Author Topic: SWAT Team kills Marine  (Read 6081 times)

JBGRAY

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SWAT Team kills Marine
« on: November 27, 2011, 05:43:18 PM »
TUCSON, Ariz. (AP) — Jose Guerena Ortiz was sleeping after an exhausting 12-hour night shift at a copper mine. His wife, Vanessa, had begun breakfast. Their 4-year-old son, Joel, asked to watch cartoons.

An ordinary morning was unfolding in the middle-class Tucson neighborhood — until an armored vehicle pulled into the family's driveway and men wearing heavy body armor and helmets climbed out, weapons ready.

They were a sheriff's department SWAT team who had come to execute a search warrant. But Vanessa Guerena insisted she had no idea, when she heard a "boom" and saw a dark-suited man pass by a window, that it was police outside her home. She shook her husband awake and told him someone was firing a gun outside.

A U.S. Marine veteran of the Iraq war, he was only trying to defend his family, she said, when he grabbed his own gun — an AR-15 assault rifle.

What happened next was captured on video after a member of the SWAT team activated a helmet-mounted camera.

The officers — four of whom carried .40-caliber handguns while another had an AR-15 — moved to the door, briefly sounding a siren, then shouting "Police!" in English and Spanish. With a thrust of a battering ram, they broke the door open. Eight seconds passed before they opened fire into the house.

And 10 seconds later, Guerena lay dying in a hallway 20-feet from the front door. The SWAT team fired 71 rounds, riddling his body 22 times, while his wife and child cowered in a closet.

"Hurry up, he's bleeding," Vanessa Guerena pleaded with a 911 operator. "I don't know why they shoot him. They open the door and shoot him. Please get me an ambulance."

When she emerged from the home minutes later, officers hustled her to a police van, even as she cried that her husband was unresponsive and bleeding, and that her young son was still inside. She begged them to get Joel out of the house before he saw his father in a puddle of blood on the floor.

But soon afterward, the boy appeared in the front doorway in Spider-Man pajamas, crying.

The Pima County Sheriff's Department said its SWAT team was at the home because Guerena was suspected of being involved in a drug-trafficking organization and that the shooting happened because he arrived at the door brandishing a gun. The county prosecutor's office says the shooting was justified.

But six months after the May 5 police gunfire shattered a peaceful morning and a family's life, investigators have made no arrests in the case that led to the raid. Outraged friends, co-workers and fellow Marines have called the shooting an injustice and demanded further investigation. A family lawyer has filed a multimillion-dollar lawsuit against the sheriff's office. And amid the outcry in online forums and social media outlets, the sheriff's 54-second video, which found its way to YouTube, has drawn more than 275,000 views.

The many questions swirling around the incident all boil down to one, repeated by Vanessa Guerena, as quoted in the 1,000-page police report on the case:

"Why, why, why was he killed?"

___

Outside the family's stucco home, a giant framed photo of Guerena in his Marine uniform sat placed in the front bay window, American flags waved in the yard and signs condemning his death were taped to the garage door.

The 27-year-old Guerena had completed two tours in Iraq, and a former superior there was among those who couldn't make sense of his death.

Leo Verdugo said Guerena stood out among other Marines for his maturity and sense of responsibility. Verdugo, who retired as a master sergeant last year after 25 years in the Marines, placed Guerena in charge of an important helicopter refueling mission in the remote west desert of Iraq.

"He had a lot of integrity and he was a man of his word," Verdugo said.

Verdugo, who also lives in Tucson, said Guerena came to him for advice in 2006 about whether to retire from the Marines and apply to the Border Patrol.

When Verdugo ran into Guerena and his wife at a Motor Vehicle Department office about a month before Guerena was killed, Verdugo said that Guerena told him that the Border Patrol had turned him down because of problems with his vision and that he had instead taken a mining job.

Those who worked with Guerena at ASARCO'S Mission Mine said the man they knew would never be a part of drug smuggling.

"I don't care what the cops say. I don't believe for one moment Jose was involved in anything illegal," said Sharon Hargrave, a co-worker, adding through tears: "They were judge, jury and executioner, and there was no excuse."

Guerena worked as a "helper" at two crushers in the mine, shoveling piles of rocks that fall from conveyor belts and wheel-barrowing heavy debris. "No one in their right mind" would choose this work, which paid about $41,000 a year, if they were bringing in drug smuggling money, Hargrave said.

"He was a hell of a worker," she said. "He's got good judgment and I could trust him."

She said Guerena talked constantly about his wife and two sons, Joel and Jose Jr., 5, who'd gone to school the morning of the shooting. "I know he was definitely in love with his wife and in love with his kids," she said.

Kevin Stephens, a chief steward at Mission mine and head of the miners' union there, said bluntly: "Personally, I think he was murdered, and that is the feeling that is out here."

But the sheriff's office said just because Guerena was a Marine and worked at a mine doesn't mean he couldn't be involved in drug trafficking.

"We know from our experiences that good people turn their lives around and do bad things, and this guy was bad irrespective of his honorable discharge as a Marine," said sheriff's chief of investigations Rick Kastigar.

He said Guerena was suspected of involvement in a drug operation that specialized in ripping off other smugglers. One tip held that Guerena was "the muscle" of the organization, or in Kastigar's words, "the individual that was directed to exact revenge."

An affidavit supporting the search warrant that precipitated the raid describes the department's suspicions about Guerena in a drug investigation that appeared more focused on his brother, and his brother's father-in-law. Guerena's brother does not have a listed number and other family members have ignored written requests from the AP for comment.

Sheriff's Capt. Chris Nanos, who heads the criminal investigations division and oversaw the Guerena case, said that high-powered rifles and bulletproof vests that were found in Guerena's home after the shooting back up investigators' belief that Guerena was involved in drug trafficking. A shotgun found in the home was reported stolen in Tucson in 2008.

In the affidavit, sheriff's Detective Alex Tisch laid out the case against Guerena's family. It details two instances of drug seizures, one in April 2009 in which Jose Guerena was found in a home with other people who had just dropped off 1,000 pounds of marijuana at a separate residence, and another in October 2009 in which a man who had met with Guerena's brother was found with drugs and weapons.

Neither Guerena nor his brother was charged.

The affidavit also cites two traffic stops of Jose Guerena.

The first was on Jan. 28, 2009, when an officer pulled Guerena and two other men over north of Tucson. The officer seized a gun from Guerena, a marijuana pipe from Guerena's cousin and marijuana hidden in canisters of lemonade and hot cocoa that were under the feet of Guerena's friend.

The officer arrested Guerena on charges of weapons misconduct, marijuana possession and possession of drug paraphernalia. But prosecutors filed no charges against him.

The other stop came Sept. 15, 2009, when the sheriff's office pulled over a truck leaving the home of Guerena's brother. Jose Guerena was in the passenger seat and another man was driving. Officers searched the truck and found commercial-sized rolls of plastic wrap that they say are commonly used to package marijuana. No arrests were made.

Tisch wrote in the affidavit that the past arrests of Guerena and members of his family, combined with observations during months of surveillance led detectives to believe that the family was operating a mid-level drug-trafficking organization in the Tucson area.

The investigation is ongoing, the sheriff's office says.

___

After the SWAT video circulated, people who didn't know Guerena traveled from as far as California to march in protest of his shooting, and an Alaska woman began an online petition calling for a federal investigation of the SWAT team. Hundreds of people across the country have written on several Facebook pages dedicated to Guerena with messages that include, "He fought for our country, now we must fight for him."

The Guereno family's lawyer, Christopher Scileppi, filed a lawsuit on their behalf seeking damages from the sheriff's office, the officers involved in the shooting and other officials. The lawsuit didn't specify how much money the family was seeking, but a notice of claim filed Aug. 9 put the amount at $20 million.

"During this investigation, extremely little evidence, if any, was found to raise even a suspicion that Jose Guerena was involved in any possible drug trafficking ring," the notice says.

Scileppi said the fact that Guerena had been fired at 71 times and hit 22 times was "grotesque," and "almost a caricature of an overly excited group of poorly trained law enforcement agents."

Kastigar sharply disputed that, calling the Pima County SWAT team one of the best of its kind in the nation. "We're not a bunch of country bumpkins in southern Arizona with big bellies and cowboy hats," he said.

The shooting was justified, he said, because Guerena pointed his AR-15 at the SWAT officers and said, "I've got something for you," before they opened fire.

The five SWAT team members who shot Guerena believed that he had fired his weapon first, he said. Subsequent investigation revealed that the gun's safety was on and hadn't been fired. Ultimately, that is not an issue, Kastigar said.

"What reasonable person comes to the front door and points a rifle at people?" he said. "It takes several milliseconds to flip the switch from safety to fire and take out a couple of SWAT officers. I'm firmly of the opinion that he was attempting to shoot at us."

The officers laid down "suppressive" fire because one had tripped and fallen and the others thought he'd been shot.

"You point a gun at police, you're going to get shot," Kastigar said.

The five officers who shot Guerena declined to speak to the AP through Mike Storie, a police union lawyer who represents them and defends their actions.

"Anytime that they are faced with a serious, imminent and deadly threat, they are entitled and justified to use deadly force," he said. "And when Guerena came around the corner and lifted an AR-15 and pointed it at them, that provided the justification."

An independent expert, Chuck Drago, a former longtime SWAT officer for Fort Lauderdale, Fla., police who now does consulting on use of force and other law enforcement issues, said that the shooting itself appeared justified.

"It's a horrible, horrible tragedy, but if they walked in the door and somebody came at them with an assault rifle, that would be a justifiable response," said Drago. "It doesn't matter whether he's innocent or not."

But after examining elements of the search affidavit, Drago questioned whether the sheriff's office truly had probable cause.

"When you back up and look at why they're there in the first place and whether the search warrant was proper, my mind starts struggling," Drago said. "There are a lot of things that don't make a lot of sense."

Soul Crusher

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Re: SWAT Team kills Marine
« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2011, 05:45:59 PM »
OLD news!    I have a police state thread running on pol board that was started w this case in mind. 


There s q video of this raid on YouTube. 

calfzilla

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Re: SWAT Team kills Marine
« Reply #2 on: November 28, 2011, 12:43:55 AM »
Seems like a justified shoot, nothing to see here folks move it along.

Radical Plato

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Re: SWAT Team kills Marine
« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2011, 01:16:43 AM »
These cops are just professional criminals, I dont know how you Americans dont do anything when this shit happens, it could be a Getbigger next.
 ;D
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Re: SWAT Team kills Marine
« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2011, 06:47:36 AM »
These cops are just professional criminals, I dont know how you Americans dont do anything when this shit happens, it could be a Getbigger next.
 ;D

What exactly did they do wrong?  They were executing a search warrant that was handed down to them by their chain of command.  The suspect in question raised a firearm and pointed it at them.  Their sole purpose was to execute the warrant, and make sure they do not get hurt in the process.  I'd say they did a fine job.

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Re: SWAT Team kills Marine
« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2011, 06:52:09 AM »
OLD news!    I have a police state thread running on pol board that was started w this case in mind. 


There s q video of this raid on YouTube. 
Well why don't you go back there then. :-*

Swede!

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Re: SWAT Team kills Marine
« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2011, 06:55:56 AM »
What exactly did they do wrong?  They were executing a search warrant that was handed down to them by their chain of command.  The suspect in question raised a firearm and pointed it at them.  Their sole purpose was to execute the warrant, and make sure they do not get hurt in the process.  I'd say they did a fine job.

there should be another type of approach or something. Because if you get waken up by something like that it will take a While to understand wtf is going on (as in Minutes) and then ANYONE that wanted to defend their family would get Shot. Guilty or not.

Then again americans cops shoots even if the fella is holding a golf club also lol. Like that poses a risk to 7 swat guys.

Radical Plato

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Re: SWAT Team kills Marine
« Reply #7 on: November 28, 2011, 06:56:06 AM »
What exactly did they do wrong?  They were executing a search warrant that was handed down to them by their chain of command.  The suspect in question raised a firearm and pointed it at them.  Their sole purpose was to execute the warrant, and make sure they do not get hurt in the process.  I'd say they did a fine job.
What did they do wrong? Well for one, one of the idiots fell over, leading to another idiot, not able to work out if his partner was actually shot or not, just decided to fire and then shooting a man who's firearm had it's safety on.  Real Professional Job. If thats your elite.  I am laughing
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Re: SWAT Team kills Marine
« Reply #8 on: November 28, 2011, 07:08:27 AM »
What did they do wrong? Well for one, one of the idiots fell over, leading to another idiot, not able to work out if his partner was actually shot or not, just decided to fire and then shooting a man who's firearm had it's safety on.  Real Professional Job. If thats your elite.  I am laughing

Yes, an officer tripped and fell.  That's irrelevant to them discharging their weapons.  Trip or not, they still would've fired upon anyone pointing a firearm at them.  The safety is also irrelevant.  When he pointed the firearm at them, were they supposed to ask him if the safety was on, and what his intentions were? 

Again, they did exactly what they were supposed to do.  Execute a search warrant, and make sure they all go home alive.  Do you think the wives and children of the officers wish they would've asked him about the safety first?

Hypothetically, if you were part of that SWAT team, how would you have handled it differently?  Serious question.

mass243

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Re: SWAT Team kills Marine
« Reply #9 on: November 28, 2011, 07:10:20 AM »

That's scary shit... Someone assaulting your home when you're sleeping  :-\

Luckily that kind of insanity doesn't happen here !

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Re: SWAT Team kills Marine
« Reply #10 on: November 28, 2011, 07:12:59 AM »
Yes, an officer tripped and fell.  That's irrelevant to them discharging their weapons.  Trip or not, they still would've fired upon anyone pointing a firearm at them.  The safety is also irrelevant.  When he pointed the firearm at them, were they supposed to ask him if the safety was on, and what his intentions were? 

Again, they did exactly what they were supposed to do.  Execute a search warrant, and make sure they all go home alive.  Do you think the wives and children of the officers wish they would've asked him about the safety first?

Hypothetically, if you were part of that SWAT team, how would you have handled it differently?  Serious question.

fuck you and fuck them.
cold blooded murders and they all should pay.
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Re: SWAT Team kills Marine
« Reply #11 on: November 28, 2011, 07:13:45 AM »


Treated worse then bin laden :/

whats the deal with the shot at 00:56 ? to make sure the fella that didn't fire a single shot Died? since everyone stopped shooting. then someone shot once more.. The previous 70 shots fired against someone that didnt fire even once wasn't enough?

mass243

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Re: SWAT Team kills Marine
« Reply #12 on: November 28, 2011, 07:16:22 AM »


Treated worse then bin laden :/

what the deal with the shot at 00:50 ? to make sure the fella that didn't fiore a single shot Died? since everyone stopped shooting. then someone shot one more..


Someone really should take Kim Jong Il down!

This is getting too far...  :'(

Twaddle

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Re: SWAT Team kills Marine
« Reply #13 on: November 28, 2011, 07:17:40 AM »
fuck you and fuck them.
cold blooded murders and they all should pay.

Wow, murder?  Why should they be charged with murder?  Serious question?

Radical Plato

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Re: SWAT Team kills Marine
« Reply #14 on: November 28, 2011, 07:17:52 AM »
Yes, an officer tripped and fell.  That's irrelevant to them discharging their weapons.  Trip or not, they still would've fired upon anyone pointing a firearm at them.  The safety is also irrelevant.  When he pointed the firearm at them, were they supposed to ask him if the safety was on, and what his intentions were?  

Again, they did exactly what they were supposed to do.  Execute a search warrant, and make sure they all go home alive.  Do you think the wives and children of the officers wish they would've asked him about the safety first?

Hypothetically, if you were part of that SWAT team, how would you have handled it differently?  Serious question.
It was his partner tripping that led him to believe his partner had been shot - all I'm saying is, the ELITE cant tell when a man has been shot or not. Not very Elite then is he.

I would never participate in the running of a Police State - so I would never join the SWAT or any authoritive power group anywhere.  I am ready for anarchy, lets board up the windows, lets get it on - you want a piece of this.  Anyway, the only mistake that dude made was going to sleep with the safety on, I would have shot as many of those Corporate Criminals, the moment I knew they were on my property. My death would have been for something good and right, fucking pigs just do what they want these days, a mans home isnt even sacred anymore.
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Re: SWAT Team kills Marine
« Reply #15 on: November 28, 2011, 07:18:21 AM »

Someone really should take Kim Jong Il down!

This is getting too far...  :'(

70 shots gets fired, he gets hit 20 times. He didnt fire back once. Everyone stops shooting. 3 second later someone fires Once more. This is an execution..

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Re: SWAT Team kills Marine
« Reply #16 on: November 28, 2011, 07:30:40 AM »
Yes, an officer tripped and fell.  That's irrelevant to them discharging their weapons.  Trip or not, they still would've fired upon anyone pointing a firearm at them.  The safety is also irrelevant.  When he pointed the firearm at them, were they supposed to ask him if the safety was on, and what his intentions were? 

Again, they did exactly what they were supposed to do.  Execute a search warrant, and make sure they all go home alive.  Do you think the wives and children of the officers wish they would've asked him about the safety first?

Hypothetically, if you were part of that SWAT team, how would you have handled it differently?  Serious question.


What is your exact location?
Team Schering Oss NL

Twaddle

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Re: SWAT Team kills Marine
« Reply #17 on: November 28, 2011, 07:32:59 AM »

What is your exact location?

Why do you want to know?

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Re: SWAT Team kills Marine
« Reply #18 on: November 28, 2011, 07:36:06 AM »
Luckily that kind of insanity doesn't happen here !

Not enough democracy.

Radical Plato

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Re: SWAT Team kills Marine
« Reply #19 on: November 28, 2011, 07:40:55 AM »

What is your exact location?
Why do you want to know?
ROFL - I dont know why but Getbig has made me laugh really hard tonight  ;D
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Twaddle

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Re: SWAT Team kills Marine
« Reply #20 on: November 28, 2011, 07:43:54 AM »
ROFL - I dont know why but Getbig has made me laugh really hard tonight  ;D

Me too.  Here's to getbig, and more laughs.  Cheers!

mass243

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Re: SWAT Team kills Marine
« Reply #21 on: November 28, 2011, 08:20:36 AM »

tommywishbone

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Re: SWAT Team kills Marine
« Reply #22 on: November 28, 2011, 08:33:42 AM »
Now we are all safe from sleeping copper mine workers. Praise the lord.

Not only will the pigs not get in any legal trouble, they will all get paid time-off because of the stress of murdering a citizen.

Land of the free, home of the brave.
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Re: SWAT Team kills Marine
« Reply #23 on: November 28, 2011, 08:38:58 AM »
Cops botched this one, no way around it.
The fact that they opened fire because one of their own tripped and fell is inexcusable.
Of course they are going to say he pointed a weapon at them (and try and justify the warrant), however, from reading the report and putting two and two together, its clear they are trying to cover their tracks.

One of them tripped and fell, the others reacted and shot him dead. I dont know if there is another video showing the man actually pointing his AR at them, but cops are not Soldiers, they are supposed to give the man a chance to lay his weapon down and cooperate, they botched it plain and simple.

Like someone else said, any of us would have been shot dead in that situation. If I head my door getting kicked in, your damn right I would come out with a weapon. And I would be laying dead.

Botched. They murdered that man. I hope it comes out he's completely innocent so something will actually have to happen to those cops, thats bullshit.

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Re: SWAT Team kills Marine
« Reply #24 on: November 28, 2011, 08:44:36 AM »
The addresses of those pigs should be posted. Lets see how they like getting raided and shot down in cold blood.
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