how do you fix this?! (squat form)

[hangclean]

it means you have weak hamstrings/glutes and/or tight hip flexors.

[cephissus]

okay, how can i fix it?

i don't lift weights anymore, but when i did my stiff leg deadlifts / regular deadlifts some of my strongest lifts.  never strong in quad dominant movements.  so maybe tight hip flexors?  how do i loosen them up?  i know hip flexor stretches... but how long, how often, how many sets, when (any time, or do i have to be warmed up)?

[SilverSpoon]

I would also do "pressups" or the Cobra pose as often as you can.
Loosens the hip flexors up quite a bit.  Did for me, anyway.

[cephissus]

attention: coach

i now have the videos you requested -- sorry it took so long!

i'm sure anyone can see the degeneration in my arch as i near the bottom of the squat.  also, i can't go any lower than this without extreme rounding.  i don't feel a stretch anywhere at the bottom of the rep either.  i just sort of stop.  i should also note that i felt less flexible today (when i made these videos) than usual due to some squatting experiments i did earlier in the week.  after doing several sets just trying different things my joints feel very "stiff" and "congested" for a while, even though i only do these sets with at 65 lb barbell.

here's an extra one video demonstrating my back squats:

i should also note that i think i have some form of kyphosis.  my back definitely bends sharply near the middle when i slouch (not evenly or near the bottom like most people).  i wonder if this could be related to a deadlifting injury i had many years ago (pushed too hard, probably with bad form... eventually heard a loud pop in lower back + lots of pain... laid off deadlifts for months and pain went away).  i'm trying to maintain as much of an arch as possible in these videos, as well as trying to consciously correct my anterior pelvic tilt.

[cephissus]

I've looked through rippetoe's forum before; I might post these there too.

I've read his advice in starting strength.  He says the cause is tight hamstrings, and that the best stretch for them is the squat.  Well, as I said, I don't feel a stretch at the bottom of the squat.  I also find it hard to stretch my hamstrings.  Whenever I try, I usually end up stretching my adductors instead -- the hamstring is very unresponsive.  That said, I've been stretching for half an hour every 4 nights a week for the past two weeks.  I've determined to give it a more serious shot.

Thanks for the advice though.  I'll probably end up posting this elsewhere as well.

[wes]

Do leg press.

[cephissus]

It doesn't help.  The same thing still happens and all the stress goes to my knees or lower back.  Same with hack squat, box squat, v squat, front squat, etc. etc. etc.

I've tried it all for years and years.  Same result.

[cephissus]

From my recollection, didn't you use to write that you'd suffered some sort of burnout and that you couldn't feel/contract your muscles?
Is that gone now?

This is correct, and no it's not gone.  One of my theories is that persistently squatting/deadlifting with bad form could be a cause of the problem.  I first thought this after noticing that when I had a (rare) good squat workout, everything else seemed to go good for the rest of the week.  Invariably, I would have a bad squat workout the next session, and then everything would go to badly again.

For the past three months or so I've almost completely eliminated weight training.  Now I mostly just run / do some light crossfit style stuff and experiment with my 65 lb barbell from time to time.

Also, that you've got massively reduced cartilage (~5% total) in your knees?

You must have got this from a post where I was asking pellius something.  He's the one with the reduced cartilage.

In case you were wondering, the only other theory I have regarding my problem is that it's somehow related to my hypertension / some other organ problem.  If it's not one of these two things, I'm really lost.

[_bruce_]

The pelvic tilt when crossing a specific height during the downphase has been a plague for me too.
I don't go as far down as I used to because squat depth can be deceiving depending on the proportion of your limbs.
As already mentioned - tightness in your glutes and hams is something you should be aware of.

[cephissus]

The pelvic tilt when crossing a specific height during the downphase has been a plague for me too.
I don't go as far down as I used to because squat depth can be deceiving depending on the proportion of your limbs.
As already mentioned - tightness in your glutes and hams is something you should be aware of.

I noticed this too, specifically right after I took these videos.  I thought I was stopping quite high but it turns out I was just above parallel.

[cephissus]

At the time it read to me like your CNS was messed up. As in getting overtrained.
Out of curiousity (and since you mentioned a deadlift injury), how often did you use to deadlift? As in, how often during the week, and how many sets/reps, and how long did you rest between sets? Also, how many were your working sets and how many your warm-up sets and what percentage of your working weight was your warm-up weight?

I used to do very dumb workouts.  I would do deadlifts twice a week.  When I hurt my back, I was doing them on my back day 2x a week.  Either 4 sets of 10 or 6 sets of 6, all work sets, with 1-2 minutes rest in between sets.  I don't remember weights too well. I didn't warm up much back in those days.

Probably something like:

135 x 10 (warm up)
185 x 5 (warm up)
225 x 5 (warm up)
315 x 3 (warm up)
330-350ish for 4 x 10 (work sets)

If you think this sounds ridiculous, I used to bench press six days a week, do a hundred+ pullups every day, alternate jackknives / bicycles for ten minutes straight (easily the most grueling ab workout I've ever even heard of) etc.    I worked out like this for a couple of years and gradually entered the realm of sanity as I learned more and more from reading training articles / forums.

I didn't really know anything about form back then, so I doubt I was doing it properly.  I remember my lower back hurt pretty chronically but I always thought "well i'll make a small adjustment and if it's not getting any worse, i'll just be careful and it will slowly get better."  Then one day *POP*.  Freaked me out, and I stopped then and there.  Didn't come back to them for several years I think.  I actually think there might have been another loud pop a couple days / weeks later, when I was doing lunges on a machine.  I didn't think much of it at the time, and as the months passed I thought I had made a full recovery.  I've read stories from people who said they heard loud pops which turned out to be herniated discs.

Now I worry that maybe this old injury is somehow still affecting me...

I've thought about the CNS theory, but I haven't lifted in 3 months and there's still no real improvement, judging from my experiments.  "Adrenal fatigue" is something I've read a bit on as well, but i hesitate to consider such exotic explanations.

[_bruce_]

In video nr 4 your chest falls.

5 parts which are worth it - dude knows his stuff.

[purenaturalstrength]

Just don't squat. It sucks..

lollllllllllllllllllllll lllllll

[Tapeworm]

It's good to be mindful of form but allowing yourself to move in your natural groove is more important.  It looks as if your back is so tense you're just not allowing yourself the movement.  Quit trying to maintain an unnatural arch and just find your own movement to a comfortable depth with a 15-20 rep count weight.  Just quit thinking about your back and loosen up.  Also, you're still on your toes.  Quit trying to look up, it's fucking up your balance.

Other people will give you way better advice than me.  I'm pretty much the world's shittiest squatter.

[Devon97]

why?

How long have you been lifting ? 10+ years? ANd you don't know this yet?

The answer should be obvious.

Do a Google search for " "Never squat on smith machine"

[w8m8]

How long have you been lifting ? 10+ years? ANd you don't know this yet?

The answer should be obvious.

Do a Google search for " "Never squat on smith machine"

 

Myth #5

http://www.charlespoliquin.com/ArticlesMultimedia/Articles/Article/388/8_Stupid_Myths_about_Squatting.aspx

[yates fan]

either squat on the smith machine which will keep you aligned or do box squats for awile where you actually pause on the box,this will strengthen your hips glutes and hams,also widen your stance a bit.

[cephissus]

Yeah, I suspected that. That is insane volume, at too high an intensity. If you're a nattie, this will burn you out FAST, deadlifts are seriously taxing on the CNS and not to be performed more than once a week, one-two working sets of five reps, heavy of course, but only a few sets.

You're saying two years like this? No wonder man... also, you must have been seriously stuck or even regressing on your strength

If you've got nerve damage, it will take a hell of a lot more than three months (of total rest), nerves grow back extremely slowly, something like 1mm a month.

Have you seen a doctor? An MRI would benefit you, they'd also be able to check on your back.

Yeah I gained rapidly for about 3 months when I first started doing (somewhat) reasonable volume and actually eating... then got stuck for years and years.  Slowly it became harder to feel muscles that had always been responsive.  Now nothing really responds.

[CT_Muscle]

i lose the arch in my back near the bottom of the squat.  i think this is why i've always sucked at squats and maybe even why i keep getting injured?  does anyone REALLY know how to fix this?  any time i see people talking about this on various boards they say "oh you just need to stretch hamstrings / calves / glutes / etc." but never anything specific.  can this really be fixed by stretching?  if so, how, exactly?  i've also heard people say that the squat is supposed to stretch you out, so it will correct itself in time.  well, this hasn't been the case for me.  i don't feel a stretch.

if anyone really has SPECIFIC advice about how to fix this, i would be incredibly grateful!

before you begin to squat focus on a spot on the wall in front of you slightly higher than your head and continue to focus on the same spot as you descend, this will keep you straight

[Hulkotron]

Fuck static stretching that shit's a waste of time.

Pull your shoulders back and stick your chest out, will help a lot I guarantee.

[Steve Namat]

i lose the arch in my back near the bottom of the squat.  i think this is why i've always sucked at squats and maybe even why i keep getting injured?  does anyone REALLY know how to fix this?  any time i see people talking about this on various boards they say "oh you just need to stretch hamstrings / calves / glutes / etc." but never anything specific.  can this really be fixed by stretching?  if so, how, exactly?  i've also heard people say that the squat is supposed to stretch you out, so it will correct itself in time.  well, this hasn't been the case for me.  i don't feel a stretch.

if anyone really has SPECIFIC advice about how to fix this, i would be incredibly grateful!

Smith machine, leg press...

I don't see a big problem anyway.

[Rammstein]

http://www.70sbig.com/blog/2010/10/the-butt-wink/

[_bruce_]

http://www.70sbig.com/blog/2010/10/the-butt-wink/

Thx 

[Rammstein]

You are welcome.

The guy knows his stuff. Stopping by his blog every day. There is always some useful info.

[cephissus]

See a neurologist. They will also refer you to a physical therapist.
Being concerned about squatting technique seems like a moot point to me when your recovering abilities are worn out.
You're still a young guy, like early-mid twenties? Get help, time off, your body will do the rest.

thanks for the advice.  you seem to know where i'm coming from.