Author Topic: The GOP's Payroll Tax Fiasco  (Read 1366 times)

Straw Man

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The GOP's Payroll Tax Fiasco
« on: December 22, 2011, 09:39:50 AM »
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204791104577110573867064702.html?mod=WSJ_Opinion_LEADTop

The GOP's Payroll Tax Fiasco
How did Republicans manage to lose the tax issue to Obama?.


GOP Senate leader Mitch McConnell famously said a year ago that his main task in the 112th Congress was to make sure that President Obama would not be re-elected. Given how he and House Speaker John Boehner have handled the payroll tax debate, we wonder if they might end up re-electing the President before the 2012 campaign even begins in earnest.

The GOP leaders have somehow managed the remarkable feat of being blamed for opposing a one-year extension of a tax holiday that they are surely going to pass. This is no easy double play.

Republicans have also achieved the small miracle of letting Mr. Obama position himself as an election-year tax cutter, although he's spent most of his Presidency promoting tax increases and he would hit the economy with one of the largest tax increases ever in 2013. This should be impossible.

House Republicans yesterday voted down the Senate's two-month extension of the two-percentage-point payroll tax holiday to 4.2% from 6.2%. They say the short extension makes no economic sense, but then neither does a one-year extension. No employer is going to hire a worker based on such a small and temporary decrease in employment costs, as this year's tax holiday has demonstrated. The entire exercise is political, but Republicans have thoroughly botched the politics.


Their first mistake was adopting the President's language that he is proposing a tax cut rather than calling it a temporary tax holiday. People will understand the difference—and discount the benefit.

Republicans also failed to put together a unified House and Senate strategy. The House passed a one-year extension last week that included spending cuts to offset the $120 billion or so in lost revenue, such as a one-year freeze on raises for federal employees. Then Mr. McConnell agreed with Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid on the two-month extension financed by higher fees on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac (meaning on mortgage borrowers), among other things. It passed with 89 votes and all but seven Republicans.

Senate Republicans say Mr. Boehner had signed off on the two-month extension, but House Members revolted over the weekend and so the Speaker flipped within 24 hours. Mr. Boehner is now demanding that Mr. Reid name conferees for a House-Senate conference on the payroll tax bills. But Mr. Reid and the White House are having too much fun blaming Republicans for "raising taxes on the middle class" as of January 1. Don't be surprised if they stretch this out to the State of the Union, when Mr. Obama will have a national audience to capture the tax issue.

If Republicans didn't want to extend the payroll tax cut on the merits, then they should have put together a strategy and the arguments for defeating it and explained why.


But if they knew they would eventually pass it, as most of them surely believed, then they had one of two choices. Either pass it quickly and at least take some political credit for it.

Or agree on a strategy to get something in return for passing it, which would mean focusing on a couple of popular policies that would put Mr. Obama and Democrats on the political spot. They finally did that last week by attaching a provision that requires Mr. Obama to make a decision on the Keystone XL pipeline within 60 days, and the President grumbled but has agreed to sign it.

But now Republicans are drowning out that victory in the sounds of their circular firing squad. Already four GOP Senators have rejected the House position, and the political rout will only get worse.

One reason for the revolt of House backbenchers is the accumulated frustration over a year of political disappointment. Their high point was the Paul Ryan budget in the spring that set the terms of debate and forced Mr. Obama to adopt at least the rhetoric of budget reform and spending cuts.

But then Messrs. Boehner and McConnell were gulled into going behind closed doors with the President, who dragged out negotiations and later emerged to sandbag them with his blame-the-GOP and soak-the-rich re-election strategy. Any difference between the parties on taxes and spending has been blurred in the interim.

After a year of the tea party House, Mr. Obama and Senate Democrats have had to make no major policy concessions beyond extending the Bush tax rates for two years. Mr. Obama is in a stronger re-election position today than he was a year ago, and the chances of Mr. McConnell becoming Majority Leader in 2013 are declining.

***
At this stage, Republicans would do best to cut their losses and find a way to extend the payroll holiday quickly. Then go home and return in January with a united House-Senate strategy that forces Democrats to make specific policy choices that highlight the differences between the parties on spending, taxes and regulation. Wisconsin freshman Senator Ron Johnson has been floating a useful agenda for such a strategy. The alternative is more chaotic retreat and the return of all-Democratic rule.


Soul Crusher

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Re: The GOP's Payroll Tax Fiasco
« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2011, 09:44:47 AM »
This entire issue is a fiasco.  There never should have been a payroll tax cut in the first place with oan offset of benefits. 

Additionally - the piece of shits in the congress and obama want to finance this by permanent fees added to home mortgages.   


This is another ponzi scheme by Obama. 

Straw Man

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Re: The GOP's Payroll Tax Fiasco
« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2011, 09:46:39 AM »
This entire issue is a fiasco.  There never should have been a payroll tax cut in the first place with oan offset of benefits. 

Additionally - the piece of shits in the congress and obama want to finance this by permanent fees added to home mortgages.   


This is another ponzi scheme by Obama. 

all this shows is that Repubs are incapable of governing

they can't even run their own party

Soul Crusher

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Re: The GOP's Payroll Tax Fiasco
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2011, 09:48:55 AM »
all this shows is that Repubs are incapable of governing

they can't even run their own party



LOL.  and no blame to Obama?  LMFAO!!!!

________________________ ________________________ ____

The Social Security tax cut is both stupid and evil.  Stupid, because it increases the deficit, while actually retarding economic growth and job creation.  Evil, because it turns Social Security into even more of a welfare program than it already is, while pretending that this is not what is happening.

The viability of Social Security depends upon economic growth.  Social Security is funded by payroll taxes that reliably capture about 4.6% of GDP.  Therefore, looking at Social Security as a retirement program, its “asset” is 4.6% of the present value of future U.S. GDP.  It is from the value of this asset that the Social Security System must pay all promised future benefits.

The present value of future U.S. GDP is exquisitely sensitive to our long-term average real rate of economic growth.  At the Social Security Trustees’ assumed long-term GDP growth rate (2.11% real), the present value of Social Security’s promised benefits exceeds the value of Social Security’s “asset” by $17.9 trillion.

However, the present value of future U.S. GDP rises very rapidly as the economic growth rate increases.  At long-term average GDP growth rates above 2.90% (which is the assumed real interest rate on government debt), the value of Social Security’s “asset” goes to infinity, and all of the system’s financial woes disappear.

Because Social Security benefits are paid out of a fixed share of future GDP, it makes sense to fund Social Security via a tax that does not impact GDP growth.  Because it is “capped”, the Social Security payroll tax is exactly such a tax.  If the payroll tax is cut, the funding shortfall must be made up with other taxes (e.g., income taxes) that have the side effect of reducing the rate of economic growth.

To propose such a move is evil and to agree with it is stupid.  This is probably why the temporary Social Security tax cut passed a year ago with bipartisan majorities in both the House and the Senate.

The “temporary” Social Security tax cut is damaging to job creation, economic growth, federal finances, and the integrity of our Social Security System.  If America is to thrive, the Stupid Party must become less stupid.   Refusing to extend this ill-conceived tax cut would be a good place for the Republicans to start.



http://www.forbes.com/sites/louiswoodhill/2011/12/21/dont-extend-the-ill-conceived-evil-payroll-tax-cut/2/


Straw Man

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Re: The GOP's Payroll Tax Fiasco
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2011, 09:54:26 AM »

LOL.  and no blame to Obama?  LMFAO!!!!

________________________ ________________________ ____

The Social Security tax cut is both stupid and evil.  Stupid, because it increases the deficit, while actually retarding economic growth and job creation.  Evil, because it turns Social Security into even more of a welfare program than it already is, while pretending that this is not what is happening.

The viability of Social Security depends upon economic growth.  Social Security is funded by payroll taxes that reliably capture about 4.6% of GDP.  Therefore, looking at Social Security as a retirement program, its “asset” is 4.6% of the present value of future U.S. GDP.  It is from the value of this asset that the Social Security System must pay all promised future benefits.

The present value of future U.S. GDP is exquisitely sensitive to our long-term average real rate of economic growth.  At the Social Security Trustees’ assumed long-term GDP growth rate (2.11% real), the present value of Social Security’s promised benefits exceeds the value of Social Security’s “asset” by $17.9 trillion.

However, the present value of future U.S. GDP rises very rapidly as the economic growth rate increases.  At long-term average GDP growth rates above 2.90% (which is the assumed real interest rate on government debt), the value of Social Security’s “asset” goes to infinity, and all of the system’s financial woes disappear.

Because Social Security benefits are paid out of a fixed share of future GDP, it makes sense to fund Social Security via a tax that does not impact GDP growth.  Because it is “capped”, the Social Security payroll tax is exactly such a tax.  If the payroll tax is cut, the funding shortfall must be made up with other taxes (e.g., income taxes) that have the side effect of reducing the rate of economic growth.

To propose such a move is evil and to agree with it is stupid.  This is probably why the temporary Social Security tax cut passed a year ago with bipartisan majorities in both the House and the Senate.

The “temporary” Social Security tax cut is damaging to job creation, economic growth, federal finances, and the integrity of our Social Security System.  If America is to thrive, the Stupid Party must become less stupid.   Refusing to extend this ill-conceived tax cut would be a good place for the Republicans to start.



http://www.forbes.com/sites/louiswoodhill/2011/12/21/dont-extend-the-ill-conceived-evil-payroll-tax-cut/2/



if it's so stupid then why did both parties pass it last year and why did the Senate (including Repubs) pass it this year

What we have are tea party morons (such as yourself) in the House fighting with Repubs in the Senate and all they are doing is making Obama look good (maybe you're aware of Obama's rising approval ratings)

Soul Crusher

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Re: The GOP's Payroll Tax Fiasco
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2011, 09:59:15 AM »
Because both parties suck shit!   This is a ponzi scam intended for the retards like yourself to eat up.   

Where do you think the money is coming from for this?   They are borrowing it out of the general fund, which is borrowed from China to finance a small amount now. 


Its utterly stupid.  If they want to do something positive, lower the income tax rate and cut spending by a porportionate amount. 

Soul Crusher

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Re: The GOP's Payroll Tax Fiasco
« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2011, 10:00:16 AM »
if it's so stupid then why did both parties pass it last year and why did the Senate (including Repubs) pass it this year

What we have are tea party morons (such as yourself) in the House fighting with Repubs in the Senate and all they are doing is making Obama look good (maybe you're aware of Obama's rising approval ratings)

Obama is go inasmuch as the media lets him get away with his matrix of lies daily and gullible dupes such as yourself literally hanging off of every word he says as if its gospel. 

Fury

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Re: The GOP's Payroll Tax Fiasco
« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2011, 10:01:40 AM »
all this shows is that Repubs are incapable of governing

they can't even run their own party


Neither can the Dems. Both sides are beyond incompetent.

So do you agree with the WSJ's argument that this tax cut is pointless or did you only bother reading the headline?

OzmO

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Re: The GOP's Payroll Tax Fiasco
« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2011, 10:04:59 AM »
Because both parties suck shit!   

Both sides are beyond incompetent.


 ;)


Fury

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Soul Crusher

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Re: The GOP's Payroll Tax Fiasco
« Reply #10 on: December 22, 2011, 10:15:02 AM »
::)



The biggest problem is that they are going to forver keep extending this and creating a bigger disaster for SS unless they plan on cutting benefits to offset the added deficit.   

headhuntersix

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Re: The GOP's Payroll Tax Fiasco
« Reply #11 on: December 22, 2011, 10:21:39 AM »
40 bucks.......thanks Barry ur awsome. What a piece of shit. I hope his Christmas sucks....
L

Soul Crusher

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Re: The GOP's Payroll Tax Fiasco
« Reply #12 on: December 22, 2011, 10:24:11 AM »
40 bucks.......thanks Barry ur awsome. What a piece of shit. I hope his Christmas sucks....

I hope he gets stuck in the WH with only a few 40's, espn, some ocra and biscuits, and gets to hear the waves crashing from when Mobacca the Hut is doing cannonballs into the pool. 

OzmO

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Re: The GOP's Payroll Tax Fiasco
« Reply #13 on: December 22, 2011, 10:24:22 AM »

headhuntersix

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Re: The GOP's Payroll Tax Fiasco
« Reply #14 on: December 22, 2011, 10:39:25 AM »
I hope he gets stuck in the WH with only a few 40's, espn, some ocra and biscuits, and gets to hear the waves crashing from when Mobacca the Hut is doing cannonballs into the pool. 

 ;D ;D ;D ;D
L

Straw Man

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Re: The GOP's Payroll Tax Fiasco
« Reply #15 on: December 22, 2011, 11:02:07 AM »
Neither can the Dems. Both sides are beyond incompetent.

So do you agree with the WSJ's argument that this tax cut is pointless or did you only bother reading the headline?

poor reading comprehension ..... as usual

article didn't say it was pointlless

it claimed "No employer is going to hire a worker based on such a small and temporary decrease in employment costs, as this year's tax holiday has demonstrated"

I didn't see any proof or additional comment to support their claim and the purpose of the tax holiday was not to directly create jobs but to put more money in the hands of the poor and middle class which not only help those people but could have stimulative effect on the economy

Soul Crusher

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Re: The GOP's Payroll Tax Fiasco
« Reply #16 on: December 22, 2011, 11:08:43 AM »
poor reading comprehension ..... as usual

article didn't say it was pointlless

it claimed "No employer is going to hire a worker based on such a small and temporary decrease in employment costs, as this year's tax holiday has demonstrated"

I didn't see any proof or additional comment to support their claim and the purpose of the tax holiday was not to directly create jobs but to put more money in the hands of the poor and middle class which not only help those people but could have stimulative effect on the economy


and defund SS! 

Fury

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Re: The GOP's Payroll Tax Fiasco
« Reply #17 on: December 22, 2011, 11:11:11 AM »
poor reading comprehension ..... as usual

article didn't say it was pointlless

it claimed "No employer is going to hire a worker based on such a small and temporary decrease in employment costs, as this year's tax holiday has demonstrated"

I didn't see any proof or additional comment to support their claim and the purpose of the tax holiday was not to directly create jobs but to put more money in the hands of the poor and middle class which not only help those people but could have stimulative effect on the economy

Why did you leave out the next sentence which concludes that this is nothing more than a political stunt. By arguing that it's nothing more than a political stunt they are also arguing thatbit won't help the economy.

I guess reading comprehension failed you. Not surprising as you're just not very intelligent.

Straw Man

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Re: The GOP's Payroll Tax Fiasco
« Reply #18 on: December 22, 2011, 11:12:46 AM »
Why did you leave out the next sentence which concludes that this is nothing more than a political stunt. By arguing that it's nothing more than a political stunt they are also arguing thatbit won't help the economy.

I guess reading comprehension failed you. Not surprising as you're just not very intelligent.

since when is putting more money in the hands of poor and middle class people a political stunt?

I guess giving millionares a tax break is a political stunt as well

Soul Crusher

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Re: The GOP's Payroll Tax Fiasco
« Reply #19 on: December 22, 2011, 11:14:19 AM »
since when is putting more money in the hands of poor and middle class people a political stunt?

I guess giving millionares a tax break is a political stunt as well

Because it is defunding the only revenue stream to SS at a time when more and more are going on the system!   

Are you so brain dead not to see that? 

OzmO

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Re: The GOP's Payroll Tax Fiasco
« Reply #20 on: December 22, 2011, 11:15:24 AM »
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-57346952-503544/karl-rove-piles-on-tells-republicans-to-cut-bait-in-tax-standoff/

Karl Rove piles on, tells Republicans to cut bait in tax standoff

You know it's bad for Republicans when Karl Rove says it's time to cave and move on.

The former political adviser to President George W. Bush said Wednesday that the famously conservative Wall Street Journal editorial page was right when it said House Republicans should cut their losses and agree with a bipartisan Senate plan to extend for just two months the payroll tax cut enacted last year.

Republicans "have lost the optics on it," Rove told Fox News, "the question now is how do the Republicans get out of it."

Speaker John Boehner and House Republicans on Tuesday blocked a Senate proposal to extend the popular tax cut for two months in an effort to allow lawmaker from both parties more time to hash out a larger compromise on a host of issues that were holding up the payroll tax extension.

Boehner had reportedly backed the plan at first, but many of the most conservative members of parties revolted on Saturday and said they would not accept the Senate plan, vowing to kill it when it came to the House of Representatives.

But that may have been easier said than done. So Boehner came up with a plan to block the Senate bill without actually voting on the extension. Using a procedural move, the House voted to "disagree" with the Senate plan and set up a committee of members from both parties from both the House and Senate to work out a new compromise on legislation.

But most senators had already left Washington for the holidays and the Senate proposal was itself a compromise between Democrats and Republicans, who overwhelmingly supported the short-term legislative option to avoid the most contentious issues and pass the popular tax cut for two months. The Senate bill, which also includes an extension of unemployment benefits and a measure to make sure doctors do not have their Medicare payments cut, passed 89-10. All but seven Republicans voted for it.

The mastermind of Mr. Bush's 2004 re-election effort said the only thing Republicans can do now is "use it for political theater and then vote the two month extension and get out of town."

"The only way to win it is to just stick there and ruin their own Christmases and wait until the president heads off to Hawaii for his, and then lambaste the Democrats for having abdicated their responsibilities to pass a year-long tax cut," Rove said.

The payroll tax affects about 160 million Americans and it was cut a year ago in an effort to stimulate the economy with a little extra cash in people's pockets. Many conservative Republicans are skeptical of the macroeconomic benefits of the payroll tax cut.

Mark Zandi, an influential economist who served as an adviser to the 2008 presidential campaign of Sen. John McCain, has said the economy could fall back into recession if the payroll tax cut is not extended.

howardroark

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Re: The GOP's Payroll Tax Fiasco
« Reply #21 on: December 22, 2011, 11:15:36 AM »
So the issue is that the House Republicans want spending cuts to offset the cost of a one-year tax cut while the Senate wants a temporary tax holiday paid for by mortgage owners? Seems like the House Republicans are right on this one. BTW, a one-year payroll tax cut makes sense, but a 2-month one doesn't.

A two-month tax cut is too transient to accomplish anything. However, a one-year tax cut might be just enough for a business that relies on unskilled workers.

Straw Man

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Re: The GOP's Payroll Tax Fiasco
« Reply #22 on: December 22, 2011, 11:19:38 AM »
Why did you leave out the next sentence which concludes that this is nothing more than a political stunt. By arguing that it's nothing more than a political stunt they are also arguing thatbit won't help the economy.

I guess reading comprehension failed you. Not surprising as you're just not very intelligent.

btw - the (WSJ) never used the word "stunt"

they said the "The entire exercise is political"

what exercise are they talking about?

Since the article is about how fucked up the GOP leadership it is more likely they are talking about the "excerise" of the House Republican blocking the legislation when they know they will eventually pass it

Soul Crusher

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Re: The GOP's Payroll Tax Fiasco
« Reply #23 on: December 22, 2011, 11:20:14 AM »
Obama , in all his marxism and communism, is adding $17 a month to new mortgages to pay for this.


This kenyan muslim neo-terrorist one man sleeper cell needs to be defeated.      

Fury

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Re: The GOP's Payroll Tax Fiasco
« Reply #24 on: December 22, 2011, 11:20:54 AM »
since when is putting more money in the hands of poor and middle class people a political stunt?

I guess giving millionares a tax break is a political stunt as well

Wait a minute, are you now arguing that tax cuts are beneficial to an economy? Haha, you can't even keep your story straight.

By the way, Americans won't see a dime from a two-month extension as it has already been shown that it will take longer than that to implement it. Not that the left was really interested in helping anyone as much as they were interested in scoring political points.