Slin protocol

[matrixgh]

I am planing to go to the next level adding slin to my current cycle, Iam running 10iu/ed gh 5iu am/pm, seance I have never been introduced to slin so I need professional advice and most effective way . How? when? and dosage. I know gh15 don't like to talk about slin usage so I need help from you guys .

[SmoofCat]

I am planing to go to the next level adding slin to my current cycle, Iam running 10iu/ed gh 5iu am/pm, seance I have never been introduced to slin so I need professional advice and most effective way . How? when? and dosage. I know gh15 don't like to talk about slin usage so I need help from you guys .

what do you have on your hands, I mean what product do you have and what ar your goals. Let me know these things before I can help you. Also, what brand of gh are you running? Just curious. And how big are you currently and your height? Just trying to gauge how much slin I would recommend.

[aesthetics]

i'm about to step out at the moment so i'll just post my own protocol rather than explaining things but this is what i do:

1hr-90m before lifting i'll eat a really solid and full meal, usually oats for carbs because i love oats and don't have any GI issues with them. plus a chicken breast, ground round, or whatever, for ~50grams of protein.

30m pre workout ill pin 5iu of novorapid IM

usually have a shake mixed and kept in the fridge for awhile (since the aminos don't like to dissolve quickly): ~50grams karbolyn, ~35 grams of protein (20gr glutamine, 12gr leucine)

right before i step out the door i'll grab a few scoops of glutamine, leucine, alanine, glycine, citrine mallet, beta alanine and 2gr of creatine. this combined with the insulin gives me some pretty crazy fullness, pumps and recovery time but it tastes like absolute dogshit and you need to add something to flavor it in order to wash it down (grapefruit juice works well to dissolve it and mask the flavor).

i'll sip on the shake i mixed up that was sitting in the fridge throughout the workout, but i really never feel like i need the glucose, provided i had eaten beforehand, i never felt like i'll go hypo from only 5iu slin.

postworkout i just eat whatever, and pin ~5iu of GH IM, depending on how saucy i'm feeling, sometimes more.

[makaveli25]

Sounds like a pain in the ass having to drink 2-3 shakes and then sip one during the workout. My workouts are intense if I drank all that and then continued to sip on a nasty tasting shake I would throw up 5 minutes into my workout. Not sure how some of you do it.

[flinstones1]

Sounds like a pain in the ass having to drink 2-3 shakes and then sip one during the workout. My workouts are intense if I drank all that and then continued to sip on a nasty tasting shake I would throw up 5 minutes into my workout. Not sure how some of you do it.

it is a pain in the ass. I have used bottles of  that humulin-R from walmart, and I think it's worthless.  Slin is shit and makes you look like shit.

[chess315]

i'm about to step out at the moment so i'll just post my own protocol rather than explaining things but this is what i do:

1hr-90m before lifting i'll eat a really solid and full meal, usually oats for carbs because i love oats and don't have any GI issues with them. plus a chicken breast, ground round, or whatever, for ~50grams of protein.

30m pre workout ill pin 5iu of novorapid IM

usually have a shake mixed and kept in the fridge for awhile (since the aminos don't like to dissolve quickly): ~50grams karbolyn, ~35 grams of protein (20gr glutamine, 12gr leucine)

right before i step out the door i'll grab a few scoops of glutamine, leucine, alanine, glycine, citrine mallet, beta alanine and 2gr of creatine. this combined with the insulin gives me some pretty crazy fullness, pumps and recovery time but it tastes like absolute dogshit and you need to add something to flavor it in order to wash it down (grapefruit juice works well to dissolve it and mask the flavor).

i'll sip on the shake i mixed up that was sitting in the fridge throughout the workout, but i really never feel like i need the glucose, provided i had eaten beforehand, i never felt like i'll go hypo from only 5iu slin.

postworkout i just eat whatever, and pin ~5iu of GH IM, depending on how saucy i'm feeling, sometimes more.

so you feel 5ius of gh is enough to illicit decent gains ? for the average gym rat not trying to compete? I'm about to break down and get me some for the first time and i think ill run 5 or so

[aesthetics]

so you feel 5ius of gh is enough to illicit decent gains ? for the average gym rat not trying to compete? I'm about to break down and get me some for the first time and i think ill run 5 or so

definitely a sufficient dosage post workout, however, if you meant for the entire day then in my opinion GH is simply one of those things where a little bit goes a long way but adding more will yield better results. i don't know what your goals are (beach body, pro-level, fitness model, et cetera) but GH used concurrently with a tiny bit of insulin (keyword: tiny!) will definitely get you there quicker and looking better but it's not an absolute necessity unless you are trying for the pros - remember: all the great 1970s physiques were built solely on d-bol, deca and tren.  

if you are asking if i only use 5iu a day: no. i use more than that, lol. the constraint on GH usage for me is the same as most others here, it's an issue of cost and affordability. also my personal, real life, has been pretty hectic and i would feel as though it would be a waste to mega dose GH consistently since i'm barely even training anymore.

[Rearden Metal]

Define "tiny" use of insulin w gh. I'm using 10iu humulog in the AM and PW & was under the impression this was not an entirely aggressive use.

[aesthetics]

10iu or less in 1 injection would be ideal, but not necessarily tiny, since i don't think there's any real benefit gained by using more than 10iu at one time and it becomes counterproductive in certain ways when using too much in a given time frame.

imo, slin should be used in relation to how many carbs someone eats, not the otherway around like how it's used, or abused, by many of the pros. best approach is to use it sparingly since the more insulin that is used the more carbs are needed as a consequence which quickly adds up and people start eating 600-700g carbs a day easily and how they get turtle abs at 4% bodyfat. so really the purpose of keeping insulin usage on the moderate end is to curtail massive carb loads since that's going to be the thing that ruins people's physiques, not the insulin that by itself isn't inherently the culprit but merely the catalyst that drives people to overconsume carbohydrates that the body cannot process and then turns into visceral fat around internal organs.

the distended stomachs are reversible though, as long as the obliques don't get hypertrophied you can revert your stomach back down in size with a keto diet or with dnp since it's just visceral fat accumulation that can be burned off.  

[aesthetics]

while typing that up i remembered the dante diet or more specifically his advice on bodybuilding which is to only take 1 gram of testosterone maximum but eat like 7,000 calories a day. for some reason the logic is that this is healthier, eating enough calories to create silly puddy levels of cholesterol globules in your arteries, because apparently admitting that bodybuilding is mostly all drugs is still taboo even for the people who openly admit to using the drugs in the first place so then another bullshit pretext has to be created for exactly how bodybuilders get so big if it's not the drugs.

obviously, it's not the drugs but the hard work and massive calories that create pro-bodybuilders, and while 1gram of test is perfectly moral usage of steroids, once the dosage reaches 1.1grams it's a completely immoral act and shouldn't be talked about. stupid ass shit

[Rearden Metal]

Lol. I can't even be bothered to follow Dante's bullshit. I'm not tearing another muscle trying to outlift my abilities, I sure as hell am not eating 7000 kcals daily or rinsing any fucking meat.

[matrixgh]

ok so from my understanding you take 5iu pre workout and gh pow, so my question is how will you calculate how many iu slin you need for gh? and how many carbs you need to for each iu? also do you think is good idea take pow slin with gh?

[aesthetics]

10g carbs per 1iu humolog/novarapid is pretty standard, you can get away with 5g of carbs per iu of humulin-r since it's slower acting and gives a smaller spike in blood insulin levels. that's the standard metric devised by milos with the addendum i added for humulin-r, anyways, those numbers will vary based on what type of activity you are doing, what your insulin resistance is and what type of food you've eaten before or what your blood sugar levels are when going into the injection.

personally, i don't feel like i'll go hypo without a carb shake when using 5iu, i will feel a little run down and lack some energy but don't feel as if i'll i'm in any danger lifting without a carb shake post insulin injection. i've never tried it but i know of peopple using about 2iu of slin while carbless so when one keeps the dosage of insulin on the lower end the body can handle the drops in blood sugar levels without a risk to one's health. 

there isn't a linear relationship with increases in insulin dosage and increases in hgh efficacy. hgh just works better with insulin but insulin used above ~9iu will become counterproductive due to it blunting hgh receptor expression.   

[claymore]

Define "tiny" use of insulin w gh. I'm using 10iu humulog in the AM and PW & was under the impression this was not an entirely aggressive use.

"& was under the impression this was not an entirely aggressive use."...It's not

[Rearden Metal]

"& was under the impression this was not an entirely aggressive use."...It's not

Right. So what I've experienced in a few weeks is maybe a lb or 2 weight gain with increased vascularity and arm and forearm pumps all day.

Maybe a little bit of added size but no mutation as of yet.

Also haven't gone hypo at all. I regularly eat lots of carbs anyway. So what would be the next step?

[tbombz]

insulin used above ~9iu will become counterproductive due to it blunting hgh receptor expression.   

im calling bullshit

for one, the human body releases equevalant amounts on its own in response to a small carb load

for two, where the fuck would you ever get that information to begin with

for three, anecdotal evidence from bodybuilders has shown increasing doseages of insulin ot provide increasing benefits (for those who do indeed benefit)

[aesthetics]

im calling bullshit

for one, the human body releases equevalant amounts on its own in response to a small carb load

for two, where the fuck would you ever get that information to begin with

for three, anecdotal evidence from bodybuilders has shown increasing doseages of insulin ot provide increasing benefits (for those who do indeed benefit)

i meant above 9iu in a single dosage, i think i said that but maybe not in that specific post i don't remember

here you go: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11134133

Abstract

Insulin modulates the biological actions of GH, but little is known about its effect on human hepatic GH receptors (GHRs). Using the human hepatoma cell line HuH7 as a model, we investigated insulin regulation of total, intracellular, and cell surface GHRs and receptor biosynthesis and turnover. Insulin up-regulated total and intracellular GHRs in a concentration-dependent manner. It increased surface GHRs in a biphasic manner, with a peak response at 10 nmol/L, and modulated GH-induced Janus kinase-2 phosphorylation in parallel with expression of surface GHRs. The abundance of GHR messenger ribonucleic acid and protein, as assessed by RT-PCR and Western analysis, respectively, markedly increased with insulin treatment. To examine whether insulin regulates GHRs at the posttranslational level, its effects on receptor surface translocation and internalization were investigated. Insulin suppressed surface translocation in a concentration-dependent manner, whereas internalization was unaffected. Moreover, insulin actions on total GHRs and surface translocation were inhibited by PD98059 and wortmannin, respectively. In conclusion, insulin regulates hepatic GHR biosynthesis and surface translocation in a reciprocal manner, with surface receptor availability the net result of the divergent effects. The divergent actions of insulin appear to be mediated by the mitogen-activated protein kinase and phosphatidylinositol 3-kinase pathways, respectively.

10nmol/l is 9iu

[chess315]

definitely a sufficient dosage post workout, however, if you meant for the entire day then in my opinion GH is simply one of those things where a little bit goes a long way but adding more will yield better results. i don't know what your goals are (beach body, pro-level, fitness model, et cetera) but GH used concurrently with a tiny bit of insulin (keyword: tiny!) will definitely get you there quicker and looking better but it's not an absolute necessity unless you are trying for the pros - remember: all the great 1970s physiques were built solely on d-bol, deca and tren.  

if you are asking if i only use 5iu a day: no. i use more than that, lol. the constraint on GH usage for me is the same as most others here, it's an issue of cost and affordability. also my personal, real life, has been pretty hectic and i would feel as though it would be a waste to mega dose GH consistently since i'm barely even training anymore.

my goals are just to combat aging and maybe stay lean and add a little mass.

[flinstones1]

fuck insulin. If I never get those magical 20 pounds of shit weight in the gut Milos talks about from it so be it.  I think the only way to benefit from it is to use insanely high doses to actually have an effect on protein breakdown in the first place, and doses like that are not healthy. ..felt waste of time for me, and my doses were not that low either.  It made me fuller but it dissapeared moment I went off.

IF I were to use it again and felt like making my bloofy physique even bloofier,  it be 10-15iu short acting insulin wiith every meal in addition to long acting insulin.

[tbombz]

i meant above 9iu in a single dosage, i think i said that but maybe not in that specific post i don't remember

here you go: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11134133

10nmol/l is 9iu

well the human body releases that much on its own to a decent carb load.. so wouldnt that mean that eating carbs while on GH should also be avoided ?

in the end, fuck science when it comes to bodybuilding or anything else for that matter, what matters is real world results. if the science says X,Y, and Z equal catabolism but in the real world X,Y and Z are causing guys to blow the fuck up...doesnt matter what the fuck the science says.

[qbkilla]

how would you guys run slin for someone who does cardio after workout and someone who doesn't drink liquid carbs (trainer has me taking just a solid meal pw i get to fat with all that malto etc).  im thinkinking no liquid carbs + cardio PW = impossible on slin. i guess my best bet would be to do the cardio later in the day and split it from the workout, maybe be  a little more conservative with slin.  so if my diet calls for 10oz pasta PW with some red meat, maybe shoot 4-5 iu slin Pre workout?  Still worried i might go hypo not drinking liquid cabrs.

[aesthetics]

well the human body releases that much on its own to a decent carb load.. so wouldnt that mean that eating carbs while on GH should also be avoided ?

in the end, fuck science when it comes to bodybuilding or anything else for that matter, what matters is real world results. if the science says X,Y, and Z equal catabolism but in the real world X,Y and Z are causing guys to blow the fuck up...doesnt matter what the fuck the science says.

i don't know, it's hard to quantify just how much insulin a normal, non-diabetic and non-insulin resistant person releases during a meal since there are so many variables. i'm not entirely sure but i imagine it would be a steady pulsation of lower levels of insulin over the course of a couple hours, after an initial large pulsation of around ~5-6iu that's stored in the pancreas, until blood glucose levels stabilize.  

anyways, the point that i was trying to impart, was that small amounts of insulin alongside GH is very beneficial and excessive insulin usage is not desirably and actually detrimental not only from the standpoint of one's physique but from a point of view concerned with maximizing growth. i don't think real world results will argue with that fact either, since using 100iu of humalog a day compared to 30iu probably won't accrue better results in hypertrophy, maybe some extra glycogen storage giving the appearance of larger gains but it will be at the cost of growing a giant stomach from the massive carb load necessary with those insulin levels.  

also i'm positive gh15 will agree with me here that excessive insulin abuse is the absolute wrong direction to go for someone trying to build an aesthetically pleasing and massive physique  

[aesthetics]

how would you guys run slin for someone who does cardio after workout and someone who doesn't drink liquid carbs (trainer has me taking just a solid meal pw i get to fat with all that malto etc).  im thinkinking no liquid carbs + cardio PW = impossible on slin. i guess my best bet would be to do the cardio later in the day and split it from the workout, maybe be  a little more conservative with slin.  so if my diet calls for 10oz pasta PW with some red meat, maybe shoot 4-5 iu slin Pre workout?  Still worried i might go hypo not drinking liquid cabrs.

i played sports often in the past and remember how close i've gone to going hypo, merely from the long grueling training and workouts the coaches imposed on me and my team mates. i would say, probably not a great idea without at least some form of glucose readily available. initially, i would use like, 2iu of humalin-r if it's preworkout, post-workout would probably be a better, and safer idea if you can't get time to consume some carbs, during the workout or a large enough carb load of low-gi carbs (like oats, i love oats) prior to your training to keep your blood glucose levels high enough.

however, i think it would be possible and easy to do pre-workout, but you have to be very cautious and know exactly what you are doing while being well attuned with how your body reacts and feels. people in the past have written about it and i know of guys now running slin while in keto and doing fasted cardio at the same time, so it is possible to do it safely however it is dangerous and not something that should be experimented with for someone who has no experience with insulin. i don't like to preach about the dangers of drug usage since that's largely for people to decide for themselves but in this case i think a strong word of caution should be given and if you want to try it then you should do a lot of research beforehand and start very slowly with low dosages of slower acting insulin, like humalin-r, and get a blood glucose meter to check yourself to see how you respond to various dosages during your training.  

i really don't understand why you can't drink a liquid carb drink during your workouts though, especially if you want to run insulin? simply get some karbolyn and mix up 50 grams of that stuff in water and just sip it throughout your workout when you normally go for water so this way you don't have to worry about going into a coma if your blood sugar levels drop too low. really simply and easy solution

[matrixgh]

I still just don't get it why slin before workout, why not just whit any meal during the day?

[aesthetics]

I still just don't get it why slin before workout, why not just whit any meal during the day?

sure, works too but slin is inherently anti-catabolic and weightlifting is very catabolic so using slin pre-workout is just more optimal. plus i notice i have massively increased recovery time when i use slin and overfeed amino acids. doms are decreased to the point of non-existence as well as the increased recovery between sets allowing me to do greater workloads in a single day of training. for me anyways, it's very noticeable when i use slin pre-workout.