 2011, 04:16:26 PM »
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/a-ponzi-scheme-that-should-be-fixed/2011/09/15/gIQAn6EfVK_story.html?hpid=z2

Three easy steps: Change the cost-of-living measure, means-test for richer recipients and, most important, raise the retirement age. The current retirement age is an absurd anachronism. Bismarck arbitrarily chose 70 when he created social insurance in 1889. Clever guy: Life expectancy at the time was under 50.

When Franklin Roosevelt created Social Security, choosing 65 as the eligibility age, life expectancy was 62. Today it is almost 80. FDR wanted to prevent the aged few from suffering destitution in their last remaining years. Social Security was not meant to provide two decades of greens fees for baby boomers.

Of course it’s a Ponzi scheme. So what? It’s also the most vital, humane and fixable of all social programs. The question for the candidates is: Forget Ponzi — are you going to fix Social Security?

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Re: SS now only has 1.75 full time workers for ever retiree. Ponzi Scheme anyone?
« Reply #19 on: September 16, 2011, 06:59:57 PM »
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/a-ponzi-scheme-that-should-be-fixed/2011/09/15/gIQAn6EfVK_story.html?hpid=z2

Three easy steps: Change the cost-of-living measure, means-test for richer recipients and, most important, raise the retirement age. The current retirement age is an absurd anachronism. Bismarck arbitrarily chose 70 when he created social insurance in 1889. Clever guy: Life expectancy at the time was under 50.

When Franklin Roosevelt created Social Security, choosing 65 as the eligibility age, life expectancy was 62. Today it is almost 80. FDR wanted to prevent the aged few from suffering destitution in their last remaining years. Social Security was not meant to provide two decades of greens fees for baby boomers.

Of course it’s a Ponzi scheme. So what? It’s also the most vital, humane and fixable of all social programs. The question for the candidates is: Forget Ponzi — are you going to fix Social Security?
Maximum Life Span hasn`t changed much at all in over 100 plus years.  :-\
Average Life Expectancy is a bit pointless as what brings it down the most is childhood death and infancy deaths, both which were much, much higher then versus now.

The statistic one needs to look for historically is Maximum Life Span and as I said, it has NOT changed much at all.

Hugo Chavez

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Re: SS now only has 1.75 full time workers for ever retiree. Ponzi Scheme anyone?
« Reply #20 on: September 16, 2011, 08:05:56 PM »
Yet another issue you an Ron Paul differ on.
I think paul has said he just wants there to be a mode for people to opt out of it and invest that money for their future as they wish.  He's recently idicated that he would not seek to end SS.