The Afterlife

[NarcissisticDeity]

It's not. For a religious person if you ask them why it is wrong to steal they will answer "because it is against one of the ten commandments." And I know people on this board will laugh at this and say we are brain washed robots and can't think for ourselves.

But explain to me, in purely secular terms, why stealing is wrong.

Why is stealing wrong? because you wouldn't want someone stealing from you , that's why it's wrong

It's only wrong because God might find out? I don't want to steal from anyone because I have had things stolen from me , not because I fear repercussions from a God

[Deicide]

Atheists dont want to reproduce, get illnesses, sink into addictions, real faithful christians -not talking about fake ones- dont know. Real christians reproduce, raise educated contributing kids who dont fall for addictions and help others get over them. Work in research, in health...

you do the maths narcisic"Deity" ...

 

[pellius]

LMFAO equating atheism with being amoral ironic the overwhelming majority of prisons are packed full of believers

So you're only behaving out of fear of a vengeful God? great logic 

I don't know why I even should respond to you as you argue from emotion and I'm sure eventually I'll ignore you but for the benefit of others reading this thread.

I never said atheists are amoral. I said they make their own rules. The overwhelming majority of people in prison were not practicing Christians before their crimes. What conversions takes place while in prison is an entirely different issue altogether.

And yes, I do fear God. I fear being punished for bad deeds and strive to be rewarded for good deeds. Same reason why you listened to your parents. Same reason your employees listen to you. Same reason you don't break the law. Same reason why you don't go to the front door guarded by a snarling German Shepard. See the logic?

Psalm 111:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom.

[NarcissisticDeity]

Atheists dont want to reproduce, get illnesses, sink into addictions, real faithful christians -not talking about fake ones- dont know. Real christians reproduce, raise educated contributing kids who dont fall for addictions and help others get over them. Work in research, in health...

you do the maths narcisic"Deity" ...

 

You're painting with a very broad brush and your points can all be applied to Christians yes even ' real ' ones , again most prisons are filled with believers

Narcissistic Deity = self-loving God like the God of Christianity , who makes a flawed creations then punishes his creations for the flaws , self-loving demands to be worshiped and praised for creating , lets entertain for a moment there is a creator is the Universe/Multiverse etc , do you think for a moment someone this exceptional would beg for petty praise? or give a fuck about who you sleep with or if you masturbate? This is offensive to someone with this capability and if there is a creator he/she/it is most certainly NOTHING like the one described in the ' holy bible '

[The Ugly]

most prisons are filled with believers

No they're not.

[NarcissisticDeity]

I don't know why I even should respond to you as you argue from emotion and I'm sure eventually I'll ignore you but for the benefit of others reading this thread.

I never said atheists are amoral. I said they make their own rules. The overwhelming majority of people in prison were not practicing Christians before their crimes. What conversions takes place while in prison is an entirely different issue altogether.

And yes, I do fear God. I fear being punished for bad deeds and strive to be rewarded for good deeds. Same reason why you listened to your parents. Same reason your employees listen to you. Same reason you don't break the law. Same reason why you don't go to the front door guarded by a snarling German Shepard. See the logic?

Psalm 111:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom.

I don't know why I even should respond to you as you argue from emotion and I'm sure eventually I'll ignore you but for the benefit of others reading this thread.

I'm sure you will ignore me as well as facts

I never said atheists are amoral. I said they make their own rules. The overwhelming majority of people in prison were not practicing Christians before their crimes. What conversions takes place while in prison is an entirely different issue altogether.

I never claimed you said atheists are amoral , I said you equated atheism with being amoral , in your example that if you were an atheist you wouldn't have returned the money and the only reason you would is fear , you're only moral because you're being forced to out of fear

You don't know what overwhelming majority of people religious status was before they entered the system , you took some liberties here and lets entertain it's true what does that tell us about the rate of being repeat offenders when released? people find God in jail and after they get out they all become model citizens?

And yes, I do fear God. I fear being punished for bad deeds and strive to be rewarded for good deeds. Same reason why you listened to your parents. Same reason your employees listen to you. Same reason you don't break the law. Same reason why you don't go to the front door guarded by a snarling German Shepard. See the logic?

Psalm 111:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom.

No logic , you admit that you're only moral because you're being babysat and or live in fear of punishment. You better give back that money to the cashier because you might have to explain that one to a vengeful angry God , I would give that money back because I know if she's short in her draw it may come out of her pay check and the simple fact that the money is NOT mine , no God needed morality without God.

[NarcissisticDeity]

No they're not.

I disagree

he Federal Bureau of Prisons does have statistics on religious
affiliations of inmates.  The following are total number of
inmates per religion category:

Response              Number      %
----------------------------  --------
Catholic               29267   39.164%
Protestant             26162   35.008%
Muslim                  5435    7.273%
American Indian         2408    3.222%
Nation                  1734    2.320%
Rasta                   1485    1.987%
Jewish                  1325    1.773%
Church of Christ        1303    1.744%
Pentecostal             1093    1.463%
Moorish                 1066    1.426%
Buddhist                 882    1.180%
Jehovah Witness          665    0.890%
Adventist                621    0.831%
Orthodox                 375    0.502%
Mormon                   298    0.399%
Scientology              190    0.254%
Atheist                  156    0.209%
Hindu                    119    0.159%
Santeria                 117    0.157%
Sikh                      14    0.019%
Bahai                      9    0.012%
Krishna                    7    0.009%
----------------------------  --------
Total Known Responses  74731  100.001% (rounding to 3 digits does this)


Unknown/No Answer      18381
----------------------------
Total Convicted        93112  80.259% (74731) prisoners' religion is known.


Held in Custody         3856  (not surveyed due to temporary custody)
----------------------------
Total In Prisons       96968


I hope that this information is helpful to you.

Sincerely,

Denise Golumbaski
Research Analyst
Federal Bureau of Prisons

[The Ugly]

I disagree

he Federal Bureau of Prisons does have statistics on religious
affiliations of inmates.  The following are total number of
inmates per religion category:

Response              Number      %
----------------------------  --------
Catholic               29267   39.164%
Protestant             26162   35.008%
Muslim                  5435    7.273%
American Indian         2408    3.222%
Nation                  1734    2.320%
Rasta                   1485    1.987%
Jewish                  1325    1.773%
Church of Christ        1303    1.744%
Pentecostal             1093    1.463%
Moorish                 1066    1.426%
Buddhist                 882    1.180%
Jehovah Witness          665    0.890%
Adventist                621    0.831%
Orthodox                 375    0.502%
Mormon                   298    0.399%
Scientology              190    0.254%
Atheist                  156    0.209%
Hindu                    119    0.159%
Santeria                 117    0.157%
Sikh                      14    0.019%
Bahai                      9    0.012%
Krishna                    7    0.009%
----------------------------  --------
Total Known Responses  74731  100.001% (rounding to 3 digits does this)


Unknown/No Answer      18381
----------------------------
Total Convicted        93112  80.259% (74731) prisoners' religion is known.


Held in Custody         3856  (not surveyed due to temporary custody)
----------------------------
Total In Prisons       96968


I hope that this information is helpful to you.

Sincerely,

Denise Golumbaski
Research Analyst
Federal Bureau of Prisons

C'mon, they responded to a poll. Prisons are filled with people who respect nothing, certainly not Christian values. The stats are meaningless.

Edit: I do find it amusing that 7 Krishnas landed themselves in the clink.

[NarcissisticDeity]

C'mon, they responded to a poll. Prisons are filled with people who respect nothing, certainly not Christian values. The stats are meaningless.

If they proved your point would you feel the same way?

[Deicide]

[The Ugly]

If they proved your point would you feel the same way?

Anything that comes out of a prisoner's mouth must be viewed with skepticism. I'm sure we can agree on that.

[NarcissisticDeity]

Anything that comes out of a prisoner's mouth must be viewed with skepticism. I'm sure we can agree on that.

I think if the stats proved overwhelming that the majority of convicts were atheists you feel differently , and on a matter of faith why should be be skeptical ? it's not like they were admitted to anything guilty , I don't understand why we would have to be concerned about validity of their answer on such a simple question

[Natural Man]

most prisons are filled with believers

who found their faith AFTER joining the prison and to face the absurdity of life in there. To keep their psyche working instead of seeing it melt, disintegrate itself.

[NarcissisticDeity]

who found their faith AFTER joining the prison and to face the absurdity of life in there. To keep their psyche working instead of seeing it melt, disintegrate itself.

And you got these facts where? and if true what does that say about the rate of re-offenders when released?

[pellius]

very simple, it hurts another person.

morality is based on how your behavior affect others.

So what? Why should I care? People hurt me all the time? Where did this, your, morality come from? If I found my neighbor's wallet with $60.00 inside I'm going to keep it. He's already hurt that he lost his wallet. He'll never know it's me that found it. And if I don't keep it somebody else will. I would rather it be me. Sixty bucks is sixty buck. A nice vial of trenbolona that I wouldn't else have had. Plus, I need it more. And the guy's a dick. He deserves it.

[NarcissisticDeity]

So what? Why should I care? People hurt me all the time? Where did this, your, morality come from? If I found my neighbor's wallet with $60.00 inside I'm going to keep it. He's already hurt that he lost his wallet. He'll never know it's me that found it. And if I don't keep it somebody else will. I would rather it be me. Sixty bucks is sixty buck. A nice vial of trenbolona that I wouldn't else have had. Plus, I need it more. And the guy's a dick. He deserves it.

I gave you a perfect example which you ignored. The only reason you would give back the cashier money is out of fear , the reason I would give it back because I know 1) it doesn't belong to me and 2) if I don't return it may come out of her check

[pellius]

Why is stealing wrong? because you wouldn't want someone stealing from you , that's why it's wrong

It's only wrong because God might find out? I don't want to steal from anyone because I have had things stolen from me , not because I fear repercussions from a God

So you abide by the golden rule "Do unto others..." as stated in the Bible.

Would you steal if it didn't hurt any one individual? If no, why not? Say you worked at a 7-11. Would you swipe one of their sodas if you really wanted one? Really thirsty for that Coke but didn't have the money. Hey, it's only a buck. Nobody is going to feel it? It will have an insignificant income on the companies profit margin.

And is doing to others always OK if I allow it to be done to myself? I let people punch me in the face, throw me to the ground and twist my arm. I wouldn't that done to my girl friend. Kai Green was poor and desperate and did humiliating things for money. He also has done things to his body that no normal person would do. Would he think it was OK if his daughter or son did the same thing?

[pellius]

You're painting with a very broad brush and your points can all be applied to Christians yes even ' real ' ones , again most prisons are filled with believers

Narcissistic Deity = self-loving God like the God of Christianity , who makes a flawed creations then punishes his creations for the flaws , self-loving demands to be worshiped and praised for creating , lets entertain for a moment there is a creator is the Universe/Multiverse etc , do you think for a moment someone this exceptional would beg for petty praise? or give a fuck about who you sleep with or if you masturbate? This is offensive to someone with this capability and if there is a creator he/she/it is most certainly NOTHING like the one described in the ' holy bible '

Simply not true. As a group religious families reproduce at a far greater rate than secular ones. Again, there are always exceptions, but whenever you see a big family -- four children or more -- chances are overwhelming that they are religious.

[pellius]

who found their faith AFTER joining the prison and to face the absurdity of life in there. To keep their psyche working instead of seeing it melt, disintegrate itself.

Not only that you get certain benefits when you come across as "reborn." Some have been even spared the gas chamber.

[NarcissisticDeity]

So you abide by the golden rule "Do unto others..." as stated in the Bible.

Would you steal if it didn't hurt any one individual? If no, why not? Say you worked at a 7-11. Would you swipe one of their sodas if you really wanted one? Really thirsty for that Coke but didn't have the money. Hey, it's only a buck. Nobody is going to feel it? It will have an insignificant income on the companies profit margin.

And is doing to others always OK if I allow it to be done to myself? I let people punch me in the face, throw me to the ground and twist my arm. I wouldn't that done to my girl friend. Kai Green was poor and desperate and did humiliating things for money. He also has done things to his body that no normal person would do. Would he think it was OK if his daughter or son did the same thing?

So you abide by the golden rule "Do unto others..." as stated in the Bible.

The golden rule predates Christianity , Abraham Lincoln stated ' when I do bad things I feel bad and when I do good things I feel good. ' altruism predates religion and it's innate and without it the species would have never survived

Would you steal if it didn't hurt any one individual? If no, why not? Say you worked at a 7-11. Would you swipe one of their sodas if you really wanted one? Really thirsty for that Coke but didn't have the money. Hey, it's only a buck. Nobody is going to feel it? It will have an insignificant income on the companies profit margin.

 

I don't make it a habit of stealing even if it technically didn't hurt anyone , why? not the type of person I am not because I live in fear , if I wanted a soda and didn't have the money , the lesson would be don't blow all your money in the end you're still taking something that does NOT belong to you

And is doing to others always OK if I allow it to be done to myself? I let people punch me in the face, throw me to the ground and twist my arm. I wouldn't that done to my girl friend. Kai Green was poor and desperate and did humiliating things for money. He also has done things to his body that no normal person would do. Would he think it was OK if his daughter or son did the same thing?

You're really offering this up as an analogy? seriously you feel comfortable typing this? 

[pellius]

I gave you a perfect example which you ignored. The only reason you would give back the cashier money is out of fear , the reason I would give it back because I know 1) it doesn't belong to me and 2) if I don't return it may come out of her check

You are lying to yourself. There are labor laws that forbid company lost to be taken out of an employees check. And who cares if it doesn't belong to you.

A good part of our behavior is based on rewards and punishments. You don't speed as much as you like because you're afraid you'll get a ticket. You work hard at your job because you hope you will get a raise. You don't walk around in your public gym with your shirt off because you are afraid you will get kicked out. You don't punch the guy in the face that just insulted you because you are afraid of going to jail.

Don't try to fool me. And even worse, don't fool yourself. You're nothing special.

[NarcissisticDeity]

Simply not true. As a group religious families reproduce at a far greater rate than secular ones. Again, there are always exceptions, but whenever you see a big family -- four children or more -- chances are overwhelming that they are religious.

What's not true? I don't see the point you're trying to make

[pellius]

The golden rule predates Christianity , Abraham Lincoln stated ' when I do bad things I feel bad and when I do good things I feel good. ' altruism predates religion and it's innate and without it the species would have never survived

Goodness is innate, huh? I guess you missed the whole last century. Lincoln felt that well because he was a good person. He was raised to be a good person. He wasn't born to be good. No one is.
 

I don't make it a habit of stealing even if it technically didn't hurt anyone , why? not the type of person I am not because I live in fear , if I wanted a soda and didn't have the money , the lesson would be don't blow all your money in the end you're still taking something that does NOT belong to you

You're really offering this up as an analogy? seriously you feel comfortable typing this? 

Why are you not that type of person?

 And just address the arguments. I know this is GetBig and insults fly wildly but this is one subject I take seriously only discuss with serious people. Keep with the snide comments and the "LOL" "LMAO" then best you go back to your Coleman vs Dorian thread.

[NarcissisticDeity]

You are lying to yourself. There are labor laws that forbid company lost to be taken out of an employees check. And who cares if it doesn't belong to you.

A good part of our behavior is based on rewards and punishments. You don't speed as much as you like because you're afraid you'll get a ticket. You work hard at your job because you hope you will get a raise. You don't walk around in your public gym with your shirt off because you are afraid you will get kicked out. You don't punch the guy in the face that just insulted you because you are afraid of going to jail.

Don't try to fool me. And even worse, don't fool yourself. You're nothing special.

You are lying to yourself. There are labor laws that forbid company lost to be taken out of an employees check. And who cares if it doesn't belong to you.

Some places can and will take it out of people checks if short and lets say they can't they can write them up for being short and if written up multiple times they can get fired for it so either way I don't want to contribute to that because it benefits me , and it all goes back to IT DOESN'T belong to me

A good part of our behavior is based on rewards and punishments. You don't speed as much as you like because you're afraid you'll get a ticket. You work hard at your job because you hope you will get a raise. You don't walk around in your public gym with your shirt off because you are afraid you will get kicked out. You don't punch the guy in the face that just insulted you because you are afraid of going to jail.

Totally different than only being good because you're in fear and being ' watched ' by a God and fear eternal punishment in a pit of fire.

Don't try to fool me. And even worse, don't fool yourself. You're nothing special.

project much? who said I was anything special? how did you come to this conclusion? because I would return money that doesn't belong to me? when I was about 8 we went to the market and someone left their purse behind in a carriage my brother found it and took it to my mother , she found a lot of money inside and the woman's address on her ID , we went to her house and walked into the entry way and we heard a man screaming at a woman about that's all the money they had and she was crying hysterically , she knocked on the door returned the woman's money and needless to say it was her rent money that was due , she insisted my mother take a reward and she refused , this had an immense impact on me , this is part of the reason I wouldn't take money that belongs to me.

No fear or God needed to do the right thing

[NarcissisticDeity]

Why are you not that type of person?

 And just address the arguments. I know this is GetBig and insults fly wildly but this is one subject I take seriously only discuss with serious people. Keep with the snide comments and the "LOL" "LMAO" then best you go back to your Coleman vs Dorian thread.

Who said I wasn't that type of person? where is the snide remark? and you already predetermined you were gonna ignore me which proves you already made up your mind , you're not into serious debate.