Author Topic: If anyone knows John Stuart Mill...  (Read 5792 times)

outby43

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If anyone knows John Stuart Mill...
« on: January 20, 2012, 02:25:21 AM »
Help me out.  I don't understand a fucking word this guy says.

Explain the objection that utilitarianism is a doctrine of expediency. What is Mill's response?

We got a lot of smart people on here so I thought I'd give it a shot.

Thanks

Tito24

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Re: If anyone knows John Stuart Mill...
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2012, 02:52:13 AM »
smart bodybuilder

wes

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Re: If anyone knows John Stuart Mill...
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2012, 02:53:36 AM »
Translation:

WHO GIVES A SHIT  ?

HTH  ;D

outby43

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Re: If anyone knows John Stuart Mill...
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2012, 03:17:13 AM »
Translation:

WHO GIVES A SHIT  ?

HTH  ;D

That's how I feel Wes but unfortunately I can't pass a class with that answer...lol.   Maybe I should just insert some GH15 ramblings for my answer

BigCyp

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Re: If anyone knows John Stuart Mill...
« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2012, 03:17:45 AM »
Piss off Einstein.

wes

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Re: If anyone knows John Stuart Mill...
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2012, 03:27:00 AM »
That's how I feel Wes but unfortunately I can't pass a class with that answer...lol.   Maybe I should just insert some GH15 ramblings for my answer
I`m just fucking around bro......nothing personal,trust me............my coffee just kicked in and I`m finally awake.  ;)

outby43

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Re: If anyone knows John Stuart Mill...
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2012, 03:31:35 AM »
I`m just fucking around bro......nothing personal,trust me............my coffee just kicked in and I`m finally awake.  ;)


No problem dude.  Just don't try to post on the Entertainment board I mod.  You are banned  ;D

Bam-bam

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Re: If anyone knows John Stuart Mill...
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2012, 03:37:41 AM »
There is a couple chapters about Mill and such topics on this book, you will get your answers there, thats as far i as will go


DK II

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Re: If anyone knows John Stuart Mill...
« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2012, 03:49:12 AM »
Help me out.  I don't understand a fucking word this guy says.

Explain the objection that utilitarianism is a doctrine of expediency. What is Mill's response?

We got a lot of smart people on here so I thought I'd give it a shot.

Thanks


Tapeworm

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Re: If anyone knows John Stuart Mill...
« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2012, 03:51:45 AM »
Could be wrong but I'll take a shot.  The greatest good for the greatest number isn't an ethically oriented doctrine in that it allows immoral acts provided they yield more benefit than harm.  For (a poor) example, say there's a town where people are being murdered and the townsfolk have become so terrified of going outside that commerce is suffering to such an extent that pretty soon there won't be any food in the store and lots of people are going to die of starvation.  If we just grab some poor dude and hang him in the public square, and keep a hush on future murders, then everyone will feel secure again and go back to growing their crops or whatever and the townsfolk will be saved from starvation.  

In another town where there are no murders or terrified people, it's clearly immoral to execute an innocent man.  Just because there's a benefit to our town in calling an innocent guy a murderer and executing him, he's still an innocent man and it's just as crappy a thing to do here as it would be anywhere.  The same applies to misinforming the people about the identity of the killer as well as about the occurence of future murders.  A beneficial upside doesn't turn an immoral act into a moral one.  It's still an immoral act.  Just ask the innocent man.

Mill would (possibly) respond that it would be the greater evil to allow the entire town to perish rather than choose the lesser evil of executing an innocent man and misinforming the population.  Not to save tens of thousands of lives by sacrificing just one would be the most immoral choice.  Therefore, according to Mill, Utilitarianism does concern itself with moral action and is not simply expediency without regard to ethically motivated conduct.

Mr. Magoo

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Re: If anyone knows John Stuart Mill...
« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2012, 04:00:17 AM »
Mill is pretty easy to understand

wes

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Re: If anyone knows John Stuart Mill...
« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2012, 04:04:44 AM »
No problem dude.  Just don't try to post on the Entertainment board I mod.  You are banned  ;D
Oh shit !!!  ;D

Tapeworm

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Re: If anyone knows John Stuart Mill...
« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2012, 04:10:48 AM »
Mill is pretty easy to understand

But is his a doctrine of right conduct?  Or expedient conduct?  And are they the same thing?

dr.chimps

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Re: If anyone knows John Stuart Mill...
« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2012, 04:11:29 AM »
Could be wrong but I'll take a shot.  The greatest good for the greatest number isn't an ethically oriented doctrine in that it allows immoral acts provided they yield more benefit than harm.  For (a poor) example, say there's a town where people are being murdered and the townsfolk have become so terrified of going outside that commerce is suffering to such an extent that pretty soon there won't be any food in the store and lots of people are going to die of starvation.  If we just grab some poor dude and hang him in the public square, and keep a hush on future murders, then everyone will feel secure again and go back to growing their crops or whatever and the townsfolk will be saved from starvation.  

In another town where there are no murders or terrified people, it's clearly immoral to execute an innocent man.  Just because there's a benefit to our town in calling an innocent guy a murderer and executing him, he's still an innocent man and it's just as crappy a thing to do here as it would be anywhere.  The same applies to misinforming the people about the identity of the killer as well as about the occurence of future murders.  A beneficial upside doesn't turn an immoral act into a moral one.  It's still an immoral act.  Just ask the innocent man.

Mill would (possibly) respond that it would be the greater evil to allow the entire town to perish rather than choose the lesser evil of executing an innocent man and misinforming the population.  Not to save tens of thousands of lives by sacrificing just one would be the most immoral choice.  Therefore, according to Mill, Utilitarianism does concern itself with moral action and is not simply expediency without regard to ethically motivated conduct.
I'd start with this as the crux of your argument/thesis. 'Course, let's wait 'till bomz gets his tricycle revved and arrives with a multi-page post before you hit 'print.'  


Tapeworm

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Re: If anyone knows John Stuart Mill...
« Reply #14 on: January 20, 2012, 04:22:44 AM »
I'd start with this as the crux of your argument/thesis. 'Course, let's wait 'till bomz gets his tricycle revved and arrives with a multi-page post before you hit 'print.'  



Yeah but if I was any good at this stuff I would have stayed in school.  I took the road less graveled, and that has made all the diffidence.

dr.chimps

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Re: If anyone knows John Stuart Mill...
« Reply #15 on: January 20, 2012, 04:29:31 AM »
Yeah but if I was any good at this stuff I would have stayed in school.  I took the road less graveled, and that has made all the diffidence.
Nicely played, Sir! Nicely played.    ;D

Mr Nobody

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Re: If anyone knows John Stuart Mill...
« Reply #16 on: January 20, 2012, 08:57:12 AM »
I got lost reading Walden Pond so I never have found out if Henry went back to society.

dr.chimps

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Re: If anyone knows John Stuart Mill...
« Reply #17 on: January 20, 2012, 10:46:27 AM »
I got lost reading Walden Pond so I never have found out if Henry went back to society.
While writing Walden, Thoreau was never really more than a mile or so from 'civilization.'    ;)

_bruce_

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Re: If anyone knows John Stuart Mill...
« Reply #18 on: January 20, 2012, 11:06:04 AM »


Ronnie is clearly a "unique" person.

"...is mia bockwuast..." Hahahaha
.

240 is Back

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Re: If anyone knows John Stuart Mill...
« Reply #19 on: January 20, 2012, 11:11:55 AM »
In any WYHI thread, John Stuart Mill would hit it.

B_B_C

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Re: If anyone knows John Stuart Mill...
« Reply #20 on: January 20, 2012, 11:45:17 AM »
That's how I feel Wes but unfortunately I can't pass a class with that answer...lol.   Maybe I should just insert some GH15 ramblings for my answer


I'd say its close enough but you are being called to say how the late Mr Mill answered
c

Mr Nobody

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Re: If anyone knows John Stuart Mill...
« Reply #21 on: January 20, 2012, 02:03:26 PM »
While writing Walden, Thoreau was never really more than a mile or so from 'civilization.'    ;)
That SOB lied no more respect for him.

Dr Dutch

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Re: If anyone knows John Stuart Mill...
« Reply #22 on: January 20, 2012, 02:10:24 PM »
Help me out.  I don't understand a fucking word this guy says.

Explain the objection that utilitarianism is a doctrine of expediency. What is Mill's response?

We got a lot of smart people on here so I thought I'd give it a shot.

Thanks
I heard Dexter jackson's PhD philosophy thesis is related to this topic...

tbombz

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Re: If anyone knows John Stuart Mill...
« Reply #23 on: January 20, 2012, 02:15:51 PM »
Could be wrong but I'll take a shot.  The greatest good for the greatest number isn't an ethically oriented doctrine in that it allows immoral acts provided they yield more benefit than harm.  For (a poor) example, say there's a town where people are being murdered and the townsfolk have become so terrified of going outside that commerce is suffering to such an extent that pretty soon there won't be any food in the store and lots of people are going to die of starvation.  If we just grab some poor dude and hang him in the public square, and keep a hush on future murders, then everyone will feel secure again and go back to growing their crops or whatever and the townsfolk will be saved from starvation.  

In another town where there are no murders or terrified people, it's clearly immoral to execute an innocent man.  Just because there's a benefit to our town in calling an innocent guy a murderer and executing him, he's still an innocent man and it's just as crappy a thing to do here as it would be anywhere.  The same applies to misinforming the people about the identity of the killer as well as about the occurence of future murders.  A beneficial upside doesn't turn an immoral act into a moral one.  It's still an immoral act.  Just ask the innocent man.

Mill would (possibly) respond that it would be the greater evil to allow the entire town to perish rather than choose the lesser evil of executing an innocent man and misinforming the population.  Not to save tens of thousands of lives by sacrificing just one would be the most immoral choice.  Therefore, according to Mill, Utilitarianism does concern itself with moral action and is not simply expediency without regard to ethically motivated conduct.

sounds about right

one could argue the value of long run peace of mind vs. short run comfort ... that eventually the towns people would find out an innocent man was executed for their benefit and the guilt/shame/remorse over that would far outweigh what comfort they had experiencced as a result of his execution...      thus the moral action is always the one that, in the long run, results in the greatest good

 ;)

outby43

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Re: If anyone knows John Stuart Mill...
« Reply #24 on: January 20, 2012, 04:30:44 PM »
Could be wrong but I'll take a shot.  The greatest good for the greatest number isn't an ethically oriented doctrine in that it allows immoral acts provided they yield more benefit than harm.  For (a poor) example, say there's a town where people are being murdered and the townsfolk have become so terrified of going outside that commerce is suffering to such an extent that pretty soon there won't be any food in the store and lots of people are going to die of starvation.  If we just grab some poor dude and hang him in the public square, and keep a hush on future murders, then everyone will feel secure again and go back to growing their crops or whatever and the townsfolk will be saved from starvation.  

In another town where there are no murders or terrified people, it's clearly immoral to execute an innocent man.  Just because there's a benefit to our town in calling an innocent guy a murderer and executing him, he's still an innocent man and it's just as crappy a thing to do here as it would be anywhere.  The same applies to misinforming the people about the identity of the killer as well as about the occurence of future murders.  A beneficial upside doesn't turn an immoral act into a moral one.  It's still an immoral act.  Just ask the innocent man.

Mill would (possibly) respond that it would be the greater evil to allow the entire town to perish rather than choose the lesser evil of executing an innocent man and misinforming the population.  Not to save tens of thousands of lives by sacrificing just one would be the most immoral choice.  Therefore, according to Mill, Utilitarianism does concern itself with moral action and is not simply expediency without regard to ethically motivated conduct.

Thanks dude that should help.