Mark Cuban, Dallas Mavericks Owner: "The wealthy should pay lots of taxes"

[Straw Man]

does everybody see what i'm talking about here?  Straw man thinks that our tax system is not a progressive tax system and that it is skewed towards favoring the rich.  HE IS WRONG.  Period.  But all they have to do is say it.  And straw man will walk into the voting booth thinking that we do not have a progressive tax system in the US.  I'll say it again even though it won't do any good.  The top 10% of tax returns pay almost 60% of our tax bill.  That is a progressive tax system.  There is no way around it.  Are there some tax advantages that are extended to the rich?  Yes there are.  Does that mean that our entire tax sysytem is inequitable?  No.  These authors are taking factoids and turning them into something they're not.  And Straw Man is eating it up.

I never said the entire system was inequitable

do you believe that "solutions" to our problems need to be addressed at both revenue and spending or solely spending?

[240 is Back]

240.  do you think the wealthy do not pay " lots of taxes"?

I believe I heard warren buffet and many others pay less % of their income than their secretaries.

It should be equal.

[Dos Equis]

http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/show/250.html#Data


here is the IRS statistics on tax.  this is not some rich guy's take on tax policy.  these are the cold hard facts.  and it's not like this is hard to find.  just go the fucking IRS website.  which is why i get so worked up when i hear all this bullshit.

Nooooo.  Not the facts.  Don't try giving people facts.  You'll just confuse (some) people.  

[bears]

I believe I heard warren buffet and many others pay less % of their income than their secretaries.

It should be equal.

yeah he was wrong about that.  it's been more than verified. 

[bears]

I believe I heard warren buffet and many others pay less % of their income than their secretaries.

It should be equal.

it's not equal.  you're right.  not even close.

[bears]

I never said the entire system was inequitable

do you believe that "solutions" to our problems need to be addressed at both revenue and spending or solely spending?

honestly.  right now?  solely spending.  without a sliver of doubt in my mind. 

[Straw Man]

honestly.  right now?  solely spending.  without a sliver of doubt in my mind. 

then you should probably stick with you vow of no further discussion with me on the topic because I believe the "solely spending" approach is ridiculous, short sighted and unfair....without a sliver of doubt in my mind

[bears]

Nooooo.  Not the facts.  Don't try giving people facts.  You'll just confuse (some) people.  

it's simply hilarious that people on this board do not want to listen to a CPA or defer to IRS statistics.  They want to defer to Mark Cuban.  I was showing a couple of my co workers this thread and we all had a good laugh.  However, one of them said it best.  "People today have so much information coming at them that after a while they give up and just blindly follow the party with which they most align themselves.  they are losing the ability to think for themselves."  

I thought that was pretty spot on.

[bears]

then you should probably stick with you vow of no further discussion with me on the topic because I believe the "solely spending" approach is ridiculous, short sighted and unfair....without a sliver of doubt in my mind

you're absolutely right.  why in the fuck would i have a discussion with someone who doesn't even know what kind of tax system we have in the US, let alone discuss how to fix it?  You think that the rich pay less in tax then the poor.  You've blatantly said that you will defer to Cuban and Buffett before you will take a look at statistics coming directly from the IRS.  LOL. 

[Straw Man]

you're absolutely right.  why in the fuck would i have a discussion with someone who doesn't even know what kind of tax system we have in the US, let alone discuss how to fix it? You think that the rich pay less in tax then the poor.  You've blatantly said that you will defer to Cuban and Buffett before you will take a look at statistics coming directly from the IRS.  LOL.  

I didn't say the rich pay less in tax than the poor and I even made a distiction between those people who earn high income as W2 wage earners vs those whoo derive their high income from non-wage sources.  

[Dos Equis]

it's simply hilarious that people on this board do not want to listen to a CPA or defer to IRS statistics.  They want to defer to Mark Cuban.  I was showing a couple of my co workers this thread and we all had a good laugh.  However, one of them said it best.  "People today have so much information coming at them that after a while they give up and just blindly follow the party with which they most align themselves.  they are losing the ability to think for themselves."  

I thought that was pretty spot on.

That is spot on for some folks.  No doubt.  Anyone who takes a realistic look at the tax statistics will know that Obama is misleading the public. 

[Fury]

it's simply hilarious that people on this board do not want to listen to a CPA or defer to IRS statistics.  They want to defer to Mark Cuban.  I was showing a couple of my co workers this thread and we all had a good laugh.  However, one of them said it best.  "People today have so much information coming at them that after a while they give up and just blindly follow the party with which they most align themselves.  they are losing the ability to think for themselves."  

I thought that was pretty spot on.

They don't care. All they're interested is stealing from the productive to give to the parasites. They don't care about facts, statistics or reality. All they care about is getting what their owed (i.e. everything you've got).

In their eyes, your money doesn't belong to you. It's theirs for the taking and they're being generous by letting you keep ANY of it.

[Straw Man]

I believe I heard warren buffet and many others pay less % of their income than their secretaries.

It should be equal.

here's the source and the quote:  
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/15/opinion/stop-coddling-the-super-rich.html?_r=1



I'm not aware of anyone proving this quote is not accurate

Last year my federal tax bill — the income tax I paid, as well as payroll taxes paid by me and on my behalf — was $6,938,744. That sounds like a lot of money. But what I paid was only 17.4 percent of my taxable income — and that’s actually a lower percentage than was paid by any of the other 20 people in our office. Their tax burdens ranged from 33 percent to 41 percent and averaged 36 percent.

[tonymctones]

http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/show/250.html#Data


here is the IRS statistics on tax.  this is not some rich guy's take on tax policy.  these are the cold hard facts.  and it's not like this is hard to find.  just go the fucking IRS website.  which is why i get so worked up when i hear all this bullshit.

LMFAO your link is proof for bears points...

the fact is its a progressive tax system. The more income you make through salary and pay the more you pay period.

Buffets point is that b/c the majority of his income come in capital gains that by comparison his total tax rate paid is less than his secretaries b/c hers comes from salary or regular pay...

He is leaving out a very crucial step in his assesment of the situation and so are you...

everybody who has capital gains pays those taxes, by your link the top 25% pay 86% of all income tax...

[bears]

here's the source and the quote:  
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/15/opinion/stop-coddling-the-super-rich.html?_r=1



I'm not aware of anyone proving this quote is not accurate

essentially what he is doing is trying to calculate his marginal tax rate.  what Buffett is saying could possibly be true.  However, his return would fall into a very small percentage of returns with AGI as high as his own.  like less than 1% percentages.  This is from statistics gathered by the IRS, not from me.  He most probably pays for meticulous tax planning but to fall in that range that he claims to be in is very rare even for the best tax planners.  I can honestly not conjecture on the veracity of his claims as i have not seen the returns in question.  

Either way, what these journalists are doing are simply making huge assumptions about several returns based upon Warren Buffett's claims about a few returns he saw.  The statistics are quite clear on the breakdown on who pays what and the average marginal tax rates for each level of AGI and taxable income. If he is actually correct then this is most definitely the exception and not the rule.  Trying to paint the picture otherwise without actually showing the returns so someone can actually verify this claim is just irresponsible.  I would love to take a look at the returns.

Thinking what Warren Buffett said about a few returns he saw overrides the statistical analysis over 70 years by the IRS is just fucking stupid.  I know it's what you want to hear but you're jumping the gun on this one without doing your homework.

[MM2K]

Another example of a person who everyone knows is a brilliant businessman - but suddenly he'll be called a dumbass for agreeing with obama

Not a dumbass. Just an arrogant lying sack of shit that wants people who make 5000 times less than he does to pay more taxes. 240, billionares and multi millionares dont pay taxes. People making under a million DO pay taxes. Does Mark Cuban believe his equity should be taxed more? I bet you he doesnt.

[Straw Man]

I never realized how many millionares and billionares post on this board

don't worry guys

The "class wars" are over and you won (just look at how income disparity has grown in this country if you need some reassurance)

The Repubs will never let your tax rate to be raised by a marginal 2-3% (you know, back to those levels you paid during the socialist regime of Bill Clinton) much less to that rate you paid under communists like Reagan and his communist predecessors 

It's really hard to understand why anyone even bothered to work back then considering how much they were being taxed.   

[Soul Crusher]

Sorry Straw - I dont look at those people as the enemy. 

And guess what straw - the original money used for investment was already taxed as income at the base level.

So buffet is full of shit and lying just to kneepad obama.       

[GigantorX]

Great thread.

A real eye opener.

Welcome to the board, Bears!

[Straw Man]

Sorry Straw - I dont look at those people as the enemy. 
And guess what straw - the original money used for investment was already taxed as income at the base level.

So buffet is full of shit and lying just to kneepad obama.       

Are you JOKING ?

you consider more than half the country as your enemy

how many times have you written that you'd like to engage in some sort of violence against people who don't vote, think or simply believe the way you do

you consider the very process of democracy as your enemy

[Straw Man]

For those who didn't bother to read Buffets article (which I assume is everyone) he is talking about loopholes and various gimmicks that apply to the Super Rich

he's not talking about high income wage earner who's pulling in multiple six figure salary, bonus, commission etc (W-2 wages)

[Soul Crusher]

For those who didn't bother to read Buffets article (which I assume is everyone) he is talking about loopholes and various gimmicks that apply to the Super Rich

he's not talking about high income wage earner who's pulling in multiple six figure salary, bonus, commission etc (W-2 wages)

Well then go tell that to Obama since his boguis tax scam does in fact apply to W2 wage earners.   

[Straw Man]

Well then go tell that to Obama since his boguis tax scam does in fact apply to W2 wage earners.   

there is no "bogus tax scam"

seems like reality is your enemy today as well

[Soul Crusher]

there is no "bogus tax scam"

seems like reality is your enemy today as well

His bogus plan applies to all filers over 200k Straw - not the Billionaire Jet owners he rails about.   

[Straw Man]

His bogus plan applies to all filers over 200k Straw - not the Billionaire Jet owners he rails about.   

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