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Author Topic: Supporters of 'Personhood Amendment' Make Case to Mississippi Voters  (Read 26334 times)
The True Adonis
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« Reply #275 on: April 13, 2017, 05:13:11 PM »

I actually agree with this, I wouldn't want someone i know to have an abortion unless their health was an issue but if you're for small government then its hard to see how you justify being against it.

I also think that men need to be equally represented in the process and not made to take a backseat. How you do that I don't know, forcing the women to pay the man if she has an abortion she wants and he doesn't...iono
I know how.  Allow either party to "opt out" before birth.  If the man does not want the baby, let him opt out with no penalty if she decides to have it.  If the man wants the baby and she does not, have him find a new girlfriend or wife. He should not be able to force her to have the baby unless she agrees and she can also opt out and pass the burden on him totally.  Pretty simple stuff really.
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Straw Man
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« Reply #276 on: April 13, 2017, 05:44:58 PM »

I know how.  Allow either party to "opt out" before birth.  If the man does not want the baby, let him opt out with no penalty if she decides to have it.  If the man wants the baby and she does not, have him find a new girlfriend or wife. He should not be able to force her to have the baby unless she agrees and she can also opt out and pass the burden on him totally.  Pretty simple stuff really.

This is one subject you and I agree on.
I've given McTones that simple and obvious answer ad nauseum.
He seems to just not understand that getting a woman pregnant does not convey ownership interest of her womb to the man.

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tonymctones
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« Reply #277 on: April 13, 2017, 07:19:04 PM »

I'm not educated on the subject of their accounting fucktard

I'm assuming you are since you made the claim that they don't keep separate accounts for their abortion services?

Is this one the many things you just assume and then state as a fact

Seems totally ridiculous to me that they wouldn't have every service they provide documented just like any other medical provider but since YOU made the claim how about you actually show some proof

Shit, haven't we been down this same road about a thousand times now
What % of planned parent hood comes from abortion services?
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tonymctones
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« Reply #278 on: April 13, 2017, 07:20:41 PM »

This is one subject you and I agree on.
I've given McTones that simple and obvious answer ad nauseum.
He seems to just not understand that getting a woman pregnant does not convey ownership interest of her womb to the man.


LMFAO no ive never said that, my point has always been that the women should have to pay the man if she doesn't want it and he does
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Straw Man
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« Reply #279 on: April 13, 2017, 07:27:20 PM »

LMFAO no ive never said that, my point has always been that the women should have to pay the man if she doesn't want it and he does

if she doesn't want it then she can get an abortion

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tonymctones
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« Reply #280 on: April 14, 2017, 06:49:41 AM »

if she doesn't want it then she can get an abortion


No you garner her paycheck just like they do for guys, how is this a difficult concept for you to grasp?
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« Reply #281 on: April 14, 2017, 09:44:03 AM »

No you garner her paycheck just like they do for guys, how is this a difficult concept for you to grasp?

Why would the "garner" her paycheck if she had an abortion

Seems you're still having a problem understanding that
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tonymctones
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« Reply #282 on: April 14, 2017, 01:43:57 PM »

Why would the "garner" her paycheck if she had an abortion

Seems you're still having a problem understanding that
If the man wanted the child and she chose not to keep it then yes
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« Reply #283 on: April 14, 2017, 01:46:04 PM »


we're talking about conception by rape

do you understand?

Is there any other kind?
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The True Adonis
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« Reply #284 on: April 14, 2017, 04:14:46 PM »

If the man wanted the child and she chose not to keep it then yes
Huh
LOL WTF?  That is some bizarre shit right there.
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« Reply #285 on: July 31, 2017, 08:32:06 PM »

As disgusting as his view is, logically he is right.  But they're both essentially infanticide. 

Univ. Chicago Prof Argues for Morality of Infanticide by Logic of Abortion Rights
by THOMAS D. WILLIAMS, PH.D.
25 Jul 2017

In a recent blogpost, University of Chicago Professor Jerry Coyne contends that if abortion is morally acceptable there is no reason to condemn infanticide.

If you are allowed to abort a fetus, Coyne argues, “then why aren’t you able to euthanize that same fetus just after it’s born?”

“I see no substantive difference that would make the former act moral and the latter immoral,” he writes.

Of course, Coyne adds qualifiers, speaking specifically of a child with “a severe genetic defect, microcephaly, spina bifida, or so on,” but the core of his logic does not depend on this. The fact remains, if one may abort a fetus for whatever the reason may be, then why not a newborn baby? The only thing that changes as far as the baby is concerned is her environment (mother’s womb or crib).

Atheist author Richard Dawkins has referred to Coyne’s work to bolster his claim that an unborn baby with Down syndrome should be aborted because it would be “immoral to bring it into the world.”

According to Coyne, who teaches in UC’s department of ecology and human evolution, killing an unborn fetus does not differ morally from killing a newborn infant, since their level of sentience and awareness of the world is virtually identical and interchangeable.

“After all,” he writes, “newborn babies aren’t aware of death, aren’t nearly as sentient as an older child or adult, and have no rational faculties to make judgments.”

The question then becomes, what motivation might justify the killing of an infant. Here Coyne states that it “makes little sense to keep alive a suffering child who is doomed to die or suffer life in a vegetative or horribly painful state.” Euthanasia by lethal injection is a better option, he proposes.

And yet one may well wonder why such an extreme situation is morally required in order to take the life of an infant. If one may legally abort a fetus up until childbirth for any reason whatsoever, why must there be a higher moral bar for justifying infanticide? Why aren’t parents or doctors morally justified in taking the life of an infant born into poverty, or as the child as a single teenager, or simply because the child has come at an inconvenient time?

According to Coyne’s logic, it should make no difference.

“It’s time to add to the discussion the euthanasia of newborns, who have no ability or faculties to decide whether to end their lives,” Coyne proposes. “Although discussing the topic seems verboten now, I believe some day the practice will be widespread, and it will be for the better.”

Although some people may find Coyne’s conclusions to be abhorrent, his basic logic is airtight. If we accept the moral justification for abortion, it makes no sense not to allow infanticide as well.

Which should lead right-thinking people to ask not whether infanticide might be a morally acceptable procedure, but whether abortion itself has any moral justification other than the logic of raw power over those unable to speak or defend themselves.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/07/25/univ-chicago-prof-argues-for-morality-of-infanticide-by-logic-of-abortion-rights/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social
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« Reply #286 on: August 04, 2017, 09:47:40 AM »

Life begins when your check is cashed on the filing fee for your Articles of Incorporation

 Grin

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« Reply #287 on: August 21, 2017, 11:03:12 AM »

"What kind of society do you want to live in?": Inside the country where Down syndrome is disappearing
By JULIAN QUINONES, ARIJETA LAJKA CBS NEWS
August 14, 2017

"CBSN: On Assignment" airs Mondays at 10 p.m. ET/PT on CBS and on our streaming network, CBSN. Explore more on this topic in our "Behind the Lens" report.

With the rise of prenatal screening tests across Europe and the United States, the number of babies born with Down syndrome has significantly decreased, but few countries have come as close to eradicating Down syndrome births as Iceland.

Since prenatal screening tests were introduced in Iceland in the early 2000s, the vast majority of women -- close to 100 percent -- who received a positive test for Down syndrome terminated their pregnancy.

While the tests are optional, the government states that all expectant mothers must be informed about availability of screening tests, which reveal the likelihood of a child being born with Down syndrome. Around 80 to 85 percent of pregnant women choose to take the prenatal screening test, according to Landspitali University Hospital in Reykjavik.

"CBSN: On Assignment" headed to Iceland with CBS News correspondent Elaine Quijano to investigate what's factoring into the high termination rates.

Using an ultrasound, blood test and the mother's age, the test, called the Combination Test, determines whether the fetus will have a chromosome abnormality,  the most common of which results in Down syndrome. Children born with this genetic disorder have distinctive facial issues and a range of developmental issues. Many people born with Down syndrome can live full, healthy lives, with an average lifespan of around 60 years.

Other countries aren't lagging too far behind in Down syndrome termination rates. According to the most recent data available, the United States has an estimated termination rate for Down syndrome of 67 percent (1995-2011); in France it's 77 percent (2015); and Denmark, 98 percent (2015). The law in Iceland permits abortion after 16 weeks if the fetus has a deformity -- and Down syndrome is included in this category.

With a population of around 330,000, Iceland has on average just one or two children born with Down syndrome per year, sometimes after their parents received inaccurate test results. (In the U.S., according to the National Down Syndrome Society, about 6,000 babies with Down syndrome are born each year.)

"Babies with Down syndrome are still being born in Iceland," said Hulda Hjartardottir, head of the Prenatal Diagnosis Unit at Landspitali University Hospital, where around 70 percent of Icelandic children are born. "Some of them were low risk in our screening test, so we didn't find them in our screening."

When Thordis Ingadottir was pregnant with her third child at the age of 40, she took the screening test. The results showed her chances of having a child with Down syndrome were very slim, odds of 1 in 1,600. However, the screening test is only 85 percent accurate. That year, 2009, three babies were born with Down syndrome in Iceland, including Ingadottir's daughter Agusta, who is now 7.

According to Ingadottir, three babies born with Down syndrome is "quite more than usual. Normally there are two, in the last few years." Since the birth of her daughter, Ingadottir has become an activist for the rights of people with Down syndrome.

As Agusta grows up, "I will hope that she will be fully integrated on her own terms in this society. That's my dream," Ingadottir said. "Isn't that the basic needs of life? What kind of society do you want to live in?"

Geneticist Kari Stefansson is the founder of deCODE Genetics, a company that has studied nearly the entire Icelandic population's genomes. He has a unique perspective on the advancement of medical technology. "My understanding is that we have basically eradicated, almost, Down syndrome from our society -- that there is hardly ever a child with Down syndrome in Iceland anymore," he said.

Quijano asked Stefansson, "What does the 100 percent termination rate, you think, reflect about Icelandic society?"

"It reflects a relatively heavy-handed genetic counseling," he said. "And I don't think that heavy-handed genetic counseling is desirable. … You're having impact on decisions that are not medical, in a way."

Stefansson noted, "I don't think there's anything wrong with aspiring to have healthy children, but how far we should go in seeking those goals is a fairly complicated decision."

According to Hjartardottir, "We try to do as neutral counseling as possible, but some people would say that just offering the test is pointing you towards a certain direction." Indeed, more than 4 out of 5 pregnant women in Iceland opt for the prenatal screening test.

For expectant mother Bergthori Einarsdottir, who chose to have the test, knowing that most women did so helped steer her decision. "It was not pressure,  but they told me that most women did it," she said. "It did affect me maybe a little bit."

Over at Landspitali University Hospital, Helga Sol Olafsdottir counsels women who have a pregnancy with a chromosomal abnormality. They speak to her when deciding whether to continue or end their pregnancies. Olafsdottir tells women who are wrestling with the decision or feelings of guilt: "This is your life — you have the right to choose how your life will look like."

She showed Quijano a prayer card inscribed with the date and tiny footprints of a fetus that was terminated.

Quijano noted, "In America, I think some people would be confused about people calling this 'our child,' saying a prayer or saying goodbye or having a priest come in -- because to them abortion is murder."

Olafsdottir responded, "We don't look at abortion as a murder. We look at it as a thing that we ended. We ended a possible life that may have had a huge complication... preventing suffering for the child and for the family. And I think that is more right than seeing it as a murder -- that's so black and white. Life isn't black and white. Life is grey."

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/down-syndrome-iceland/
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« Reply #288 on: August 21, 2017, 11:04:53 AM »

Oregon abortion law funds procedures for illegal immigrants
By Paulina Dedaj
Published August 17, 2017
Fox News
 
Oregon has passed the nation’s most progressive abortion bill, requiring state insurers to provide free abortions for all, including illegal immigrants.

Gov. Kate Brown, a Democrat, signed the historic health bill Tuesday, after the Legislature approved it in July. It would require Oregon insurance companies to cover reproductive procedures, all on the taxpayers' dime.

The $10.2 million bill takes effect immediately, allocating $500,000 for abortions for the estimated 22,873 women eligible under the Oregon health plan, the Washington Times reported. This will include abortions for immigrants who are otherwise ineligible under the state’s Medicaid program.

Opponents argued that the bill will force people who morally object to abortions to assume some of the costs. They also predicted that lawsuits will quickly follow, arguing that the new law violates the Weldon Amendment, a 2004 congressional provision that prohibits Health and Human Services funds for states that discriminate against health care providers that refuse to cover abortions, the Washington Times further reported.

Providence Health Care, a nonprofit Catholic health care provider that is also the only insurer operating in Oregon that does not cover abortions, will have its expenses reimbursed by the state.

Two other states, California and New York, also require state insurers to cover abortion.

The Associated Press contributed to this report.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/08/17/oregon-abortion-law-funds-procedures-for-illegal-immigrants.html
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« Reply #289 on: August 21, 2017, 11:27:42 AM »

Oregon abortion law funds procedures for illegal immigrants
By Paulina Dedaj
Published August 17, 2017
Fox News
 
Oregon has passed the nation’s most progressive abortion bill, requiring state insurers to provide free abortions for all, including illegal immigrants.

Gov. Kate Brown, a Democrat, signed the historic health bill Tuesday, after the Legislature approved it in July. It would require Oregon insurance companies to cover reproductive procedures, all on the taxpayers' dime.

The $10.2 million bill takes effect immediately, allocating $500,000 for abortions for the estimated 22,873 women eligible under the Oregon health plan, the Washington Times reported. This will include abortions for immigrants who are otherwise ineligible under the state’s Medicaid program.

Opponents argued that the bill will force people who morally object to abortions to assume some of the costs. They also predicted that lawsuits will quickly follow, arguing that the new law violates the Weldon Amendment, a 2004 congressional provision that prohibits Health and Human Services funds for states that discriminate against health care providers that refuse to cover abortions, the Washington Times further reported.

Providence Health Care, a nonprofit Catholic health care provider that is also the only insurer operating in Oregon that does not cover abortions, will have its expenses reimbursed by the state.

Two other states, California and New York, also require state insurers to cover abortion.

The Associated Press contributed to this report.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/08/17/oregon-abortion-law-funds-procedures-for-illegal-immigrants.html

Free abortions for all

This is great news !!!

Thanks for posting Bum
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« Reply #290 on: September 06, 2017, 03:41:35 PM »

India Supreme Court Allows 13yo to Abort 32-Week Pregnancy
By Solange Reyner   |   Wednesday, 06 Sep 2017

A 13-year-old girl who said she was raped by her father's colleague has received permission from the Supreme Court of India to terminate her 32-week pregnancy, the BBC reported Wednesday.

The court had rejected a similar petition by a 10-year-old girl several weeks earlier, as India law does not allow abortions past 20 weeks of pregnancy. The 13-year-old girl's pregnancy was detected at 27 weeks after her parents took her to her doctor for obesity treatments.

"This is a pathbreaking judgment by the Supreme Court," Nikhil Datar, the Mumbai-based gynecologist who discovered the pregnancy, told Reuters.

"I hope the Supreme Court now gives directions to the government to make amendments to India's abortion law."

Child sexual abuse is a major problem in India, with one in every two children reported as victims, according to a survey conducted by humanitarian aid organization World Vision India that surveyed 45,844 respondents. One in five respondents said they do not feel safe because of the fear of being sexually abused.

"Despite one in every two children being a victim of child sexual abuse, there continues to be a huge silence," World Vision India National Director Cherian Thomas said recently in India. "The magnitude of sexual violence against children is unknown."

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/india-child-abuse-sexual-abuse-rape/2017/09/06/id/812059/
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Dos Equis
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« Reply #291 on: September 08, 2017, 10:23:16 AM »

Cecile Richards on DACA: 'Every Person Has a Right to Live'
Lauretta  Brown Lauretta Brown |Posted: Sep 06, 2017

Cecile Richards, President of Planned Parenthood, sent out a fundraising email Tuesday about President Trump’s decision to end the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) program which allows certain immigrants, who had arrived in the country illegally as minors, the ability to remain without risk of deportation.

The abortion giant’s leader said, “here at Planned Parenthood, we firmly believe that every person has the right to live, work, and raise a family freely and without the threat of deportation or separation.”

Many on Twitter pointed out the irony of the language Richards chose, since those in the pro-life movement emphasize the unborn child’s “right to live.”

 Follow
Heritage Foundation ✔ @Heritage
Well, not *everyone.* https://twitter.com/kgscanlon/status/905167867280326656
10:46 AM - Sep 5, 2017
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Twitter Ads info and privacy

Erielle Davidson ✔ @politicalelle
Irony is dead. https://twitter.com/kgscanlon/status/905167867280326656
8:54 PM - Sep 5, 2017
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5 Sep
Kate Scanlon  ✔ @kgscanlon
Planned Parenthood fundraising email: “We firmly believe that every person has the right to live” pic.twitter.com/yLwEhiufaK

Cameron Gray ✔ @Cameron_Gray
And PETA just endorsed bacon
10:42 AM - Sep 5, 2017
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5 Sep
Kate Scanlon  ✔ @kgscanlon
Planned Parenthood fundraising email: “We firmly believe that every person has the right to live” pic.twitter.com/yLwEhiufaK

Steve Ahlers @Steve_Ahlers
Sounds like PP is making a strong case against PP.
12:23 PM - Sep 5, 2017
 Replies   9 9 Retweets   89 89 likes

Richards also said in the email that Trump’s decision to end DACA was “an attack that will leave 800,000 young people who have grown up in this country at risk of deportation, including members of the Planned Parenthood community.”

“I’m infuriated,” she said. “I’m heartbroken. But I’m sure about one thing: Planned Parenthood stands with DREAMers, the young people in this community who are the future of this country.”

She added that DACA “has helped so many young DREAMers access health care, get driver’s licenses, receive an education, and work to provide for their families — and without DACA, their fate and ability to remain in this country is unknown.”

Richards did not talk about every person’s “right to live” in the official Planned Parenthood press release on the DACA decision but called the decision one that “will rip millions of families apart and do irreparable harm to communities that already face discrimination and barriers to accessing health care in this country.”

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/laurettabrown/2017/09/06/cecile-richards-on-daca-every-person-has-a-right-to-live-n2377769
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« Reply #292 on: October 04, 2017, 01:26:36 PM »

Illinois GOP Gov. Rauner faces conservative fury for expanding taxpayer-funded abortions
Fox News

Illinois GOP Gov. Bruce Rauner’s decision to expand taxpayer-funded abortions has sparked outrage from state and congressional Republicans who say he flip-flopped on the issue and are now hinting at a primary challenge.

The backlash built last week after the first-term governor signed a bill allowing state health insurance and Medicaid coverage for abortions. It spread this week to Capitol Hill, where the state's entire House Republican delegation blasted the decision.

“In a reversal of long-standing Illinois policy, Governor Rauner has let down Illinois taxpayers and the unborn by signing” the state bill, GOP Reps. Peter Roskam, John Shimkus, Randy Hultgren, Rodney Davis, Adam Kinzinger, Darin LaHood and Mike Bost said in a statement.

Republican sits down with Bret Baier to discuss illegal immigration policy, state budget crisis on 'Special Report'Video
Illinois Gov. Rauner talks Chicago's sanctuary city fight

The lawmakers issued the statement Tuesday, the same day they and other Republicans in the GOP-controlled House voted overwhelmingly to impose criminal penalties on anybody who performs or attempts to perform an abortion on a fetus after 20 weeks -- with exceptions for incest, rape and saving the mother’s life.

HOUSE PASSES 20-WEEK ABORTION BAN

The pushback from state Republicans to the governor's decision was more immediate and visceral. Illinois state GOP Rep. Peter Breen argued that Rauner, in signing the bill, double-crossed voters, GOP state legislators and even Chicago's Cardinal Blasé Cupich. Rauner reportedly had pledged earlier to oppose the measure.

“I mean, you lied to a priest,” Breen told a local radio station. “This guy is done.”

'Governor Rauner has let down Illinois taxpayers and the unborn.'
- Statement from Illinois' U.S. House Republicans
Breen said the bill signing was “the straw, for me, that broke the camel’s back” and claimed it has badly damaged Rauner’s credibility and political future.

He also suggested a Rauner primary challenge in 2018 was “inevitable” but that he doesn’t plan to mount one, in liberal-leaning Illinois.

State Rep. Jeanne Ives said she “wouldn’t rule out” running against Rauner, who is seeking a second term, according to Politico.

Rauner campaign spokeswoman Kirsten Kukowski issued a statement saying voters know Rauner "is leading the effort to overcome [Speaker] Mike Madigan's political machine and deliver more jobs, better results for taxpayers and term limits."

Rauner, a former venture capitalist with a massive reelection war chest, also upset conservative and other critics in August when he signed a plan that limits the role local and state police play in cooperating with federal immigration authorities.

And in July, the Democratic-controlled General Assembly overrode his gubernatorial veto to allow a multibillion-dollar tax increase, further upsetting conservative critics .

The Associated Press contributed to this report.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/10/04/illinois-gop-gov-rauner-faces-conservative-backlash-for-signing-abortion-law.html
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« Reply #293 on: October 17, 2017, 11:39:03 AM »

Late-Term Abortion Clinic Opens Its Doors In Maryland
GRACE CARR
Reporter
10/17/2017

Wildwood Medical Center in Bethesda, Md., opened a new late-term abortion clinic on Tuesday.

Pro-life protesters are expected to make an appearance at the abortion clinic, especially given the fact that it will administer what it deems as “advanced gestation abortion” per it’s website description. The website also lists nearby hotels that women coming to get late-term abortions can stay at before and after their procedure.

The Maryland Coalition for Life indicated it will hold a prayer vigil at the clinic at 6:30 p.m. on Tuesday, according to Bethesda Magazine. The Maryland Coalition for Life had a contract to purchase the building, according to The Washington Post, but lost the space after a separate management company leased the building directly to AbortionClinic.org.

The clinic lists its abortion services, which include the medical abortion pill, first trimester surgical abortions, second trimester multi-day abortions, induction abortions, maternal/fetal indication abortions, and self-induced abortions.

Women who have gotten abortions at Nebraska’s clinic described some of their experiences on the website. “Thank you for helping women like myself get a second chance. Allowing us to have a CHOICE,” wrote one woman. “You’re not alone. Life throws us curve balls sometimes, but bad times don’t last forever. So swing and hope for your homerun ladies!” wrote another.

“They genuinely care about each and every person that walks through those doors … and they actually completely took my mind off the fact that I’m here!” wrote a third.

AbortionClinics.org operates one other clinic in Bellevue, Neb.

http://dailycaller.com/2017/10/17/late-term-abortion-clinic-opens-it-doors-in-maryland/
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« Reply #294 on: October 17, 2017, 12:55:24 PM »

"What kind of society do you want to live in?": Inside the country where Down syndrome is disappearing
By JULIAN QUINONES, ARIJETA LAJKA CBS NEWS
August 14, 2017

"CBSN: On Assignment" airs Mondays at 10 p.m. ET/PT on CBS and on our streaming network, CBSN. Explore more on this topic in our "Behind the Lens" report.

With the rise of prenatal screening tests across Europe and the United States, the number of babies born with Down syndrome has significantly decreased, but few countries have come as close to eradicating Down syndrome births as Iceland.

Since prenatal screening tests were introduced in Iceland in the early 2000s, the vast majority of women -- close to 100 percent -- who received a positive test for Down syndrome terminated their pregnancy.

While the tests are optional, the government states that all expectant mothers must be informed about availability of screening tests, which reveal the likelihood of a child being born with Down syndrome. Around 80 to 85 percent of pregnant women choose to take the prenatal screening test, according to Landspitali University Hospital in Reykjavik.

"CBSN: On Assignment" headed to Iceland with CBS News correspondent Elaine Quijano to investigate what's factoring into the high termination rates.

Using an ultrasound, blood test and the mother's age, the test, called the Combination Test, determines whether the fetus will have a chromosome abnormality,  the most common of which results in Down syndrome. Children born with this genetic disorder have distinctive facial issues and a range of developmental issues. Many people born with Down syndrome can live full, healthy lives, with an average lifespan of around 60 years.

Other countries aren't lagging too far behind in Down syndrome termination rates. According to the most recent data available, the United States has an estimated termination rate for Down syndrome of 67 percent (1995-2011); in France it's 77 percent (2015); and Denmark, 98 percent (2015). The law in Iceland permits abortion after 16 weeks if the fetus has a deformity -- and Down syndrome is included in this category.

With a population of around 330,000, Iceland has on average just one or two children born with Down syndrome per year, sometimes after their parents received inaccurate test results. (In the U.S., according to the National Down Syndrome Society, about 6,000 babies with Down syndrome are born each year.)

"Babies with Down syndrome are still being born in Iceland," said Hulda Hjartardottir, head of the Prenatal Diagnosis Unit at Landspitali University Hospital, where around 70 percent of Icelandic children are born. "Some of them were low risk in our screening test, so we didn't find them in our screening."

When Thordis Ingadottir was pregnant with her third child at the age of 40, she took the screening test. The results showed her chances of having a child with Down syndrome were very slim, odds of 1 in 1,600. However, the screening test is only 85 percent accurate. That year, 2009, three babies were born with Down syndrome in Iceland, including Ingadottir's daughter Agusta, who is now 7.

According to Ingadottir, three babies born with Down syndrome is "quite more than usual. Normally there are two, in the last few years." Since the birth of her daughter, Ingadottir has become an activist for the rights of people with Down syndrome.

As Agusta grows up, "I will hope that she will be fully integrated on her own terms in this society. That's my dream," Ingadottir said. "Isn't that the basic needs of life? What kind of society do you want to live in?"

Geneticist Kari Stefansson is the founder of deCODE Genetics, a company that has studied nearly the entire Icelandic population's genomes. He has a unique perspective on the advancement of medical technology. "My understanding is that we have basically eradicated, almost, Down syndrome from our society -- that there is hardly ever a child with Down syndrome in Iceland anymore," he said.

Quijano asked Stefansson, "What does the 100 percent termination rate, you think, reflect about Icelandic society?"

"It reflects a relatively heavy-handed genetic counseling," he said. "And I don't think that heavy-handed genetic counseling is desirable. … You're having impact on decisions that are not medical, in a way."

Stefansson noted, "I don't think there's anything wrong with aspiring to have healthy children, but how far we should go in seeking those goals is a fairly complicated decision."

According to Hjartardottir, "We try to do as neutral counseling as possible, but some people would say that just offering the test is pointing you towards a certain direction." Indeed, more than 4 out of 5 pregnant women in Iceland opt for the prenatal screening test.

For expectant mother Bergthori Einarsdottir, who chose to have the test, knowing that most women did so helped steer her decision. "It was not pressure,  but they told me that most women did it," she said. "It did affect me maybe a little bit."

Over at Landspitali University Hospital, Helga Sol Olafsdottir counsels women who have a pregnancy with a chromosomal abnormality. They speak to her when deciding whether to continue or end their pregnancies. Olafsdottir tells women who are wrestling with the decision or feelings of guilt: "This is your life — you have the right to choose how your life will look like."

She showed Quijano a prayer card inscribed with the date and tiny footprints of a fetus that was terminated.

Quijano noted, "In America, I think some people would be confused about people calling this 'our child,' saying a prayer or saying goodbye or having a priest come in -- because to them abortion is murder."

Olafsdottir responded, "We don't look at abortion as a murder. We look at it as a thing that we ended. We ended a possible life that may have had a huge complication... preventing suffering for the child and for the family. And I think that is more right than seeing it as a murder -- that's so black and white. Life isn't black and white. Life is grey."

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/down-syndrome-iceland/

Wow, this is sad.
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« Reply #295 on: October 20, 2017, 11:19:05 AM »

Left Using Illegal Immigrant To Push U.S.-Sponsored Abortions For Non-Citizens
At issue is whether the United States will expand its mission to ending the lives of preborn infants for all those who travel here illegally.
By Kristan Hawkins
OCTOBER 18, 2017

The story of a pregnant teenager, an illegal alien, has captured attention as the American Civil Liberties Union and abortion industry argue the United States should open its doors to all seeking abortion. Naturally, they believe that U.S. taxpayers ultimately should pay for it.

At issue is whether the United States will expand its mission to ending the lives of preborn infants for all those who travel here illegally, whether the United States should become the home base of International Abortion Inc.

The Central American teen illegally entered the United States through Texas, where state officials placed her in a private facility contracted by the Department of Health and Human Services Office of Refugee Resettlement. According to reports, the girl said she sought an abortion because she was worried her parents might abuse her if they found out she was pregnant.

Because Texas law requires either parental or judicial signoff for an underage girl seeking an abortion, attorneys intervened to get a judge’s permission. However, Texas officials refused to allow the girl to be taken from state care to an abortion facility. Instead, they arranged for the young girl to talk with pregnancy care center volunteers to let her know her options were more than the death of her unborn child.

Do Foreigners Have a Right to U.S. Abortions?
Courageously, Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton weighed in on the case in an amicus brief, noting “(n)o federal court has ever declared that unlawfully-present aliens with no substantial ties to this country have a constitutional right to abortion on demand. The Court should decline to break that new ground.”

The establishment of some of universal right to abortion would add a whole new income stream for the abortion industry and new taxpayer burden, even before we consider the morality of becoming a destination for worldwide abortion. Attorneys general of Louisiana, Missouri, Nebraska, Ohio, Oklahoma, and South Carolina joined Paxton in opposing this unprecedented expansion of abortion.

Lost in this conflict is a discussion of how best to help this young girl. A real person behind the headlines needs care and guidance, not abortion. It’s a tragedy that the abortion industry will use this young girl to try and create a “safe haven” for abortion in the United States rather than trying to empower her future and the future of her unborn child.

The ACLU is not only seizing on this opportunity to push for expanded abortion access, it also wants to add the girl to a current lawsuit against the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, even though they are not the caretakers for the teenager. Faith-based organizations are, however, on the forefront of care for immigrants.

Rather than embracing this long-term partnership between people of faith and immigrants in need, the ACLU wants to strip organizations like the Catholic bishops of federal funding for refugee and immigrant aid because they refuse to allow refugees and immigrants in their care to procure abortions due to church teaching on abortion. It is of course this respect for the dignity of human life that informs both the church’s role in resettling refugees and immigrants and its role in opposing abortion.

The Ultimate Goal: An International Jane Roe
Fundamentally, the ACLU and the lucrative abortion industry want to turn this teenager into an international Jane Roe, to create new court-mandated Roe v. Wade of sorts, requiring that U.S. taxpayers and governments facilitate the abortions of all who happen to be in the United States

​Now, the billion-dollar abortion industry could donate their “services” or fundraise to pay for international abortions. Instead, their consistent push is to “show them the money.” While they are fundraising from this case, claiming some monies will go to the girl, in fact, a so-called “right” to abortion for illegal aliens will result in major bills for U.S. taxpayers on behalf of non-citizens. As Paxton wrote in his brief: “Granting Plaintiffs’ motion for a TRO and preliminary injunction would create a right to abortion for anyone on Earth who entered the United States illegally, no matter how briefly. And with that right, countless others undoubtedly would follow.”

There are many great reasons to immigrate to the United States, but abortion should not be one of them. Shame on the ACLU and abortion industry for putting the future of a teenager in a virtual tug-of-war in court as a ploy to get their hands on even more money.

https://thefederalist.com/2017/10/18/left-using-illegal-immigrant-push-u-s-sponsored-abortions-non-citizens/
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