Dumb Decisions Regarding the American Flag

[Dos Equis]

Like SoulCrusher, you misunderstood my post. It wasn't aimed at you or him, but I guess unless it's spelled out in crayon with large, crudely drawn block caps, you don't get it. Fine:

MY COMMENT WAS REFERRING TO PEOPLE LIKE THE SERVICE MEMBER IN THE ARTICLE WHO CLAIMS, HAVING VOLUNTEERED TO JOIN THE ARMED FORCES, A PATRIOTISM SO UNBRIDLED AND EXTREME AND A PROFOUND SENSE OF MORALITY SO STRONG THAT SHE CANNOT STAND FOR THE INJUSTICE AND THE DESECRATION OF THE FLAG THAT THAT THE REST OF US ALLOW, AS AN EXCUSE TO NOT DISPLAY THE PROPER RESPECT TO THAT FLAG.

You mean you failed to properly communicate your point and resorted to a defensive, lengthy all caps font, when a few words would suffice?  How out of the ordinary.  lol

[avxo]

You mean you failed to properly communicate your point and resorted to a defensive, lengthy all caps font, when a few words would suffice?  How out of the ordinary.  lol

Your inability to understand fairly simple English isn't my failure.

[Dos Equis]

Your inability to understand fairly simple English isn't my failure.

It's more likely that things get lost in translation on a message board and given that two people didn't catch your irony, your delivery sucked. 

Humility.  A great attribute.  Try it.

[avxo]

It's more likely that things get lost in translation on a message board and given that two people didn't catch your irony, your delivery sucked. 

Humility.  A great attribute.  Try it.

So, two people on an Internet forum fail to comprehend my writing and the conclusion is that my delivery is the problem?

Isn't it more likely that you have the reading comprehension of a fourth grader that rides the short bus?

[Dos Equis]

So, two people on an Internet forum fail to comprehend my writing and the conclusion is that my delivery is the problem?

Isn't it more likely that you have the reading comprehension of a fourth grader that rides the short bus?

So you compound your failure to communicate and lack of humility with an unoriginal juvenile insult?  You are on roll. 

And I'll have you know I read on at least an eighth grade level, so get your facts straight.   

[avxo]

So you compound your failure to communicate and lack of humility with an unoriginal juvenile insult?  You are on roll.

You haven't established that the failure to communicate was mine.

And I'll have you know I read on at least an eighth grade level, so get your facts straight.   

I stand corrected!

[Dos Equis]

You haven't established that the failure to communicate was mine.


I stand corrected!

That's where that whole humility thing comes into play.  If you take an objective look at your comment there is clearly more than one interpretation. 

[avxo]

That's where that whole humility thing comes into play.  If you take an objective look at your comment there is clearly more than one interpretation. 

Humility? My friend, I'm a getbigger. My humility is as atrophied as my biceps are hypertrophied.

[Dos Equis]

Humility? My friend, I'm a getbigger. My humility is as atrophied as my biceps are hypertrophied.

Touché.   

[Dos Equis]

Since when does the flag represent something ominous and frightening?

ACLU: School's salute to cops sends "ominous, frightening message"
By  Todd Starnes 
Published October 24, 2016
FoxNews.com


Fourth of July
(AP)

A patriotic, pre-game celebration honoring law enforcement and first responders at a high school football game has drawn the ire of the New Jersey chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union.

New Jersey’s Middletown High School South saluted more than 100 police officers and military personnel on Oct. 21.

The celebration culminated with teenaged football players and police officers unfurling a massive American flag before singing the national anthem.

“A star-spangled celebration,” is how the Asbury Park Press described the festivities.

But the ACLU of New Jersey exploded with fury -- accusing organizers of sending an “ominous, frightening message.”

In a letter to school leaders, the ACLU-NJ and the local chapter of the NAACP said the school was using the salute to “intimidate and ostracize people who express their views about systemic racism and social justice.”

The controversy stems in part from some comments Middletown Police Deputy Chief Stephen Dollinger made to the Asbury Park Press.

He reportedly told the newspaper that the salute was prompted by the behavior of San Francisco 49ers quarterback Colin Kaepernick.

“It’s okay to stand up for social justice, inequality and reform,” he told the newspaper in advance of the football game. “It’s another thing to not stand up for the national anthem.”

Dollinger later said his remarks had been “twisted” and the event had nothing to do with the disgraced NFL quarterback or Black Lives Matter.

“I said we respect the rights of everybody to stand up for social justice and equality and reform, but we also respect our country and want to celebrate the first responders, the national anthem,” he told the newspaper.

Regardless, the idea of honoring those who protect and serve rankled the ACLU and their minions.

“The criticism the deputy police chief expressed for people who decline to stand for the national anthem in protest serves to erect walls between police and the communities they serve,” said ACLU-NJ policy counsel Dianna Houenou.

“The people police are sworn to protect and serve should not have to fear that the value officers assign to them is determined by the beliefs they hold,” she added.

Ms. Houenou fails to understand that police officers will come to the aid of any citizen – even those who spit on the badge and those who despise the flag.

Jasmine Crenshaw, another ACLU lackey, raged over the deputy chief’s behavior.

“The statements made by the deputy police chief and the event’s ostentatious show of power send an ominous, frightening message: that, as an official stance, law enforcement will not tolerate expressions acknowledging our nation’s history of unequal treatment and systematic oppression,” Crenshaw said.

“The magnitude of this event chills the belief that police should be held accountable when they abuse their power or discriminate against people of color, and pressures student athletes to act as props of the police,” she added.

Well, I want to salute the deputy police chief. He should be commended, not condemned for honoring first responders and our veterans.

I’ve grown extremely tired of these anti-American agitators who have hijacked our sporting events and turned them into platforms to spew their hatred for the red, white and blue.

It’s a football game, folks – not a Million Man March.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2016/10/24/aclu-schools-salute-to-cops-sends-ominous-frightening-message.html

[Soul Crusher]

Kaepernick Wears Black Panther Shirt After Blowout Loss
ScreenshotScreenshot
BY: AARON BANDLER OCTOBER 24, 2016
7847125
25 Comments
10910
Following his team's 34-17 loss to the Tampa Bay Buccaneers on Sunday, San Francisco 49ers quarterback Colin Kaepernick added another layer to his anti-police, anti-America protest movement by wearing a Black Panther Party T-shirt to his post-game press conference.

The quarterback, who has managed to keep himself in the headlines by kneeling during the National Anthem, emerged from the locker room for his post-game presser adorned in Black Panther garb:

Video: Respect for Kaepernick stance - Manning

 
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#49ers Colin Kaepernick wore a Black Panther Party T-shirt postgame (a gift from his girlfriend according to @ElliottAlmond)
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Kaepernick's girlfriend is Nessa Diab, a radio and television personality, and she has reportedly been the reason for Kaepernick's recent foray into social activism, as Diab promotes Black Lives Matter propaganda and decries supposed "Islamophobia" that occurs in society.

The struggling quarterback has also posted a statement on Instagram exclaiming "History!" in celebration of the Black Panther Party.

In actuality, Kaepernick is paying lip service to an organization with a violent history. One of the Black Panther leaders, Eldrige Cleaver, admitted as such in a 1986 interview, but also said that he'd finally accepted that cops are "necessary" (via Conservative Review):

REASON: Did the Panthers try to provoke violence? Was that part of the strategy?

CLEAVER: Sure it was part of the strategy. It was using the theories of revolutionary violence. A lot of people don't like to give us credit, but in America you had some of the best-educated revolutionaries in the world — even better-educated than some successful revolutionaries in other countries. We studied the experiences of these other countries and we knew the theories of guerrilla warfare and Marxism and Leninism and people's war, and we definitely were not sitting back waiting for the authorities to attack us. We used to lie about it, because the information was a weapon also. We would go out and ambush cops, but if we got caught we would blame it on them and claim innocence. I did that personally in the case I was involved in.

REASON: The Bobby Hutton case?

CLEAVER: Yes. We went after the cops that night, but when we got caught we said they came after us. We always did that. When you talk about the legacy of the '60s, that's one legacy. That's what I try to address, because it helped to distort the image of the police, but I've come to the point where I realize that our police department is necessary.


Cleaver once served time in prison for rape before he joined the Black Panther Party.

The co-founder of the Black Panther Party, Huey Newton, had killed two people before he ultimately died at the hands of a drug dealer in 1989.

Sen. Ted Cruz (R-TX) recently called out Kaepernick as a "knuckle-headed" and a "rich spoiled athlete" who should "give all his money to take care of fallen officers." The general public seems to agree, as the National Football League's ratings have plummeted this year.

Kaepernick has started two games for the 49ers this season, and the results have been abysmal: 29 for 63 completions with a 66.2 quarterback rating.

(h/t: Weasel Zippers)

[Dos Equis]

Hampshire College Decides to Stop Flying the American Flag in Order to Focus on a Post-Trump America
BY ANTONIA OKAFOR


You know what they say…

If at first you can't burn the American flag, try try again…

SPONSORED VIDEO: ‘DEEPLY OFFENDED’ STUDENTS

Or just take it down altogether.

The powers that be at Hampshire College in Amherst, Massachusetts, decided that the only way that they were ever going to keep students from lowering and burning the American flag on school property was if they just stopped flying one in the first place.

It reminds me of when my mother would just sell the house each time I decided not to clean my room in protest of the argument that my room was: “just going to get dirty again.”

Oh wait…

Campus Reform reports that Hampshire College began flying flags at half-staff as a sign of mourning of the Trump Election Day win a couple of weeks ago. The night before Veterans Day, students lowered and burned the flag.

Unfortunately, this practice has been common since Election Day. Students all over the U.S. have been burning flags in protest of Donald Trump’s win and his impending presidency.


The President of Hampshire College, Jonathan Lash decided that after commemorating Veterans Day, the school would no longer fly the American flag. In fact, they would no longer fly any flag at all. They would instead focus on the inevitable-the rise of racism, misogyny, and Islamophobia due to Trump’s win.

In an email sent out to the school last Friday, Lash states:

“…has been especially painful to our Hampshire colleagues who are veterans or families of veterans,” adding that he hopes that dispensing with the flag will “enable us to instead focus our efforts on addressing racist, misogynistic, Islamophobic, anti-immigrant, anti-Semitic, and anti-LGBTQ rhetoric and behaviors.”

He continues:

“I ask our campus to join me in a commitment to living up to the ideals of our mission: to insist on diversity, inclusion, and equity from our leaders and in our communities; to constructively resist those who are opposing these values; and to actively and passionately work toward justice and positive change at Hampshire and in the world.”

Daniel Vogel, a student from Hampshire College and guest on Tucker Carlson's show on Fox News last night, had this to say about his support of the American flag being taken down indefinitely.

In a letter to the “Amherst Bulletin,” the student wrote:

“Think about the groups who use the flag. From police officers to the U.S Army, these are the forces on the ground that make oppression happen.”

Odd. The “groups who use the flag” have never been reserved for police officers or the U.S. Army. The American flag is for all Americans. And, more importantly, it is a symbol of freedom, not oppression for all people in the world.

http://ijr.com/2016/11/741374-hampshire-college-decides-to-stop-flying-the-american-flag-in-order-to-focus-on-a-post-trump-america/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=partners&utm_campaign=bencarson&utm_term=prm6

[avxo]

Burning a flag you own is a-ok in my book. Burning the College's flag... well, that's destorying someone else's property. Also, if the reporting here is accurate, then the choice of lowering the flag in response to the election is, at best, dumb and misguided.

But is the reporting accurate?  I've never heard of the "Independent Journal Review" or "Antonia Okafor", but the language in the article seems a bit too tilted towards fanning the flames. Let's see if we can find some other sources. How about CNN? According to an article, the College said that the flag was lowered by students after the election as a symbolic action and was burned a day later (the burning being under investigation) and the College will no longer fly the flag. Here's spokesman John Courtmanche:

"Our goal is to give voice to the range of viewpoints on campus across cultures, and hopefully find common ground," Courtmanche said in a statement. "We've heard from members of our community that, for them and for many in our country, the flag is a powerful symbol of fear they've felt all their lives because they grew up as people of color, never feeling safe. For others, it's a symbol of their highest aspirations for the country."

Holy fuck... really? You give voice to a range of viewpoints by not flying the Nation's flag because "people of color" see it as a symbol of fear? This is fucking crazy. I am at a loss for words.

Ultimately, the flag is just strips of cloth, sewn together - no real meaning, except perhaps as an homage to the original 13 colonies and the existing 50 States. What truly gives the flag meaning is what it stands for: the values that we cherish and hold dear. Take those away and the flag is reduced to a multicolored rag.

You want to give voice to a range of student viewpoints? That's great. College is all about being exposed to different things and ideas and learning. Freedom of speech is a important right, and one of the most important - if not the most important right - and we cherish it, and rightly so. If your goal is to give voice to a range of viewpoints, then when someone stands up to speak, LET THEM SPEAK!

People want to talk about how the flag is the awesomest? Let them speak!
People want to talk about how the flag represents an Imperialist nation, hell-bent on conquering the world with jeans and rock-n-roll? Let them speak!
People want to talk about how the flag is a symbol of whitey keeping the black man down? Let them speak!
People want to talk about how the flag shouldn't be printed on underwear? Let them speak!
People want to talk about how the flag should be replaced with a goatse picture? Let them speak!

You should relish the opportunity to be exposed to ideas you don't agree with or feel are contemptible. If you aren't, you aren't really learning about the world.

[Dos Equis]

Burning a flag you own is a-ok in my book. Burning the College's flag... well, that's destorying someone else's property. Also, if the reporting here is accurate, then the choice of lowering the flag in response to the election is, at best, dumb and misguided.

But is the reporting accurate?  I've never heard of the "Independent Journal Review" or "Antonia Okafor", but the language in the article seems a bit too tilted towards fanning the flames. Let's see if we can find some other sources. How about CNN? According to an article, the College said that the flag was lowered by students after the election as a symbolic action and was burned a day later (the burning being under investigation) and the College will no longer fly the flag. Here's spokesman John Courtmanche:

Holy fuck... really? You give voice to a range of viewpoints by not flying the Nation's flag because "people of color" see it as a symbol of fear? This is fucking crazy. I am at a loss for words.

Ultimately, the flag is just strips of cloth, sewn together - no real meaning, except perhaps as an homage to the original 13 colonies and the existing 50 States. What truly gives the flag meaning is what it stands for: the values that we cherish and hold dear. Take those away and the flag is reduced to a multicolored rag.

You want to give voice to a range of student viewpoints? That's great. College is all about being exposed to different things and ideas and learning. Freedom of speech is a important right, and one of the most important - if not the most important right - and we cherish it, and rightly so. If your goal is to give voice to a range of viewpoints, then when someone stands up to speak, LET THEM SPEAK!

People want to talk about how the flag is the awesomest? Let them speak!
People want to talk about how the flag represents an Imperialist nation, hell-bent on conquering the world with jeans and rock-n-roll? Let them speak!
People want to talk about how the flag is a symbol of whitey keeping the black man down? Let them speak!
People want to talk about how the flag shouldn't be printed on underwear? Let them speak!
People want to talk about how the flag should be replaced with a goatse picture? Let them speak!

You should relish the opportunity to be exposed to ideas you don't agree with or feel are contemptible. If you aren't, you aren't really learning about the world.

It's an accurate story (see below).  I agree for the most.  The First Amendment was designed to protect unpopular speech and expression.

That said, I don't have a problem excoriating people who do things like burn the flag, etc.  That's part of free expression too. 

Veterans protest at Massachusetts college that removed US flags
Published November 28, 2016 
FoxNews.com

Around 1,000 veterans gathered at a western Massachusetts college Sunday to protest the school’s decision to stop flying all flags, including U.S. flags, after students allegedly burned a flag in protest of Donald Trump’s election victory.

Hampshire College in Amherst outraged many with its decision to remove all flags from campus. Protesters expressed their displeasure and hoped to reach out to students during their demonstration.

“They took down my flag, they have a right to that, I’m here to defend their right to do that but I want them to understand how bad that hurts me,” veteran Jerry Maguire told WWLP-TV.

The station reported that hundreds all over the New England region joined the protest, including Springfield Mayor Domenic Sarno. He stood with the veterans as well.

“For the students here and the president and board of trustees have risen from what the veterans sacrificed, this flag and not to fly the flag on this campus if you were in some other countries around the world it would be handled very, very differently,” Sarno said.


Other veterans and demonstrators were heard chanting “U.S.A.,” according to Fox 25 Boston.

The WWLP-TV reported that the protest was largely peaceful, aside from one isolated incident.

Hampshire College President Jonathan Lash didn’t attend the event, according to WWLP-TV.

The station reported last week that debates over flag flying have occurred on campus before. For more than a decade flying commemorative 9/11 flags have been a hot-button issue until the school board voted to fly those flags annually.

Lash said the Amherst campus will talk with students and staff about properly utilizing flags in the future.

The Associated Press contributed to this report.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/11/28/veterans-protest-at-massachusetts-college-that-removed-us-flags.html

[Coach is Back!]

Not sure what I think about this.

Federal Judge Okays Flag Desecration
Mar 23, 2012
By Todd Starnes

A federal judge has declared Missouri’s flag desecration law is unconstitutional and cannot be enforced.

U.S. District Judge Carol E. Jackson issued a permanent injunction in the case of Frank Snider, who was arrested in 2009 for cutting up an American flag and throwing it into the street.

“The sense of patriotism that runs through Missouri is strong,” Attorney General Chris Koster told Fox News in a written statement. “Although we understood that defending the statute was an uphill battle, most Missourians have a strong reaction against flag desecration.  Our defense of the statute was our attempt to give voice to that patriotic sentiment.”

The Attorney General’s office told Fox News they are still reviewing the judge’s ruling and haven’t made any decisions on next steps. Missouri is among at least 20 states with laws banning flag desecration.
Missouri’s flag desecration law states: “Any person who purposefully and publicly mutilates, defaces, defiles, tramples upon or otherwise desecrates the national flag of the United States or the state flag of the state of Missouri is guilty of the crime of flag desecration.”

The law considered flag desecration a misdemeanor penalty.

However, the judge ruled that the entire statute was invalid because it prohibits a substantial amount of protected speech.

The American Civil Liberties Union hailed the judge’s ruling, calling it “satisfying” but “not surprising.”

“It’s a long delayed victory in Missouri,” said ACLU attorney Tony Rothert in an interview with the Associated Press. “The Supreme Court has been pretty clear that these statues are unconstitutional.”

The Missouri chapter of the American Legion denounced the ruling and said it was a sad day for the state.

“Anger,” is how Kenneth Goth, the American Legion Dept. Commander described his reaction to Fox News. “There’s a lot of people who fight for our country and that flag. You never see a veteran do that because they know what the honor is.”

Goth said he is passionate about the American flag. To him, the flag “means my country.” He said people who desecrate the American flag do so to “show their stupidity.”

“People can take their freedom of speech a little too far and doing that to the American flag does,” he said.

http://radio.foxnews.com/toddstarnes/top-stories/federal-judge-okays-flag-desecration.html

With Trump saying people should be put in jail for burning the flag, it will be just a matter of time before this is turned over. Marxist's should be pooping their pants about now.

[avxo]

With Trump saying people should be put in jail for burning the flag, it will be just a matter of time before this is turned over. Marxist's should be pooping their pants about now.

Boy, jails will be full of people from the military and the VFW. They routinely dispose of worn flags in accordance with the 4 U.S.C. § 8. It requires, you guessed it, burning.

[Skeletor]

Hillary Clinton was a co-sponsor for the Flag Protection Act of 2005. What would she do today?

https://www.congress.gov/bill/109th-congress/senate-bill/1911/text

https://www.congress.gov/bill/109th-congress/senate-bill/1911/cosponsors

[Soul Crusher]

Hillary Clinton was a co-sponsor for the Flag Protection Act of 2005. What would she do today?

https://www.congress.gov/bill/109th-congress/senate-bill/1911/text

https://www.congress.gov/bill/109th-congress/senate-bill/1911/cosponsors

He is trolling her and liberals melting Dow. 

[avxo]

He is trolling her and liberals melting Dow. 

That's actually an interesting suggestion. It could be that Trump is playing the media and reinforcing the narrative of skewed media coverage:

He meets with Petraeus (who was tried and convicted leaked classified information to his mistress) and the media goes nuts, reporting how his parole office will be allowed to search his office. Hillary leaked classified information and the media's response? Crickets.

He talks about how burning the flag shouldn't be allowed and offenders ought to be punished. The media is up in arms, bulwarks against any encroachment of the First Amendment. Hillary introduced a bill to that effect in the past and the media's response? Crickets.

[Dos Equis]

Blue Lives Matter flag deemed 'racist,' ordered to come down
By Fox 13  
Published March 24, 2017


A Florida woman is being told to take down her Blue Lives Matter flag that's been flying for several years now by her homeowners association.

Jeff Gaddie told Action News Jacksonville that his daughter in St. Johns County has been flying the flag to honor him and many other family members who are law enforcement.

"She called to ask why," Gaddie said. "They told her they had received a complaint that it was considered racist, offensive and anti-Black Lives Matter,” he said.

The association asked the woman, who did not want to be identified for fear of backlash, to submit a request for permission to fly the flag, which has since been denied.

Action News Jacksonville reached out to the First Coast Association Management, which said only American and military-themed flags are allowed to fly in the neighborhood, even though there are other types of flags flying.

Gaddie says the flag is only a show of support and the family is planning to appeal the decision at the next homeowner's association meeting.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/03/24/blue-lives-matter-flag-deemed-racist-ordered-to-come-down.html

[Straw Man]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

WTF Bum - this has nothing to do with the US Flag and I'm sure you know that HOA's have all kind of rules about what you can and can't do

Here's a little trip down memory lane from ~ the late 1980's

[Skeletor]

Blue Lives Matter flag deemed 'racist,' ordered to come down
By Fox 13  
Published March 24, 2017


A Florida woman is being told to take down her Blue Lives Matter flag that's been flying for several years now by her homeowners association.

Jeff Gaddie told Action News Jacksonville that his daughter in St. Johns County has been flying the flag to honor him and many other family members who are law enforcement.

"She called to ask why," Gaddie said. "They told her they had received a complaint that it was considered racist, offensive and anti-Black Lives Matter,” he said.

The association asked the woman, who did not want to be identified for fear of backlash, to submit a request for permission to fly the flag, which has since been denied.

Action News Jacksonville reached out to the First Coast Association Management, which said only American and military-themed flags are allowed to fly in the neighborhood, even though there are other types of flags flying.

Gaddie says the flag is only a show of support and the family is planning to appeal the decision at the next homeowner's association meeting.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/03/24/blue-lives-matter-flag-deemed-racist-ordered-to-come-down.html

I don't think the 'blue lies matter" flag is racist but it is not the US Flag, it is an abomination. Also what "other types of flags" are flying there?

[Dos Equis]

I don't think the 'blue lies matter" flag is racist but it is not the US Flag, it is an abomination. Also what "other types of flags" are flying there?

I wouldn't alter the flag like that, but it is pretty dumb to be crying about this.  People prove time and again that they don't know how to pick their battles. 

[Skeletor]

I wouldn't alter the flag like that, but it is pretty dumb to be crying about this.  People prove time and again that they don't know how to pick their battles. 

The "racist" angle is stupid imho (and the "anti-Black Lives Matter" angle more so) but the article mentioned that the association allows for US and military themed flags "even though there are other types of flags flying". What flags are these? Do they allow some flags (aside from US and military) but not others and selectively enforce their rules?

[Dos Equis]

The "racist" angle is stupid imho (and the "anti-Black Lives Matter" angle more so) but the article mentioned that the association allows for US and military themed flags "even though there are other types of flags flying". What flags are these? Do they allow some flags (aside from US and military) but not others and selectively enforce their rules?

Does sound like selective enforcement to appease some snowflake who needs a safe space.  We are raising a generation of sissies.