Author Topic: Would a 97 Nasser win the 2011 Olympia?  (Read 37118 times)

Sherief Shalaby

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Re: Would a 97 Nasser win the 2011 Olympia?
« Reply #100 on: September 20, 2011, 11:52:51 AM »
It's not just about the structure, which doesn't really work against Phil much anyway. There's still the problem of the side and back poses where Phil beats Nasser handily. Overall, it's no contest.

nasser was not weak from the side and i always find this a stupid execuse to increase nasser weak points!!.. how to have great quad that looks great from the front but bad or flat from the side.. or a massive chest that looks thick from the front but thin or whatever from the side!!.. no logic..

NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Would a 97 Nasser win the 2011 Olympia?
« Reply #101 on: September 20, 2011, 12:00:25 PM »
nasser was not weak from the side and i always find this a stupid execuse to increase nasser weak points!!.. how to have great quad that looks great from the front but bad or flat from the side.. or a massive chest that looks thick from the front but thin or whatever from the side!!.. no logic..

He wasn't the same dominate force from the side as he was from the front , you don;t thick his lacking thickness in the back can't be seen from the side too? and maybe if he learned how to pose as well

Sherief Shalaby

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Re: Would a 97 Nasser win the 2011 Olympia?
« Reply #102 on: September 20, 2011, 12:03:25 PM »
Nasser's back sucked , it sucked on almost every level it has nothing to do with not liking him , he gets credit where credit is due but he gets none for his back

the only thing his back was wide , but it wasn't wider enough for a 285 pound bodybuilder


Start at the top , upper back development traps , his traps were pretty big not on par with Yates or as big and as thick ( when viewed from the back ) as they needed to be for a 285lb guy , they didn't show much depth and separation from the other muscles


Mid-back , teres and infraspinatus , again no depth or great separation between these muscles and no clear-cut separation from the lower-traps ( in the back double biceps shot ) not as thick as they need to be either

Lats , Nasser's lats are flawed because they are high and they almost disappear in the back double biceps shot , they're not in any way shape or form thick enough for a guy his size and weight , they don't match the size of his other parts ( proportion & balance ) and show NO striations or details what so ever , along with no clear distinct sepration from the teres and infraspinatus

Lower back? what lower back? he has no spinal erectors no striated x-mass tree , he pulls his arms back to highlight his lower back detail that doesn't exist

His back as a whole sucks for all of those reasons , he knew it and everyone else did , it cost him the Olympia , his back disappeared from the rear and made him look a lot smaller , his back was not proportionate to the rest of his physique , he was like two different bodybuilders from the front & back


the top pic clearly illustrates everything I just typed

yes and on the other hand we have dorian who was well balanced with his arms/shoulders/chest small for his back and his quads small for his calves ::)

Bam-bam

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Re: Would a 97 Nasser win the 2011 Olympia?
« Reply #103 on: September 20, 2011, 12:05:31 PM »
He wasn't the same dominate force from the side as he was from the front , you don;t thick his lacking thickness in the back can't be seen from the side too? and maybe if he learned how to pose as well


lots of schmoes heads in there

NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Would a 97 Nasser win the 2011 Olympia?
« Reply #104 on: September 20, 2011, 12:07:52 PM »
yes and on the other hand we have dorian who was well balanced with his arms/shoulders/chest small for his back and his quads small for his calves ::)

Says you but we already established you don't know much  :D

but again having a missing back is much more of a liability

NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Would a 97 Nasser win the 2011 Olympia?
« Reply #105 on: September 20, 2011, 12:17:21 PM »
When the two were compared , Nasser took the front double biceps and abs-and-thighs poses , but as soon as they turned to the side , Dorian's greater development , thickness and detail overshadowed Nasser , and when the champion's back came into play , it was all over. But Yates' overall superiority was only apparent in six comparisons ( three in the relaxed round , and three in the muscularity round ) that he and El Sonbaty were involved in , which accounted for about eight minutes of the two-hour prejudging. Head-to-toe , and when all the angles had been considered , Yates was the clear winner

Yates the clear winner 1997  ;D


apply85

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Re: Would a 97 Nasser win the 2011 Olympia?
« Reply #106 on: September 20, 2011, 12:24:27 PM »
nd, you are saying nasser's back was trash and then posting pics where his back looks great, can't tell if serious

bigbobs

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Re: Would a 97 Nasser win the 2011 Olympia?
« Reply #107 on: September 20, 2011, 12:50:57 PM »
Holy shit ND stop beating my man Nasser. Yes he had his flaws. Dorian had too, like in his later years no arms, horrible delt delevopment (I remember once a guy posting here some comparison pics from the 95 or 96 Olympia side by side Kevrone SMOKING Dorian in the shoulders deparment) and a huge gut and he always looked kinda of flat on the Olympia stage.

ND has historically taken the position that judging decisions are flawless and always correct

Therefore to avoid contradicting himself he must "back into" judges' decisions and will therefore always argue that the decision was fair.  Had the judges crowned Nasser in 97 he would be debating right now how Nasser was the fair winner, Dorian had too many flaws in 97, etc.

NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Would a 97 Nasser win the 2011 Olympia?
« Reply #108 on: September 20, 2011, 01:45:42 PM »
ND has historically taken the position that judging decisions are flawless and always correct

Therefore to avoid contradicting himself he must "back into" judges' decisions and will therefore always argue that the decision was fair.  Had the judges crowned Nasser in 97 he would be debating right now how Nasser was the fair winner, Dorian had too many flaws in 97, etc.

Don't presume to speak for me , I've taken the position that the judging most of the time if accurate & correct even when the guy I like doesn't win. You on the other hand are basing everything off of emotion and bias and ignorance seeing you don't even know how contests are judged.

And lets not forget I just gave a very detailed and accurate explanation why in part Nasser lost in 1997. Out of the two of us I'm less biased , more informed and less emotional. I've admitted Dorian lost in some poses ( in 1997 ) I explained how he won with a perfect score , I showed how Nasser wasn't the same imposing force from the side and back.

You guys have the outcome and now are trying every fit and possible combination to make him something more than what he was , I've heard excuses from racism , to pay-offs , to politics , to homosexual favors , etc. You just seriously understated his piss-poor back and I seriously explained with a detailed analysis and photos how and why your position is inaccurate , it's this type of belief that prevents you from seeing the reality of the situation, Nasser simply wasn't as good as you think he is , which is why guys who weighs 80lbs less than him could beat him , why he wasn't that successful as a competitive professional , why he could be beaten by a career worse Dorian.

Nasser was a fantastic bodybuilder from the front , a good one from the side and terrible one from the back , his competitive record verifies this , he did well for himself despite his flaws but when push comes to shove there were many guys much better than him and yes even Dorian with a torn tricep , bicep

NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Would a 97 Nasser win the 2011 Olympia?
« Reply #109 on: September 20, 2011, 01:58:33 PM »
nd, you are saying nasser's back was trash and then posting pics where his back looks great, can't tell if serious

Hahahahaha there are no Nasser's back looks great pictures even in 1995 when it did show detail it still wasn't close to being great

This comparison illustrates my point precisely , in 1995 Nasser's back was showing very good detail , separation but lacks real thickness and width as well as size , fast forward to 1997 , his back is physically larger at the expense detail , separation and density , and still doesn't match the thickness of his other parts , he never had a great back even though it was better at one point it

second pic is him at a whopping 268lbs doing a rear latspread next to Vince Taylor who weighs considerably  less and judging by the comparison you'd barely know , Vince looks every bit as wide and as big , which brings us back to my point , he's stunning from the front a real contender and then is a completely different guy from the back

apply85

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Re: Would a 97 Nasser win the 2011 Olympia?
« Reply #110 on: September 20, 2011, 02:07:56 PM »
the top one is because of conditioning, the bottom one lighting, his back was fine, they had to make an excuse why dorian was winning, they say it's the back, that;s fine, you are blind

The Grim Lifter

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Re: Would a 97 Nasser win the 2011 Olympia?
« Reply #111 on: September 20, 2011, 02:11:01 PM »
gh15 says the quality today isn't like the 90's but you can say in the 90's Levrone and Ray never trained all year, Flex and Dillet were lazy, basically gh15 placed well because he put the effort in against guys who coasted on their genetics.

NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Would a 97 Nasser win the 2011 Olympia?
« Reply #112 on: September 20, 2011, 02:16:55 PM »
the top one is because of conditioning, the bottom one lighting, his back was fine, they had to make an excuse why dorian was winning, they say it's the back, that;s fine, you are blind

Conditioning? another one of Nasser's problems , looked hard as nails from the front and you guessed it from the back  :-\  and the lighting in the second pic? this is your excuse?  :-X and you have the audacity to claim I'm blind?  ::)

Nasser sucks from the back not just against Dorian but to almost everyone

hey look it's the lighting  :D

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Re: Would a 97 Nasser win the 2011 Olympia?
« Reply #113 on: September 20, 2011, 02:19:12 PM »
Heath pwns in every shot.

bigbobs

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Re: Would a 97 Nasser win the 2011 Olympia?
« Reply #114 on: September 20, 2011, 02:29:19 PM »
Conditioning? another one of Nasser's problems , looked hard as nails from the front and you guessed it from the back  :-\  and the lighting in the second pic? this is your excuse?  :-X and you have the audacity to claim I'm blind?  ::)

Nasser sucks from the back not just against Dorian but to almost everyone

hey look it's the lighting  :D

His back is less detailed than Wheeler's there, but is more massive.  Just like apply85, Sherief and I have been saying - his back isn't as bad as he got scrutinized for, and he did scrutinized for it more than others did for their flaws.

And why do you always make reference to bodyweight when comparing Nasser?  Since when has one of the judging criteria been size as a ratio of bodyweight?  Do they announce bodyweights of each and use that when judging - lower bodyweight (as an individual factor) giving an advantage?  The fact that you keep saying that just shows your bias.  Shawn Ray held his own against Dorian in many poses, and he weighed a lot less too.  You never bring that up.  When discussing Jay vs. Phil does anyone compare their bodyweights as part of the judging criteria?  Just shows your anti-Nasser bias when you keep bringing up his bodyweight in particular to dampen the argument "yeah his back is more massive here but he also weighs more so it should be" LOL.  Guess Ronnie Coleman in 2003 wasn't so impressive because one has to consider that he also weighed more than his competitors  ::)

And like I said, if Nasser was crowned the O in 97 you would be arguing that he was the fair winner, because all of your arguments are always based on your belief that contest results are perfect.

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Re: Would a 97 Nasser win the 2011 Olympia?
« Reply #115 on: September 20, 2011, 03:39:45 PM »
His back is less detailed than Wheeler's there, but is more massive.  Just like apply85, Sherief and I have been saying - his back isn't as bad as he got scrutinized for, and he did scrutinized for it more than others did for their flaws.

And why do you always make reference to bodyweight when comparing Nasser?  Since when has one of the judging criteria been size as a ratio of bodyweight?  Do they announce bodyweights of each and use that when judging - lower bodyweight (as an individual factor) giving an advantage?  The fact that you keep saying that just shows your bias.  Shawn Ray held his own against Dorian in many poses, and he weighed a lot less too.  You never bring that up.  When discussing Jay vs. Phil does anyone compare their bodyweights as part of the judging criteria?  Just shows your anti-Nasser bias when you keep bringing up his bodyweight in particular to dampen the argument "yeah his back is more massive here but he also weighs more so it should be" LOL.  Guess Ronnie Coleman in 2003 wasn't so impressive because one has to consider that he also weighed more than his competitors  ::)

And like I said, if Nasser was crowned the O in 97 you would be arguing that he was the fair winner, because all of your arguments are always based on your belief that contest results are perfect.

Quote
His back is less detailed than Wheeler's there, but is more massive.  Just like apply85, Sherief and I have been saying - his back isn't as bad as he got scrutinized for, and he did scrutinized for it more than others did for their flaws.

It's more massive? it's supposed to be more massive he outweighs Flex by probably 60lbs and he's only 1" taller , more massive means , more fat , less dense muscle. his type of ' more massive ' isn't what the judges are looking for.

You can't seem to grasp how much of a MAJOR flaw this is , the back is one of the biggest muscle groups in the body and it's lacking severely , this isn't a torn bicep it's an entire missing back , until you can grasp this concept then you will always be scratching your head wondering why he never won

Quote
And why do you always make reference to bodyweight when comparing Nasser?  Since when has one of the judging criteria been size as a ratio of bodyweight?  Do they announce bodyweights of each and use that when judging - lower bodyweight (as an individual factor) giving an advantage?  The fact that you keep saying that just shows your bias.  Shawn Ray held his own against Dorian in many poses, and he weighed a lot less too.  You never bring that up.

Oh the irony of you of all people bitching about making reference to his bodyweight , Mr 300lbs with abs  ::) and I'll tell you exactly why I keep referencing his bodyweight , because it has to do with his back NOT being in proportion with the rest of his massive parts , when your rear latspread is as wide as a guy who is 60lbs lighter it's clearly highlighting why he's losing contests despite a clear advantage in PART of the judging criteria , muscular bulk

Muscular bulk is part of the judging criteria not bodyweight per sa , but conditioned muscular bulk , and Nasser's back was LACKING in this area severely which is why he lost more than won. And Shawn Ray held his own against Dorian in MANY poses?  ??? lol with your irrational train of thought I'm sure you believe this but Shawn got crushed utterly in almost every pose , in terms of muscular bulk AND density AND dryness AND balance AND proportion AND posing AND presentation , Shawn like Nasser was never ever close to Dorian , the ignorant lament to the contrary


Quote
When discussing Jay vs. Phil does anyone compare their bodyweights as part of the judging criteria?  Just shows your anti-Nasser bias when you keep bringing up his bodyweight in particular to dampen the argument "yeah his back is more massive here but he also weighs more so it should be" LOL.  Guess Ronnie Coleman in 2003 wasn't so impressive because one has to consider that he also weighed more than his competitors  ::)

Again the point isn't so much the weight , it's more to do with Nasser's lack of proportionate back in relation to the rest of his physique , weight is meaningless if it's not conditioned quality muscle , if weight were a great consideration Kovacs would be a multiple Mr Olympia winner.

Anti-Nasser bias? I posted a pic of him in the another thread in the ab-thigh from the 1995 Huston Pro at 268lbs , I said he has among the best ab-thighs of all-time and infinitely better than any pro competing today , is this anti-Nasser? of course not and why? because it's applicable , he sucks from the back and why? it's applicable. His back is supposed to be more massive than Flex and in that pic it's more massive per sa and soft as fuck and holding water it's NO ADVANTAGE at all , dry Nasser completely out like 1995 and his back would be even smaller , it's not a plus and it's the same reason he lost to Flex in that contest as he did to Dorian in 1997 , because he sucked from the back

Nasser was two different bodybuilders , Mr Olympia from the front , and Mr 12 weeks out from the back , his conditioning from the front was very good and soft as hell from the back , you will NEVER escape this fact



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Re: Would a 97 Nasser win the 2011 Olympia?
« Reply #116 on: September 20, 2011, 03:59:22 PM »
TeamGh15-snBatéFéLLa

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Re: Would a 97 Nasser win the 2011 Olympia?
« Reply #117 on: September 20, 2011, 04:46:16 PM »
Nasser's back was pathetic.....Bobs really shows his blind love for all things Nasser when he tries to argue that very obvious fact.

It wasn't that bad?

Yes it was

the_swami

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Re: Would a 97 Nasser win the 2011 Olympia?
« Reply #118 on: September 20, 2011, 07:32:39 PM »
This has been said many times b4 but i will point it out once again.

Nasser's back was huge, wide and thick, Nasser did not have a weak back.

in the RLS he is clearly beating Dorian.

the only pose where DOrian beat Nasser was the RDB, because Nasser did not have the hardness/seperation there as Dorian did.

All other mandatories Nasser owns Dorian.

the_swami

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Re: Would a 97 Nasser win the 2011 Olympia?
« Reply #119 on: September 20, 2011, 07:35:11 PM »
also  no one remembers that Flex, altho Flex has a great RDB with detail, his RLS was very weak

Flex's RLS had no width nor thickness

just see the 98 and 99 O comparisons for evidence of that

BayGBM

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Re: Would a 97 Nasser win the 2011 Olympia?
« Reply #120 on: September 20, 2011, 07:45:42 PM »
Both are tier 1!

Nasser is more schmoetastic!  But Heath has the better stage physique by far!

Sherief Shalaby

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Re: Would a 97 Nasser win the 2011 Olympia?
« Reply #121 on: September 20, 2011, 08:47:37 PM »
Holy shit ND stop beating my man Nasser. Yes he had his flaws. Dorian had too, like in his later years no arms, horrible delt delevopment (I remember once a guy posting here some comparison pics from the 95 or 96 Olympia side by side Kevrone SMOKING Dorian in the shoulders deparment) and a huge gut and he always looked kinda of flat on the Olympia stage.

yes it was me in these threads:

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=233097.0

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=243056.0

Mr.1derful

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Re: Would a 97 Nasser win the 2011 Olympia?
« Reply #122 on: September 20, 2011, 08:54:44 PM »
Nasser's arms already starting to look ridiculous in some of those shots. 

Palpatine Q

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Re: Would a 97 Nasser win the 2011 Olympia?
« Reply #123 on: September 20, 2011, 08:55:52 PM »
This has been said many times b4 but i will point it out once again.

Nasser's back was huge, wide and thick, Nasser did not have a weak back.

in the RLS he is clearly beating Dorian.

the only pose where DOrian beat Nasser was the RDB, because Nasser did not have the hardness/seperation there as Dorian did.

All other mandatories Nasser owns Dorian.

right  ::)

the entire Bodybuilding industry and community is wrong,and you, bobs and sherief are right  ::) ::)

Bam-bam

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Re: Would a 97 Nasser win the 2011 Olympia?
« Reply #124 on: September 20, 2011, 09:08:29 PM »
yes it was me in these threads:

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=233097.0

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=243056.0

haha good stuff man, in pic the effect is very clear in showing how much Dorians delts could be better!!



this guy would beat a prime ronnie easily!