Author Topic: Which of the GOP candidates has the best chance of beating Obama in your opinion  (Read 17125 times)

OzmO

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333333,

We weren't talking about towns we were talking about state governments.

Both those links had to do with cities and towns.

Please show me were state governments spend the mosto f its money on labor and benes.

Quote
Quote from: 333386 on December 19, 2011, 10:48:27 AM
Roll Eyes  Roll Eyes

Most of the money the govt spends in general is on labor and benes. 

Soul Crusher

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333333,

We weren't talking about towns we were talking about state governments.

Both those links had to do with cities and towns.

Please show me were state governments spend the mosto f its money on labor and benes.


I was wrong.   I should have said town and city budgets.  Difference is that State and Fed have social welfare programs whereas most town cities dont do it that way.     

LurkerNoMore

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Crash and burn baby.

OzmO

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I was wrong.   I should have said town and city budgets.  Difference is that State and Fed have social welfare programs whereas most town cities dont do it that way.     

no prob, good thing you didn't bet your account on it.   :)


Soul Crusher

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Crash and burn baby.

STFU moron - the states have 2 Trillion in unfunded pension obligations fool. 

LurkerNoMore

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no prob, good thing you didn't bet your account on it.   :)



You would have never collected the bet because he would have argued and ran in circles over and over chasing his tail.

OzmO

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You would have never collected the bet because he would have argued and ran in circles over and over chasing his tail.

yeah, maybe.  Actually if i did bet the parameters of the bet would have to be worked out first.  but, i wouldn't ever bet my account over someone else.  It's kind of stupid IMO, because it doesn't stop a person from creating another one and posting on it.  However, losing my account might be a problem because i am a moderator.  

But the bottom line here is:

State budgets are not mostly labor and benefits.  And although many of those benefits are costing more than planned for its only a small part of the reason some states are in trouble.  

Additionally, left unchecked, 333333  can be a nazi/commy level propaganda machine.  Which is sad, considering there is no need to be.  

Soul Crusher

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yeah, maybe.  Actually if i did bet the parameters of the bet would have to be worked out first.  but, i wouldn't ever bet my account over someone else.  It's kind of stupid IMO, because it doesn't stop a person from creating another one and posting on it.  However, losing my account might be a problem because i am a moderator.  

But the bottom line here is:

State budgets are not mostly labor and benefits.  And although many of those benefits are costing more than planned for its only a small part of the reason some states are in trouble.  

Additionally, left unchecked, 333333  can be a nazi/commy level propaganda machine.  Which is sad, considering there is no need to be.  


LMFAO!!!!    So why are state budgets in trouble ?   

OzmO

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LMFAO!!!!    So why are state budgets in trouble ?  

In general, over spending.  

Soul Crusher

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In general, over spending.  

On what? 

OzmO

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On what? 

Lots of stupid programs, but really state revenue is down. 

Here's graph that further shows how wrong you were:




Soul Crusher

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Lots of stupid programs, but really state revenue is down. 

Here's graph that further shows how wrong you were:





LOL.   Are you serious? 



OzmO

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LOL.   Are you serious? 




More serious than you were earlier when you were talking out of your ass again. 

Soul Crusher

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More serious than you were earlier when you were talking out of your ass again. 

States across the nation like Wisconsin, Ohio, Michigan Illinois, are all going broke why? 

OzmO

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States across the nation like Wisconsin, Ohio, Michigan Illinois, are all going broke why?  

is this why?

::)  ::)

Most of the money the govt spends in general is on labor and benes.  

or is it that state revenue is at a low due to things like UE but state expenditures continue to stay the same or are higher?

Soul Crusher

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is this why?

or is it that state revenue is at a low due to things like UE but state expenditures continue to stay the same or are higher?


And why cant states lower spending? 

OzmO

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And why cant states lower spending? 

States can whatever they vote themselves to do.  Imagine though if money in politics wasn't an issue.  Labor Unions couldn't donate, nor could corporations.  No more, if i donate to your campaign then you'll green light the money for my project BS.  State representatives are very similar to congressional representatives in that we no longer have a representative government.  Our government is bought and paid for making the ideology conflict a side show that helps keep us distracted. 

Soul Crusher

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States can whatever they vote themselves to do.  Imagine though if money in politics wasn't an issue.  Labor Unions couldn't donate, nor could corporations.  No more, if i donate to your campaign then you'll green light the money for my project BS.  State representatives are very similar to congressional representatives in that we no longer have a representative government.  Our government is bought and paid for making the ideology conflict a side show that helps keep us distracted. 

 ::)  ::)

idealogy has been the issue since the founding of this nation.   You think if money was not in politics there would be no fights and wars over policies and what to do? 

OzmO

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::)  ::)

idealogy has been the issue since the founding of this nation.   You think if money was not in politics there would be no fights and wars over policies and what to do?  

There should be, but the difference is money has made it less of an issue in regards to impact.  its just a side show now, with druggie talking heads like rush stirring the pot while people like BUSH/OB turn away from their ideology in favor of money.  

In other words, YES, there would be fights but at least these fights will not have money in them making the fights practically meaningless.

Just to make sure, because many times you get subject to your own BS propaganda, I am not saying:
Quote
You think if money was not in politics there would be no fights and wars over policies and what to do?




Skip8282

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But the bottom line here is:

State budgets are not mostly labor and benefits.  And although many of those benefits are costing more than planned for its only a small part of the reason some states are in trouble. 

 



No you're wrong. 

I'm sure you want some magic link available via the internet, and if you have access to academic databases, I could probably provide that, but I've studied enough towards my Master's to know the majority is going to be salaries and benefits - just as with many private companies.

For most states, the largest expenditure is education - in fact, I would challenge you to point out a state where that isn't the case.  There may be some, but I don't know of any.  Of course, that figure will be somewhat skewed as it also includes capital outlays, but I've yet to see a new building(s) exceed salaries and benes.  And, a good chunk of the capital outlay will go towards salaries and benes of the construction workers who win the bid.

Even if you look at healthcare, which is often a states second biggest expense, most of that will go to salaries and benes of the healthcare providers.  Sure, some of that will go to medical equipment like a wheelchair, but the biggest expense will be for the salaries and benes of the healthcare workers.  (or a portion - the way it typically works is a state has to cover what the feds won't, hence the rally against unfunded mandates).

State budgets predominately fund the executive branch and the overwhelming majority of that is salary and benes.  The smaller part is admininistrative shit like building materials (a new HVAC system or something, etc.) and then whatever other capital outlays are necessary.

Skip8282

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Lots of stupid programs, but really state revenue is down. 

Here's graph that further shows how wrong you were:







We would need to know what was included with this and what was excluded, but in general I would agree that salaries and benes are not necessarily the cause of state fiscal problems.  And given declining revenues, it stands to reason the salaries and benes would go down as well.  This does not mean that salaries and benes are not the largest expenditure for a state.

Soul Crusher

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Skip bringing the pain.

OzmO

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No you're wrong. 

I'm sure you want some magic link available via the internet, and if you have access to academic databases, I could probably provide that, but I've studied enough towards my Master's to know the majority is going to be salaries and benefits - just as with many private companies.

For most states, the largest expenditure is education - in fact, I would challenge you to point out a state where that isn't the case.  There may be some, but I don't know of any.  Of course, that figure will be somewhat skewed as it also includes capital outlays, but I've yet to see a new building(s) exceed salaries and benes.  And, a good chunk of the capital outlay will go towards salaries and benes of the construction workers who win the bid.

Even if you look at healthcare, which is often a states second biggest expense, most of that will go to salaries and benes of the healthcare providers.  Sure, some of that will go to medical equipment like a wheelchair, but the biggest expense will be for the salaries and benes of the healthcare workers.  (or a portion - the way it typically works is a state has to cover what the feds won't, hence the rally against unfunded mandates).

State budgets predominately fund the executive branch and the overwhelming majority of that is salary and benes.  The smaller part is admininistrative shit like building materials (a new HVAC system or something, etc.) and then whatever other capital outlays are necessary.

Not really Skip, you don't typically talk out of your ass.  So i don't necessarily need some magic link.

The conversation got started when 33333 stated that most of the budget goes to labor and benefits (specifically citing retirement, cost of living raises etc.)

I asked him to prove it and he couldn't and recanted his assertion.  

So I looked around and found this graph that also coincides with a article 333 provided that said  salaries and benefits are about 1/5 of state budgets:



So these are expenditures from permanent employees i am assuming.  i don't see how you can count the labor involved in a construction project when those people working there aren't employed by the state or are part of the states benefit plan.

It seems logical that the decrease in state revenue comes form the decrease in tax revenue from UE and underemployment.

OzmO

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Skip bringing the pain.

Really 3333?

Learn to read better!



We would need to know what was included with this and what was excluded,but in general I would agree that salaries and benes are not necessarily the cause of state fiscal problems. And given declining revenues, it stands to reason the salaries and benes would go down as well.  This does not mean that salaries and benes are not the largest expenditure for a state.

Straw Man

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In general, over spending.  

decrease in revunue is also a factor

budget deficits at all levels (Federal, State, Muncipal) have been hit hard by a decrease in revenue due to the financial slowdown.  When people lose their job they dont' pay taxes and draw UE.  When they default on their home their property taxes don't get paid (big source of revenue for the states like CA which have been hit really hard by the RE market failure).   Same effect with business failures.