Whats dorians beef with Flex and shawn?

[yates fan]

i am and always have been a yates fan first,but recently came to the conclusion that at their best condition ronnie was slightly better than dorian,but herein lies the argument of all the ronnie vs. dorian threads that would make dorian the better competitive bodybuilder,dorians won-loss record,once he became mr.olympia dorian never lost again and according to judges scorecards dominated in all his victories,ronnie had some close calls in some of his wins i.e.2001 against cutler he was behind going into nite show and then after his reign lost to jay at the o. and subsequent granprixs and got 4th the next year,anyhow physique wise at their best i would give a slight edge to ronnie.

[NarcissisticDeity]

he also retired, knowing he couldn't beat ronnie.  i'd say by the recent Olympia standards he would have been awarded the O in 96 when Yates was all bloat and no bicep. 

Yates wasn't really bloated in 96 he was some what flat , but Shawn did say he deserved to beat Dorian in 94 and 96

The coverage from the 98 Olympia he said Ronnie shouldn't have won because he has a lot of flaws you can't find on him and Flex , said they should have an award for the most improved bodybuilder but the Mr Olympia titles shouldn't be it , that's Shawn if he was born much earlier he would have won but he wasn't beating Haney , Dorian or Ronnie , he might have beaten Jay

[unrageable]

[suckmymuscle]

i am and always have been a yates fan first,but recently came to the conclusion that at their best condition ronnie was slightly better than dorian,but herein lies the argument of all the ronnie vs. dorian threads that would make dorian the better competitive bodybuilder,dorians won-loss record,once he became mr.olympia dorian never lost again and according to judges scorecards dominated in all his victories,ronnie had some close calls in some of his wins i.e.2001 against cutler he was behind going into nite show and then after his reign lost to jay at the o. and subsequent granprixs and got 4th the next year,anyhow physique wise at their best i would give a slight edge to ronnie.

  This is a complete impossibility. This is not a matter of opinion. I would much rather look like francis Benfatto than Dorian, but the bottom line is that Dorian would win. If you base Dorian vs Ronnie on the I.F.B.B's Men Judging Criteria, then Dorian wins almost certainly. Now, opinions are like assholes....

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[NarcissisticDeity]

i am and always have been a yates fan first,but recently came to the conclusion that at their best condition ronnie was slightly better than dorian,but herein lies the argument of all the ronnie vs. dorian threads that would make dorian the better competitive bodybuilder,dorians won-loss record,once he became mr.olympia dorian never lost again and according to judges scorecards dominated in all his victories,ronnie had some close calls in some of his wins i.e.2001 against cutler he was behind going into nite show and then after his reign lost to jay at the o. and subsequent granprixs and got 4th the next year,anyhow physique wise at their best i would give a slight edge to ronnie.

Their best conditions? Ronnie 1998 just barely beat a good Flex by just 3 points , Dorian in 1993 destroyed a near perfect Flex it was NO contest , like Samir said Dorian placed 1st , 2nd and 3rd !

That alone shows Ronnie at his best ( 1998 Mr Olympia which head said was his best on at least 3 occasions and many others ) couldn't handle Dorian

[Parker]

He recently said one of the best physiques he ever seen was Ronnie 1998 sans gyno , Shawn says a lot , he said he was gonna beat Haney bitched about his size , same with Dorian , same with Ronnie , he wanted the sport to bend to his type of physique even went so far as to try and have the judges rotated like they were gonna forget he's severely lacking in muscular bulk 

I think that they should have had the judges rotated...
Both he and Flex had stated that there were competitors that never were compared to the top guys, never got callouts (like Charles Chairmonte, Roland Cziurlock, Patrick Lynn, among others) that could have done well, but the judges were focused on names.

[yates fan]

right a 1998 ronnie would not have beat yates its the supersized ronnie,the first year he supersized that would have taken yates,people that say 98 was ronnies best year just say that cause he was smaller that year which for some is easier to digest,even in 99 he was better than 98,ronnie like yates was better when they were bigger cause they always stayed just as conditioned,remember i am a yates fan like him a lot more than i did ronnie,but ronnie at his most dominant form= slightly better than yates

[unrageable]

1999 is the perfect Ronnie not 1998. 

1999 is the perfect size that can still destroy any competitor today.  His conditioning was excellent at that show as well.

2001 Arnold was also perfect size and conditioning.

2003 was the unheard of size but his conditioning was not his best.

1999 Ronnie > anything today.

back to Dorian...  Dorian is the best.

[NarcissisticDeity]

I think that they should have had the judges rotated...
Both he and Flex had stated that there were competitors that never were compared to the top guys, never got callouts (like Charles Chairmonte, Roland Cziurlock, Patrick Lynn, among others) that could have done well, but the judges were focused on names.

Dorian wasn't a name in 91 , Ronnie wasn't a ' name ' in 98 , Jay wasn't a name in 01 , etc I get the point about some guys not getting compared but do we really need to see a Claude Groulx compared to Ronnie in 1998? it's a time management issue , prejudging would be 12 hours long if that were the case , I get that some guys can get overlooked like Roland did in 94 but you can't compare everyone to everyone.

The judges who preside over the Olympia are picked for their experience , neutrality and consistency , they are on another level than amateur judges and even judges of smaller professional shows , Shawn wanted to try his luck with someone else and it wouldn't have worked anyway , he bitched about the Olympia judges and when he dared to venture out into another smaller show the same thing happened he rarely won for a reason , the judging wasn't the problem his inability to look realistically what where he stood

You could argue his type of physique should win the Olympia , it's more indicative to aesthetic ideals , it's more representative of what direction bodybuilder should be , etc , but the judges have a criteria and they go by that and according to that he shouldn't have ever beaten , Haney , Yates or Coleman.

Shawn did great for himself and had a fantastic physique but it wasn't gonna happen just like Nasser

[NarcissisticDeity]

1999 is the perfect Ronnie not 1998. 

1999 is the perfect size that can still destroy any competitor today.  His conditioning was excellent at that show as well.

2001 Arnold was also perfect size and conditioning.

2003 was the unheard of size but his conditioning was not his best.

1999 Ronnie > anything today.

back to Dorian...  Dorian is the best.

1999 wasn't his best , Ronnie himself ( among many others ) say 1998 Olympia was his best for the simple reason he was lacking nothing , compared to 99 his conditioning was lacking which is why 98 and 01 are lauded as his best showings , and 1998 and 2001 he weighed almost exactly the same 249lbs and 247lbs respectively , 1999 he was heavier ( 257lbs ) but noticeably not as hard or dry ( but good enough to wipe the floor with Flex )

[yates fan]

also in 98 only reason the contest was close was the judges werent scoring ronnie as high in the early comparisons and ronnie had to make up lost ground.i was at this show in newyork and i dont think they even had ronnie in first callout,just because he wasnt a fav.

[The Grim Lifter]

Their best conditions? Ronnie 1998 just barely beat a good Flex by just 3 points , Dorian in 1993 destroyed a near perfect Flex it was NO contest , like Samir said Dorian placed 1st , 2nd and 3rd !

That alone shows Ronnie at his best ( 1998 Mr Olympia which head said was his best on at least 3 occasions and many others ) couldn't handle Dorian

ok i don't want to start a 100 page thread but this is only the case because Ronnie was overlooked that first round. He wasn't expected to look so good so they didn't notice him until the second round. It's not like he changed between rounds.

[unrageable]

synthol wheeler sucks.  dorian destroyed him in 1993 when he looked his best.

then he went texaco thinking he could beat Ronnie in 1998.

dude has mental issues now.

[NarcissisticDeity]

ok i don't want to start a 100 page thread but this is only the case because Ronnie was overlooked that first round. He wasn't expected to look so good so they didn't notice him until the second round. It's not like he changed between rounds.

Overlooked? I don't think so he wasn't called out in the first comparison but he was in the second in the symmetry round , in the muscularity round he was called out in the first round , the scoring discrepancy may be due the fact he had gyno , but either way the picked the rightful winner

[The Grim Lifter]

Overlooked? I don't think so he wasn't called out in the first comparison but he was in the second in the symmetry round , in the muscularity round he was called out in the first round , the scoring discrepancy may be due the fact he had gyno , but either way the picked the rightful winner

Ronnie's scores 17 5 5 5
Flex 5 10 10 10

Ronnie actually came third in the 1st round. Nasser beat him. I remember reading the MM review by Johnny Fitness who said Ronnie's oil was not on right in the first round. Point is, once they noticed him, he was straight firsts over Flex.

[NarcissisticDeity]

Ronnie's scores 17 5 5 5
Flex 5 10 10 10

Ronnie actually came third in the 1st round. Nasser beat him. I remember reading the MM review by Johnny Fitness who said Ronnie's oil was not on right in the first round. Point is, once they noticed him, he was straight firsts over Flex.

He might have been marked down for the gyno 

[Parker]

synthol wheeler sucks.  dorian destroyed him in 1993 when he looked his best.

then he went texaco thinking he could beat Ronnie in 1998.

dude has mental issues now.

It was the car accident that broke Wheeler...no car accident, he'd prolly be 5 time AC winner and might have one Mr. O...it's a blessing in disguise for him. As he was already having kidney issues back in 93...that accident probably delayed a lot of things. Cleaned out his system.

[NarcissisticDeity]

It was the car accident that broke Wheeler...no car accident, he'd prolly be 5 time AC winner and might have one Mr. O...it's a blessing in disguise for him. As he was already having kidney issues back in 93...that accident probably delayed a lot of things. Cleaned out his system.

If he improved from his 93 Olympia showing in 94 and Yates came in the way he did Flex could have beat him in my opinion.

[goomba420]

1999 wasn't his best , Ronnie himself ( among many others ) say 1998 Olympia was his best for the simple reason he was lacking nothing , compared to 99 his conditioning was lacking which is why 98 and 01 are lauded as his best showings , and 1998 and 2001 he weighed almost exactly the same 249lbs and 247lbs respectively , 1999 he was heavier ( 257lbs ) but noticeably not as hard or dry ( but good enough to wipe the floor with Flex )

 

[OTHstrong]

Ronnie's scores 17 5 5 5
Flex 5 10 10 10

Ronnie actually came third in the 1st round. Nasser beat him. I remember reading the MM review by Johnny Fitness who said Ronnie's oil was not on right in the first round. Point is, once they noticed him, he was straight firsts over Flex.

ha, lmao... you mean once they got together as a group and the few that had him in first in the first round influence the others to put him in first, even though he deserved first from the get go, he still fell victim to politics in the first round, but Yates on the other hand was always immune to politics cause he was always a mile ahead of the field. All Ronnies Olympia's are a 2 person show and all Yates are Yates then everyone else.

[yates fan]

that was my point exactly,yates dominated all the olympias he won,ronnie did not.i still feel and this is something that i just recently changed my mind about,that ronnies best shape ever was a bit better than dorians best ever shape.

[The_Hammer]

Somebody post the screen cap from the '96 Olympia where Dorian is making Shawn look like a little boy in the standing relaxed.

[jaejonna]

Flex was probably the most disrespectful and conceited BB of all time...1993 NPC and Arnold everyone was like ..HE IS THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME !!!.. then when it didnt work out he felt 'cheated' nevermind the fact that he put on more lbs than his frame can carry and shot himself up with quarts of castrol...the he looked good at 220 ...

[G_Thang]

i love people who put ronnie's biceps in the same sentence with oil, think ronnie was too proud of his work ethic for that BS.  but check flex's arms.  anyway, phil's arm overall are better than ronnie, but ronnie's split bicep peak is in another world.  overall, ronnie cleans his ass with phil, and phil is narrow enough to fit in.   

that's not the biggest ronnie and he overshadows flex who is bigger than phil.

[NarcissisticDeity]

Somebody post the screen cap from the '96 Olympia where Dorian is making Shawn look like a little boy in the standing relaxed.

He's a newer one