Author Topic: Michael Jackson  (Read 3070 times)

Irongrip400

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Michael Jackson
« on: December 07, 2011, 04:54:06 PM »
I recently came back from a trip to Europe.  While in Germany, I noticed a statue of a person, but it was decorated with Michael Jackson pictures and candles, etc.  Anyway, it had some poster on it, with a conspiracy theory about how he was set up by Sony on the child molestation thing, and they killed him to get the rights to his music catalog.  While in a bar, thriller came on, and some guy starts talking to me and my wife about how great michael is.  My question, to the international posters here, is that, is Michael Jackson still looked upon so greatly?  I mean, in America, the dude was seen as a pedophile.  What gives? ???

devilsmile

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Re: Michael Jackson
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2011, 04:57:00 PM »
Oh god... so you heard about a conspiracy, did you .

 some people are still new to the internet.



etc.

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Re: Michael Jackson
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2011, 04:57:25 PM »
How Obama's Embrace Turned Teddy Roosevelt Into a Socialist
John Nichols on December 7, 2011 - 10:24am ET

What was Fox News to do when Barack Obama went to Kansas and delivered a speech that echoed the “New Nationalism” address Teddy Roosevelt used to renew and redefine his political prospects? Obama’s oratory was not quite as radical as that of the former Republican president, but it was close enough is spirit and content to create concerns on the part of Fox commentators that the current president might be tapping into the rich vein of American progressive populism that actually moves the masses.

So the network of economic royalism did the only thing it could.

Fox broke away from Tuesday’s speech right at the point where Obama was most closely following TR’s line, with references to how the former president had declared: “Our country…means nothing unless it means the triumph of a real democracy…of an economic system under which each man shall be guaranteed the opportunity to show the best that there is in him.” And the recognition by Obama that “today, we are a richer nation and a stronger democracy because of what [Roosevelt] fought for in his last campaign: an eight-hour work day and a minimum wage for women, insurance for the unemployed and for the elderly, and those with disabilities; political reform and a progressive income tax.”

Obama had the quote right. And he had the history right.

What was Fox to do?

No problem. They dismissed Teddy Roosevelt as a socialist.

Once the details of Obama’s speech—one of the most effective and well-received of his presidency—were made available, Fox News political editor Chris Stirewelt explained: “What Teddy Roosevelt was calling for was a sort of a socialistic nationalism, in which the government would take things away from people who got things that he didn’t think they should have [and] give it to the working man. They talk about ‘the square deal,’ ‘fairness,’ all of these new mandates for government—something the Republican Party has walked away from in very decided fashion certainly since the Reagan era in terms of what the role and purpose of government is. This is Obama embracing a Republican icon of a bygone era.”

Fox host Megyn Kelly picked up on the theme: “Teddy Roosevelt was calling for something akin to a socialist nationalism. Why would President Obama want to do anything that would associate himself with that word ‘socialist’ which has been used against him by so many of the Republican presidential candidates, among others.”

Yes, Stirewelt responded, “I think the biggest thing [Obama] is trying to do is shame the Republicans. He’s trying to say: ‘Look, one of your own, a great hero of yours that’s on Mount Rushmore, he was a socialist. He called for this sort of socialist nationalism. Why are you people not being like him? Why are you not following in his footsteps?’ ”

“Obviously,” continued Stirewelt, “this is not an unalloyed good thing for the president to line up with this sort of progressivism, and this sort of liberalism and socialism that has become so much maligned and so much disliked in the modern American political discourse.”

On Fox Business News, the discussion turned to a claim that “we’re seeing the return of socialism combined with nationalsm.”

Wow.

So Roosevelt was socialistic, and Obama is adopting “socialist nationalism” by borrowing a page from the Republican commander-in-chief whom the most recent Republican presidential nominee, John McCain, hailed as his hero—as have Republican nominees in every election since the former president’s passing in 1920.

The notion that the Republican Roosevelt was a socialist would have come as news to the old Rough Rider—and to the socialist stalwarts of his time.

When Roosevelt ran for the presidency in 1904 (as a Republican incumbent) and again in 1912 (as the leader of the renegade Republicans who formed the Progressive “Bull Moose” Party), he faced determined opposition from Socialist Party nominees. Indeed, the 1912 campaign saw Eugene Victor Debs win the highest portion of the vote ever accorded to a Socialist candidate: 6 percent.

Roosevelt, in his “New Nationalism” speech at  Osawatomie, Kansas, did outline an agenda that supported the establishment of programs like Social Security and Medicare, protections against discrimination, union rights and expanded democracy. In effect, he was arguing for what, under his fifth cousin, Franklin, would come to be known as “the New Deal.”

Some of those proposals were promoted by the Socialist Party in the early years of the twentieth century, which certainly made arguments in its platforms for safety-net programs. But so, too, did moderate Republicans and Democrats. After the “Gilded Age” of robber barons and corporate monopolies, there was mainstream support for tempering the excesses of laissez faire capitalism. They weren’t proposing socialism in any form that Karl Marx might recognize but they were arguing for fairness and responsibility.

“We grudge no man a fortune in civil life if it is honorably obtained and well used,” Roosevelt said in 1910. However, recalling the language of the first Republican president, Abraham Lincoln, Roosevelt added, “It is not even enough that it should have gained without doing damage to the community. We should permit it to be gained only so long as the gaining represents benefit to the community.”

That’s hardly a radical notion. It simply says that the accumulation of great wealth ought not come at the expense of society. Or, as Obama explained in Osawatomie, “Now, just as there was in Teddy Roosevelt’s time, there’s been a certain crowd in Washington for the last few decades who respond to this economic challenge with the same old tune. “The market will take care of everything,” they tell us. If only we cut more regulations and cut more taxes—especially for the wealthy—our economy will grow stronger. Sure, there will be winners and losers. But if the winners do really well, jobs and prosperity will eventually trickle down to everyone else. And even if prosperity doesn’t trickle down, they argue, that’s the price of liberty. It’s a simple theory—one that speaks to our rugged individualism and healthy skepticism of too much government. It fits well on a bumper sticker. Here’s the problem: it doesn’t work. It’s never worked.”

This is not some grand redistributionist scheme. It is economic realism. It is the vision of responsible wealth that was broadly accepted by Main Street Republicans until the advocates for a new Gilded Age bought themselves a Tea Party movement.

Roosevelt spoke for Main Street when he said 111 years ago: “The essence of any struggle for healthy liberty has always been, and must always be, to take from some one man or class of men the right to enjoy power, or wealth, or position, or immunity, which has not been earned by service to his or their fellows. That is what you fought for in the Civil War, and that is what we strive for now.”

Barack Obama is echoing that line, speaking a bit more softly and carrying a bit less of a big stick than Teddy Roosevelt. He is coming down on the side of the same basic premise that TR reached in Osawatomie: fairness.

Of course, according to Fox News, fairness is “something the Republican Party has walked away from…”

seCrawler

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Re: Michael Jackson
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2011, 04:58:29 PM »
I still like him, would say his most mature song in his catalog.


King Shizzo

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Re: Michael Jackson
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2011, 04:59:07 PM »
I recently came back from a trip to Europe.  While in Germany, I noticed a statue of a person, but it was decorated with Michael Jackson pictures and candles, etc.  Anyway, it had some poster on it, with a conspiracy theory about how he was set up by Sony on the child molestation thing, and they killed him to get the rights to his music catalog.  While in a bar, thriller came on, and some guy starts talking to me and my wife about how great michael is.  My question, to the international posters here, is that, is Michael Jackson still looked upon so greatly?  I mean, in America, the dude was seen as a pedophile.  What gives? ???
I live in America, and I think MJ was/is an icon like Elvis.  Bottom Line: They never proved shit.  Was he weird? Hell yeah, but he did have a fucked up childhood , and was abused by his father.  If it ever does come out that he molested kids, then i will change my opinion.  Look at Jerry Sandusky.  There have already been multiple kids to come forward and accuse him.  Jackson had Two right?  Could easily been a money grab by the parents, especially after he paid the first kid off.

devilsmile

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Re: Michael Jackson
« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2011, 05:01:22 PM »

Irongrip400

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Re: Michael Jackson
« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2011, 05:03:42 PM »
I live in America, and I think MJ was/is an icon like Elvis.  Bottom Line: They never proved shit.  Was he weird? Hell yeah, but he did have a fucked up childhood , and was abused by his father.  If it ever does come out that he molested kids, then i will change my opinion.  Look at Jerry Sandusky.  There have already been multiple kids to come forward and accuse him.  Jackson had Two right?  Could easily been a money grab by the parents, especially after he paid the first kid off.

No, I understand all that, I don't know what he did either, but it was wierd whatever it was.  Kinda like the scene in Pulp Fiction, where he compares a foot massage to bangin Marceles Wallace's wife.  IT's not the same, but you know it's wrong.  Either way, the point was more to assess why he is more beloved over seas(if at all) and why.

The Ugly

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Re: Michael Jackson
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2011, 05:08:05 PM »
especially after he paid the first kid off.

It was like 15 million. Why do this if your innocent?

Come on, dude.

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Re: Michael Jackson
« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2011, 05:14:05 PM »

People in Egypt were Huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu ge fans of him!

King Shizzo

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Re: Michael Jackson
« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2011, 05:17:28 PM »
It was like 15 million. Why do this if your innocent?

Come on, dude.
The dude thought he was peter pan for crying out loud.  In his fantasy land sleeping with kids was innocent to him.  When you have Michael Jackson money, you don't care how much you pay for anything.

The Ugly

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Re: Michael Jackson
« Reply #10 on: December 07, 2011, 05:20:24 PM »
When you have Michael Jackson money, you don't care how much you pay for anything.

We agree, he paid for it.

King Shizzo

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Re: Michael Jackson
« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2011, 05:22:29 PM »
I agree he was a rapist.  He has been raping my ears with good music since I was a kid.

Mr Nobody

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Re: Michael Jackson
« Reply #12 on: December 07, 2011, 05:36:41 PM »
 8)

GoneAway

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Re: Michael Jackson
« Reply #13 on: December 07, 2011, 11:44:55 PM »
It was like 15 million. Why do this if your innocent?

Why did Michael also give over a hundred million dollars in concert earnings alone, to help sick children? He had no childhood and sincerely felt their pain. That was real... Michael was advised poorly in financials. The biggest star in the world was given all of the wrong "advices" and ended up over $300 million in debt. Things like that don't just happen... they are constructed. An average, middle-class Joe handles their finances better than the biggest star in the world. The reason he went bankrupt is because Sony - yep, his record label who bought out his previous label Epic in 1987 - wanted to make him so starved of cash that he's have to sell off the ATV catalogue (purchashed in 1985) for loans. The same catalogue which they now own 50% of and generates upto about a hundred million per year for them. You'd want it to.

It's a long story... not just about the catalogue, there are many factors. Anyone who reaches Michael Jackson, Elvis, Lennon, etc level of fame usually always has motives for getting them out of the picture... and it's always made to look like a convenient accident or a rogue gunman. Ever heard of JFK?

seCrawler

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Re: Michael Jackson
« Reply #14 on: December 08, 2011, 01:23:38 AM »
Why did Michael also give over a hundred million dollars in concert earnings alone, to help sick children? He had no childhood and sincerely felt their pain. That was real... Michael was advised poorly in financials. The biggest star in the world was given all of the wrong "advices" and ended up over $300 million in debt. Things like that don't just happen... they are constructed. An average, middle-class Joe handles their finances better than the biggest star in the world. The reason he went bankrupt is because Sony - yep, his record label who bought out his previous label Epic in 1987 - wanted to make him so starved of cash that he's have to sell off the ATV catalogue (purchashed in 1985) for loans. The same catalogue which they now own 50% of and generates upto about a hundred million per year for them. You'd want it to.

It's a long story... not just about the catalogue, there are many factors. Anyone who reaches Michael Jackson, Elvis, Lennon, etc level of fame usually always has motives for getting them out of the picture... and it's always made to look like a convenient accident or a rogue gunman. Ever heard of JFK?

I do think that record company bumping him off is a bit far fetched, but agree they wanted control of his catalog, and wanted him to sell off  his controlling interest in the Beatles' catalog.  Those two alone generate over $200M in revenues, so how in the world could he be that broke unless he is given loans, which exceed the revenues of the catalogs.  That Prince fellow got ripped off by Warner Bros, as far as his catalog is concerned.  

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Re: Michael Jackson
« Reply #15 on: December 08, 2011, 02:06:08 AM »
I do think that record company bumping him off is a bit far fetched, but agree they wanted control of his catalog, and wanted him to sell off  his controlling interest in the Beatles' catalog.  Those two alone generate over $200M in revenues, so how in the world could he be that broke unless he is given loans, which exceed the revenues of the catalogs.  That Prince fellow got ripped off by Warner Bros, as far as his catalog is concerned.  

How naive of you.

Motive, motive, motive.
Just follow the money.

I spose JFK just drove into that bullet  ??? some guys (x3) were out hunting, & all just fired in that direction at the same time.
No conspiracy, just astronomical odds that came on top  ::)

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oldman

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Re: Michael Jackson
« Reply #16 on: December 08, 2011, 03:52:19 AM »
why dont you ask his family why they just stood around and let it all happen...hoping they would cash in on their brother...

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Re: Michael Jackson
« Reply #17 on: December 08, 2011, 04:17:12 AM »
People love Michael. You can confuse the mind with dirt but not the heart.
.

Irongrip400

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Re: Michael Jackson
« Reply #18 on: December 08, 2011, 05:52:44 AM »
Why did Michael also give over a hundred million dollars in concert earnings alone, to help sick children? He had no childhood and sincerely felt their pain. That was real... Michael was advised poorly in financials. The biggest star in the world was given all of the wrong "advices" and ended up over $300 million in debt. Things like that don't just happen... they are constructed. An average, middle-class Joe handles their finances better than the biggest star in the world. The reason he went bankrupt is because Sony - yep, his record label who bought out his previous label Epic in 1987 - wanted to make him so starved of cash that he's have to sell off the ATV catalogue (purchashed in 1985) for loans. The same catalogue which they now own 50% of and generates upto about a hundred million per year for them. You'd want it to.

It's a long story... not just about the catalogue, there are many factors. Anyone who reaches Michael Jackson, Elvis, Lennon, etc level of fame usually always has motives for getting them out of the picture... and it's always made to look like a convenient accident or a rogue gunman. Ever heard of JFK?

This is essentially what was written on the statue, but it said they have made close to a billion off of his death. Are you a foreighner?  I only ask becasue you seem to buy into the same conspiracy.