Author Topic: ALL ABOUT DECA AND NPP  (Read 26797 times)

aesthetics

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Re: ALL ABOUT DECA AND NPP
« Reply #25 on: December 03, 2011, 11:13:53 PM »
I don't understand what up and down regulation really mean to be honest. Is it like having to take more or less drugs to have the same effect?

If thats the case than maybe it could be an explanation why someone would experience sides they haven't before. Like becoming more sensitive to a drugs androgenic/estrogenic side effects.

no, as i said upregulation just means your cells birth more receptor sites, which means the upperlimit for how many androgens will cause effects will increase. like, this is a very crude and simplistic analogy as it that misses some crucial details but androgen receptors are very complex and i'm lazy:

so imagine you have a bunch of rectangular slots open on a wooden board, lets say you have 10 rectangular spaces. now, you have 15 rectangular pegs (testosterone), 10 circular pegs (estrogen) and 5 square pegs (an anti-androgen like spironolactone). now, you only have 10 spaces total, while you have 30 total pegs, only 10 of those can get onto the board and then cause gene expression and changes to the dna of the muscle cell. obviously, the estrogen cannot fit into the space at all, so those will be ignored, but that leaves 20 pegs left. now, for sake of simplicity, testosterone will have a higher binding affinity than the anti-androgen (when in reality it is completely reversed), but since in this example test has a higher binding affinity, 8 testosterone pegs out of the 15 testosterone pegs bind to the rectangular slots, 2 anti-androgens bind to the remaining 2 open slots (but poorly and do not activate the receptor) on the wooden board. you have 8 spaces expressing gene transcription, 2 of those are inactive. when your androgen receptors upregulate, your cells birth more total androgen receptor sites, or pegs in this example. so let's say you now have 15 total rectangular slots open after upregulation, while still having the same amount of hormones, and as a result you now have 11 testosterone pegs attaching to the board, out of the 15 total testosterone and then you have 4 anti-androgens binding to the remaining 4 open spaces. the result is more testosterone can be put to use and cause greater anabolism and hypertrophy.

now, again, i just want to say this was a very simplistic analogy because first of all you won't realistically max out your androgen receptor sites until you hit about 3 grams of gear a week (which is why 3grams is usually the number people stop at with high dosages). also, secondly, and very importantly, not all steroids express their effects through androgen receptor sites, as many, many orals have poor binding affinity and cause physiological changes and gene expression through other pathways. example, anavar is known for reducing stomach fat exceptionally well, and it does this by being an anti-glucocorticoid, which suppresses the effects of cortisol, cortisol being something that increases body fat specifically stomach fat, and also anavar increase thyroid hormone uptake in cells. the combination of the two causes a greater reduction in stomach fat, compared to other steroids, like tren, which is also a potent anti-glucocorticord.

note on tren: tren is also a strong anti-glucocorticord, through this effect it lowers protein degradation (muscle protein catabolism), while increasing nutrient partitioning as well as being an antagonist to the mineral-corticoid receptor site, which lowers sodium uptake and causes the drying effect (also increases likelihood of cramping) and most importantly tren is a potent thermogenic through the means of stimulating prostaglandin production (these things just cause bodyfat loss, essentially and are the things responsible for tren cough). all these things combined is why tren is the absolute king of cutting hormones and recomping hormones. it's also an extremely good bulking hormone because it increases myoblast proliferation (satellite stem cells that latch onto damaged muscle fibers and cause them to hypertrophy) which is the mode of action hgh causes as well to push people beyond aas limits (though hgh does other things too so it's not as though tren will be a replacement)

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Re: ALL ABOUT DECA AND NPP
« Reply #26 on: December 03, 2011, 11:15:46 PM »
i typed too much but after typing up half of it and realizing that i said fuck it because i wasnt going to delete it and write a more concise version

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Re: ALL ABOUT DECA AND NPP
« Reply #27 on: December 04, 2011, 01:56:29 AM »
50-75 mg of T3 will kill prolactin from tren or deca,would also help with protein absorbtion and burning fat.Would be a good add  ;)
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Re: ALL ABOUT DECA AND NPP
« Reply #28 on: December 04, 2011, 03:44:59 AM »
450 NPP, 300 TEST IT IS.

I TRAIN 6 DAYS A WEEK, WONDER IF I SHOULD DO 75MG NPP, 50MG TNE PRE-WORKOUT ED. OR 150MG NPP, 100MG TEST E ED.
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Re: ALL ABOUT DECA AND NPP
« Reply #29 on: December 04, 2011, 04:35:15 AM »
6 days a week.That's too damn much if you wanna grow and recover,split them in 4. ::)
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Re: ALL ABOUT DECA AND NPP
« Reply #30 on: December 04, 2011, 05:30:33 AM »
6 days a week.That's too damn much if you wanna grow and recover,split them in 4. ::)

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Re: ALL ABOUT DECA AND NPP
« Reply #31 on: December 04, 2011, 05:39:53 AM »
Suit what works best for you...
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Re: ALL ABOUT DECA AND NPP
« Reply #32 on: December 04, 2011, 06:29:54 AM »
I have ran both.  They each have a slightly different effect on me.

Deca-Great mass gains but i hold way too much water for me.  Joints feel amazing while on deca. But i can get deca dick if i am not very careful and keep my test higher.  I usually run deca in the 400mg ew range.  Prolactin also seems to be an issue for me on deca if i dont keep it around 400mg ew.

NPP-LOVE this shit.  I get all the benefits of deca with very little side effects.  No water retention and no deca dick for me with NPP.  One of the best cycles i ran was 100mg test prop eod with 100mg npp eod.  Very good lean gains with NPP.  Joints still get to feeling better as well.

If you can get real and real good NPP there is no doubt i would opt for that over regular DECA. Well worth it as far as im concerned.

my 2 cents

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Re: ALL ABOUT DECA AND NPP
« Reply #33 on: December 04, 2011, 06:36:29 AM »
WORD. NPP IT IS.

150MG M-W-F, WITH 100MG TEST C M-W-F.

450MG NPP, 300 TEST. JUST LOADING UP ON THEM OILS. DONT WORRY THE NPP IS FROM A GREAT, GREAT CHEF.
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Re: ALL ABOUT DECA AND NPP
« Reply #34 on: December 04, 2011, 06:46:08 AM »
You will love it my man.  You will see chages in about 2 weeks.  Keep an eye on yourself with the test c that low.  YOu might (Or might not) need to bump the test c to around 500.  Just monitor your libido and your dick.  I love adding NPP to a cycle.

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Re: ALL ABOUT DECA AND NPP
« Reply #35 on: December 04, 2011, 06:49:51 AM »
x2 love NPP!!!
iVe done test/deca and test/npp cycle...and npp shits on deca. Deca makes u look bloofy, watery. Npp gives u that nice round look that deca gives without the water, bloof.  I ran it at 450mg/week

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Re: ALL ABOUT DECA AND NPP
« Reply #36 on: December 04, 2011, 06:52:39 AM »
You will love it my man.  You will see chages in about 2 weeks.  Keep an eye on yourself with the test c that low.  YOu might (Or might not) need to bump the test c to around 500.  Just monitor your libido and your dick.  I love adding NPP to a cycle.

TRYING TO GO LOW TEST, MODERATE-HIGH ANABOLIC. IF SHIT GETS REAL WITH LIBIDO, I GOT PROVIRON.

I DONT NEED MY LIBIDO TO BE LIKE IT IS ON 500. ON 250, JACKING OFF OR HAVING SEX 3-4 TIMES A DAY IS FINE, BUT ON 500MG I SERIOUSLY HAD TO RELIEVE SOME STRESS 6 OR 7 TIMES A DAY.

THANKS FOR THE ADVICE. LOOKING FORWARD TO THIS.
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Re: ALL ABOUT DECA AND NPP
« Reply #37 on: December 04, 2011, 08:53:24 AM »
450 NPP, 300 TEST IT IS.

I TRAIN 6 DAYS A WEEK, WONDER IF I SHOULD DO 75MG NPP, 50MG TNE PRE-WORKOUT ED. OR 150MG NPP, 100MG TEST E ED.


tne hurts, always leaves pip and makes it hard to train since you have to rotate injection spots a lot and then you essentially make every muscle in your body sore from it lol

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Re: ALL ABOUT DECA AND NPP
« Reply #38 on: December 04, 2011, 10:07:58 AM »

tne hurts, always leaves pip and makes it hard to train since you have to rotate injection spots a lot and then you essentially make every muscle in your body sore from it lol

GOT STRANGO TNE. IF THAT SHIT HURTS, THEN ILL JUST GO TEST E OR C.
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Re: ALL ABOUT DECA AND NPP
« Reply #39 on: December 04, 2011, 10:52:34 AM »
receptor sites don't change in how they react to androgens, they merely just upregulate or downregulate. if you run a lot of steroids your androgen receptors in the muscles will upregulate, i believe the same applies to androgen receptors in other parts of the body and they can also downregulate if inactive for long enough. which all it really means is your cells birth more receptor sites or decrease the number of them.  

i don't really know anything about psychological drugs, i don't touch any recreational drugs, lol. the effects of hormones on the brain are temporary, once there's a decrease or increase you'll have changes in mood, behavior or thinking in relation to the change in hormone. but there could be natural genetic changes to the body, like a thyroid tumor and as a result you produce excess thyroid hormone, which has a cascading effect on the rest of the body, such as increased level of somatostatin which signals a decrease in production of growth hormone, on top of the changed thyroid and probably cortisol levels which can greatly effect how a person feels. by and large though, using bodybuilding steroids aren't going to have any side effects that will persist after cessation by themselves (granted you still have endogenous androgens that may continue the effects of what the steroids caused, prime example is hair loss or growth from the bodies test production), but the lifestyle that comes along with steroid abuse would be the more likely culprit to cause long lasting effects to the body.

dont know if your legit or not but you have made some good posts.  I have a question for you that I think you might be a canditate for.

Why is it that, in the presence of high doses of androgens (testosterone,anadrol for example..) alot less muscle growth is scene in most cases, than when anabolics such as deca/eq/primo/dbol/winstrol are used in conjunction with test? I remember reading that in the presence of weight training and supraphysiological doses of testosterone, muscle mass is broken down much quicker,  but a the same time it is built alot more efficiently. when I go on a high dosage of test only cycles, I do grow on it, but the growth happens slowly..workout to workout the changes are slow but happen. Anyone who has done a fair share of test only cycle and has a fair share of experience with test  in varying doses can vouche that you blow up quick as in that "thick look" you get  at first... but as far as actual tissue growth you do not grow as fast as without the addition of that anabolic.  

The moment I add in an anabolic,even a low dosage of dbol for example.. I start gaining lean tissue like crazy, but upping the test just does not do this for me. I can honestly say that I gain more muscle on 600mg test and a low dose of dbol than a higher dose of test and 150mg anadrol a day...as we know anadrol is highly androgenic and nowhere near as anabolic as dbol.

"Androgens are very powerful stimulators of the muscle protein synthesis rate. On the other hand, the muscle gains provided by androgens do not match this elevation in synthesis. steroids promote anabolism to a much higher rate than they make our muscles grow.

The reason for this discrepancy is that they also stimulate protein degradation. I know many people think they are anti-catabolic, but it is not the case. Anabolics stimulate protein turnover. This means they increase both synthesis and degradation of proteins. They are simply more effective at stimulating synthesis than degradation, which is why they make our muscles grow but not at a super fast rate. Look at how long it takes to grow huge muscles. If androgens were stimulating synthesis while inhibiting degradation, one would grow very, very quickly
. What is important to understand is that past a certain dose, anabolics will provide their own antidote against muscle growth. The only solution (beside using less steroids) is to increase insulinase level."

Granted, the article was on insulin in combination with anabolic steroids but could the antidote the author talks about be related to very high doses of androgens? It makes sense to me, lots of guys here have said they were at their biggest on mega doses of anabolics and low androgens,  gh15  was at his biggest on lots of npp and eq,BLP told me the same ,bulsemo said this as well, no one also menioned throwing in somes anavar blows him up faster than upping the test dosage. Asked Disgusted too, he said 750mg is the max one  should use with test by itself for muscle gains.

l

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Re: ALL ABOUT DECA AND NPP
« Reply #40 on: December 04, 2011, 10:58:05 AM »
if it's a good cook then it shouldn't hurt too bad, but the best way to make painless tne is with solvents that a lot of people have allergies to so a lot of sources won't use those solvents and it causes the tne to crash after injection because the body absorbs the ba and bb faster than the hormone making it turn back into crystallized solid that'll cut up your muscle fibers.  

best way to pin tne is in the muscle you're going to workout on that day. that way it will spread the oil around more evenly and also because it takes about half a day for the hormone to start crashing so you can workout before the pip sets in without doing any damage to your muscle fibers.  

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Re: ALL ABOUT DECA AND NPP
« Reply #41 on: December 04, 2011, 11:07:13 AM »
dont know if your legit or not but you have made some good posts.  I have a question for you that I think you might be a canditate for.

Why is it that, in the presence of high doses of androgens (testosterone,anadrol for example..) alot less muscle growth is scene in most cases, than when anabolics such as deca/eq/primo/dbol/winstrol are used in conjunction with test? I remember reading that in the presence of weight training and supraphysiological doses of testosterone, muscle mass is broken down much quicker,  but a the same time it is built alot more efficiently. when I go on a high dosage of test only cycles, I do grow on it, but the growth happens slowly..workout to workout the changes are slow but happen. Anyone who has done a fair share of test only cycle and has a fair share of experience with test  in varying doses can vouche that you blow up quick as in that "thick look" you get  at first... but as far as actual tissue growth you do not grow as fast as without the addition of that anabolic.  

The moment I add in an anabolic,even a low dosage of dbol for example.. I start gaining lean tissue like crazy, but upping the test just does not do this for me. I can honestly say that I gain more muscle on 600mg test and a low dose of dbol than a higher dose of test and 150mg anadrol a day...as we know anadrol is highly androgenic and nowhere near as anabolic as dbol.

"Androgens are very powerful stimulators of the muscle protein synthesis rate. On the other hand, the muscle gains provided by androgens do not match this elevation in synthesis. steroids promote anabolism to a much higher rate than they make our muscles grow.

The reason for this discrepancy is that they also stimulate protein degradation. I know many people think they are anti-catabolic, but it is not the case. Anabolics stimulate protein turnover. This means they increase both synthesis and degradation of proteins. They are simply more effective at stimulating synthesis than degradation, which is why they make our muscles grow but not at a super fast rate. Look at how long it takes to grow huge muscles. If androgens were stimulating synthesis while inhibiting degradation, one would grow very, very quickly
. What is important to understand is that past a certain dose, anabolics will provide their own antidote against muscle growth. The only solution (beside using less steroids) is to increase insulinase level."

Granted, the article was on insulin in combination with anabolic steroids but could the antidote the author talks about be related to very high doses of androgens? It makes sense to me, lots of guys here have said they were at their biggest on mega doses of anabolics and low androgens,  gh15  was at his biggest on lots of npp and eq,BLP told me the same ,bulsemo said this as well, no one also menioned throwing in somes anavar blows him up faster than upping the test dosage. Asked Disgusted too, he said 750mg is the max one  should use with test by itself for muscle gains.



i don't know the rates of protein turnover for various steroids but i do know test increases turnover by a large margin. thing is, t3 also increases protein turnover and everyone thinks of it as a catabolic, but it actually can be an anabolic when used in combination with steroids that increase nitrogen retention (protein levels in your blood). test increases nitrogen retention and causes intercellular water retention, which isn't exactly real muscle growth but will increase strength and so it is a pretty decent mass builder but, i've seen studies that compared various steroids, all of the popular ones, and for actual increases in muscle fiber diameter, test was the absolute lowest out of all of them.

test works great for some people but i don't think it's that great of a steroid in general, just makes people bloofy and a lot of people think because their arms grew 2 inches with no definition that they grew a ton of muscle. it's benefit to side effect ratio is too low compared to other, better drugs.

have you tried deca before? it's extremely anabolic and has great synergy with d-bol, you'll probably grow like a weed if you do well off of high anabolics and also deca barely has any effect on your hair which i think you were concerned about.  

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Re: ALL ABOUT DECA AND NPP
« Reply #42 on: December 04, 2011, 11:26:16 AM »
also i just want to say that quote is right: insulin is very anti-catabolic and prevents muscle breakdown, infact so is hgh (hgh without insulin is just an anti-catabolic btw), which is why insulin and hgh have such a huge synergy with steroids as it negates muscle catabolism, which in turn increases overall muscular growth.

protein turnover = protein degradation - protein synthesis, so if you keep protein synthesis the same, or even lower it (as tren does) but drastically reduce protein degradation then you have overall protein accretion, or muscle growth. insulin and hgh will lower protein degradation themselves and can counteract the protein degradation of things like t3, but when you combine both insulin and hgh together they are actually anabolic in their own right, increasing myofibril size (muscle fiber) by increasing satellite cell proliferation, WHICH IS VERY IMPORTANT, because muscle cells do not undergo mitosis, once you are born you are set with a certain number of muscle cells and the only way for them to grow is by satellite cells binding to them to induce hypertrophy or very rarely cause hyperplasia (create new muscle cells). hgh also lowers myostatin levels, which is a very potent anti-anabolic in the body. all of these things is why, absolutely, hgh is a necessity to get past your genetic aas max, as steroids alone will not cause enough anabolism to do it.

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Re: ALL ABOUT DECA AND NPP
« Reply #43 on: December 04, 2011, 12:01:17 PM »
if it's a good cook then it shouldn't hurt too bad, but the best way to make painless tne is with solvents that a lot of people have allergies to so a lot of sources won't use those solvents and it causes the tne to crash after injection because the body absorbs the ba and bb faster than the hormone making it turn back into crystallized solid that'll cut up your muscle fibers.  

best way to pin tne is in the muscle you're going to workout on that day. that way it will spread the oil around more evenly and also because it takes about half a day for the hormone to start crashing so you can workout before the pip sets in without doing any damage to your muscle fibers.  

IM PINNING HALF IN RIGHT BI OR TRI, OTHER IN LEFT BI OR TRI. THN GONNA GO WORKOUT, EITHER MY TRI OR BI AND OBVIOUSLY OTHER BODYPARTS.
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Re: ALL ABOUT DECA AND NPP
« Reply #44 on: December 04, 2011, 12:19:51 PM »
IM PINNING HALF IN RIGHT BI OR TRI, OTHER IN LEFT BI OR TRI. THN GONNA GO WORKOUT, EITHER MY TRI OR BI AND OBVIOUSLY OTHER BODYPARTS.

hell yeah  8)

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Re: ALL ABOUT DECA AND NPP
« Reply #45 on: December 04, 2011, 12:50:37 PM »
IM PINNING HALF IN RIGHT BI OR TRI, OTHER IN LEFT BI OR TRI. THN GONNA GO WORKOUT, EITHER MY TRI OR BI AND OBVIOUSLY OTHER BODYPARTS.

Up the test e eq and gh with the tne and get 19-20s if u got good arm genetics lol

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Re: ALL ABOUT DECA AND NPP
« Reply #46 on: December 04, 2011, 12:53:38 PM »
Up the test e eq and gh with the tne and get 19-20s if u got good arm genetics lol

LOLOLOL HORRIBLE ARM GENETICS HERE, SHOULDER, BACK ....YES. IM WIDE AND THIN, I LACK THICKNESS.


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Re: ALL ABOUT DECA AND NPP
« Reply #47 on: December 04, 2011, 01:29:52 PM »
start low and work your way up untill/if you find a dose you like. fuck this "asking for advice" bullshit.

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Re: ALL ABOUT DECA AND NPP
« Reply #48 on: December 04, 2011, 01:36:18 PM »
start low and work your way up untill/if you find a dose you like. fuck this "asking for advice" bullshit.

yeah, i agree with this. there isn't one type of steroid and dosage that will work for everyone and give the exact results because everyone is different and gets different sides. you just gotta experiment.

also, deadlifts, and heavy rows (t-bar, heavy dumbbell rows) all add thickness to your back. for the front, do wide grip bench and incline flyes, builds up the pec-delt-shoulder tie-in and will make you look thicker when people look at you from the front. i never target upper traps directly, i hit them harder than my delts when i do lateral raises, so i don't feel the need to do shrugs since smaller traps makes you look wider.

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Re: ALL ABOUT DECA AND NPP
« Reply #49 on: December 04, 2011, 01:47:38 PM »
laying off your traps can allow you to recruit more shoulders making you wider in the long run but big traps dont make you look narrow. id suggest learning how to do lateral raises properly instead of living with undersized traps. without big traps you lose a big portion of the "muscular look", they add a ton of the powerfullness and animalesque appearance.