When people use Masteron/Winny for "lean bulking" courses....

[Rickyboy]

Are these people on a calorie surplus or deficit? If a surplus then what use is Winstrol/Masteron when "lean bulking"? And surely a calorie surplus is always necessary when bulking even when using gear?

[tlc]

Are these people on a calorie surplus or deficit?

Depends what they want, but it doesn't have to be one or the other. There's a fairly broad area where you're eating enough calories not to be burning bodyfat, but not so much that you're adding it.

If a surplus then what use is Winstrol/Masteron when "lean bulking"?

Masteron is an anti-estrogen, reduces water bloat, is anabolic in its own right, can reduce PIP from other substances... winstrol I've never liked the sound of so never used it.

And surely a calorie surplus is always necessary when bulking even when using gear?

Absolutely not. See first point. Anyone who tells you you need to get fatter to grow muscle is an idiot. Probably a fat idiot.

[local hero]

you do need to actually eat in order to grow tho, gear or not!

[nosleep]

YOU JUST USE DRUGS THAT KEEP YOU LEANER WHEN YOU WANT TO EAT MORE AND/OR USE DRUGS THAT MAKE YOU HUNGRIER THEN YOU JUST FEED THE APPETITE.

[Rickyboy]

Depends what they want, but it doesn't have to be one or the other. There's a fairly broad area where you're eating enough calories not to be burning bodyfat, but not so much that you're adding it.
Masteron is an anti-estrogen, reduces water bloat, is anabolic in its own right, can reduce PIP from other substances... winstrol I've never liked the sound of so never used it.

Absolutely not. See first point. Anyone who tells you you need to get fatter to grow muscle is an idiot. Probably a fat idiot.

[/b]

But surely to gain weight you need to be taking in more calories than you are burning up?

[tlc]

But surely to gain weight you need to be taking in more calories than you are burning up?

You need to be taking in enough calories to provide the energy needed for building muscle tissue, in addition to whatever calories you need to get through the day anyway, you don't need so many calories that you can no longer store them as glycogen and start converting them to fat instead. So yes you need to eat more, but if you're getting fatter you're eating too much.

[Arnold jr]

You need to be taking in enough calories to provide the energy needed for building muscle tissue, in addition to whatever calories you need to get through the day anyway, you don't need so many calories that you can no longer store them as glycogen and start converting them to fat instead. So yes you need to eat more, but if you're getting fatter you're eating too much.

Very true but getting most to understand this is like trying to light water on fire.

[Arnold jr]

Are these people on a calorie surplus or deficit? If a surplus then what use is Winstrol/Masteron when "lean bulking"? And surely a calorie surplus is always necessary when bulking even when using gear?

Both are poor choices for off-season growth. Winstrol can have a positive affect due to the manner by-which it lowers SHBG thereby creating some synergy with other hormones and even a slight solidifying effect but we're not talking about a large degree.

The only steroids that are truly worthwhile during the off-season in-terms of growth are test, deca, tren, dbol and anadrol. IMO those are the only ones anyone really ever needs and I do mean anyone.

[Rickyboy]

Both are poor choices for off-season growth. Winstrol can have a positive affect due to the manner by-which it lowers SHBG thereby creating some synergy with other hormones and even a slight solidifying effect but we're not talking about a large degree.

The only steroids that are truly worthwhile during the off-season in-terms of growth are test, deca, tren, dbol and anadrol. IMO those are the only ones anyone really ever needs and I do mean anyone.

I have no plans to compete but I want lean quality gains, no bloat....was thinking of Sus and Winny....

[Arnold jr]

I have no plans to compete but I want lean quality gains, no bloat....was thinking of Sus and Winny....

I'm not a huge fan of Sust just because I think it's pointless but it'll do just as well as Test-e or cyp...you shouldn't really bloat anymore or less because of it. Winny, I still say it's a poor choice for muscle tissue gains. Anyway, bloat is so easy to control, so freakin easy but most are just too lazy to.

[hangclean]

Depends what they want, but it doesn't have to be one or the other. There's a fairly broad area where you're eating enough calories not to be burning bodyfat, but not so much that you're adding it.
Masteron is an anti-estrogen, reduces water bloat, is anabolic in its own right, can reduce PIP from other substances... winstrol I've never liked the sound of so never used it.

Absolutely not. See first point. Anyone who tells you you need to get fatter to grow muscle is an idiot. Probably a fat idiot.

legit masteron will not reduce any PIP from other substances,  unless it's the enanthate version.  The only thing that will reduce the pain of other injecctions is equipoise.

[Rickyboy]

I'm not a huge fan of Sust just because I think it's pointless but it'll do just as well as Test-e or cyp...you shouldn't really bloat anymore or less because of it. Winny, I still say it's a poor choice for muscle tissue gains. Anyway, bloat is so easy to control, so freakin easy but most are just too lazy to.

To control bloat we are talking about having a clean diet right?

[Arnold jr]

To control bloat we are talking about having a clean diet right?

Clean diet definitely helps, so do aromatase inhibitors. AI's can help tremendously but the biggest reason most people bloat is because they eat to bloat....even if it's clean if you're eating more carbs than you actually need you're going to bloat, especially when you add in AAS.

Like I mentioned in another thread, I've taken 100mg of Dianabol a day with no noticeable bloating...no swollen face or anything like that. And then I've bloated to death on a mere 30mg of Dianabol but I was stuffing my face a lot more.

[Rickyboy]

Clean diet definitely helps, so do aromatase inhibitors. AI's can help tremendously but the biggest reason most people bloat is because they eat to bloat....even if it's clean if you're eating more carbs than you actually need you're going to bloat, especially when you add in AAS.

Like I mentioned in another thread, I've taken 100mg of Dianabol a day with no noticeable bloating...no swollen face or anything like that. And then I've bloated to death on a mere 30mg of Dianabol but I was stuffing my face a lot more.

So would Armidex help with bloat? I don't suffer from gyno and I don't want to add more chemicals if I don't have too....

[Arnold jr]

So would Armidex help with bloat? I don't suffer from gyno and I don't want to add more chemicals if I don't have too....

Yes it would and quite a bit. Bloat and Gyno are both caused by the buildup of estrogen and AI's will limit the conversion and even reduce.

[matrixgh]

I just dont understand why ppl choose winstrol over masteron, to different drugs cant compare, also how do they train on winny do they joints hurt?

[hangclean]

I just dont understand why ppl choose winstrol over masteron, to different drugs cant compare, also how do they train on winny do they joints hurt?

winstrol makes you strong as fuck, masteron does not.  The joint pain is not that bad on winstrol depending on what you are running with it..  ONe of the best stacks i ever used for strength was winstrol, npp and test.   My joints did not bother me at all.