Author Topic: UFC 135 - Jones Won But.........  (Read 12114 times)

suckmymuscle

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Re: Jones Won But.........
« Reply #50 on: September 25, 2011, 09:30:43 AM »
Will you stop goin on about heights and weight cuts blah blah blah.Havent you ever seen Stefan Struve the 6ft 11 monster get pummeled silly by guys alot shorter than him? Its not about Jones height, hes simply better than anyone that hes fought.Whats so hard to grasp about that?
And why should he fight heavyweights? Just because hes too good for his division? Give the guy a chance, hes barely been fighting 3 years and people like you desperately want to see him lose, why? Hes going to be the greatest UFC fighter of all time so just deal with it and STFU

  Hey, idiot, I never claimed that reach is the only thing that matters. Of course, if you are extremely slow and uncoordinated then it might be a disadvantage as the taller you are the easier it is to take you to the ground because your center of gravity is farther away from the ground. But in the case of Jones, anyone can see that this is the variable that is allowing him to KO or TKO everyone. Look at the Shogun fight and you'll see that Shogun couldn't even get close to Jones. At one point, Jones actually used one of his arms to hold Shogun at a distance and then pummel him from afar. Are you saying that Jon Jones won because his stand-up is better than Shogun's? Shogun is a Muay Thai master, the best fighter of Chute Boxe, and he has been fighting since 2003. Do you really think that Jones' stand-up is technically superior to his? C'mon. The same thing for Rampage. He couldn't even get close to Jones and every time he tried, Jones' left leg would hit him from the other side of the ring and push him back. Rampage has 19 wins by KO. How many has Jones? Oh, that's right, none. All his wins are by TKO and not KO. The guy has no real power. He couldn't finish Rampage with strikes and had to rely on one of the worst applied chokes I've ever seen to win fight. It goes to show how pathetic Jones is that even though his opponent was almost 6" shorter than him with an 11" reach disadvantage, he had to take the fight to the ground because he couldn't finish him. Had they the same reach, the fight would have been completely different.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

dustin

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Re: UFC 135 - Jones Won But.........
« Reply #51 on: September 25, 2011, 09:36:38 AM »
I feel bad that Joe Rogan kept saying he was flawless. I don't like Rampage but hats off to him. He hurt Jones and really improved his striking.

Very one dimensional but he had new levels to his striking. I knew it wouldn't happen but I wanted to see him clip Jones with a good hay maker and shut him the fuck up.

Palpatine Q

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Re: Jones Won But.........
« Reply #52 on: September 25, 2011, 09:42:57 AM »
 Why is weight the only things that matter? Because the athletic comissions say so? I could fight a guy the same weight as me and beat his ass if he has more fat and less muscle than me at the same weight(more muscle and less fat means more strength and agility). I could fight a guy the same weight as me and with the same amount of muscle but if he is 5'7 and I'm 6'4, I am likely gona beat him because I will be able to reach him whilst he won't be able to reach me. There are a lot of things that matter besides sheer weight, and it's not my fault that the athletic comissions don't understand that. But yeah, going by the book all that matters is weight. Who cares?
  
  Given the fact that they used to train together, Jones knows his game very well and is 10 X the athlete Rashad is. It will be a massacre. Sure, Rashad knows Jones' game too, but I think this will be a far greater advantage to Jones than to Rashad.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

LOLOL.

So the athletic commission should change the divisions because you don't like them  ::) ::)

Hey, you're really smart, right? do you think you could figure out a way to kill yourself right now while you're typing ??

flipper5470

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Re: UFC 135 - Jones Won But.........
« Reply #53 on: September 25, 2011, 09:57:46 AM »
Jones pitched a shutout...he was vastly superior standing and managed to cut and later submit Ramapage on the ground.   I didn't get the sense that Ramapge had Jones in trouble at any point in the fight and I don't hink he had a plan once it became clear that Jones was simply going to wrap him up when he managed to get within striking distance.  You could say he "did better" because he lasted until the 4th round or you could say that Jones was content to pick him apart rather than risk opening himself up to Jackson's one hope...a hook to the jaw.  Whatever...the end result is the same, Jones by submission.

Jackson had possibly the worst corner in recent memory..."find your range" was the extent of thier input.  Not since BJ Penn was repeatedly told "c'mon..it's Frankie Edgar, knock the guy out"  have I seen a corner do less for a fighter.  They were about as useful as tits on the Pope

suckmymuscle

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Re: UFC 135 - Jones Won But.........
« Reply #54 on: September 25, 2011, 10:17:47 AM »
Jones pitched a shutout...he was vastly superior standing

  No, he wasn't. He just used his reach to pummel Rampage from afar. Technically, neither are very good on the stand-up despite Jones being very flashy and athletic. I am not impressed with Jones' power. The guy hits like a girl. How many opponents has he flat out knocked out? The last one was Parker Porter over three years ago, and he has a glass jaw. If it weren't for reach, Rampage would have decimated him as he's a proven knock-out freak.

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George Whorewell

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Re: UFC 135 - Jones Won But.........
« Reply #55 on: September 25, 2011, 10:30:54 AM »
And while im here, you also talk shit ;D How is he a heavyweight fighting at 205? He doesnt exactly cut 40lbs to make weights does he? His legs are like fuckin chickens, but yeh, its his fault i guess that he has long arms n legs ::)

He cuts 30 pounds to make weight. He is only 23 years old. He could easily fight at HW. It's not his "fault" that he is using his physical tools to overwhelm everyone else. He is being smart. After weighing in at 205, he walks into the cage at 220+.

Not taking anything away from him. Just saying that he is a gigantic LHW and could fight at HW.


GraniteCityDon

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Re: Jones Won But.........
« Reply #56 on: September 25, 2011, 10:36:16 AM »
Stop making excuses about too long of limbs and being a HW etc.  He makes weight and that's all that matters.  Anything else is just petty excuse.

Who do you have with Bones vs. Evans?

weve been over this many times, it is pointless to pursue this debate as he doesnt listen..........

kevcat

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Re: Jones Won But.........
« Reply #57 on: September 25, 2011, 11:06:05 AM »
 Hey, idiot, I never claimed that reach is the only thing that matters. Of course, if you are extremely slow and uncoordinated then it might be a disadvantage as the taller you are the easier it is to take you to the ground because your center of gravity is farther away from the ground. But in the case of Jones, anyone can see that this is the variable that is allowing him to KO or TKO everyone. Look at the Shogun fight and you'll see that Shogun couldn't even get close to Jones. At one point, Jones actually used one of his arms to hold Shogun at a distance and then pummel him from afar. Are you saying that Jon Jones won because his stand-up is better than Shogun's? Shogun is a Muay Thai master, the best fighter of Chute Boxe, and he has been fighting since 2003. Do you really think that Jones' stand-up is technically superior to his? C'mon. The same thing for Rampage. He couldn't even get close to Jones and every time he tried, Jones' left leg would hit him from the other side of the ring and push him back. Rampage has 19 wins by KO. How many has Jones? Oh, that's right, none. All his wins are by TKO and not KO. The guy has no real power. He couldn't finish Rampage with strikes and had to rely on one of the worst applied chokes I've ever seen to win fight. It goes to show how pathetic Jones is that even though his opponent was almost 6" shorter than him with an 11" reach disadvantage, he had to take the fight to the ground because he couldn't finish him. Had they the same reach, the fight would have been completely different.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

You keep talking in 'IF's'...Wich means what youre saying is hypothetical.You dont know if they had the same height that the fight would be different, just accept that JBJ is goin to dminate that division for as long as he wants.No point moaning about silly things or saying hes not as good at this or that.The fact is hes more well rounded than most guys.He actually took it easy on Page, i think it was so he could let it go into the 'championship rounds' as Page kept goin on about, just to prove a point.He couldve beaten him anytime he wanted.
Oh and hold on....6ft 4 V 6ft 1 is let me quote 'almost 6inches'......Seriously man, you say anything to TRY and win an argument ::)

suckmymuscle

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Re: Jones Won But.........
« Reply #58 on: September 25, 2011, 11:19:13 AM »
He actually took it easy on Page, i think it was so he could let it go into the 'championship rounds' as Page kept goin on about, just to prove a point.He couldve beaten him anytime he wanted.

  Riiiiiiight...and I am the one who likes to dwell on hypotheticals, huh?

Quote
Oh and hold on....6ft 4 V 6ft 1 is let me quote 'almost 6inches'......Seriously man, you say anything to TRY and win an argument ::)

  I am not sure Rampage is 6'1. In the old PRIDE website he was listed as being 1.78 meter or 5'10. In any case, what matters here is reach and not height. Height only allows you to have greater reach. The bottom line is that Jones has a huge reach advantage on Rampage. Case dismissed.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

flipper5470

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Re: UFC 135 - Jones Won But.........
« Reply #59 on: September 25, 2011, 11:26:06 AM »
 No, he wasn't. He just used his reach to pummel Rampage from afar. Technically, neither are very good on the stand-up despite Jones being very flashy and athletic. I am not impressed with Jones' power. The guy hits like a girl. How many opponents has he flat out knocked out? The last one was Parker Porter over three years ago, and he has a glass jaw. If it weren't for reach, Rampage would have decimated him as he's a proven knock-out freak.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

Part of "technical superiority" is using your assets to neutralize your opponenents assets...Jones' reach kept Rampage out of striking distance.  Rampage couldn't find a way to avoid anything and he couldn't figure out how to do any damage when Jones was wrapping him up in the clinch.

 Who cares if Jones doesn't knock people out..he gets them out of there regardless.  It's a fight...not a KO contest

cephissus

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Re: UFC 135 - Jones Won But.........
« Reply #60 on: September 25, 2011, 11:28:11 AM »
so what, smm, we should eliminate all "advantages" until all the fighters are equal?  then wouldn't all the fights end in a draw?

so you're convinced jone's reach is what gave him the win... why shouldn't it?  oh, because he should be "fighting people his own size"?  so you add reach limits to your classes.  okay, then jones beats a guy because he's quicker.  so we add fast twitch composition to the classes?  okay, then he beats them because he has better tactics.  so we add training knowledge to the classes?  then he beats a guy because he has better ground game than standup... so we factor in ratio of wrestling/striking skills to the classes?

eventually you end up with people who can only fight their twin brother, and then we'll complain that the match is just decided by "luck" if there is even a match at all.  the level of competition would drop drastically since it would be even harder than it already is to find suitable fighters.

Royalty

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Re: UFC 135 - Jones Won But.........
« Reply #61 on: September 25, 2011, 11:32:31 AM »


rampage looks at least 2" taller than Silva here. Silva is listed at 5'11

suckmymuscle

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Re: UFC 135 - Jones Won But.........
« Reply #62 on: September 25, 2011, 11:43:38 AM »
so what, smm, we should eliminate all "advantages" until all the fighters are equal?  then wouldn't all the fights end in a draw?

so you're convinced jone's reach is what gave him the win... why shouldn't it?  oh, because he should be "fighting people his own size"?  so you add reach limits to your classes.  okay, then jones beats a guy because he's quicker.  so we add fast twitch composition to the classes?  okay, then he beats them because he has better tactics.  so we add training knowledge to the classes?  then he beats a guy because he has better ground game than standup... so we factor in ratio of wrestling/striking skills to the classes?

eventually you end up with people who can only fight their twin brother, and then we'll complain that the match is just decided by "luck" if there is even a match at all.  the level of competition would drop drastically since it would be even harder than it already is to find suitable fighters.

  Sure, but it should be about skills and not about advantages that are usurmountable. This is why there are weight classes. Taking your argument to it's logical conclusions, let's have men fight lions or elephants, since these animals only have physical advantages over Humans and it's all part of the game. I agree that there will always be physical advantages, but there are some advantages that are too great to be allowed. Just like a fighter cannot defeat an opponent who is 100 lbs heavier in terms of lean body mass, he cannot defeat a guy who can hit him but he cannot hit back. And things like tactics, grappling and wrestling technique, etc, are all part of trained skills and not innate physical advantages, so your argument is redundant. My point is that, even though I agree with yo that there will always be innate physical advantages of some fighters over others, the job of the rules should be to limit the amount of physical advantages that fighters have in relation to other fighters so that these advantages don't play a greater role in winning than trained skills.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

Dreadlifter

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Re: UFC 135 - Jones Won But.........
« Reply #63 on: September 25, 2011, 12:51:02 PM »
Disappointed at the end result, but i don't think it was a bad fight. I was virtually shouting at my tv at teh end "DON'T GIVE HIM YOUR BACK!!!!" next thing you know  tap-tap-tap.

Rampage did better than i thought, threw the most kicks i've ever seen him throw that's for sure.  ;D

It's obvious to anyone with working eyes that Jones falls short when it comes to knock-out power. Looks to me like he knows this himself and doesn't even try and play that game. I knew he was never going to KO Rampage, but i thought it'd be a tko rather than a submission.

You can say what you like about Rampage but he was nothing but respectful in his post-fight interview. I was a little surprised. No excuses, just that Bones was better. Jones did act like an ass at points in the fight and i just wanted Rampage to break his jaw, but i let that slide when he made it clear how Rashad had "ruined his special night twice".  :'( Lol. Ghey. I half-expected to see tears in his eyes.

This for me was the true test of Jones, and after that i don't think Rashad is going to trouble him too much.

On the topic of Jones' size, yeah he's got that height and more importantly the massive reach but look at his structure. Like somebody already said he's got chicken legs. They're possibly skinnier than his less than hefty arms.  For me he's pretty much got the choice of being a big LH, or a small LHW. Clear which he'd have more success as. Having said that, it might not be a bad thing if classes were a weight and height range. I watched a fight not too long ago, i think it was maybe Miguel Torres vs some munchkin. Torres is a bit like a smaller Jones 5'9" with a 76 inch reach at 135lbs(stats that should be possible, no man over 5' should weigh 135lbs) and his opponent was 5'3" or so. It was a completely pointless fight.

pellius

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Re: UFC 135 - Jones Won But.........
« Reply #64 on: September 25, 2011, 01:14:23 PM »
 No, he wasn't. He just used his reach to pummel Rampage from afar. Technically, neither are very good on the stand-up despite Jones being very flashy and athletic. I am not impressed with Jones' power. The guy hits like a girl. How many opponents has he flat out knocked out? The last one was Parker Porter over three years ago, and he has a glass jaw. If it weren't for reach, Rampage would have decimated him as he's a proven knock-out freak.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

If it wasn't for Jone's reach, if it wasn't for Hughes strength, if it wasn't for BJ's flexibility, if it wasn't for GSP's athleticism, if it wasn't for Vitor's speed....

God you are just so, so stupid. You brag about your 300+ IQ but most of your posts are just find with utter moronic stupidity.

BTW, I know you don't realize it. You never do. But once again you start a thread where  you are getting brutally owned.

I await your "meltdown" response.

Swede!

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Re: UFC 135 - Jones Won But.........
« Reply #65 on: September 25, 2011, 01:48:15 PM »
I'm a little disappointed gb'ers are letting themself get trolled like this..

Stavios

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Re: UFC 135 - Jones Won But.........
« Reply #66 on: September 25, 2011, 01:53:53 PM »
I prefer watching real fights where nobody knows shit about fighting and just throw punches at each other

 8)

suckmymuscle

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Re: UFC 135 - Jones Won But.........
« Reply #67 on: September 25, 2011, 03:01:53 PM »
Rampage did better than i thought, threw the most kicks i've ever seen him throw that's for sure.  ;D

  Rampage did awesome considering he was a like a child fighting a grown man.

Quote
It's obvious to anyone with working eyes that Jones falls short when it comes to knock-out power.


  Yes. This seems to be Jones' key failing. Despite his supreme athleticism, speed, reach, supreme wrestling and takedowns, there is no evidence that he hits very hard. Most of his wins are TKOs where he pounds his opponents with his elbows on the ground and he usually takes a long time to get his oponents dizzy enough for the judge to stop and declare it a TKO victory.

  I can see two kinds of fighter that could beat Jones: a very hard hitter with a granite jaw that could resist Jones' punches and close in enough to clip him, or a very strong and large wrestler who can take him down and tire him and win by points. You won't find such a wrestler in the light-heavyweight division, but in the heavyweight ranks I believe that Cain or even Lesnar could do it. They are both strong enough to take Jones down and hold him there despite Jones's superb wrestling. But is there anyone in the light-heavyweight rank who can do it? No.

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suckmymuscle

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Re: UFC 135 - Jones Won But.........
« Reply #68 on: September 25, 2011, 03:03:23 PM »
I prefer watching real fights where nobody knows shit about fighting and just throw punches at each other

 8)

  Then go watch bum wars or Kimbo Slice and Tank Abbott. You will be entertained. I am serious.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

suckmymuscle

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Re: UFC 135 - Jones Won But.........
« Reply #69 on: September 25, 2011, 10:40:14 PM »
  "Bump"

SUCKMYMUSCLE

Palpatine Q

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Re: UFC 135 - Jones Won But.........
« Reply #70 on: September 25, 2011, 10:47:38 PM »
I'm a little disappointed gb'ers are letting themself get trolled like this..

I don't even pay attention to this crap and i know you're right.

"if" my grandmother had balls, she's be my grandfather...fucking "if"....LOL

kevcat

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Re: UFC 135 - Jones Won But.........
« Reply #71 on: September 26, 2011, 02:15:19 AM »
 Rampage did awesome considering he was a like a child fighting a grown man.
 

  Yes. This seems to be Jones' key failing. Despite his supreme athleticism, speed, reach, supreme wrestling and takedowns, there is no evidence that he hits very hard. Most of his wins are TKOs where he pounds his opponents with his elbows on the ground and he usually takes a long time to get his oponents dizzy enough for the judge to stop and declare it a TKO victory.

  I can see two kinds of fighter that could beat Jones: a very hard hitter with a granite jaw that could resist Jones' punches and close in enough to clip him, or a very strong and large wrestler who can take him down and tire him and win by points. You won't find such a wrestler in the light-heavyweight division, but in the heavyweight ranks I believe that Cain or even Lesnar could do it. They are both strong enough to take Jones down and hold him there despite Jones's superb wrestling. But is there anyone in the light-heavyweight rank who can do it? No.SUCKMYMUSCLE

Why are you talking about Heavyweights again? Of cours guys who weigh 50lbs more than Jones are going to be able to take him down .He isnt a Heavyweight you dumb shit!

suckmymuscle

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Re: UFC 135 - Jones Won But.........
« Reply #72 on: September 26, 2011, 10:58:44 AM »
Why are you talking about Heavyweights again? Of cours guys who weigh 50lbs more than Jones are going to be able to take him down .He isnt a Heavyweight you dumb shit!

  Lol, meltdown from one of the least intelligent posters of the MMA board. I am talking about heavyweights because Jones has the height and bone structure of a heavyweight and should be fighting in that division. There is no one at 205 lbs who can realistically beat him due to his reach and strength. He should be fighting guys who have the arm length to hit him, like JDS, or guys who have the strength to take him down like Cain.

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coltrane

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Re: UFC 135 - Jones Won But.........
« Reply #73 on: September 26, 2011, 11:01:35 AM »
  Lol, meltdown from one of the least intelligent posters of the MMA board. I am talking about heavyweights because Jones has the height and bone structure of a heavyweight and should be fighting in that division. There is no one at 205 lbs who can realistically beat him due to his reach and strength. He should be fighting guys who have the arm length to hit him, like JDS, or guys who have the strength to take him down like Cain.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

ARM LENGTH ISN'T WHAT IS CONSIDERED YOU FUCKING MORON!!!    IT"S A WEIGHT-BASED SYSTEM! 

You're only complaining because Jones' isn't an old Pride dog and you hate that fact.  He beat up on your Pride boys and thats tough for you to swallow, so you make excuse after excuse about it.

STFU already.  My god!

coltrane

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Re: UFC 135 - Jones Won But.........
« Reply #74 on: September 26, 2011, 11:04:02 AM »
The same can be said for Anderson Silva.  Why aren't you bitching after his wins?

Maybe Cain with his short reach should drop to LH. 


Weight is what is considered.  All else are just advantages...  like wrestling background, jitz experience, REACH, muay tai, etc etc etc.

Shut up already you whiney little bitch.