Author Topic: Should Kagan or Thomas recuse themselves from Obamacare case?  (Read 1671 times)

Fury

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Should Kagan or Thomas recuse themselves from Obamacare case?
« on: November 15, 2011, 04:16:49 PM »
Elena Kagan served as Solicitor General while Obamacare was being crafted, even having sat in on meetings discussing it. She has previously said that she would recuse herself from any case that she offered counsel on.

Thomas’s wife worked for a conservative think tank that opposes Obamacare. Clarence Thomas himself has no involvement with the Heritage Foundation. Apparently leftists think men are just extensions of their wives and CT’s wife is the only person in the country who either agrees or disagrees with Obamacare. Should he really be responsible for his wife living her life?

Should Kagan/Thomas/both recuse? I personally believe that Kagan should be recusing herself but that would take some modicum of integrity. Actually being part of the process and having a family member who is against it are two entirely different things.

Skip8282

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Re: Should Kagan or Thomas recuse themselves from Obamacare case?
« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2011, 04:30:28 PM »
I think it would be nice if they both just took the high road and stepped back.  But, I'm not counting on it.

Fury

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Re: Should Kagan or Thomas recuse themselves from Obamacare case?
« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2011, 05:00:35 PM »
I think it would be nice if they both just took the high road and stepped back.  But, I'm not counting on it.

I don't see why Thomas should. His wife is active against it but there's nothing to indicate that she drives his opinion. And given that the guy is probably the biggest Constitutionalist on the court, I definitely don't see her having an impact. He's ruled against the scope of the Commerce Clause before so it's only expected that he will here.

Kagan, on the other hand, sat in on meetings when Obamacare was being crafted.

Dos Equis

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Re: Should Kagan or Thomas recuse themselves from Obamacare case?
« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2011, 05:07:14 PM »
I don't see why Thomas should. His wife is active against it but there's nothing to indicate that she drives his opinion. And given that the guy is probably the biggest Constitutionalist on the court, I definitely don't see her having an impact. He's ruled against the scope of the Commerce Clause before so it's only expected that he will here.

Kagan, on the other hand, sat in on meetings when Obamacare was being crafted.

Agree.  Kagan:  yes.  Thomas:  no.

Straw Man

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Re: Should Kagan or Thomas recuse themselves from Obamacare case?
« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2011, 05:08:14 PM »
both or neither would be fine with me but I think both should

Soul Crusher

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Re: Should Kagan or Thomas recuse themselves from Obamacare case?
« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2011, 05:28:20 PM »
All comes down to kennedy. 

Skip8282

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Re: Should Kagan or Thomas recuse themselves from Obamacare case?
« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2011, 07:05:01 PM »
I don't see why Thomas should. His wife is active against it but there's nothing to indicate that she drives his opinion. And given that the guy is probably the biggest Constitutionalist on the court, I definitely don't see her having an impact. He's ruled against the scope of the Commerce Clause before so it's only expected that he will here.

Kagan, on the other hand, sat in on meetings when Obamacare was being crafted.



Agreed, no direct link.  I think indirect gives rise to some objection.  If they both go - no issues from either side (well, you know what I mean).


They've allotted 2 hours alone, just for debate on the individual mandate, the rest will be upheld (IMO).

Soul Crusher

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Re: Should Kagan or Thomas recuse themselves from Obamacare case?
« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2011, 07:05:53 PM »
CNN POLL: Whites give president thumbs DOWN 61%-36%; Non-White thumbs UP 67%-32%...
http://www.drudgereport.com/ ^
Posted on November 15, 2011 9:03:09 PM EST by macquire

Surrrrprise surrrprise surrrprise (anyone old enough to remember Gomer Pyle here?)

Exactly as has been pointed out to pollsters for almost 3 years now: IF minorities were holding Obama accountable and NOT voting skin color, Obama would be at a 35% approval instead of hovering around 40 to 42%.

Soul Crusher

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Re: Should Kagan or Thomas recuse themselves from Obamacare case?
« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2011, 07:25:38 PM »
Kagan, Thomas Pressured to Recuse Themselves from Health Care Case
Christian Post ^ | 11/15/2011 | Amanda Winkler
Posted on November 15, 2011 4:41:01 PM EST by SeekAndFind

Only one day after the high court decided to hear the case, there is political pressure from both sides of the aisle calling for both Justice Elena Kagan and Clarence Thomas to recuse themselves from a Supreme Court decision on the Obama administration’s health reform law.

Conservatives are calling for Kagan, a more liberal voter, to recuse herself because of her work as a solicitor general in the Obama administration in which she had to push in favor of the healthcare reform. Among those calling for her to recuse herself is Utah Sen. Orrin Hatch (R), a longtime staple of the Senate Judiciary Committee. Hatch told The Hill that “it would be most appropriate for Kagan to decline participation in cases on healthcare reform,” because of her role as solicitor general.

Right-leaning groups such as the Media Research Center and Judicial Watch pushed the Department of Justice (DOJ) to release an email exchange between Kagan and Supreme Court litigator Professor Laurence Tribe who was then serving in the DOJ.

Among other emails that express Kagan’s excitement about passing healthcare is this one:

“I hear they have the votes, Larry!! Simply amazing,” Kagan said to Tribe in one of the emails.

Conservative groups are using this as fuel to call for her recusal.

According to article 28 of the US Constitution 455, a Supreme Court justice must recuse from “any proceeding in which his impartiality might reasonably be questioned.” The law also says a justice must recuse anytime he or she has “expressed an opinion concerning the merits of the particular case in controversy” while he or she has “served in governmental employment.”

During her confirmation hearings, Kagan said she would recuse herself “from any case in which [she has] been counsel of record” or where she has “played any kind of substantial role in the process.” In her hearings she testified that she had not had any discussions “where any substantive discussion of the litigation occurred.”

Russell Wheeler, visiting fellow at the Brookings Institute, told The Christian Post that he didn’t see any substantial evidence against Kagan saying that she should step down.

“If she really thought her impartiality was compromised, she would step down. No justice wants to say that he or she didn’t have prior contact with the case only to be proven wrong in the near future. No Justice is going to try and pull a fast one, especially in today’s high tech society where the truth will eventually be found out.”

But it’s not just Republicans who are on the attack. Liberal groups are targeting Thomas, a more conservative voter, because of his wife’s work with the Tea Party groups in opposition of healthcare. The liberal magazine titled Mother Jones reported earlier that his wife, Ginni Thomas, has received $150,000 for her work at the conservative organization Liberty Central. According to USA Today, more than 70 democrats wrote Thomas this year urging him to recuse himself saying “the line between your impartiality and you and your wife's financial stake in the overturn of health care reform is blurred."

"Your spouse is advertising herself as a lobbyist who has "experience and connections" and appeals to clients who want a particular decision -- they want to overturn health care reform."

However, neither Justice is likely to step down, pundits say.

“This is all political maneuvering,” Wheeler continued.

“What we see in these calls from both Republicans and Democrats is less concern about judicial impartiality and more interest in politics.” Wheeler explained that if either party could chase one of the Justices off the case, then that might tilt the odds in their favor.

However, even if the Justices aren’t taken off the case that could give the losing side ammunition to undermine and weaken the legitimacy of the decision by claiming the vote was tainted.

In any other court, if a justice recuses him or herself, then another judge will simply take his or her place. However, that is not the case with the Supreme Court. If the court has one less member and the vote comes to a standstill at 4-4, then the decision of the lower court will stand.

TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events; Click to Add Topic
KEYWORDS: kagan; kagantoad; obamacare; recuse; thomas; Click to Add Keyword
 
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Fury

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Re: Should Kagan or Thomas recuse themselves from Obamacare case?
« Reply #9 on: November 15, 2011, 07:29:49 PM »
Elena Kagan Must Be Recused In ObamaCare Case

Supreme Court: Should a justice who participated in ObamaCare's creation recuse herself from the court's review of that law? Of course. But then a nominee who lies in confirmation hearings shouldn't be on the court anyway.

If Justice Elena Kagan were a person of character, she would sit out the Supreme Court's hearing of the challenge to the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act.

But during her confirmation hearings in June of last year, she indicated she would not. And since this Monday, when the court announced it would take the case, she has done nothing to suggest she will recuse herself after all. Nor has the court made any statement about her recusal, a convention it usually follows when a justice takes himself or herself off a case.

Here are the facts on Kagan: She was the administration's solicitor general when ObamaCare became law last year. She has acknowledged that she was at a meeting in which state litigation against ObamaCare was discussed, though she said she was not involved in any legal responses concerning the states' litigation.

We also know that Kagan enthusiastically supported ObamaCare. This is made clear in emails released last week by the Justice Department.

"I hear they have the votes, Larry!! Simply amazing," Kagan wrote on the day ObamaCare passed the House in an email to Laurence Tribe, the Harvard law professor who was working at that time in the Obama Justice Department.

On the same day that note was sent, an associate attorney general emailed Justice Department lawyers to organize a health care litigation meeting. A Kagan deputy later emailed her suggesting that she attend.

While nothing in the chain of emails indicates Kagan was at the meeting, neither is there any evidence that she said she was not going to attend.

Nearly lost in this is the possibility that Kagan lied during her confirmation. She told the Senate Judiciary Committee that she had not been asked about the legal issues of ObamaCare nor had she offered any views on them. The emails, however, seem to tell a different story. Two exclamation points plainly show that in her legal opinion, ObamaCare was constitutional.

A Kagan recusal would not secure a finding against ObamaCare. Even if she were recused, it's plausible the case could end in a 4-4 vote, which isn't enough to overturn it. But her recusal would be necessary if Justice Clarence Thomas were to recuse himself. If he's out and she's not, ObamaCare is upheld at 4-4 if not 5-3.

The case against Thomas, however, is weak. He didn't work for a White House that pressed for the law. Nor is there a record of his disclosing an opinion on it. His only link is his wife, who's been involved with groups opposed to ObamaCare.

Thomas should stay. There's no conflict of interest. Kagan, though, has to recuse herself if for no other reason than to protect the integrity of the court.

http://news.investors.com/Article/591798/201111151910/Justice-Kagan-Recuse-Thyself.htm

Soul Crusher

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Re: Should Kagan or Thomas recuse themselves from Obamacare case?
« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2011, 07:42:08 PM »
She will never recuse herself.  Sadly , this all coes down to Kennedy. 

Fury

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Re: Should Kagan or Thomas recuse themselves from Obamacare case?
« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2011, 07:49:44 PM »
She will never recuse herself.  Sadly , this all coes down to Kennedy. 

First stop: health insurance. Next stop is making every American buy a GM car.  ::)

Soul Crusher

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Re: Should Kagan or Thomas recuse themselves from Obamacare case?
« Reply #12 on: November 15, 2011, 07:52:07 PM »
First stop: health insurance. Next stop is making every American buy a GM car.  ::)

It really is that simple.   I was against obamacare from day one.  that being said, wo a low cost option available to everyone, how can youossibly mandate everyone buy insurance wo cost control?   

it's totally insane! 

Skip8282

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Re: Should Kagan or Thomas recuse themselves from Obamacare case?
« Reply #13 on: November 16, 2011, 03:33:53 PM »
First stop: health insurance. Next stop is making every American buy a GM car.  ::)



Shit, this Obama we're talking about.  Everybody will have to purchase one of his books.   ;D

Freeborn126

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Re: Should Kagan or Thomas recuse themselves from Obamacare case?
« Reply #14 on: November 17, 2011, 02:23:04 PM »
Kagan obviously recused herself from being a woman a long time ago, why not recuse herself from this case as well? 

How did this troll get appointed to the highest court in this nation?  What has she ever done worthwhile to make her qualified to be a judge?
Live free or die

Soul Crusher

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Re: Should Kagan or Thomas recuse themselves from Obamacare case?
« Reply #15 on: November 17, 2011, 02:23:57 PM »
Kagan obviously recused herself from being a woman a long time ago, why not recuse herself from this case as well? 

How did this troll get appointed to the highest court in this nation?  What has she ever done worthwhile to make her qualified to be a judge?

She is a far left gay hag who looks like the grim reaper.  She meets all the quals for obama 

Fury

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Re: Should Kagan or Thomas recuse themselves from Obamacare case?
« Reply #16 on: November 17, 2011, 05:06:17 PM »


Shit, this Obama we're talking about.  Everybody will have to purchase one of his books.   ;D

The State Department bought $100,000 worth of his last biography to put in all of our embassies. Their excuse was that it painted a good picture of Downgrade's foreign policy.  ::)

Skip8282

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Re: Should Kagan or Thomas recuse themselves from Obamacare case?
« Reply #17 on: November 17, 2011, 05:28:35 PM »
The State Department bought $100,000 worth of his last biography to put in all of our embassies. They're excuse was that it painted a good picture of Downgrade's foreign policy.  ::)



Didn't know about that...fucking insane.  Another sole source contract to the publisher I'd reckon.  But those are only bad if it's Haliburton.

Fury

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Re: Should Kagan or Thomas recuse themselves from Obamacare case?
« Reply #18 on: November 17, 2011, 05:31:03 PM »


Didn't know about that...fucking insane.  Another sole source contract to the publisher I'd reckon.  But those are only bad if it's Haliburton.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/oct/25/state-department-buys-70000-worth-obama-memoir/?page=all

Was actually $70,000, not $100k.

Skip8282

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Re: Should Kagan or Thomas recuse themselves from Obamacare case?
« Reply #19 on: November 17, 2011, 05:39:19 PM »
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/oct/25/state-department-buys-70000-worth-obama-memoir/?page=all

Was actually $70,000, not $100k.



lol, they sure tried to paint that in a friendly light for Obama.  Complete waste and the fact that it was not done with other presidential books pretty much sums it up.

Soul Crusher

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Re: Should Kagan or Thomas recuse themselves from Obamacare case?
« Reply #20 on: November 19, 2011, 04:17:53 AM »
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85 Call for Kagan Recusal on Obamacare
Townhall.com ^ | November 19, 2011 | Bob Beauprez
Posted on November 19, 2011 7:20:53 AM EST by Kaslin

The call for Congress to hold hearings on the need for Justice Elena Kagan to recuse herself from the ObamaCare case now on the docket of the Supreme Court has exploded.  The number of organizations signing on to a letter to House Judiciary Chairman Lamar Smith has more than tripled in just 48 hours since our original blog post calling for her to stand aside.  Following is a link to the final draft of the letter signed by the leaders of 85 citizens organizations and related other articles and documents.

Leader's to House Judiciary Chairman Lamar Smith

Judicial Action Group's

Judicial Crisis Network brief: Elena Kagan, The Justice Who Knew Too Much

Judicial Watch November 10, 2011 background article

Leaders of two dozen citizen organizations are urging the House Judiciary Committee to hold hearings on the need for Elena Kagan to recuse herself from the ObamaCare case now scheduled to be heard by the Supreme Court.  In a letter to Judiciary Chairman  Lamar Smith (), and copied to House Republican Leadership, the group concludes that "a reasonable person would certainly have sufficient basis to question the impartiality of Justice Kagan if she were permitted to prepare the defense of a case as an advocate and then switch roles and judge the defense of the same case as a justice." (Emphasis included)

The effort is spearheaded by Phillip Jauregui, President of Judicial Action Group, a Washington based organization dedicated to "judicial renewal" by returning "the judiciary to its proper role of deciding cases and not legislating from the bench."  

The letter from the distinguished group of leaders outlines five essential grievances and questions that they feel should be explored regarding the need for Kagan to recuse herself from the ObamaCare case, as follows:

During her Supreme Court Confirmation hearing, Kagan admitted she was present for "at least one" meeting in which the PPACA (ObamaCare) litigation was discussed.
Solicitor General Kagan made the unusual, but not unprecedented, decision for The Solicitor General’s office to coordinate with the Department of Justice (“DOJ”) while preparing the earliest defenses of PPACA rather than following standard practice of waiting until the act reached the appellate courts.
Kagan personally appointed the over-sight of the PPACA defense to her top deputy – a political appointee – who zealously stated his desire to “crush” those challenging the constitutionality of PPACA.
Kagan both received and responded to emails about the PPACA litigation.
The Department of Justice now refuses to produce in whole in response to the aforementioned FOIA requests, claiming that such documents are “privileged” under an exemption traditionally reserved for those participating in their role as attorneys in a case.
The final grievance above is in reference to the DOJ's continued refusal to provide documents as originally requested by Chairman Smith last July such that the Judiciary Committee might "properly understand any involvement by Justice Kagan in matters relating to health care legislation or litigation while she was Solicitor General."  More than just a stiff-arm refusal, the DOJ called the Judiciary Committee's reasonable request "unseemly." 

Elena Kagan's fingerprints and DNA are all over the White House's efforts to muscle through passage of ObamaCare and anticipate the legal defense of the legislation.  The Leader's Group raises the obvious question of how can the same person be both advocate and impartial jurist on the same issue.  Imagine for a moment if the shoe was on the other foot – if we were talking about a conservative judge and a conservative issue?  Say Henry Hyde, the great pro-life champion and author of the Hyde Amendment, was a member of the SCOTUS and a pro-life question was before the Court?  The liberal media and the left would be incensed, animated, and outraged at even a slight consideration that Hyde might not recuse himself.  Yet, all we hear about the obvious need for Kagan to recuse herself from the ObamaCare case is silence, and charges that to even raise the question is "unseemly."  

jesusbod

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Re: Should Kagan or Thomas recuse themselves from Obamacare case?
« Reply #21 on: November 19, 2011, 07:44:32 AM »
Kagan should not be part of the Healthcare debate. Thomas should be able to hear the case since it is his wife and not him pushing for the repeal.

Soul Crusher

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Re: Should Kagan or Thomas recuse themselves from Obamacare case?
« Reply #22 on: November 19, 2011, 07:51:42 AM »
At this point - I think we should do a national referendum in 2012 on this.  Let the voters decide since we are the ones who have to endure the treason of this national disgrace.

Soul Crusher

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Re: Should Kagan or Thomas recuse themselves from Obamacare case?
« Reply #23 on: December 09, 2011, 02:15:25 PM »
Internal DOJ Email: Kagan Was Brought Into Loop on Mark Levin’s Obamacare Complaint
CNSNews ^

Posted on Friday, December 09, 2011 5:03:58 PM by Sub-Driver

nternal DOJ Email: Kagan Was Brought Into Loop on Mark Levin’s Obamacare Complaint By Terence P. Jeffrey December 9, 2011

(CNSNews.com) - Internal Justice Department email communications made just days before the House of Representatives passed the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act show that then-Solicitor General Elena Kagan was brought into the loop as DOJ began preparing to respond to an anticipated legal complaint that Mark Levin and the Landmark Legal Foundation were planning to file against the act if the House used a procedural rule to “deem” the bill passed even if members never directly voted on it.

In another internal DOJ email communication that same week, Kagan alerted the chief of DOJ’s Office of Legal Counsel to the constitutional argument that a former U.S. Appeals Court judge was making against the use of this rule.

Then, during Kagan’s Supreme Court confirmation process four months later, Republicans on the Senate Judiciary Committee asked her in writing if she had “ever been asked about your opinion” or “offered any view or comments” on the “the underlying legal or constitutional issues related to any proposed health care legislation, including but not limited to Pub. L. No. 111-148 [PPACA], or the underlying legal or constitutional issues related to potential litigation resulting from such legislation?"

Kagan answered both questions: “No.”


(Excerpt) Read more at cnsnews.com ...


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