Who wins? Dorian '96 German GP or Ronnie '00 English GP?

[NeoSeminole]

explain to me again how Joe Weider established the judging criteria because there were NO contests before the IFBB

I'm still waiting for you to explain how guessing a person's body fat and water is objective

Big difference between popular opinion on a subjective subject and conditioning which really isn't subjective , learn the difference

[NarcissisticDeity]

I'm still waiting for you to explain how guessing a person's body fat and water is objective

The person doing the critique is being objective and has years of experience in physique analysis , so his opinion is objective. When McGough says Ronnie was never harder or drier than Dorian he's being objective



Answer the question now kid , explain to me how he established the judging criteria , I know you can't I'm just exposing your stupidity , like there were NO contests before the IFBB , because there weren't physique contests since the 19th Century 

Neo you're stupid , now normally I would say you're ignorant and that's not a bad thing because we're all ignorant at some point , however you commit to responses without knowing the facts or bothering to check it out , you do this constantly and always end up looking like an idiot for trying to be knowledgeable when you're not

You're not here to debate only looking for some e-revenge because I constantly expose just how dumb you are , Hulkster is like that too , keep trolling kid , I'll keep correcting.

[NeoSeminole]

The person doing the critique is being objective and has years of experience in physique analysis , so his opinion is objective. When McGough says Ronnie was never harder or drier than Dorian he's being objective

the people who guess your weight at carnival booths have years of experience but their "critique" is still subjective. If it were objective, then it would match the weight on the scale every time. The fact is that you got caught trying to pass off a person's opinion as fact because it helps your argument. However, no human - not even Peter McGough - can guess a person's body fat and water as accurately as calipers done by a professional, let alone hydrostatic weighing

Answer the question now kid , explain to me how he established the judging criteria , I know you can't I'm just exposing your stupidity , like there were NO contests before the IFBB , because there weren't physique contests since the 19th Century

show me where I said there were no bodybuilding contests before the IFBB. Go ahead

I explicitly said Joe Weider is co-founder of the IFBB. He was there when they decided on the judging criteria. Even if he copied it from elsewhere, it's irrelevant since I never made the claim he invented bodybuilding contests

[NarcissisticDeity]

the people who guess your weight at carnival booths have years of experience but their "critique" is still subjective. If it were objective, then it would match the weight on the scale every time. The fact is that you got caught trying to pass off a person's opinion as fact because it helps your argument. However, no human - not even Peter McGough - can guess a person's body fat and water as accurately as calipers done by a professional, let alone hydrostatic weighing

show me where I said there were no bodybuilding contests before the IFBB. Go ahead

I explicitly said Joe Weider is co-founder of the IFBB. He was there when they decided on the judging criteria. Even if he copied it from elsewhere, it's irrelevant since I never made the claim he invented bodybuilding contests

the people who guess your weight at carnival booths have years of experience but their "critique" is still subjective. If it were objective, then it would match the weight on the scale every time. The fact is that you got caught trying to pass off a person's opinion as fact because it helps your argument. However, no human - not even Peter McGough - can guess a person's body fat and water as accurately as calipers done by a professional, let alone hydrostatic weighing

What a dumb ass analogy , I was expecting as much , you asked how it's objective and I explained how his conclusion is McGough is NOT trying to guess a number or a percentage of bodyfat big difference

I've showed you before side-by-side comparisons of Ronnie to show you exactly which year ( 1998 ) he was leaner and drier compared to himself in 2003 , I can tell you objectively that Ronnie is carrying less bodyfat and he's drier in this comparison and this is just going off pictures because that's all I have to offer

show me where I said there were no bodybuilding contests before the IFBB. Go ahead

I explicitly said Joe Weider is co-founder of the IFBB. He was there when they decided on the judging criteria. Even if he copied it from elsewhere, it's irrelevant since I never made the claim he invented bodybuilding contests

Another lame attempt at avoiding the question , how did he establish the judging criteria , stop trying to divert the question with ' I never said there were no bodybuilding contests before the IFBB ' 

And NO you never said ' he was there when they decided on the judging ' now you're looking for a way out , you specifically said ' he established the judging criteria ' again , answer how HE established the judging criteria. You're not getting off easy

I said ' like there were no contests before the IFBB '  notice I said it , I never said you claimed it. but hey you're looking for a way out of a really dumb statement , not your first time nor your last.

[NarcissisticDeity]

Look I can ascertain Ronnie is harder and drier on the left without using a calipers or hydro-statically weighing them 

[NeoSeminole]

What a dumb ass analogy , I was expecting as much , you asked how it's objective and I explained how his conclusion is McGough is NOT trying to guess a number or a percentage of bodyfat big difference

I've showed you before side-by-side comparisons of Ronnie to show you exactly which year ( 1998 ) he was leaner and drier compared to himself in 2003 , I can tell you objectively that Ronnie is carrying less bodyfat and he's drier in this comparison and this is just going off pictures because that's all I have to offer

what a childish response. I expected as much from you. No, you cannot tell objectively that Ronnie is carrying less body fat and water. Comparing 03 Ronnie to 01 ASC Ronnie won't help your argument b/c we're not comparing apples and oranges. You claimed that Dorian was harder and drier than 01 ASC Ronnie b/c Peter McGough said so, and even went on to say that his opinion is "objective." Both men at their prime were so close in conditioning that it is impossible to discern who carried less body fat and water with the naked eye. You need an objective method of measure like hydrostatic weighing that will give you accurate, precise results every time

Another lame attempt at avoiding the question , how did he establish the judging criteria , stop trying to divert the question with ' I never said there were no bodybuilding contests before the IFBB '  

And NO you never said ' he was there when they decided on the judging ' now you're looking for a way out , you specifically said ' he established the judging criteria ' again , answer how HE established the judging criteria. You're not getting off easy

I said ' like there were no contests before the IFBB '  notice I said it , I never said you claimed it. but hey you're looking for a way out of a really dumb statement , not your first time nor your last.

lol, I just explained it to you. Re-read my post. I didn't use any big words or confusing grammar. I said he was involved in the decision-making when the Weider brothers decided on what criteria to adopt when they drafted the IFBB judging criteria

[NarcissisticDeity]

what a childish response. I expected as much from you. No, you cannot tell objectively that Ronnie is carrying less body fat and water. Comparing 03 Ronnie to 01 ASC Ronnie won't help your argument b/c we're not comparing apples and oranges. You claimed that Dorian was harder and drier than 01 ASC Ronnie b/c Peter McGough said so, and even went on to say that his opinion is "objective." Both men at their prime were so close in conditioning that it is impossible to discern who carried less body fat and water with the naked eye. You need an objective method of measure like hydrostatic weighing that will give you accurate, precise results every time

lol, I just explained it to you. Re-read my post. I didn't use any big words or confusing grammar. I said he was involved in the decision-making when the Weider brothers decided on what criteria to adopt when they drafted the IFBB judging criteria

what a childish response. I expected as much from you. No, you cannot tell objectively that Ronnie is carrying less body fat and water. Comparing 03 Ronnie to 01 ASC Ronnie won't help your argument b/c we're not comparing apples and oranges. You claimed that Dorian was harder and drier than 01 ASC Ronnie b/c Peter McGough said so, and even went on to say that his opinion is "objective." Both men at their prime were so close in conditioning that it is impossible to discern who carried less body fat and water with the naked eye. You need an objective method of measure like hydrostatic weighing that will give you accurate, precise results every time

Wow wanna copy my response some more?  can you get any more lame?

I just proved period end of sentence you can objectively ascertain that someone is carrying less bodyfat and water. What else can you say? admit you're wrong? lol your foolish pride wont allow that.

Both men at their primes were so close in conditioning? according to whom? you? where is your proof? I've entertain this point for the sake of argument but I honestly don't have to , Seeing McGough and Dorian as well as Peter Horton have said Dorian has the edge in conditioning directly over Ronnie .

lol, I just explained it to you. Re-read my post. I didn't use any big words or confusing grammar. I said he was involved in the decision-making when the Weider brothers decided on what criteria to adopt when they drafted the IFBB judging criteria

No you didn't , stop avoiding the question he established the judging criteria this is your original statement , how did he establish the judging criteria? now you're forced to amend it to ' he was involved '

answer the question he established the judging criteria , how did he establish the judging criteria?

I know you wont answer because you can't because as usual you don't know what you're talking about.

[NeoSeminole]

Wow wanna copy my response some more? can you get any more lame?

I just proved period end of sentence you can objectively ascertain that someone is carrying less bodyfat and water. What else can you say? admit you're wrong? lol your foolish pride wont allow that.

Both men at their primes were so close in conditioning? according to whom? you? where is your proof? I've entertain this point for the sake of argument but I honestly don't have to , Seeing McGough and Dorian as well as Peter Horton have said Dorian has the edge in conditioning directly over Ronnie .

No you didn't , stop avoiding the question he established the judging criteria this is your original statement , how did he establish the judging criteria? now you're forced to amend it to ' he was involved '

answer the question he established the judging criteria , how did he establish the judging criteria?

I know you wont answer because you can't because as usual you don't know what you're talking about.

meltdown, lol

[NarcissisticDeity]

meltdown, lol

Thanks for playing Neo 

[NeoSeminole]

it's fun watching ND get owned again and again

[Nirvana]

let me guess, you never actually used the word "perfect" so it's therefore like all the pitures of ronnie raping dorian


it doesn't count   

Hahaha predicted perfectly.  typical semantics word gaming to try and talk his way out.

we all know what Nd thinks of the judges opinion now it's being used against him and he doesn't know what to do

I don't see the word perfect do you?  no backpedaling ,show me where I said they were perfect , I'll be waiting.

[Nirvana]

Oh boy lol , it's an opinion that 12 individuals are come to the exact same conclusion on. their opinion is knowledge , informed and unbiased , everything yours is NOT which is exactly why you come to some of your wacky conclusion , ignorance. You don't even know what it takes to judge at the Olympia level and how judges are chosen and you don't care , you've made up your mind and nothing is gonna change it

Their opinions are FACTS and the fact is their opinion made Heath Mr Olympia and Jay second and Wolf not even close , the general bodybuilding population do NOT judge contest so their opinion on the subject means fuck-all in the scheme of things and the general bodybuilding population are all like you , clueless on how the game is even played , yet you think your opinion matters , your opinion is just as you projected on the judges , bias , ignorant and flawed.

go learn how contests are judged and then you'll have a clue , if not keep bitching on the internets it's working out great for thus far.

I don't see the word perfect do you?  no backpedaling ,show me where I said they were perfect , I'll be waiting.

oh he never actually used the word "perfect"

he must have meant something entirely different in the first post 

it's just like all the visual evidence of ronnie raping dorian.  "it doesn't count"

maybe if ND wasn't always losing these arguments he wouldn't have to make up excuses on why nothing counts.

[NarcissisticDeity]

Hahaha predicted perfectly.  typical semantics word gaming to try and talk his way out.

we all know what Nd thinks of the judges opinion now it's being used against him and he doesn't know what to do

et's use NDs logic that the judges are perfect.


Ronnie > Dorian due to more olympia wins.  fact, the judges said so.

Nd will now reply that ronnie never beat dorian onstage.  to which I reply "ronnie hadn't peaked yet."

to prove this we look at ronnies placing improvement from 97 to 98.  ronnie got better, the judges said so. fact.  




now we will back this theory up with hard proof.  the pictures are irrefutable because both competitors are at their widely believed best condition.  Nd will say the picture isn't scaled correctly by doing so admitting that ronnie is better.  but even without the picture we have used nd's logic to finally prove that ronnie > dorian.

Your original statement . piss-poor logic and why? I already explained this to you.

Your point is Ronnie beats Dorian because he has more Olympia wins? this has to be the weakest argument for Ronnie being better , because as explained before NONE of them were against Dorian , so that point moot


your response is ' well Ronnie didn't peak yet ' and? Dorian's fault Ronnie wasn't good enough to even come close? nope

Ronnie competed against Dorian 8 times and lost every single time , the closest he ever came was a distant sixth place.

To further embarrass your train of ' logic ' Ronnie improved from 97-98 and? this only proves that Dorian would beat him if anything , if Dorian at his absolute worse crushed Ronnie in 1997 and Ronnie was close to his best , what's that say about Dorian at his best?

Ronnie beat Flex in 98 by just 3 points at what Ronnie and many others consider his best , and Flex at his best 1993 couldn't even touch Dorian in 93 , that leads us to believe Dorian would easily beat Ronnie at his


On the subject of your ' hard proof ' lmfao we touched on that before , 2003 is NOT his best and needless to say the pictures aren't scaled properly and made by an obvious Ronnie fan-boy , and this pic entertaining it was scaled correctly proves what? Ronnie wins a single pose? how about the other mandatories ? opppssss post one pic declare proof-positive Ronnie wins  

you fail on so many levels it's not funny . you're hopeless bro , keep trying though.

[NarcissisticDeity]

oh he never actually used the word "perfect"

he must have meant something entirely different in the first post 

it's just like all the visual evidence of ronnie raping dorian.  "it doesn't count"

maybe if ND wasn't always losing these arguments he wouldn't have to make up excuses on why nothing counts.

I never said perfect and I do stand by what I said about the judges



lol visual evidence of Ronnie raping Dorian , according to who? Ronnie fan-boys who create these elaborate ' comparisons ' where Dorian's waist is narrower than Ronnie and Ronnie's calves are bigger than Dorian's ? you mean the ' comparisons ' where Ronnie's is twice the size of Dorian despite weighing 20lbs lighter LMFAO

Only in your fanciful creations does Ronnie beat Dorian because the reality is Dorian handed Ronnie is ass for years on end.

This is reality kid

[no one]

x2
Everything that needs to be said had already been. Ronnie has the superior structure and fullness, but Dorian is drier, better balanced and has equal or greater size. (Even with his shitty biceps)

well said.

ronnie- fullness, shape (structure) and size

dorian- granite hard muscle, paper thin skin and bang on conditioning and size.

both great in their own ways.

[NarcissisticDeity]

well said.

ronnie- fullness, shape (structure) and size

dorian- granite hard muscle, paper thin skin and bang on conditioning and size.

both great in their own ways.

Yes both great in their own ways

The criteria favor's Dorian though

[NeoSeminole]

give it up, ND. You lost

[NarcissisticDeity]

give it up, ND. You lost

Maybe I should give up like you and type ' meltdown ' 

[Bam-bam]

I never said perfect and I do stand by what I said about the judges



lol visual evidence of Ronnie raping Dorian , according to who? Ronnie fan-boys who create these elaborate ' comparisons ' where Dorian's waist is narrower than Ronnie and Ronnie's calves are bigger than Dorian's ? you mean the ' comparisons ' where Ronnie's is twice the size of Dorian despite weighing 20lbs lighter LMFAO

Only in your fanciful creations does Ronnie beat Dorian because the reality is Dorian handed Ronnie is ass for years on end.




This is reality kid

Whats their weight there and are there other real comparison (side by side) of them?

[RocketSwitch625]

It's lovely to see Neosemen bullshitting on this forum again. He's a real glutton for punishment when it comes to the Yates vs. Coleman mass debate. I remember when his signature used to read "all the nice boys love sea men".

[NeoSeminole]

It's lovely to see Neosemen bullshitting on this forum again. He's a real glutton for punishment when it comes to the Yates vs. Coleman mass debate. I remember when his signature used to read "all the nice boys love sea men".

can't get cock off your mind? That's not gay. Not gay at all

[RocketSwitch625]

I am currently working on a slideshow of pics taken at various DY seminars/guest appearances I attended throughout the 90s. It will prove once and for all how superior Yates was to Coleman and every other Olympia champion before or since. 

[NarcissisticDeity]

can't get cock off your mind? That's not gay. Not gay at all

No nothing Gay at all 

[NeoSeminole]

No nothing Gay at all

says the queen.. I mean guy, who makes homosexual references and acknowledges he's gay

[NarcissisticDeity]

says the queen.. I mean guy, who makes homosexual references and acknowledges he's gay

Another Neo fail 

So about Joe Weider and the judging criteria? yeah I thought so    run Forest run