Slams GOP On Defense

[blacken700]

Source: TPM

Democrats have three words for Republican presidential candidates who attack President Obama as weak on defense in Tuesday’s foreign policy debate: Osama Bin Laden.

Three of the leading military minds in the party, former NATO Commander General Wesley Clark, former Navy Secretary Richard Danzig, and retired Major General Paul Eaton, lit into the Republican field at a press conference in Washington for their shifting positions and made clear that Obama’s military achievements — including the Al Qaeda leader’s death — will be fair political game in 2012.

“I think he is remarkably strong,” Danzig said of Obama’s national security record. “The more this election is about security issues the more advantageous that is to this president.”

~snip~

“While President Obama has kept his promises across the globe, the leading Republicans have been all over the map, offering sound-bite critiques and shifting positions with every change in the headlines as they seek partisan advantage,” Clark said.

[headhuntersix]

Lets see...Eaton is a dem...clark..dem and a retard and danzig was a clinton apointee and Obama advisor..what are they gonna say? Nice try.

[Fury]

Methinks the tens of millions of out-of-work Americans couldn't give a fuck about him killing OBL.  

What's he going to do? Run an entire campaign on killing Bin Laden? LOL. Good luck with that.

[howardroark]

For some reason, I doubt that Obama personally found out where Bin Laden was... THAT was the doing of the military and the DoD independently of the President.

[240 is Back]

For some reason, I doubt that Obama personally found out where Bin Laden was... THAT was the doing of the military and the DoD independently of the President.

it was a HUGE risk to send US troops into that city, right next to the Paki version of west point. 

those choppers could have been shot down and we lose a lot of people.
Or it could have been a huge int'l incident.

So it was a big deal for obama to agree to that.  It could have hurt him in a big way in polls, if OBL wasn't there.  He took a gamble.

[Soul Crusher]

it was a HUGE risk to send US troops into that city, right next to the Paki version of west point. 

those choppers could have been shot down and we lose a lot of people.
Or it could have been a huge int'l incident.

So it was a big deal for obama to agree to that.  It could have hurt him in a big way in polls, if OBL wasn't there.  He took a gamble.

Is that why he stayed outside playing golf the whole time so that if it went wrong he would not take any blame? 

[headhuntersix]

The New Yorker account and the new book are both most likely full of shit in some area's. It is weird that JSOC actually released a statement saying that the book was wrong, they never say anything. The truth is in the middle but based on other accounts of life in the admin, I think Obama allowed Panetta to run this and gain some distance. Obama is not politically courageous. We conduct plenty of raids every day over there. The political fall out would be bad had it gone wrong....but not as bad if the target came out in the media. Obama could easily say it was a single raid like the thousands launched that he doesn't have visibility on. If the media caught on that it was supposed to be OBL..then he has a problem.....but none of this matters, OBL is dead (I guess) and the economy sucks.

[240 is Back]

Is that why he stayed outside playing golf the whole time so that if it went wrong he would not take any blame? 

oh, his ass would have taken serious blame if we lost 30 SEALS and OBL got away... or if OBL was at the pizza joint at the time and avoided capture.

his location didn't matter - his order for such an int'l mission sure did.

[dario73]

it was a HUGE risk to send US troops into that city, right next to the Paki version of west point. 

Please. Let someone who knows on this subject shed some light.

The New Yorker account and the new book are both most likely full of shit in some area's. It is weird that JSOC actually released a statement saying that the book was wrong, they never say anything. The truth is in the middle but based on other accounts of life in the admin, I think Obama allowed Panetta to run this and gain some distance. Obama is not politically courageous. We conduct plenty of raids every day over there. The political fall out would be bad had it gone wrong....but not as bad if the target came out in the media. Obama could easily say it was a single raid like the thousands launched that he doesn't have visibility on. If the media caught on that it was supposed to be OBL..then he has a problem.....but none of this matters, OBL is dead (I guess) and the economy sucks.

[howardroark]

it was a HUGE risk to send US troops into that city, right next to the Paki version of west point. 

those choppers could have been shot down and we lose a lot of people.
Or it could have been a huge int'l incident.

So it was a big deal for obama to agree to that.  It could have hurt him in a big way in polls, if OBL wasn't there.  He took a gamble.

He also could have bombed the compound for the exact same result with waaaay less risk.

Either way, the assassination of Bin Laden wasn't the doing of Obama. Bush would have done the same and so would McCain. A President Ron Paul would have captured him though 

[headhuntersix]

A know a guy who knows a guy..so take it for what its worth. This guy seems to think they walked off with him. The "guy" is with 160th.  Who knows....you have to remember Bush was dealing with a different admin in Pakistan. He had Mushariff who was hanging by a thread. Nobody here is privy to the politics involved. India, Pakistan...nukes. Its more complicated then Iraq....and very different.

[240 is Back]

He also could have bombed the compound for the exact same result with waaaay less risk.

Either way, the assassination of Bin Laden wasn't the doing of Obama. Bush would have done the same and so would McCain. A President Ron Paul would have captured him though 

I thought there were a few times that OBL was known in pakistan, but the risk by clinton and bush was deemed to just be too high.  If they messed, it would be a worldwide shitstorm.

IF Obama had tried and missed, you bet your ass a military excursion a block from theior "West Point" with 30 dead seals on the ground would have been a major fcking blow-up against Obama.  No doubt. 

"How irresponsible is this man, chasing bad intel?" Shouted Newt.   
"Only I have the presence of mind to find this guy" mocked Herman Cain.   
"That man can't shoot straight" jabbed Perry. 
"I'll catch bin laden, and Obama will not" proclaimed Mitt.

And you nipplesucking getbiggers would have repeated it. 

Obama took a huge risk on that mission, ya gotta admit that.

[howardroark]

I thought there were a few times that OBL was known in pakistan, but the risk by clinton and bush was deemed to just be too high.  If they messed, it would be a worldwide shitstorm.

IF Obama had tried and missed, you bet your ass a military excursion a block from theior "West Point" with 30 dead seals on the ground would have been a major fcking blow-up against Obama.  No doubt. 

"How irresponsible is this man, chasing bad intel?" Shouted Newt.   
"Only I have the presence of mind to find this guy" mocked Herman Cain.   
"That man can't shoot straight" jabbed Perry. 
"I'll catch bin laden, and Obama will not" proclaimed Mitt.

And you nipplesucking getbiggers would have repeated it. 

Obama took a huge risk on that mission, ya gotta admit that.

Honestly, I don't think he took a huge risk on that mission and I certainly do think that Bush would have gone through with it, as would McCain. If he would have wanted to minimize the risk, all he had to do was drop a bomb or launch a missile. The fact that he didn't do so leads me to believe that the risk in actually landing spec ops guys there was relatively low-risk. And by "relatively low-risk," I mean that the risk was low for the reward.

[240 is Back]

you're telling me, with that many people in the room, it would not have gotten out?  POTUS and 20+ people, with that many Seals on the ground - and if the Seals had gotten shot down - Pak woudln't have made some noise about it?

And you drop a bomb, you don't get the body and the intel.  And you kill a shitload more people. 

Oh it would have leaked.  YOu have getbig CTers and youtube clips doing mouthreading and 'experts' analyzing birth certificates.  You don't think 2 choppers blown to bits in the paki military zone are noticed? 

[howardroark]

you're telling me, with that many people in the room, it would not have gotten out?  POTUS and 20+ people, with that many Seals on the ground - and if the Seals had gotten shot down - Pak woudln't have made some noise about it?

And you drop a bomb, you don't get the body and the intel.  And you kill a shitload more people. 

Oh it would have leaked.  YOu have getbig CTers and youtube clips doing mouthreading and 'experts' analyzing birth certificates.  You don't think 2 choppers blown to bits in the paki military zone are noticed? 

I do think that had the mission failed there would have been a huge outcry. What I'm saying is that it was a low-risk mission relative to the reward. Most Presidents would have approved that mission in light of the reward.

And again, if the risk were too high, he would have dropped a bomb instead of sending SEALs after him. He would have gotten the same political reward for doing so for 1/100th of the risk. And yes, there would be a body to confirm the kill... remember when al-Zarqawi was killed? Two 500lb bombs landed on top of his safehouse and we still had this to tell the story:

[240 is Back]

And yes, there would be a body to confirm the kill... remember when al-Zarqawi was killed? Two 500lb bombs landed on top of his safehouse and we still had this to tell the story:

I won't even argue that there's a good chance OBL's body would have been shredded and required DNA testing.

Do you think Pakistan would have said "Hey, we found this body, which is proof that we hid OBL for years"  ?

Or do you think they would have hidden the body and condemned the US attack?

[howardroark]

I won't even argue that there's a good chance OBL's body would have been shredded and required DNA testing.

Do you think Pakistan would have said "Hey, we found this body, which is proof that we hid OBL for years"  ?

Or do you think they would have hidden the body and condemned the US attack?

Honey, we've been bombing targets inside Pakistan for years now and there's a difference between "Pakistan hiding Bin Laden" and "Bin Laden hiding in Pakistan."

And even if his body would be destroyed in a bombing (which isn't necessarily true, as I've shown with al-Zarqawi) there's more than one way to confirm a kill. That's what you have intel for.

The facts are these: if the risk was too high to land a SEAL team, Obama would have bombed the compound. Bin Laden would still have been killed and Obama would still get the political reward. The fact that landing a SEAL team was chosen shows that it simply wasn't as high risk as you make it out to be. The risk was low relative to the reward. Obama didn't do anything more or less than what his predecessor or what his opponent in the 2008 election would have done... As simple as that.

[240 is Back]

he was a fraction of a mile from their hilitary HQ, in a pretty big compound that was built a few years back.

Pakistan is very highly controlled in that area.  You don't stop for a sandwich without the govt knowing. 

There were elements in the govt protecting him - repubs and dems alike agreed on that. 

You bomb that place, and pakistan puts that body away and criticizes you.  NO WAY they admit they had him.  Obama gets no trophy.

[howardroark]

he was a fraction of a mile from their hilitary HQ, in a pretty big compound that was built a few years back.

Pakistan is very highly controlled in that area.  You don't stop for a sandwich without the govt knowing.  

There were elements in the govt protecting him - repubs and dems alike agreed on that.  

You bomb that place, and pakistan puts that body away and criticizes you.  NO WAY they admit they had him.  Obama gets no trophy.

C'mon now. You don't really think that a third world government has its country on lockdown like that, do you? If that were the case, then Pakistan would not be having all of the problems that it does, as any opposition would be immediately squelched.

And even if Pakistan would try to hide Bin Laden's death... so what? Do you really think that the most advanced, most elite intelligence agencies in the world (OUR intelligence agencies) would not be able to discern the fact that Bin Laden had been killed? How do you think our intelligence agencies figured out where Bin Laden was hiding in the first place?