Author Topic: Minimum wage increases for workers in eight states  (Read 1379 times)

Dos Equis

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Minimum wage increases for workers in eight states
« on: December 24, 2011, 10:52:39 AM »
Is this is a good thing?

Minimum wage increases for workers in eight states
By Blake Ellis @CNNMoney December 23, 2011


NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- While some workers are worried about smaller paychecks next year, more than 1.4 million low-income earners will see their wages go up on New Year's Day.
Minimum wage rates in Arizona, Colorado, Florida, Montana, Ohio, Oregon, Vermont and Washington will rise between 28 and 37 cents per hour on Jan. 1, thanks to state laws requiring that minimum wage keeps pace with inflation.

Rates in these states will range from $7.64 per hour (in Colorado), to $9.04 (in Washington) in 2012.

While the federal minimum wage rate is $7.25 -- amounting to annual income of just over $15,000 -- 18 states and Washington, D.C., have rates above the federal level. Ten states raise their rates each year to make sure wages reflect increases in the cost of living. (Nevada will revise its minimum wage in July, while Missouri's rate is still under the federal minimum wage.)

The small boosts for 2012 are estimated to tack an extra $582 to $770 a year onto the paychecks of full-time workers, according to the National Employment Law Project, a non-profit advocacy group.
What's more, the increases could be a mini-boost for the economy. The expected rise in consumer spending as a result of the wage increases would add $366 million to the nation's gross domestic product and lead to the creation of more than 3,000 full-time jobs.

Why I still believe in the American Dream

"Increasing minimum wage is a key form of local stimulus," said Paul Sonn, legal co-director at NELP. "It helps front-line workers whose wages have been stagnant and falling by putting more money into the pockets of low income families who then spend the money at local businesses."

Workers considered low-wage, with median wages under $13.52 an hour, have watched their wages decline 2.3% since the recession began, NELP found. About 80% of the low-wage workers impacted by the increases are over the age of 20, and 78% work at least 20 hours per week.

And the minimum wage boosts are being introduced at a crucial time, with the fate of the payroll tax cut in limbo. The House and Senate finally approved a short-term extension of the payroll tax cut on Friday, extending the life of the tax break until February.

The payroll tax cut allows workers to pay only 4.2% on the first $110,100 of their wages into Social Security -- 2 percentage points less than the normal 6.2% rate.
What the payroll tax deal will do

But if an extension isn't approved for all of 2012, lower-income Americans stand to lose hundreds of dollars a year in savings, while workers making over six-figures could see their paychecks shrink by thousands of dollars a year. Overall, an estimated 160 million Americans would see a reduction in their paychecks.

But raising minimum wage could help to offset the hit for millions of low-income workers in these states, said Sonn.

"The eight states that are raising the minimum wage on January 1 are protecting themselves in case Congress can't get its act together again to extend the payroll tax break beyond February," said Sonn.
"The higher wages for workers at the bottom will boost their incomes at least as much if not more than the payroll tax break will."

http://money.cnn.com/2011/12/23/news/economy/minimum_wage_increases/index.htm?hpt=hp_t2

howardroark

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Re: Minimum wage increases for workers in eight states
« Reply #1 on: December 24, 2011, 08:34:42 PM »
Econ 101: If the price increases for a good, then people will buy less of it. So higher minimum wage = less employment for unskilled workers.

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Re: Minimum wage increases for workers in eight states
« Reply #2 on: December 24, 2011, 08:38:55 PM »
yea, aside from pockets of abuse, IMO without that 'floor' of a minimum wage, the average wage would increase.

$7.50 an hour is terrible, but it means people accept 8.25 an hour because "hey, at least I'm not making min wage".

in reality, if you're giving your body, voice, mind and time for 60 minutes, you probably deserve more than 8.25 as well.

howardroark

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Re: Minimum wage increases for workers in eight states
« Reply #3 on: December 24, 2011, 08:47:54 PM »
yea, aside from pockets of abuse, IMO without that 'floor' of a minimum wage, the average wage would increase.

$7.50 an hour is terrible, but it means people accept 8.25 an hour because "hey, at least I'm not making min wage".

in reality, if you're giving your body, voice, mind and time for 60 minutes, you probably deserve more than 8.25 as well.

Yeah man, but if you looked at some of the people who work minimum wage jobs - and then you investigated how much they actually contribute to their employer, you'd come to the realization real quick that a lot of people just aren't fit to earn more than $8.25/hour.

tonymctones

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Re: Minimum wage increases for workers in eight states
« Reply #4 on: December 24, 2011, 09:11:17 PM »
Econ 101: If the price increases for a good, then people will buy less of it. So higher minimum wage = less employment for unskilled workers.
to simplistic of a view to be serious bro...how many businesses margins are that razor thin where they have to?

Its not that they must pass on the increase its that they will...

And if we as consumers were concerned enough we would retaliate with our patronage of their business but we dont(for now).

tonymctones

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Re: Minimum wage increases for workers in eight states
« Reply #5 on: December 24, 2011, 09:14:20 PM »
Yeah man, but if you looked at some of the people who work minimum wage jobs - and then you investigated how much they actually contribute to their employer, you'd come to the realization real quick that a lot of people just aren't fit to earn more than $8.25/hour.
totally agree with this though...

but then again you look at ppl making 40k a year and realize they should probably be making 60k a year so its give and take all around.


howardroark

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Re: Minimum wage increases for workers in eight states
« Reply #6 on: December 24, 2011, 09:16:36 PM »
to simplistic of a view to be serious bro...

Not at all. It's how businesses make calculations day-to-day. You won't buy the same amount of labor at $10/hour as you will at $5/hour.

tonymctones

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Re: Minimum wage increases for workers in eight states
« Reply #7 on: December 24, 2011, 09:17:45 PM »
Yeah man, but if you looked at some of the people who work minimum wage jobs - and then you investigated how much they actually contribute to their employer, you'd come to the realization real quick that a lot of people just aren't fit to earn more than $8.25/hour.
very randian of you though mr. atlas ;)

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Re: Minimum wage increases for workers in eight states
« Reply #8 on: December 24, 2011, 09:19:58 PM »
very randian of you though mr. atlas ;)

Haha, it's not even Randian though! It's just basic business and economics.

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Re: Minimum wage increases for workers in eight states
« Reply #9 on: December 24, 2011, 09:25:59 PM »
Econ 101: If the price increases for a good, then people will buy less of it. So higher minimum wage = less employment for unskilled workers.

100% correct. Im not sure what it is that makes people think that labor is immune from the laws of supply and demand. I guess its the same thing that makes people think health care is immune from the laws of supply and demand - the human factor.

Do people think that if a man jumps from the Empire State building, that he wont go splat when he hits the ground? Do they think the laws of physics will spare him because he is a living breathing human being?

San Francisco just raised thier minimum wage to $10.00 !! Think very hard and be honest with yourself. If youre a 17 year old with no work experience, how easy do you think it will be to get a job at that wage?
Jan. Jobs: 36,000!!

tonymctones

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Re: Minimum wage increases for workers in eight states
« Reply #10 on: December 24, 2011, 09:31:38 PM »
100% correct. Im not sure what it is that makes people think that labor is immune from the laws of supply and demand. I guess its the same thing that makes people think health care is immune from the laws of supply and demand - the human factor.

Do people think that if a man jumps from the Empire State building, that he wont go splat when he hits the ground? Do they think the laws of physics will spare him because he is a living breathing human being?

San Francisco just raised thier minimum wage to $10.00 !! Think very hard and be honest with yourself. If youre a 17 year old with no work experience, how easy do you think it will be to get a job at that wage?
the funny thing is that ppl dont realize that the law of supply and demand are dependent on human nature.

If human nature was different then the law of supply and demand would not apply.

howardroark

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Re: Minimum wage increases for workers in eight states
« Reply #11 on: December 24, 2011, 09:32:53 PM »
the funny thing is that ppl dont realize that the law of supply and demand are dependent on human nature.

If human nature was different then the law of supply and demand would not apply.

It's not dependent on human nature at all. It's dependent on the fact that we live in a world with finite resources.

tonymctones

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Re: Minimum wage increases for workers in eight states
« Reply #12 on: December 24, 2011, 09:33:33 PM »
Not at all. It's how businesses make calculations day-to-day. You won't buy the same amount of labor at $10/hour as you will at $5/hour.
no son, businesses should be anyways although not always run in a way that helps the consumer while benefitting the business. You dont create good will by shitting on the consumer, or at least you dont after a certain point...we just havent reached that point yet.

tonymctones

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Re: Minimum wage increases for workers in eight states
« Reply #13 on: December 24, 2011, 09:35:00 PM »
It's not dependent on human nature at all. It's dependent on the fact that we live in a world with finite resources.
Indeed sir, and its human nature to realize that we can get more from that....

Its human nature to be GREEDY!!!

so by that the law of supply and demand says that if demand is high and supply low then we CAN CHARGE MORE....NOT THAT WE MUST CHARGE MORE

AGAIN, without human nature the law of supply and demand is nothing more than theory...

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Re: Minimum wage increases for workers in eight states
« Reply #14 on: December 24, 2011, 09:36:03 PM »
Haha, it's not even Randian though! It's just basic business and economics.
LOL its very randian my friend...

howardroark

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Re: Minimum wage increases for workers in eight states
« Reply #15 on: December 24, 2011, 09:37:34 PM »
Indeed sir, and its human nature to realize that we can get more from that....

Its human nature to be GREEDY!!!

so by that the law of supply and demand says that if demand is high and supply low then we CAN CHARGE MORE....NOT THAT WE MUST CHARGE MORE

AGAIN, without human nature the law of supply and demand is nothing more than theory...

No, the laws of supply and demand do not depend on whether people are selfish or altruistic. They do not state that you can charge more, but that you should charge more. If only 100 units of a good can be produced at $15/unit but the demand at $15/unit is 200 units, what happens? A shortage occurs. You need prices to increase in order to equilibriate supply with demand.

howardroark

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Re: Minimum wage increases for workers in eight states
« Reply #16 on: December 24, 2011, 09:40:12 PM »
no son, businesses should be anyways although not always run in a way that helps the consumer while benefitting the business. You dont create good will by shitting on the consumer, or at least you dont after a certain point...we just havent reached that point yet.

Your point? What you just said has literally nothing to do with the argument at hand. In fact, watch me use your argument in my favor:

One way to provide a superior service to your customers is by providing lower prices. One way to provide lower prices is to reduce your labor costs. Thus, a business that could hire workers at below the minimum wage would be able to better customer satisfaction by lowering prices.

tonymctones

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Re: Minimum wage increases for workers in eight states
« Reply #17 on: December 24, 2011, 09:41:27 PM »
No, the laws of supply and demand do not depend on whether people are selfish or altruistic. They do not state that you can charge more, but that you should charge more. If only 100 units of a good can be produced at $15/unit but the demand at $15/unit is 200 units, what happens? A shortage occurs. You need prices to increase in order to equilibriate supply with demand.
hahaha and why does there need to be an equilibrium? b/c that is what brings the most money...again GREED SIR, human nature...


tonymctones

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Re: Minimum wage increases for workers in eight states
« Reply #18 on: December 24, 2011, 09:42:41 PM »
Your point? What you just said has literally nothing to do with the argument at hand. In fact, watch me use your argument in my favor:

One way to provide a superior service to your customers is by providing lower prices. One way to provide lower prices is to reduce your labor costs. Thus, a business that could hire workers at below the minimum wage would be able to better customer satisfaction by lowering prices.
LOL your forgetting a crucial part if the ppl consuming your service are the ppl your shitting on by lowering pay rates or jobs then what?


howardroark

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Re: Minimum wage increases for workers in eight states
« Reply #19 on: December 24, 2011, 09:42:52 PM »
LOL its very randian my friend...

If you really think so, then I suggest you try working as a manager at a McDonald's, as I once did. At least 50% of your job is allocating your available labor correctly and controlling labor costs.

howardroark

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Re: Minimum wage increases for workers in eight states
« Reply #20 on: December 24, 2011, 09:44:30 PM »
hahaha and why does there need to be an equilibrium? b/c that is what brings the most money...again GREED SIR, human nature...



If there is not an equilibrium then you are not providing the good to the people who want it the most. You are, in essence, introducing a very serious inefficiency to the market process.

howardroark

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Re: Minimum wage increases for workers in eight states
« Reply #21 on: December 24, 2011, 09:45:32 PM »
LOL your forgetting a crucial part if the ppl consuming your service are the ppl your shitting on by lowering pay rates or jobs then what?



You're forgetting the part that if you can hire 20 people at $5/hour or 10 people at $10/hour that one way you get ten people without jobs or an income and the other you get everyone employed.

tonymctones

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Re: Minimum wage increases for workers in eight states
« Reply #22 on: December 24, 2011, 09:46:33 PM »
If you really think so, then I suggest you try working as a manager at a McDonald's, as I once did. At least 50% of your job is allocating your available labor correctly and controlling labor costs.
LOL have a buddy whos dad owns a number of McDonalds around Houston he just finshed "burger U" and has worked as a manager for them probably going on 2 years now.

I myself work for a company whos number one cost is labor, I know that of what I speak my friend ;)

tonymctones

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Re: Minimum wage increases for workers in eight states
« Reply #23 on: December 24, 2011, 09:48:14 PM »
If there is not an equilibrium then you are not providing the good to the people who want it the most. You are, in essence, introducing a very serious inefficiency to the market process.
LOL the only reason its "inefficient" is b/c youre not making as much as you could be...

Again your not being as GREEDY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! as you could be...

without human nature, more specifically the greed part, supply and demand is simply theory...

like I said, but thank you for making my point ;)

tonymctones

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Re: Minimum wage increases for workers in eight states
« Reply #24 on: December 24, 2011, 09:50:29 PM »
You're forgetting the part that if you can hire 20 people at $5/hour or 10 people at $10/hour that one way you get ten people without jobs or an income and the other you get everyone employed.
lol again youre looking at it with the same margins....stop looking at it with the same margins and look at it with the idea of the company lowering their margins in order to employ or pay more to the ppl that are consumers of their product/service and there by creating more demand.

Lower margins but higher revenue, in the end there might be a net gain!!!