Author Topic: Richard Dawkins Calls O'Reilly Dumbass.  (Read 45496 times)

suckmymuscle

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Re: Richard Dawkins Calls O'Reilly Dumbass.
« Reply #200 on: October 18, 2011, 09:08:12 AM »
Now lets that be the end of it - God could not possibly exist. And even if he did, it wouldnt change shit.  The Average pesons life will still be just as miserable as it was yesterday.

  It won't end. "Tbombz" likes to argue for the sake of arguing so that he can give the same word 20 different meaning and listen to himself. His posts are rich in verbiage, poor on concepts and he fails at the most basic deductive logic.

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Re: Richard Dawkins Calls O'Reilly Dumbass.
« Reply #201 on: October 18, 2011, 09:18:34 AM »
No, "god = the creator" isn't a definition. A definition provides a description of the nature the scope and the meaning of something. All you've done is provide what you claim is a synonym. If you want to play that game, my next question will be "what is the creator" and you cannot turn around and answer "god" because then you'll have a circular (and therefore useless) definition.

The fact is that your definition, as it stands now, is meaningless.

god= a term for the creator of the universe, a diety which may or may not exist. an incomprehensible figure due to its inherent supernatural nature.



better now idiot ?



You assume that it's a fact, but that doesn't make it so. And you insist on using words out of any rational context and I am not going to let you get away with it. Please explain what "created" means divorced from causality. Please explain how you distinguish between the condition where no Universe exists and where a Universe exists, without using temporal references like "before" "at some point in time" and "after" since those terms are meaningless outside of the Universe.

if there was ever a condition when the universe didnt exist it would have to be located either before, or after the existence of the current universe. in that case the universe was CREATED at some POINT IN TIME. if there was never a condition in which the universe did not exist, then the universe is ETERNAL.

simple. 






 The first cause, by definition, is uncaused. If it weren't, then it wouldn't be the first cause. So you using the expression "uncaused cause" is both a redundancy as well as a logical impossibility. And no, this does not prove the existence of God and here's why. Causality is a function of matter. If you define the substrate of reality as matter, and if you accept that matter only came into being with the Big Bang - and all evidence indicates that - then it makes no sense to speak of causality for the existence of matter. Matter contains the condition that allows causality to start, so reality can spring from nothingness without any required cause since the very existence of cause at the conceptual level only exists after the first cause appeared. No God required. And if causality regresses back ad nauseum - if we assume that quantum fluctuations occur linearly and not in parallel fashion which is what would be required for it to function with time - this also doesen't prove that God exists because then you are saying that God is the first cause, since causality itself could not exist without him . So your argument is self-defeating and a complete logical impossibility - an infinite cause-and-effect chain completely precludes the possibility of the existence of God since it removes from God the property of being responsible for creation since there is no first cause making God not God. And you completely misunderstood Aquinas argument. It had nothing to do with that.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

your close but not quite there. you understand the idea that the vast majority of people on earth believe, that there must have been a first cause. but this is not necessarily true. infinite regression, the eternal universe, is indeed a possibility. and yes, this would discount the need for a god. i dont claim god is a requirement for the existence of the universe. but if there was a first cause, an uncaused cause, then that cause, whatever it was, is god.  you also have the concept of the big bang wrong. matter was not created in the big bang, what happened was a point of "infinite' density exploded and spread its contents out into the universe. that point of density was and contained all the matter that exists today. moreover, quantum fluctuations are a thing in and of themselves and they are subject to questions of causality as well. where did quantum fluctuations come from and what causes them to happen? we either follow this chain to an infinite regression or we accept creation.

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Re: Richard Dawkins Calls O'Reilly Dumbass.
« Reply #202 on: October 18, 2011, 11:11:27 AM »
in the big bang, what happened was

Did you just claim to Know what happened in Big Bang?


STOP THE PRESSES!!!!

suckmymuscle

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Re: Richard Dawkins Calls O'Reilly Dumbass.
« Reply #203 on: October 18, 2011, 11:11:49 AM »

your close but not quite there. you understand the idea that the vast majority of people on earth believe, that there must have been a first cause. but this is not necessarily true. infinite regression, the eternal universe, is indeed a possibility. and yes, this would discount the need for a god. i dont claim god is a requirement for the existence of the universe. but if there was a first cause, an uncaused cause, then that cause, whatever it was, is god.  you also have the concept of the big bang wrong. matter was not created in the big bang, what happened was a point of "infinite' density exploded and spread its contents out into the universe. that point of density was and contained all the matter that exists today. moreover, quantum fluctuations are a thing in and of themselves and they are subject to questions of causality as well. where did quantum fluctuations come from and what causes them to happen? we either follow this chain to an infinite regression or we accept creation.

  You keep talking about the "uncaused cause". By definition the first cause does not require a cause. So no God necessary. It does not require a God because the very process of causality starts with the first cause. The first cause can spring from nothingness because it is conditione sine qua non for it to be the first cause that it does not require a cause. And the first cause can be God, but it doesen't need to be. Sure, you can choose to call the most basic of quantum fluctuations God - assuming that the most fundamental propert of existence is some very basic quantum fluctuation - if you want, but that would be something that has nothing in common with the conception of God as most religions conceive it. It wouldn't be self-aware, and it wouldn't have created the Universe to serve any purpose like most religions conceive of God. As for an infinite chain of causality, I have already addressed that. If there was no first cause, then there is no God because it is a pre-requisite for God being God that he is the first cause. If there is no first cause but there is a God, then this means that God simply lacks the fundamental attribute for being God since he must be responsible for Creation for him to be God. And don't try to correct me on the Big Bang. Matter did originate with the Big Bang. There was no matter before the Big Bang because there was no before. Matter was infinitely compressed at the moment the Big Bang happened, but it also came into being at that moment. Matter is the fundamental property of reality without which time doesen't exist. So matter came into being and then time started. Matter could not have originated "before" the Big Bang because there was no before since matter creates time itself that allows for a "before".

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Re: Richard Dawkins Calls O'Reilly Dumbass.
« Reply #204 on: October 18, 2011, 11:14:03 AM »
I think we're just vessels which are tuning into some sort of direction where to go/do as in getting our "Consciousness" from somewhere . And  currently we're helping the lifeform called techonolgy to eventually take over DING DING.

Graham Hancock explains its better lol.

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Re: Richard Dawkins Calls O'Reilly Dumbass.
« Reply #205 on: October 18, 2011, 11:16:22 AM »
 You keep talking about the "uncaused cause". By definition the first cause does not require a cause. So no God necessary. It does not require a God because the very process of causality starts with the first cause. The first cause can spring from nothingness because it is conditione sine qua non for it to be the first cause that it does not require a cause. And the first cause can be God, but it doesen't need to be. Sure, you can choose to call the most basic of quantum fluctuations God - assuming that the most fundamental propert of existence is some very basic quantum fluctuation - if you want, but that would be something that has nothing in common with the conception of God as most religions conceive it. It wouldn't be self-aware, and it wouldn't have created the Universe to serve any purpose like most religions conceive of God. As for an infinite chain of causality, I have already addressed that. If there was no first cause, then there is no God because it is a pre-requisite for God being God that he is the first cause. If there is no first cause but there is a God, then this means that God simply lacks the fundamental attribute for being God since he must be responsible for Creation for him to be God. And don't try to correct me on the Big Bang. Matter did originate with the Big Bang. There was no matter before the Big Bang because there was no before. Matter was infinitely compressed at the moment the Big Bang happened, but it also came into being at that moment. Matter is the fundamental property of reality without which time doesen't exist. So matter came into being and then time started. Matter could not have originated "before" the Big Bang because there was no before since matter creates time itself that allows for a "before".

SUCKMYMUSCLE

  ha ha ha ahanahahah...this "sukmuscle" guy is obliterating "tbombz" in this discussion...,,,,,it like watching an adult beating on a toddler...

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Re: Richard Dawkins Calls O'Reilly Dumbass.
« Reply #206 on: October 18, 2011, 12:31:24 PM »
 You keep talking about the "uncaused cause". By definition the first cause does not require a cause. So no God necessary. It does not require a God because the very process of causality starts with the first cause. The first cause can spring from nothingness because it is conditione sine qua non for it to be the first cause that it does not require a cause. And the first cause can be God, but it doesen't need to be. Sure, you can choose to call the most basic of quantum fluctuations God - assuming that the most fundamental propert of existence is some very basic quantum fluctuation - if you want, but that would be something that has nothing in common with the conception of God as most religions conceive it. It wouldn't be self-aware, and it wouldn't have created the Universe to serve any purpose like most religions conceive of God. As for an infinite chain of causality, I have already addressed that. If there was no first cause, then there is no God because it is a pre-requisite for God being God that he is the first cause. If there is no first cause but there is a God, then this means that God simply lacks the fundamental attribute for being God since he must be responsible for Creation for him to be God. And don't try to correct me on the Big Bang. Matter did originate with the Big Bang. There was no matter before the Big Bang because there was no before. Matter was infinitely compressed at the moment the Big Bang happened, but it also came into being at that moment. Matter is the fundamental property of reality without which time doesen't exist. So matter came into being and then time started. Matter could not have originated "before" the Big Bang because there was no before since matter creates time itself that allows for a "before".

SUCKMYMUSCLE

your slowly coming along.

your displaying a lakc of understanding of the big bang theory however.  what we know is that the universe is expanding outwards, based on the rate its expanding and what we know of its boundaries we use simple arithmetic to calculate that about 13.7 billion years ago the universe was in a state of extreme density and heat. at this time it started expanding, for whatever reaosn. there are theories as to why but they arent pertanent. what is pertanent is that we dont know if that dense, hot state of the universe just "appeared" out of nothing, or if it had existed for a period of time, or an eternity, before that. 

there are two possible scenarios, infinite regression and an eternal universe. or a universe with a "starting point", a "first cause", or when it was created.

science tells us that nothing happens for no reason. causality always applies. even when particles pop into existence out of no where, there was a cause.. a quantum fluctuation. we dont know yet what the cause of quantum fluctuations is. if there is one that we can decipher.

if there is indeed a "first cause", whatever that cause was, by defintion, has to be SUPERNATURAL, because it will be defying the law of causality.  if there was a supernatural first cause, its quite obvious that cause was god. as to the nature of god, if god exists, we have no idea.   and its possible no such god exists, but for that to be the case the universe and all of its potentialities have to be eternal.





suckmymuscle

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Re: Richard Dawkins Calls O'Reilly Dumbass.
« Reply #207 on: October 18, 2011, 02:10:50 PM »
your slowly coming along.

  It is completely pointless debating you. I won't address your post because you just repeated verbatim your previous post and I have already addressed every point you made and you act like you have something knew by just changing the ordering of your words or using synonyms. I also suggest you go take an introductory course on cosmology and physics, as you obviously lack even basic knowledge on these subjects. I also suggest you take an introductory course on logic, as you seem to have difficulty grasping and making logical deductions on a very basic and primary level.

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Re: Richard Dawkins Calls O'Reilly Dumbass.
« Reply #208 on: October 18, 2011, 02:17:36 PM »
  It is completely pointless debating you. I won't address your post because you just repeated verbatim your previous post and I have already addressed every point you made and you act like you have something knew by just changing the ordering of your words or using synonyms. I also suggest you go take an introductory course on cosmology and physics, as you obviously lack even basic knowledge on these subjects. I also suggest you take an introductory course on logic, as you seem to have difficulty grasping and making logical deductions on a very basic and primary level.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

Dude it's clear to anyone with half a brain you crushed him utterly ,  he was in way over his head trying to ' debate ' you and he thinks he can grind the conversation down to a halt with semantics and circular reasoning and claim some half ass victory  :-\

I'll give tbombz credit for attempting too make a point and trying to elaborate on it.

suckmymuscle

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Re: Richard Dawkins Calls O'Reilly Dumbass.
« Reply #209 on: October 18, 2011, 02:25:42 PM »
Dude it's clear to anyone with half a brain you crushed him utterly ,  he was in way over his head trying to ' debate ' you and he thinks he can grind the conversation down to a halt with semantics and circular reasoning and claim some half ass victory  :-\

I'll give tbombz credit for attempting too make a point and trying to elaborate on it.

  Thanks, man. The problem with these debates is that it is not about establishing truth but about "winning". Keeping the debate alive by appealing to semantics, tautological arguments and coming up with straw mans and attacking them is the only way to keep the debate alive and pretend like you are not losing when all the evidence and especially logic is on your side. Hulkster did that to you in the Truce Thread, and "tbombz" is doing it to me in this thread.

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tbombz

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Re: Richard Dawkins Calls O'Reilly Dumbass.
« Reply #210 on: October 18, 2011, 02:32:35 PM »
um, you dont understand the big bang theory as you claim that all the matter in the universe was created during the "bang".  you dont understand the possibility of infinite regression and the eternal universe. and you dont understand that a first cause is by defintion supernatural.

 im not going in circles and im not playing games with words.

two options= eternal, uncreated universe OR a universe that was created.  no others.

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Re: Richard Dawkins Calls O'Reilly Dumbass.
« Reply #211 on: October 18, 2011, 02:43:53 PM »
um, you dont understand the big bang theory as you claim that all the matter in the universe was created during the "bang".  you dont understand the possibility of infinite regression and the eternal universe. and you dont understand that a first cause is by defintion supernatural.

 im not going in circles and im not playing games with words.

two options= eternal, uncreated universe OR a universe that was created.  no others.

You're just repeating the same worn out shit every single time. You've proven yourself to be absolutely clueless when it comes to any kind of science. Read a goddamn book or hundred and then come back.
from incomplete data

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Re: Richard Dawkins Calls O'Reilly Dumbass.
« Reply #212 on: October 18, 2011, 03:16:27 PM »
If we could somehow harnass the intellectual power of the contributors in this thread......

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Re: Richard Dawkins Calls O'Reilly Dumbass.
« Reply #213 on: October 18, 2011, 04:11:38 PM »
they're both dumbasses

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Re: Richard Dawkins Calls O'Reilly Dumbass.
« Reply #214 on: October 18, 2011, 05:06:26 PM »
You're just repeating the same worn out shit every single time. You've proven yourself to be absolutely clueless when it comes to any kind of science. Read a goddamn book or hundred and then come back.
i keep repeating it because what im saying is fact and undebatable. if you have something of substance to contribute go ahead and do so. saying "you dont know shit" doesnt help your argument.

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Re: Richard Dawkins Calls O'Reilly Dumbass.
« Reply #215 on: October 18, 2011, 05:36:29 PM »
All generalisations are dangerous, including this one!
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Re: Richard Dawkins Calls O'Reilly Dumbass.
« Reply #216 on: October 18, 2011, 08:06:07 PM »
god= a term for the creator of the universe, a diety which may or may not exist. an incomprehensible figure due to its inherent supernatural nature.

You repeated the same thing you said before. You've achieved nothing, short of admiting that the deity you claim to define is incomprehensible, and therefore undefinable...


if there was ever a condition when the universe didnt exist it would have to be located either before, or after the existence of the current universe.

There you go again, applying temporal and causal semantics when those semantics are inapplicable. Time is a property of the universe. The term "before" as we understand it is meaningless outside the universe because time as we define it is meaningless. The same goes for causality: it works within a temporal framework. Remove the framework and causality is broken since there is no time.

But it's now clear to me that you aren't just stupid - you are unwilling to even debate the issue honestly. You skip over whatever is written and vomit a cud of the crap that has just been debunked right back out in the form of a new post.

tbombz

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Re: Richard Dawkins Calls O'Reilly Dumbass.
« Reply #217 on: October 18, 2011, 09:31:36 PM »
if time cant be used then it cant be used when discussing something outside of the universe. in order for something outside of the universe to exist, the SUPERNATURAL must exist. thats the defintion of supernatural.

SO... either the supernatural exists... or we can always use time. if we can aways use time, the universe is eternal since nothing outside of it exists.

two options= eternal universe or the existence of the supernatural.

 if you cant understand that you arent trying.

Radical Plato

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Re: Richard Dawkins Calls O'Reilly Dumbass.
« Reply #218 on: October 18, 2011, 09:36:55 PM »
if time cant be used then it cant be used when discussing something outside of the universe. in order for something outside of the universe to exist, the SUPERNATURAL must exist. thats the defintion of supernatural.

SO... either the supernatural exists... or we can always use time. if we can aways use time, the universe is eternal since nothing outside of it exists.

two options= eternal universe or the existence of the supernatural.

 if you cant understand that you arent trying.
God paradoxically exists and doesnt at the same time. So both theories are valid. So pat yourselves on the back gentleman. We sorted this Shit.  I dont know about you, but I am going to celebrate with some ERB sent from EAVEN, AAI. Thank God for Tetrahydrocannabinol.

 ;D
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Re: Richard Dawkins Calls O'Reilly Dumbass.
« Reply #219 on: October 18, 2011, 09:37:43 PM »
God paradoxically exists and doesnt at the same time. So both theories are valid. So pack yourselves on the back gentleman. We sorted this Shit.  I dont know about you, but I am going to celebrate with some ERB sent from EAVEN, AAI. Thank God for Tetrahydrocannabinol.

 ;D
no, either he exists or he doesnt.


enjoy your weed.  i had to quit two weeks ago.

Radical Plato

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Re: Richard Dawkins Calls O'Reilly Dumbass.
« Reply #220 on: October 18, 2011, 09:41:12 PM »
]
God paradoxically exists and doesnt at the same time. So both theories are valid. So pat yourselves on the back gentleman. We sorted this Shit.  I dont know about you, but I am going to celebrate with some ERB sent from EAVEN, AAI. Thank God for Tetrahydrocannabinol.

 ;D
enjoy your weed.  i had to quit two weeks ago.
[/quote  ;D
No wonder you aare being so Obtuse
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Radical Plato

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Re: Richard Dawkins Calls O'Reilly Dumbass.
« Reply #221 on: October 18, 2011, 09:51:51 PM »
no, either he exists or he doesnt.
Well that's what a paradox is, something that defies logic, but actually exists.  Like a bumblebee not being aerodynamically set up to fly, but does anyway.  Paradoxes dont make sense.  That's the beauty of them.  So you are both a douchebag and a decent human being all at the same time see.  Paradox.
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Re: Richard Dawkins Calls O'Reilly Dumbass.
« Reply #222 on: October 19, 2011, 12:23:09 AM »
nice lookin weed.. i had to stop cuz it kills my motivation and i need to start working..   but when i was smoking i was getting purple buds like these







for $10/gram.. 1/8th ounce for $30.. 1/4 ounce for $50... 1/2 ounce for $90

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Re: Richard Dawkins Calls O'Reilly Dumbass.
« Reply #223 on: October 19, 2011, 12:56:24 AM »
nice lookin weed.. i had to stop cuz it kills my motivation and i need to start working..   but when i was smoking i was getting purple buds like these







for $10/gram.. 1/8th ounce for $30.. 1/4 ounce for $50... 1/2 ounce for $90
All this deep philosophical discussion, and all you need to distract a man, is a photo of a big juicy bud.
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Re: Richard Dawkins Calls O'Reilly Dumbass.
« Reply #224 on: October 19, 2011, 07:08:31 AM »
Before we proceed on discussing bing bang theory... What is your profession tdongs, what and where do you study or graduate?

I always get frustrated when I see people who would fail on most simple math problem... Let alone more sophisticated physics who discuss things they simply CANNOT comprehend.