if you all agree I'm maxed out naturally, does that mean this guy is not natty?

[wes]

Spot on with that post man.

Thanks bud.   

[PhysiqueNatural]

Thanks bud.   

You know your shit man, if someone listens to your advice they would actually improve.

[wes]

You know your shit man, if someone listens to your advice they would actually improve.

Thanks dude,I try. 

[PhysiqueNatural]

I think PN can give PNS really good tips !

If he would ask no problem but the main thing is the dude is very negative and is comparing himself to other athletes, just do your thing what comes out of it comes its still your hard work.

[wes]

If he would ask no problem but the main thing is the dude is very negative and is comparing himself to other athletes, just do your thing what comes out of it comes its still your hard work.

Very true.

[purenaturalstrength]

So are you saying that a natural needs higher frequency and lower volume?

yes the bodypart splits only came along when the drugs did

elite fitness forums explained this to me

[wes]

yes the bodypart splits only came along when the drugs did

elite fitness forums explained this to me

LOL   

[dj181]

yes the bodypart splits only came along when the drugs did

elite fitness forums explained this to me

You're a prime example of what AJ used to say, and that was that the legs respond fastest to regular training. He said it was because no other exercise approaches squats as far as "intensity of effort" is concerned, and that's why the legs had the fastest response. Do you agree with this statement? Also, does anybody you know follow very abbreviated training (ie. Mentzer's consolidated routine)? And if so, are they making progress on it?

[purenaturalstrength]

You're a prime example of what AJ used to say, and that was that the legs respond fastest to regular training. He said it was because no other exercise approaches squats as far as "intensity of effort" is concerned, and that's why the legs had the fastest response. Do you agree with this statement? Also, does anybody you know follow very abbreviated training (ie. Mentzer's consolidated routine)? And if so, are they making progress on it?

Well I tried bodypart splits for nearly a year and all what happened was a lot of soreness but not a lot of over compensation, in fact my strength regressed and I did not see "hypertrophy" or whatever


I can't find the topic but a couple of very knowledgeable guys on elitefitness agreed on something like this

*bodypart splits use a ton of volume about once a week on every muscle group, this is flawed for the natural because
-the volume will require too much off the body's limited recovery ability, this way chances of overcompensation being achieved are slim if at all

-the frequency is too low, there is too much time in between training the same muscles, this way the overcompensation, if it worked at all will have disappeared again and your strength will be lower again so you are going back and forth at best (in many cases like mine you will actually go backwards)

*the reason this approach of "destroy every muscle into jiggly shit every week" is because of the drugs

this is what they said


these same guys also thought mike mentzer was some sort of scam artist, because the training he used in his day was very similar to HST

while his ideas sound great in theory I have never seen or heard a legitimate success story


and about the "intensity of effort" thing, I do think that with squats, assuming your volume and frequency is at an optimal level, progress proportionally to the effort you put in the training, which can be quite grueling, because a muscle that large requires you to activate a lot more motor units than curls so you really need to isolate your mind from outside distractions and muster all the aggression you can get to go to the maximum effort level

I have not really tried abreviated training but I have read about it in Stuart McRoberts book, problem with his book (beyond brawn) is I found it so repetitive and didnt get much practical directions from it


that's why i went the "5x5" route with glenn pendley/mark rippetoe influenced programs (bill starr influenced)

[dj181]

Well I tried bodypart splits for nearly a year and all what happened was a lot of soreness but not a lot of over compensation, in fact my strength regressed and I did not see "hypertrophy" or whatever


I can't find the topic but a couple of very knowledgeable guys on elitefitness agreed on something like this

*bodypart splits use a ton of volume about once a week on every muscle group, this is flawed for the natural because
-the volume will require too much off the body's limited recovery ability, this way chances of overcompensation being achieved are slim if at all

-the frequency is too low, there is too much time in between training the same muscles, this way the overcompensation, if it worked at all will have disappeared again and your strength will be lower again so you are going back and forth at best (in many cases like mine you will actually go backwards)

*the reason this approach of "destroy every muscle into jiggly shit every week" is because of the drugs

this is what they said


these same guys also thought mike mentzer was some sort of scam artist, because the training he used in his day was very similar to HST

while his ideas sound great in theory I have never seen or heard a legitimate success story


and about the "intensity of effort" thing, I do think that with squats, assuming your volume and frequency is at an optimal level, progress proportionally to the effort you put in the training, which can be quite grueling, because a muscle that large requires you to activate a lot more motor units than curls so you really need to isolate your mind from outside distractions and muster all the aggression you can get to go to the maximum effort level

I have not really tried abreviated training but I have read about it in Stuart McRoberts book, problem with his book (beyond brawn) is I found it so repetitive and didnt get much practical directions from it


that's why i went the "5x5" route with glenn pendley/mark rippetoe influenced programs (bill starr influenced)

Thanks for the detailed answer man. Back in AJ's early writing he said that muscle de-compensation starts to occur after 96 hours of no training. What do you think about that statement?

[purenaturalstrength]

Thanks for the detailed answer man. Back in AJ's early writing he said that muscle de-compensation starts to occur after 96 hours of no training. What do you think about that statement?

well i do think your strength gain will indeed disappear again if you train on monday you would need to train that exercise definitely again by fridayn that's why all those 5x5 programs do squats, benches and rows on monday and friday. they will do forexample 5x5 squats on monday, 1x5 squat on friday and the other way round with bench press

Like I said I tried the whole "leg day", "chest day" and all you are doing is wasting your recovery ability for nothing, because your revocery period will be longer than the overcompensation time frame


arthur dreshler, author of the the weightlifting encyclopedia make a brilliant point about this


he said something like

"think about weightlifting like adaptation in general, for example the way you develop caluses on the hands...when you work in the garden once in a while you will not get calluses, when you work too much all of the sudden you will get blisters and by the time the blister healed the callus inducing effect will be gone and the hand will be soft again. it is only when you work just enough and with the right frequency that you will see a steady callus build up. this is the same way with everything in adaptation, training effect and recovery is similar"

(same with tanning, sun burn, etc etc)

[purenaturalstrength]

I have big feet I don't want them to be bigger it looks like clown feet

[WillGrant]

You make posts like a clown

[wes]

TERRIBLE GIMMICK
 

[WillGrant]

Ungaying thread

[wes]

Thank you Will. 

[WillGrant]

Thank you Will. 

[purenaturalstrength]

Ungaying thread

subpar glute-ham tie in and no ham development whatsoever


the illusion of roundness is just created by excessive lordosis

superior:

[purenaturalstrength]

it's a legitimate question, why not address it properly

[wes]

it's a legitimate question, why not address it properly

[Swlabr]

[Tito24]

will is a great poster , hell be the next one on the payroll of ron avidan.

[purenaturalstrength]

will i still have some training effect tho?

[Swlabr]

Only if you're on hormones. If not, no, your body is in a catabolic state, say goodbye to your gains.

[purenaturalstrength]

Only if you're on hormones. If not, no, your body is in a catabolic state, say goodbye to your gains.

ah fuck