Author Topic: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?  (Read 21250 times)

abijahmaniaco

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Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
« Reply #125 on: November 06, 2011, 05:32:48 AM »
That goes against everything I have ever read, dos anyone have any studies or articles from well respected experts in the field to prove\disprove this?I have always been led to believe that any drug gains would be lost on ceasing all use of them.

ok, you ask so i tell, even though god himself already confirmed this above.

this is from, like most of the things i learned initially, llewellyn.

Are the gains from stroid use temporary?

Yes, and no. Steroids can help you do two basic things with regard to muscle growth. First, they can allow you to more rapidly reach your genetic limits for muscle growth. Provided you continue to train actively, eat properly, and use an effective PCT program, you should be able to maintain at your genetic limit indefinitely. So in this regard, the early gains do not have to be temporary.

Later, steroids can allow you to push well beyond your genetic limits. It is important to emphasize this, as extreme physical development cannot be maintained long-term without the repeat administration of anabolic substances. The body will always revert back towards its normal metabolic limits once AAS are removed. In this context, some of the gains will not be permanent.

Steroids do permanently alter the physiology of your muscles by adding more cellular nuclei. With higher nuclei content, each muscle cell can manage it's volume more efficiently, which allows more rapid expansion. Even after a long period of complete abstinence from training and AAS, the nuclei remain. This may provide a "muscle memory" effect, allowing you to reach your genetic limit (perhaps a slightly extended limit) faster than if you had never used AAS in the past So in this regard, there are lasting benefits beyond the temporary increase in muscle size itself.

Army of One

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Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
« Reply #126 on: November 06, 2011, 05:44:28 AM »
ok, you ask so i tell, even though god himself already confirmed this above.

this is from, like most of the things i learned initially, llewellyn.

Are the gains from stroid use temporary?

Yes, and no. Steroids can help you do two basic things with regard to muscle growth. First, they can allow you to more rapidly reach your genetic limits for muscle growth. Provided you continue to train actively, eat properly, and use an effective PCT program, you should be able to maintain at your genetic limit indefinitely. So in this regard, the early gains do not have to be temporary.

Later, steroids can allow you to push well beyond your genetic limits. It is important to emphasize this, as extreme physical development cannot be maintained long-term without the repeat administration of anabolic substances. The body will always revert back towards its normal metabolic limits once AAS are removed. In this context, some of the gains will not be permanent.

Steroids do permanently alter the physiology of your muscles by adding more cellular nuclei. With higher nuclei content, each muscle cell can manage it's volume more efficiently, which allows more rapid expansion. Even after a long period of complete abstinence from training and AAS, the nuclei remain. This may provide a "muscle memory" effect, allowing you to reach your genetic limit (perhaps a slightly extended limit) faster than if you had never used AAS in the past So in this regard, there are lasting benefits beyond the temporary increase in muscle size itself.

Interesting, so the natural foundation thing is bs\broscience

abijahmaniaco

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Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
« Reply #127 on: November 06, 2011, 05:45:08 AM »


don't let this image intimidate you, thinking you have to be this big before jumping on hormones. his natural/hormonized status in this pic is debatable. i think even gh15 said he is not natural in this pic. no disrespect to namat but i'll admit i don't believe he's natural here.

you have to realize that a lot of bodybuilders feel that credit is being taken away from them if they acknowledge steroid use despite ALL THE HARD WORK they put in (and this is true). so instead they typically downplay the role of hormones in their success. (or completely deny) lol gustavo badell ;D

Borracho

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Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
« Reply #128 on: November 06, 2011, 05:47:29 AM »
ok, you ask so i tell, even though god himself already confirmed this above.

this is from, like most of the things i learned initially, llewellyn.

Are the gains from stroid use temporary?

Yes, and no. Steroids can help you do two basic things with regard to muscle growth. First, they can allow you to more rapidly reach your genetic limits for muscle growth. Provided you continue to train actively, eat properly, and use an effective PCT program, you should be able to maintain at your genetic limit indefinitely. So in this regard, the early gains do not have to be temporary.

Later, steroids can allow you to push well beyond your genetic limits. It is important to emphasize this, as extreme physical development cannot be maintained long-term without the repeat administration of anabolic substances. The body will always revert back towards its normal metabolic limits once AAS are removed. In this context, some of the gains will not be permanent.

Steroids do permanently alter the physiology of your muscles by adding more cellular nuclei. With higher nuclei content, each muscle cell can manage it's volume more efficiently, which allows more rapid expansion. Even after a long period of complete abstinence from training and AAS, the nuclei remain. This may provide a "muscle memory" effect, allowing you to reach your genetic limit (perhaps a slightly extended limit) faster than if you had never used AAS in the past So in this regard, there are lasting benefits beyond the temporary increase in muscle size itself.

Makes sense, but if someone ends up fucking up their endocrine system due to hormone abuse than they'll be worse off in the end.  
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snexer

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Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
« Reply #129 on: November 06, 2011, 07:06:55 AM »
Makes sense, but if someone ends up fucking up their endocrine system due to hormone abuse than they'll be worse off in the end.  
that is why you NEVER go off.

your own testosterone production is an inferior mechanism. so who gives a shit about your natty test when you can have the test levels of a 20 year old when your 75

Borracho

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Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
« Reply #130 on: November 06, 2011, 07:15:08 AM »
that is why you NEVER go off.

your own testosterone production is an inferior mechanism. so who gives a shit about your natty test when you can have the test levels of a 20 year old when your 75

LOL

I doubt a lot of people who are abusers live to be 75. I wouldn't wanna live that long anyway.
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Samourai Pizzacat

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Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
« Reply #131 on: November 06, 2011, 09:47:21 AM »
Why try to run before you can walk?

Train natural for 2-3 years at the minimum. See how your body changes, you might have completely different ideas/ambitions body-wise in a few years. You can look impressive to the general public as natural.

JFree92

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Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
« Reply #132 on: November 06, 2011, 11:06:28 AM »
OK thanks guys. I decided I'm going to try and bulk natty untill October 2012 and then re-evaluate.

Just one more thing, I've seen a few of you guys state that you think I'm pretty lean but I hold a lot of fat on my back, do you think I should cut this off first before I bulk and what bf is this I'm at now?


abijahmaniaco

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Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
« Reply #133 on: November 06, 2011, 12:04:36 PM »
OK thanks guys. I decided I'm going to try and bulk natty untill October 2012 and then re-evaluate.

Just one more thing, I've seen a few of you guys state that you think I'm pretty lean but I hold a lot of fat on my back, do you think I should cut this off first before I bulk and what bf is this I'm at now?



yeah, i can see some fat now in this photo. well, keep in mind the more muscle you have the easier it is to get ripped. so just clean up the diet (cutting out empty calories) and train. if you wanna accelerate the process throw in some cardio optimally at a separate time from your weight training.

gh15

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Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
« Reply #134 on: November 06, 2011, 12:06:37 PM »
Well I can assure you this is my first and only account, and I'm just here for advice and to learn.

whats yoru weight? and height
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Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
« Reply #135 on: November 06, 2011, 12:15:12 PM »
just under 6'4 and I weigh 185lbs. I used to weigh 240 in that pic I posted earlier in the thread.

gh15

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Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
« Reply #136 on: November 06, 2011, 12:17:45 PM »
just under 6'4 and I weigh 185lbs. I used to weigh 240 in that pic I posted earlier in the thread.

you will blow up to 260lb 8-10% on hormones,, one day you will beteh biggest fella in your gymnasium andall around,,not sure competetive,, but from your build...you will blow up crazy one day,,give it some more natural time,, but rememebr what i toldf you when you sit in that gym in 6 years with your weekly coctail waitress ,, remember what good old gh15 told you back in 2011,, you wil blow up big time


gh15 approved
fallen angel

Dr Dutch

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Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
« Reply #137 on: November 06, 2011, 12:18:20 PM »
just under 6'4 and I weigh 185lbs. I used to weigh 240 in that pic I posted earlier in the thread.
you were 240 in tis pic ?  

JFree92

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Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
« Reply #138 on: November 06, 2011, 12:20:02 PM »
lol no sorry meant this pic - http://i39.tinypic.com/9rrhu9.jpg

Swlabr

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Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
« Reply #139 on: November 06, 2011, 12:20:10 PM »
you will blow up to 260lb 8-10% on hormones,, one day you will beteh biggest fella in your gymnasium andall around,,not sure competetive,, but from your build...you will blow up crazy one day,,give it some more natural time,, but rememebr what i toldf you when you sit in that gym in 6 years with your weekly coctail waitress ,, remember what good old gh15 told you back in 2011,, you wil blow up big time


gh15 approved

Can everyone blow up like that, or is this féllá special?

Dr Dutch

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Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
« Reply #140 on: November 06, 2011, 12:21:10 PM »

gh15

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Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
« Reply #141 on: November 06, 2011, 12:22:17 PM »
this fella is special ,, you have here daddy waddy in a way ,, those fellas on hormone blow up to such impressive level ,, not competetive but gymnasium level,, they always have their little coctail waitres ro stripper next to them they change them every few weeks,, but yes this fella status of height and he is umm nto ripped since not much muscle but he is leaner much leaner than average fellas...so height and weight on him right now,, he iwll blow 260 on hormones and good 260

gh15 approved
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JFree92

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Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
« Reply #142 on: November 06, 2011, 12:22:51 PM »
you will blow up to 260lb 8-10% on hormones,, one day you will beteh biggest fella in your gymnasium andall around,,not sure competetive,, but from your build...you will blow up crazy one day,,give it some more natural time,, but rememebr what i toldf you when you sit in that gym in 6 years with your weekly coctail waitress ,, remember what good old gh15 told you back in 2011,, you wil blow up big time


gh15 approved

Thanks, that gives me great motivation. Do you think that training till around the end of 2012 natural is enough time or should I give it longer. I just find it hard to permabulk without worrying about the fat. I feel like I'm sitting at around 13% atm

gh15

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Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
« Reply #143 on: November 06, 2011, 12:24:30 PM »
Thanks, that gives me great motivation. Do you think that training till around the end of 2012 natural is enough time or should I give it longer. I just find it hard to permabulk without worrying about the fat. I feel like I'm sitting at around 13% atm

you shudl pretty easily be 210-220lb naturaly at 12-14% ,,get there first

then on hormones you will really look impressive and fresakish

gh15 approved
fallen angel

Swlabr

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Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
« Reply #144 on: November 06, 2011, 12:25:12 PM »
On an unrelated note:

Are oats gh15 approved? Oats (and rice) are my only sources of carbs.

gh15

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Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
« Reply #145 on: November 06, 2011, 12:25:47 PM »
On an unrelated note:

Are oats gh15 approved? Oats (and rice) are my only sources of carbs.

yes they are,, only write it 400 time in bible

gh15 approved
fallen angel

Swlabr

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Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
« Reply #146 on: November 06, 2011, 12:26:08 PM »
,, lol,,

Dr Dutch

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Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
« Reply #147 on: November 06, 2011, 12:27:10 PM »
you shudl pretty easily be 210-220lb naturaly at 12-14% ,,get there first

then on hormones you will really look impressive and fresakish

gh15 approved
Looks like our little friend got himself a guru........good luck I mean that !    :D :D :D :D :D

JFree92

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Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
« Reply #148 on: November 06, 2011, 12:27:21 PM »
you shudl pretty easily be 210-220lb naturaly at 12-14% ,,get there first

then on hormones you will really look impressive and fresakish

gh15 approved

Ok thanks. I'll try and keep getbig updated, if they want to know that is. Am I right in saying I'm around 12-14 just now?

gh15

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Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
« Reply #149 on: November 06, 2011, 12:30:00 PM »
you are 12% but not much muscle so you cant see it  as well as othr 10-12%,,ned more muscle,, when density come and thicknes come yuo will see it better,, you can easily do it by the wsay ,,easly!

gh15 approved
fallen angel