I knew it - Seal Beach - D.A. expects an insanity defense

[avxo]

The majority here want the murderer dead.

Which, of course, doesn't mean anything. We always feel indignation at senseless violence, especially when the end result is death. But we don't just act on that indignation and we don't seek revenge by setting out to kill the killers.

We, as a society, have given the State the power to sentence someone to death. But only under a set of prescribed rules and only for certain crimes. Not under the guidance of random polling. The will of the majority has no bearing -- and rightfully so -- in the criminal justice system. After all, we want justice and not lynch mobs.

If you really believe that the death penalty brings closure to the victims, then I have a question for you: should the death penalty not be used if the victims of the crime (or the surviving family members) are opposed to the death penalty and don't think it will provide them closure? After all, if the point of the death penalty is, as you claim, closure for the victims, then their views on this matter should carry great weight.

[avxo]

The death penalty is the only law mentioned and condoned in the first five books in the Bible, The Torah. The only law.

It sure is...

Gathering sticks on a Sabbath day? The sentence is death. (Numbers 15:32-36)

Offering "strange fire" to the Lord? The sentence is death. (Numbers 3:4)

Touching "holy things?" The sentence is death. (Numbers 4:15-20)

Sickness? The sentence is death. (Number 5:1-4)

Need I go on?

[gh15]

I would not be oppose to the work camp idea.

And if the death penalty is reserve only for the mass murderer, the war criminal, then this begs the question: How many people does someone have to kill before it merits the death penalty. What is the cut off number? Israel does not believe in the death penalty but made one, and only one, exception in it's history by executing Adolf Eichman. It's not sure how many he killed with his own hands but he is certainly responsible for the death camps in Poland and the 400,000+ Hungarians. So what is the magic number? Maybe five hundred? If you kill five hundred people you pay with your life but if you are the unfortunate first 499 victims it's still bad, but just not as bad.

No laws, absolutely no laws, are enforced equally. I read a study that if you drive a red Corvette you are several times more likely to get a speeding ticket than any other sports car and even Vettes of a different color. If you are poor you are more likely to get convicted of any crime. Any crime. Does that mean that because no laws are equally enforced we should get rid of all laws? Is it better to spare ALL the lives of murderers because we don't execute SOME of them. It's just like when people make the argument that there are disproportionately more Blacks in prison than Whites. Does that mean we should let some Black criminals go free to even up the score or try to convict more White criminals?
 
The death penalty is the only law mentioned and condoned in the first five books in the Bible, The Torah. The only law.

there is no magic number,, what there is a defintiion,, the difnisition is CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY sub definition ...crimed of high deamener which resulted in a total devostating and destruction  of people as one can be relegion can be race can be country or state

im not a lawyer to make a law this way but there is a big diff between a ted bundy ....and an usama bin laden ,, a big diff ,,huge diff,, they both murdered but one HURT A COUNTRY TO ITS CORE,,basicaly devostated economy of a good advanced country and sent it back years ...remember dow jons was 13000 back in 1999.... usama sent americana back into no where land when it come to economy ,, and ofcourse murdered thousands upon thousands of people....ted bundy was just not right in the head...psycopath ...big diff ,, ted bundy shoud have been just next to charles manson ,, and this fella shou be there too....and scot peterson too,, and casey antony too ,, all together in there..

death penatly shoudo be reserved to HIGHEST CRIMES of the highest demnors and what this fella did was big crime but not highest,,a timoty mcvey.....this is a death penalty worthy of consideration ,, a mass psycopathic animal such as dr mangale...who took families and isolated them ....and pointed the girls and the babys to go into oven....and the strong brother to go into work ....THATS = death penalty worthy,,when you play god and by god i mean JOHOVA THE GOD of the jew people... is when you deserve to die! and those cases are rare along history

if life in prison was WITH OUT POSSIBILITY OF PAROL and followed on that....then there would be no death panetlys,, the problem is....in americana you put someone in prison for life with no possibility of parol in 2011 ....in 2016 he is already writing books making money and about to go free due to kidny problems... this! is the problems with society that see freedom as top priority

gh15 approved

gh15 approved

[avxo]

... crap snipped...

I got a headache just by looking at that wall of malformed text. Learn how to write please?

[gh15]

I got a headache just by looking at that wall of malformed text. Learn how to write please?

you can kiss my left ball retard,,if you didnt understand every little thing i say you woudnt respond you woudl just ignore : ) but you are attention whore...so you respond

gh15 approved

[avxo]

Wow, what a comeback... Your acerbic wit has crushed me. I lay defeated in the field of text battle. 

[gh15]

good then we can keep ignore eachother,, lol

gh15 approved

[pellius]

Which, of course, doesn't mean anything. We always feel indignation at senseless violence, especially when the end result is death. But we don't just act on that indignation and we don't seek revenge by setting out to kill the killers.

We, as a society, have given the State the power to sentence someone to death. But only under a set of prescribed rules and only for certain crimes. Not under the guidance of random polling. The will of the majority has no bearing -- and rightfully so -- in the criminal justice system. After all, we want justice and not lynch mobs.

If you really believe that the death penalty brings closure to the victims, then I have a question for you: should the death penalty not be used if the victims of the crime (or the surviving family members) are opposed to the death penalty and don't think it will provide them closure? After all, if the point of the death penalty is, as you claim, closure for the victims, then their views on this matter should carry great weight.

When I said the majority want the murderer dead you really thought that implied that we wanted to round out a lynch mob and string him up ourselves.

Closure for the victims was just ONE of the reasons I outlined in my previous post. And not the most important one which is why it was listed last.  But you make a fair challenge. As I understand it, you are saying that if if someone is proven guilty of murder beyond a shadow of a doubt, and the survivors of the victims, immediately family members, are adamantly AGAINST the death penalty, can they stipulate life in prison for the murderer? Yes, I will grant that right if you will accept also that if a family supports the death penalty they must execute the murderer within six months (prefer 3 months) after being found guilty.
 

[dr.chimps]

When I said the majority want the murderer dead you really thought that implied that we wanted to round out a lynch mob and string him up ourselves.

Closure for the victims was just ONE of the reasons I outlined in my previous post. And not the most important one which is why it was listed last.  But you make a fair challenge. As I understand it, you are saying that if if someone is proven guilty of murder beyond a shadow of a doubt, and the survivors of the victims, immediately family members, are adamantly AGAINST the death penalty, can they stipulate life in prison for the murderer? Yes, I will grant that right if you will accept also that if a family supports the death penalty they must execute the murderer within six months (prefer 3 months) after being found guilty.
 

Nothing like adding a new level of arbitrariness to an already-questionable judicial system.  Whee!

[pellius]

Nope. Just your posts. I totally know you're way more intelligent than the droppings you're leaving here, so I'm playing Devil's Advocate. Pay's not so good, but it can be fun of an occasion.  

Thanks for the sentiment, and back at you, but I'm just as corrupt as the rest of the rabble. Just trying, trying, to keep some kind of perspective.  

I don't know why you try to diminish my arguments by simply calling them names rather than address them directly. You seem to have a problem with the notion of punishment and retribution. That somehow wanting someone to pay for their crimes lessens or diminishes the human being. I think it is the opposite. The less harsh the punishment the less egregious you think the crime was. You think all murderers should live. They showed be allowed to have free room and board, free medical, watch TV and movies, read books, have recreational activities (I just saw on PBS a power lifting and boxing club in prison), get married and have sex (Menendez brothers) and a host of other privileges. I'm not saying prison is a picnic but an American prison is no North Korean, Russian of Thai prison.

You want a murderer to still live a relatively comfortable life at the tax payer's expense. I want them dead. I don't see why that makes you better than me.

[pellius]

you can kiss my left ball retard,,if you didnt understand every little thing i say you woudnt respond you woudl just ignore : ) but you are attention whore...so you respond

gh15 approved

Fortunately, your pupils have no problems understanding your post. You bring up  a good point in that the problem with American prisons is how we enforce our laws. How our prison system works. I never thought about it but I like the deal of work camps. Making them pay for their deeds here on earth where their crimes was committed. David Berkowitz, the Son of Sam, and as far as I know the only truly repentant murderer, authorize his lawyer who wanted to write his biography, or anybody else, that they have his full permission to do so  and he will cooperate 100% if, and only if, the profits went to the victim's family. He did not want anybody else to profit from his crimes and sins. I'm sure we can always find something for a murderer to do that will be of benefit for his victims family.

[dyslexic]

Wow, what a comeback... Your acerbic wit has crushed me. I lay defeated in the field of text battle. 

Avxo is a newb. He/She/It (shit) can't possibly know who you are... even a gimmick wouldn't call you out on your *unique* way of communicating to us.


One day he will be PM'ing you and begging for advice just like the rest of us. Ha ha!

[dr.chimps]

I don't know why you try to diminish my arguments by simply calling them names rather than address them directly. You seem to have a problem with the notion of punishment and retribution. That somehow wanting someone to pay for their crimes lessens or diminishes the human being. I think it is the opposite. The less harsh the punishment the less egregious you think the crime was. You think all murderers should live. They showed be allowed to have free room and board, free medical, watch TV and movies, read books, have recreational activities (I just saw on PBS a power lifting and boxing club in prison), get married and have sex (Menendez brothers) and a host of other privileges. I'm not saying prison is a picnic but an American prison is no North Korean, Russian of Thai prison.

You want a murderer to still live a relatively comfortable life at the tax payer's expense. I want them dead. I don't see why that makes you better than me.

Wow! No where have I even intimated such nonsense, let alone posted it. Are you ok? Seriously. Do you just project these fantasies, are you drinking, or are you just being disingenuously provocative a la Rush Limbaugh?

/ and 'I don't see why that makes you better than me.' Argue the issue(s) not some high school histrionic.  

[pellius]

Nothing like adding a new level of arbitrariness to an already-questionable judicial system.  Whee!

Come on, Chimps. YOu are taking this out of context. I was responding to a previous post where I was given a very unlikely hypothetical. Did you read that person's post?

[avxo]

When I said the majority want the murderer dead you really thought that implied that we wanted to round out a lynch mob and string him up ourselves.

No, but I thought it prudent to check.

Closure for the victims was just ONE of the reasons I outlined in my previous post. And not the most important one which is why it was listed last.  But you make a fair challenge. As I understand it, you are saying that if if someone is proven guilty of murder beyond a shadow of a doubt, and the survivors of the victims, immediately family members, are adamantly AGAINST the death penalty, can they stipulate life in prison for the murderer? Yes, I will grant that right if you will accept also that if a family supports the death penalty they must execute the murderer within six months (prefer 3 months) after being found guilty.

No, I was asking if you would agree to that, given that you had listed the closure provided to the victims with an execution. I personally don't think that the punishments meted out by the justice system should be left to the victims. They should be meted out by juries or a Judge, in accordance with the law. Victims are already granted a chance to speak before sentencing, and if they chose to advocate on behalf of the person(s) convicted at that time, then that is their prerogative.

As to your comment about a speedy 6 month time limit on an execution, I think that you need to be realistic: in every State with a death penalty statute, a death penalty verdict means an automatic appeal. It's exceedingly unlikely that even one appeal could be briefed and heard in 3 months, given the current workload of the Courts. I agree that if we do have death penalty verdicts, they need to be executed swiftly, so that we don't end up in the situation we're in now, where someone is on death row for 40 years and dies of natural causes. But "hard" time limits are a bad idea. I would support something along the lines of "within 6 months after appeals have been exhausted."

[pellius]

Wow! No where have I even intimated such nonsense, let alone posted it. Are you ok? Seriously. Do you just project these fantasies, are you drinking, or are you just being disingenuously provocative a la Rush Limbaugh?

/ and 'I don't see why that makes you better than me.' Argue the issue(s) not some high school histrionic.  

OK, I tell you what. Quit playing games and simply state plainly your views on the death penalty, crimes and the role of punishment. What would you do with this particular murderer and why? And would it be different in how you treat all murderers that are guilty beyond a shadow of a doubt.

[pellius]

No, I was asking if you would agree to that, given that you had listed the closure provided to the victims with an execution. I personally don't think that the punishments meted out by the justice system should be left to the victims. They should be meted out by juries or a Judge, in accordance with the law. Victims are already granted a chance to speak before sentencing, and if they chose to advocate on behalf of the person(s) convicted at that time, then that is their prerogative.

As to your comment about a speedy 6 month time limit on an execution, I think that you need to be realistic: in every State with a death penalty statute, a death penalty verdict means an automatic appeal. It's exceedingly unlikely that even one appeal could be briefed and heard in 3 months, given the current workload of the Courts. I agree that if we do have death penalty verdicts, they need to be executed swiftly, so that we don't end up in the situation we're in now, where someone is on death row for 40 years and dies of natural causes. But "hard" time limits are a bad idea. I would support something along the lines of "within 6 months after appeals have been exhausted."

My friend, you gave me a hypothetical so I responded with another hypothetical. In that hypothetical there are no automatic appeals and more endless appeals.

Of course I don't think a victim should determine the fate of the criminal. And never did I imply that. I support the death penalty only in cases where there guilt beyond a shadow of a doubt. I believe O.J. was guilty as sin but would not give him the death penalty. This monster masquerading as a human being is guilty beyond a shadow of a doubt. No need to wait two weeks. 

[avxo]

My friend, you gave me a hypothetical so I responded with another hypothetical. In that hypothetical there are no automatic appeals and more endless appeals.

Of course I don't think a victim should determine the fate of the criminal. And never did I imply that. I support the death penalty only in cases where there guilt beyond a shadow of a doubt. I believe O.J. was guilty as sin but would not give him the death penalty. This monster masquerading as a human being is guilty beyond a shadow of a doubt. No need to wait two weeks. 

That's all fine. I was just pointing that the 3/6 months thing could be problematic. I think that for the most part, we're on the same page.

[pellius]

That's all fine. I was just pointing that the 3/6 months thing could be problematic. I think that for the most part, we're on the same page.

So you're in with Coach, Max_Rep and myself when we bust him out of jail and string him up?

Sweet.

[avxo]

So you're in with Coach, Max_Rep and myself when we bust him out of jail and string him up?

Sweet.

Sounds like too much work. I'll just order a pizza and watch you guys on TV.

[apply85]

actuly MUCH better punishment is work camp in north korea or mother russia....it is much much bettre punishement since you dont take the life but insted you drain it out and make fella think of what they did and know the only way out is the next life when they face true justice,,

this is the best punishment,, life in prison with no possibility of parol or work camp etc WITH NO POSSIBILITY OF PAROL and that mean that even at 70 ....no going out,, this is your new life this is what you do this is how you will ened your life,, you will breath but will be isolated from society with fellas that did what you did ,,

the only time death is justified is when SOMEOEN SUCH AS SERIOUS SERIOUS WAR CRIMINAL LIKE HITLER OR LIKE USAMA DID CONTINUOUS DAMAGE TO A COUNTRY OR TO A PEOPLE ,, OR WHEN SOMEONE CAUSED THE DEATH OF POPULTION VIA BETRAYED IN HIS COUNTRY ,, THAT KIND OF SEVERE SERVEE VERY RARE CRIMES AGAINT HUMANITY

this was very bad,, yes but it wasnt crime against humanity as a all ,, people lost loved ones,, but casey antony took her baby girl and slaped her right and left putting tape on her mouth while giving her poisiton threw her in the woods to be eaten by the rats and what is she doing now? you got that right she is getting her 2 inch french manicure nails done and getting ready for big black joe to come by and knock the day light out of her pussy hole

you cant do death penalty when it is not applied equaly ,, and it is not!,, death penaty should be only executed in THE RAREST MOST UTMOST SEVERE CRIMES WHERE A NATION SUFFERED TREMENDESLY,,and the ones who shoudl decide on the death penalty should nto be jury ...it should be a panel of 3 to 6 judges with high expeience as in 20-30 year at the least in judsging the highest cases of a nation

YOU DONT TAKE LIFE THAT GOD GAVE ,, WHEN YOU DO IT YOU SPIT IN GODS FACE,, WHEN YOU SPIT IN JEHOVAS FACE YOU PAY FOR IT LATER ON ,, THIS IS GOD YOU TALKING ABOUT HERE NOT HIS SON JESUS ,, YOU NEVER EXECUTE GODS ACTIONS FOR GOD ,, GOD IS SOLEY RESONSIBLE FOR THAT..NOT JESUS HIS SON AND NOT THE HOLY SPIRIT,, IT IS GOD! WHO DECIDE WHEN YOU PASS ON! AND ONLY GOD!

gh15 approved

work camp in nk is much worse than death. I'm gonn amake a prediction that no one will remember, nk will go down soon, there will be a huge cover up by china, when the cover fails the biggest humanitarian disaster ever will come to light, people will forget the holocaust ever happened

[apply85]

and the uncontrolled economic growth plus this discovery will lead to a huge depression in china, chinese corruption will be to blame and china will be a democratic republic as a result when it climbs out of depression with the help of the US and its investments in africa

[pellius]

Sounds like too much work. I'll just order a pizza and watch you guys on TV.

Hmmmmm..., pizza. When you put it that way I guess societal justice can wait.

[DK II]

Execute him immediately after he is found guilty .

That's actually what a lot of these people want, they want to get killed by the police on the spot, or would love to get executed right away.


The only thing he doesn't want is to live the rest of his life in jail thinking about what he did.

Calling life in prison "the good life", only in america.....

[dyslexic]

Indertiminate Shoe (SHU) term at Corcoran....


anything but "pleasant"