Author Topic: Audience at tea party debate cheers leaving uninsured to die  (Read 5311 times)

loco

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Audience at tea party debate cheers leaving uninsured to die
« on: September 13, 2011, 11:32:46 AM »
If you're uninsured and on the brink of death, that's apparently a laughing matter to some audience members at last night's tea party Republican presidential debate.

Texas Rep. Ron Paul, a doctor, was asked a hypothetical question by CNN host Wolf Blitzer about how society should respond if a healthy 30-year-old man who decided against buying health insurance suddenly goes into a coma and requires intensive care for six months. Paul--a fierce limited-government advocate-- said it shouldn't be the government's responsibility. "That's what freedom is all about, taking your own risks," Paul said and was drowned out by audience applause as he added, "this whole idea that you have to prepare to take care of everybody…"

"Are you saying that society should just let him die?" Blitzer pressed Paul. And that's when the audience got involved.

Several loud cheers of "yeah!" followed by laughter
could be heard in the Expo Hall at the Florida State Fairgrounds in response to Blitzer's question.

Paul disagreed with the audience on that front. "No," he responded, noting he practiced medicine before Medicaid when churches took care of medical costs--a comment that drew wide audience applause. "We never turned anybody away from the hospital."

Paul voiced support for legalizing alternative health care and argued that the reason medical costs have skyrocketed is that individuals have stopped taking personal responsibility for their health care.

Though Paul spoke to the larger issue of health care and government-backed health insurance--both pivotal issues in the 2012 election--the audience's reaction has overshadowed the substance of the exchange on the debate podium. And the day after the event, Texas Gov. Rick Perry offered his own criticism of the audience response.

"I was a bit taken aback by that myself," Perry told NBC News and the Miami Herald of the audience reaction after appearing at a breakfast fundraiser in Tampa Tuesday morning.

"We're the party of life. We ought to be coming up with ways to save lives."

The campaigns for Mitt Romney and Michele Bachmann did not immediately respond to The Ticket's requests for comment.

Conservative Andrew Sullivan writing for The Daily Beast's The Dish Tuesday noted that the United States obligates society to save someone in an emergency room. "America, moreover, has a law on the books that makes it a crime not to treat and try to save a human being who walks into an emergency room. So we have already made that collective decision and if the GOP wants to revisit it, they can," Sullivan wrote.

Sullivan also decried the audience reaction, writing: "Maybe a tragedy like the death of a feckless twentysomething is inevitable if we are to restrain healthcare costs. But it is still a tragedy. It is not something a decent person cheers."

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/audience-tea-party-debate-cheers-leaving-uninsured-die-163216817.html

chadstallion

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Re: Audience at tea party debate cheers leaving uninsured to die
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2011, 12:14:17 PM »
great use of the word "feckless"  ;)
w

MCWAY

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Re: Audience at tea party debate cheers leaving uninsured to die
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2011, 12:40:22 PM »
Thanks for highlighting the critical parts. You should take this to HP, as some of the goofies there can't read.

blacken700

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Re: Audience at tea party debate cheers leaving uninsured to die
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2011, 12:51:44 PM »
what would jesus do

Soul Crusher

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Re: Audience at tea party debate cheers leaving uninsured to die
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2011, 12:55:28 PM »
what would jesus do

Yawn. 

Its actually a good discussion - i dont see where taxpayers should be on the hook for millions and millions of dollars for a ventillator if this guy is never coming back.   

blacken700

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Re: Audience at tea party debate cheers leaving uninsured to die
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2011, 01:01:11 PM »
Yawn. 

Its actually a good discussion - i dont see where taxpayers should be on the hook for millions and millions of dollars for a ventillator if this guy is never coming back.   

sort of like when they wanted to take terri schiavo off life support and all the right wing nuts wanted to keep her on

Soul Crusher

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Re: Audience at tea party debate cheers leaving uninsured to die
« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2011, 01:02:39 PM »
sort of like when they wanted to take terri schiavo off life support and all the right wing nuts wanted to keep her on

No - the family in that case said they would pick up the tab.   Blacken - FAIL   

blacken700

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Re: Audience at tea party debate cheers leaving uninsured to die
« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2011, 01:06:37 PM »
No - the family in that case said they would pick up the tab.   Blacken - FAIL   

Life support and who pays for it 2006-04-07 / Columns

FROMA HARROP

Most of the fist-waving a year ago was over whether Michael Schiavo had the right to order the removal of his wife's life support. Terri's parents said that they wanted their daughter kept alive, and that if Michael did not wish to care for her, they would.

The parents' view clashed with reality. The reality was that the nurses at a Florida hospice were taking care of Terri, and Medicaid was paying for them. Clearly, the taxpayers also had a stake in these painful decisions, though no one talked about it much.

Soul Crusher

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Re: Audience at tea party debate cheers leaving uninsured to die
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2011, 01:08:38 PM »
Life support and who pays for it 2006-04-07 / Columns

FROMA HARROP

Most of the fist-waving a year ago was over whether Michael Schiavo had the right to order the removal of his wife's life support. Terri's parents said that they wanted their daughter kept alive, and that if Michael did not wish to care for her, they would.

The parents' view clashed with reality. The reality was that the nurses at a Florida hospice were taking care of Terri, and Medicaid was paying for them. Clearly, the taxpayers also had a stake in these painful decisions, though no one talked about it much.


At the time - but to keep her alive they said they would pay for her.  Could have been bs, but its not the same thing.   


either way - where are taxpayers responsible for all people all the time no matter what the cost? 

blacken700

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Re: Audience at tea party debate cheers leaving uninsured to die
« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2011, 01:13:50 PM »
At the time - but to keep her alive they said they would pay for her.  Could have been bs, but its not the same thing.   


either way - where are taxpayers responsible for all people all the time no matter what the cost? 

i could say i'll give you a million dollars,but i wouldn't hold your breath,people will say anything to get what they want

Skip8282

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Re: Audience at tea party debate cheers leaving uninsured to die
« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2011, 03:08:04 PM »
This is exactly why it's impossible to have a program where it's possible to opt out.  And if you're forced to buy it, it's probably unconstitutional (IMO).  What a fucking quagmire.

Agnostic007

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Re: Audience at tea party debate cheers leaving uninsured to die
« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2011, 03:19:46 PM »
I agree with Ron Paul. If someone opts out of insurance and loses the bet, it should not be the governments roll to take care of him. Churches can step forward and put some of that tax free money to work there

Butterbean

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Re: Audience at tea party debate cheers leaving uninsured to die
« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2011, 05:59:01 PM »
Churches can step forward and put some of that tax free money to work there

This happens now, and often.  And I assume you know this but very often the uninsured is not a church member nor a believer.
R

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Re: Audience at tea party debate cheers leaving uninsured to die
« Reply #13 on: September 13, 2011, 06:04:27 PM »
This is exactly why it's impossible to have a program where it's possible to opt out.  And if you're forced to buy it, it's probably unconstitutional (IMO).  What a fucking quagmire.

how is this an example of why it's "impossible" to have an opt out

You can have the opt out and strictly enforce it without cheering for someones death

and if the opt out is enforced the person still has the option to purchase his own private insurance or get in an employers group plan or go pay for medical expenses out of pocket

how is that any different than what we had/currently have?

If you don't have insurance now what exactly are your options?

Dos Equis

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Re: Audience at tea party debate cheers leaving uninsured to die
« Reply #14 on: September 13, 2011, 06:17:24 PM »
To put the question in context, this hypothetical involved a person who could have purchased health insurance, but chose not to.  If someone like that gets sick and dies, the government didn't "allow" that person to die.  The person chose to risk getting sick with no coverage.  That's the individual's fault.

Pretty outrageous for CNN to run this as a banner headline without the proper context. 

Skip8282

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Re: Audience at tea party debate cheers leaving uninsured to die
« Reply #15 on: September 13, 2011, 06:53:06 PM »
how is this an example of why it's "impossible" to have an opt out

You can have the opt out and strictly enforce it without cheering for someones death

and if the opt out is enforced the person still has the option to purchase his own private insurance or get in an employers group plan or go pay for medical expenses out of pocket

how is that any different than what we had/currently have?

If you don't have insurance now what exactly are your options?



Because it's never going to realistically happen.  The moment somebody dies of something like appendicitis, it will be all over every fucking news channel around talking about how cruel, evil, and heartless it was to turn that person away just because they opted out.

And I'm not defending the current system, I think I've been more than vocal in our need for health reform.  But Obamacare is a monstrosity.

240 is Back

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Re: Audience at tea party debate cheers leaving uninsured to die
« Reply #16 on: September 13, 2011, 08:28:25 PM »
n Paul knows something about uninsured men dying without health insurance. Kent Snyder, who was Paul's 2008 presidential campaign manager, died on June 26 of that year without any medical coverage. His hospital bills had accumulated to $400,000 at the time of his passing.

~snip~

So, an aide who was pivotal to the political fortunes and fundraising for Paul wasn't even given health insurance - in his hour of need - by the libertarian Congressman.

By now, almost all BuzzFlash at Truthout readers know or saw how the bloodlust of the Tea Party roared with approval when Paul said that people without health insurance are taking their own risks, and that is the way it should be.

A Pensito Review article from 2008 noted, "Snyder's death and his lack of health insurance has triggered a behind-the-scenes debate among Paul supporters and libertarian activists over whether or not the Paul campaign should have provided health insurance to its staff."

chadstallion

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Re: Audience at tea party debate cheers leaving uninsured to die
« Reply #17 on: September 14, 2011, 06:17:15 AM »
which is why we all need universal coverage.
w

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Re: Audience at tea party debate cheers leaving uninsured to die
« Reply #18 on: September 14, 2011, 06:18:59 AM »
which is why we all need universal coverage.

What they need to do is set up a national catastrophic plan of some sort that covers crazy shit, and let people pay out of pocket for the rest.   

George Whorewell

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Re: Audience at tea party debate cheers leaving uninsured to die
« Reply #19 on: September 14, 2011, 06:37:11 AM »
Would Jesus tell an old person struggling to live that they should take a painkiller and die quietly?


240 is Back

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Re: Audience at tea party debate cheers leaving uninsured to die
« Reply #20 on: September 14, 2011, 07:42:03 AM »
What they need to do is set up a national catastrophic plan of some sort that covers crazy shit, and let people pay out of pocket for the rest.   

i thought you supposted LESS govt?

Do we need another bloated "department of really bad emergencies"?

You ever heard of fema?  lol

GigantorX

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Re: Audience at tea party debate cheers leaving uninsured to die
« Reply #21 on: September 14, 2011, 07:45:42 AM »
Would Jesus tell an old person struggling to live that they should take a painkiller and die quietly?



That's the funny thing, Obama has gone on and on about this very topic and how he would have panels that would decide this sort of thing, "Live or Die or Take a Pill and Die Quietly and Cheaply". The left media pundits applauded this and the left itself stuffed ObamaCare down the nations collective throat. Which is also strange because the left is now hammering Perry on the HPV vaccine and such.

Gotta love it.


Soul Crusher

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Re: Audience at tea party debate cheers leaving uninsured to die
« Reply #22 on: September 14, 2011, 08:00:04 AM »
i thought you supposted LESS govt?

Do we need another bloated "department of really bad emergencies"?

You ever heard of fema?  lol

I want something that can be sold across state lines that is a catastrpophic plan.  right now - health policies cant be sold over state lines.   I dont want it to be a govt run program, there are plenty of ways to do this. 

The True Adonis

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Re: Audience at tea party debate cheers leaving uninsured to die
« Reply #23 on: September 14, 2011, 08:07:00 AM »
What they need to do is set up a national catastrophic plan of some sort that covers crazy shit, and let people pay out of pocket for the rest.   
333366,

You are making progress my friend.  A Single Payer system like this is exactly the Most Fiscally Conservative plan than any other and it prevents unnecessary deaths.  It is also the most moral thing to do.

Deicide

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Re: Audience at tea party debate cheers leaving uninsured to die
« Reply #24 on: September 14, 2011, 08:13:52 AM »
which is why we all need universal coverage.

Haha....great, you really know nothing about 'universal healthcare', just means universal waiting list...
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