Author Topic: Apple's Jobs to Obama: "jobs aren't coming back" to U.S. (Obama is clueless)  (Read 3074 times)

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Apple's Jobs to Obama: "jobs aren't coming back" to U.S.
By CHARLES DUHIGG and KEITH BRADSHER
The New York Times



Monday, January 23, 2012 at 1:00 a.m.


When President Barack Obama joined Silicon Valley's top luminaries for dinner in California last February, each guest was asked to come with a question for the president.

But as Steve Jobs of Apple spoke, Obama interrupted with an inquiry of his own: What would it take to make iPhones in the United States? Not long ago, Apple boasted that its products were made in America. Today, few are. Almost all of the 70 million iPhones, 30 million iPads and 59 million other products Apple sold last year were manufactured overseas.

Why can't that work come home? Obama asked.

Jobs' reply was unambiguous. "Those jobs aren't coming back," he said, according to another dinner guest.

The president's question touched upon a central conviction at Apple. It isn't just that workers are cheaper abroad. Rather, Apple's executives believe the vast scale of overseas factories as well as the flexibility, diligence and industrial skills of foreign workers have so outpaced their U.S. counterparts that "Made in the USA" is no longer a viable option for most Apple products.

Apple has become one of the best-known, most admired and most imitated companies on Earth, in part through an unrelenting mastery of global operations. Last year, it earned over $400,000 in profit per employee, more than Goldman Sachs, Exxon Mobil or Google.

However, what has vexed Obama as well as economists and policy makers is that Apple -- and many of its high-technology peers -- are not nearly as avid in creating U.S. jobs as other famous companies were in their heydays.

Apple employs 43,000 people in the United States and 20,000 overseas, a small fraction of the more than 400,000 U.S. workers at General Motors in the 1950s, or the hundreds of thousands at General Electric in the 1980s. Many more people work for Apple's contractors: An additional 700,000 people engineer, build and assemble iPads, iPhones and Apple's other products. But almost none of them work in the United States. Instead, they work for foreign companies in Asia, Europe and elsewhere, at factories that almost every electronics designer relies upon to build their wares.

"Apple's an example of why it's so hard to create middle-class jobs in the U.S. now," said Jared Bernstein, who until last year was an economic adviser to the White House.

"If it's the pinnacle of capitalism, we should be worried."

But while Apple is far from alone, it offers a window into why the success of some prominent companies has not translated into large numbers of domestic jobs. What's more, the company's decisions pose broader questions about what corporate America owes Americans as the global and national economies are increasingly intertwined.

"Companies once felt an obligation to support American workers, even when it wasn't the best financial choice," said Betsey Stevenson, the chief economist at the Labor Department until last September. "That's disappeared. Profits and efficiency have trumped generosity."

'I WANT A

GLASS SCREEN'

In 2007, a little more than a month before the iPhone was scheduled to appear in stores, Jobs beckoned a handful of lieutenants into an office. For weeks, he had been carrying a prototype of the device in his pocket.

Jobs angrily held up his iPhone, angling it so everyone could see the dozens of tiny scratches marring its plastic screen, according to someone who attended the meeting. He then pulled his keys from his jeans.

People will carry this phone in their pocket, he said. People also carry their keys in their pocket. "I won't sell a product that gets scratched," he said tensely. The only solution was using unscratchable glass instead. "I want a glass screen, and I want it perfect in six weeks."

After one executive left that meeting, he booked a flight to Shenzhen, China. If Jobs wanted perfect, there was nowhere else to go.

For more than two years, the company had been working on a project that presented the same questions at every turn: How do you completely reimagine the cellphone? And how do you design it at the highest quality -- with an unscratchable screen, for instance -- while also ensuring that millions can be manufactured quickly and inexpensively enough to earn a significant profit? The answers, almost every time, were found outside the United States.

In its early days, Apple usually didn't look beyond its own backyard for manufacturing solutions. But by 2004, Apple had largely turned to foreign manufacturing. Guiding that decision was Apple's operations expert, Timothy D. Cook, who replaced Jobs as chief executive last August, six weeks before Jobs' death. Most other U.S. electronics companies had already gone abroad, and Apple, which at the time was struggling, felt it had to grasp every advantage.

In part, Asia was attractive because the semi-skilled workers there were cheaper. But that wasn't driving Apple. For technology companies, the cost of labor is minimal compared with the expense of buying parts and managing supply chains that bring together components and services from hundreds of companies.

For Cook, the focus on Asia "came down to two things," said one former high-ranking Apple executive. Factories in Asia "can scale up and down faster" and "Asian supply chains have surpassed what's in the U.S." The result is that "we can't compete at this point," the executive said.

The impact of such advantages became obvious as soon as Jobs demanded glass screens in 2007.

For years, cellphone makers had avoided using glass because it required precision in cutting and grinding that was extremely difficult to achieve. Apple had already selected a U.S. company, Corning Inc., to manufacture large panes of strengthened glass. But figuring out how to cut those panes into millions of iPhone screens required finding an empty cutting plant, hundreds of pieces of glass to use in experiments and an army of midlevel engineers. It would cost a fortune simply to prepare.

Then a bid for the work arrived from a Chinese factory.

When an Apple team visited, the Chinese plant's owners were already constructing a new wing. "This is in case you give us the contract," the manager said, according to a former Apple executive. The Chinese government had agreed to underwrite costs for numerous industries, and those subsidies had trickled down to the glass-cutting factory. It had a warehouse filled with glass samples available to Apple, free of charge. The owners made engineers available at almost no cost. They had built on-site dormitories so employees would be available 24 hours a day.

The Chinese plant got the job.

"The entire supply chain is in China now," said another former high-ranking Apple executive. "You need a thousand rubber gaskets? That's the factory next door. You need a million screws? That factory is a block away. You need that screw made a little bit different? It will take three hours."

It is difficult to estimate how much more it would cost to build iPhones in the United States. However, various academics and manufacturing analysts estimate that because labor is such a small part of technology manufacturing, paying U.S. wages would add up to $65 to each iPhone's expense. Since Apple's profits are often hundreds of dollars per phone, building domestically, in theory, would still give the company a healthy reward.

But such calculations are, in many respects, meaningless because building the iPhone in the United States would demand much more than hiring Americans -- it would require transforming the national and global economies. Apple executives believe there simply aren't enough U.S. workers with the skills the company needs or factories with sufficient speed and flexibility. Other companies that work with Apple, like Corning, also say they must go abroad.

"Our customers are in Taiwan, Korea, Japan and China," said James B. Flaws, Corning's vice chairman and chief financial officer. "We could make the glass here, and then ship it by boat, but that takes 35 days. Or, we could ship it by air, but that's 10 times as expensive. So we build our glass factories next door to assembly factories, and those are overseas."

INNOVATION'S LOSERS

Toward the end of Obama's dinner last year with Jobs and other Silicon Valley executives, as everyone stood to leave, a crowd of photo seekers formed around the president. A slightly smaller scrum gathered around Jobs. Rumors had spread that his illness had worsened, and some hoped for a photograph with him, perhaps for the last time.

Eventually, the orbits of the men overlapped. "I'm not worried about the country's long-term future," Jobs told Obama, according to one observer. "This country is insanely great. What I'm worried about is that we don't talk enough about solutions."

In the last decade, technological leaps in solar and wind energy, semiconductor fabrication and display technologies have created thousands of jobs. But while many of those industries started in America, much of the employment has occurred abroad.

Companies have closed major facilities in the U.S. to reopen in China. By way of explanation, executives say they are competing with Apple for shareholders. If they cannot rival Apple's growth and profit margins, they won't survive.

The pace of innovation, say executives from a variety of industries, has been quickened by businessmen like Jobs. GM went as long as half a decade between major auto redesigns. Apple, by comparison, has released five iPhones in four years, doubling the devices' speed and memory while dropping the price that some consumers pay.

Before Obama and Jobs said goodbye, the Apple executive pulled an iPhone from his pocket to show off a new application -- a driving game -- with incredibly detailed graphics. The device reflected the soft glow of the room's lights.

The other executives, whose combined worth exceeded $69 billion, jostled for position to glance over his shoulder. The game, everyone agreed, was wonderful.

There wasn't even a tiny scratch on the screen.


http://www.heraldtribune.com/article/20120123/ARTICLE/301239999?template=printart


Soul Crusher

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If obama is so economically illiterate, inept, incompetent, idiotic, and uninformed to even ask that question, isnt that proof alone that this fool has no business w a second term? 

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'Jobs' reply was unambiguous. "Those jobs aren't coming back," he said, according to another dinner guest.'


to be clear - another dinner guest = anonymous?

I just want to be sure you are agreeing with 2nd hand anonymous heresay from a deceased person - from a person selling a book -

yet several women standing in front of a camera accusing Cain of booty calling - that's all nonsense?

HAHAHAHAHHA come on, mannnnnnnnnnnnn

Soul Crusher

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'Jobs' reply was unambiguous. "Those jobs aren't coming back," he said, according to another dinner guest.'


to be clear - another dinner guest = anonymous?

I just want to be sure you are agreeing with 2nd hand anonymous heresay from a deceased person - from a person selling a book -

yet several women standing in front of a camera accusing Cain of booty calling - that's all nonsense?

HAHAHAHAHHA come on, mannnnnnnnnnnnn


You really are a sad sack of shit lately.  You will do anything to defend obama, you fucking love him and lie your ass off about it. 

Just be honest!  Stop your lies and bs. 
   

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You really are a sad sack of shit lately.  You will do anything to defend obama, you fucking love him and lie your ass off about it. 

Just be honest!  Stop your lies and bs. 
 


I'm pointing out your varying standard of proof.

You believed some dude selling a book about ventura.  but you didn't believe women with sworn oaths about Cain.

I'm betting you still believe larry sinclair - who failed 2 polys' - about sex with obama.  right?

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I'm pointing out your varying standard of proof.

You believed some dude selling a book about ventura.  but you didn't believe women with sworn oaths about Cain.

I'm betting you still believe larry sinclair - who failed 2 polys' - about sex with obama.  right?

Yeah - everyone is lying, this never happened.   Got it.

you thug messiah is a genius and can do not wrong.  Got it. 

Vince G, CSN MFT

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Why would Steve Jobs bring jobs back to America when he has Foxconn.  This is the reason why I hate Apple products so much because of shit like this


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxconn


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Ok 3333 I need you to understand this. Please try your hardest to grasp this. When people like myself, 240, Ozmo, Hugo are in conflict with your "reports" it’s not because we are Obama supporters, as we have all denounced Obama for other candidates. This is well known, highly documented and common knowledge at this point. But what we do disagree is what you qualify as "PROOF". Just because some "god knows who source" says some shit doesn’t make it true. And when you get called on it, it’s not because we are siding up to Obama, it’s because your story is weak, full of holes, lacks credibility and for the most part full of total shit without a shred of journalistic integrity to speak of. There is a difference.

We all know you hate Obama, and that’s fine. But your dilute your message when trying to make a point of how bad Obama is but your example is a complete lie and from a "shaky at best” source.

Please son... I’m really hoping you get this and you understand this. When you say Obama called swat on grandmothers. Despite the reports saying otherwise, yet still hold on trying to qualify it any which way you can, that’s what I disagree with. Now of you say “Obama’s stim bill was bad because of XYZ" I would hear you out. But when you say "Obama sucks because he spent $200 mil a day in India" that’s when you lose me and I have to ask for facts to back that up.
Please I'm seriously praying to God that you understand this. It is sad when watching a grown man such as yourself, struggle with disagreements and the source of the disagreement.

Soul Crusher

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Ok 3333 I need you to understand this. Please try your hardest to grasp this. When people like myself, 240, Ozmo, Hugo are in conflict with your "reports" it’s not because we are Obama supporters, as we have all denounced Obama for other candidates. This is well known, highly documented and common knowledge at this point. But what we do disagree is what you qualify as "PROOF". Just because some "god knows who source" says some shit doesn’t make it true. And when you get called on it, it’s not because we are siding up to Obama, it’s because your story is weak, full of holes, lacks credibility and for the most part full of total shit without a shred of journalistic integrity to speak of. There is a difference.

We all know you hate Obama, and that’s fine. But your dilute your message when trying to make a point of how bad Obama is but your example is a complete lie and from a "shaky at best” source.

Please son... I’m really hoping you get this and you understand this. When you say Obama called swat on grandmothers. Despite the reports saying otherwise, yet still hold on trying to qualify it any which way you can, that’s what I disagree with. Now of you say “Obama’s stim bill was bad because of XYZ" I would hear you out. But when you say "Obama sucks because he spent $200 mil a day in India" that’s when you lose me and I have to ask for facts to back that up.
Please I'm seriously praying to God that you understand this. It is sad when watching a grown man such as yourself, struggle with disagreements and the source of the disagreement.



This was in the NYT asshole!   

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This was in the NYT asshole!   

Dear God...
Please tell me you understand what i just posted. Lets start with that.

33333 Do you understand what ive posted above?

Soul Crusher

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Obama sparred with Steve Jobs over outsourcing
By BYRON TAU | 1/21/12 2:38 PM EST





The New York Times reports on a terse exchange that President Obama had with the late Steve Jobs last February over why Apple couldn't produce its products in America:

But as Steven P. Jobs of Apple spoke, President Obama interrupted with an inquiry of his own: what would it take to make iPhones in the United States?

Not long ago, Apple boasted that its products were made in America. Today, few are. Almost all of the 70 million iPhones, 30 million iPads and 59 million other products Apple sold last year were manufactured overseas.

Why can’t that work come home? Mr. Obama asked.
Mr. Jobs’s reply was unambiguous. “Those jobs aren’t coming back,” he said, according to another dinner guest.

It's not the first run-in between the blunt Apple cofounder and the president — Jobs' biography reported that he told Obama that he's "headed for a one-term presidency," partially because of his administration's business policies. According to Walter Isaacson's biography of Jobs, he expressed admiration for Chinese business practices and decried U.S. regulations and labor rules.


http://www.politico.com/politico44/2012/01/obama-spars-with-steve-jobs-over-apple-outsourcing-111751.html


Vince G, CSN MFT

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Obama sparred with Steve Jobs over outsourcing
By BYRON TAU | 1/21/12 2:38 PM EST





The New York Times reports on a terse exchange that President Obama had with the late Steve Jobs last February over why Apple couldn't produce its products in America:

But as Steven P. Jobs of Apple spoke, President Obama interrupted with an inquiry of his own: what would it take to make iPhones in the United States?

Not long ago, Apple boasted that its products were made in America. Today, few are. Almost all of the 70 million iPhones, 30 million iPads and 59 million other products Apple sold last year were manufactured overseas.

Why can’t that work come home? Mr. Obama asked.
Mr. Jobs’s reply was unambiguous. “Those jobs aren’t coming back,” he said, according to another dinner guest.

It's not the first run-in between the blunt Apple cofounder and the president — Jobs' biography reported that he told Obama that he's "headed for a one-term presidency," partially because of his administration's business policies. According to Walter Isaacson's biography of Jobs, he expressed admiration for Chinese business practices and decried U.S. regulations and labor rules.


http://www.politico.com/politico44/2012/01/obama-spars-with-steve-jobs-over-apple-outsourcing-111751.html




Apple supports slave labor that occurs over at Foxconn where their stuff is now made is the reason Obama sparred with Jobs over outsourcing.  Outsourcing your products to people working 17 hour shifts for 31 cents a day not being able to leave the compound isn't the proper way of doing business.....its just wrong
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Soul Crusher

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Did you not read the article? 


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This was in the NYT asshole!   

I can show you a lot from the NYT that a lot of CTers use to support their beliefs.   NYT still accurate?

Soul Crusher

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I can show you a lot from the NYT that a lot of CTers use to support their beliefs.   NYT still accurate?

Lets see - on the one hand we have a record of obama bein g an economic illiterate the likes we have never seen before, and the other Steve Jobs.


You tell me who you believe. 

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wow...this is guy has no hope.. he understood nothing of what i posted above. I thought it was pretty clear

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Lets see - on the one hand we have a record of obama bein g an economic illiterate the likes we have never seen before, and the other Steve Jobs.
You tell me who you believe.  

actually, we have anonymous 2nd hand heresay from a dead man, right?

Did jobs say "Those jobs aren't coming back" on tape?

no.  we don't know if it's true or not.  Could be a complete lie.  Dude is selling a book and using the unproven words of a popular dead guy to do so.  Hmmmmm

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wow...this is guy has no hope.. he understood nothing of what i posted above. I thought it was pretty clear

you actually  summarized it perfectly.  rolling standard of proof. 

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actually, we have anonymous 2nd hand heresay from a dead man, right?

Did jobs say "Those jobs aren't coming back" on tape?

no.  we don't know if it's true or not.  Could be a complete lie.  Dude is selling a book and using the unproven words of a popular dead guy to do so.  Hmmmmm
you kneepader.. how dare you ask for proof!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ITs anti Obama so who gives a shit about the source of the statement and that it cant be proved. Just go with it!!!!!!!!!!

Soul Crusher

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wow...this is guy has no hope.. he understood nothing of what i posted above. I thought it was pretty clear


LOL.  Yeah no hope, got it chief.   Hope and Change buddy. 

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you kneepader.. how dare you ask for proof!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ITs anti Obama so who gives a shit about the source of the statement and that it cant be proved. Just go with it!!!!!!!!!!

Well, a lot of people were at the lunch, so lets see how many contradict this story. 

Just a hint - dont hold your breath waiting for it, because we all know obama is as fucking dumb and economically illiterate as i have told you morons from day 1. 


But go fawn over that idiot signing for the brainwashed liberal blacks at the Apollo.  Yeah real smart. 

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Wow. I thought an esq would understand that, it’s pretty simple. I overestimate your depth.

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Well, a lot of people were at the lunch, so lets see how many contradict this story.  


wait a minute - you expect us to PROVE A NEGATIVE?

You are saying it's on obama to gather witnesses to say "I heard every word of this conversation, and i never heard this sentence' ?

LMAO.... you have zero proof, except for anonymous quotes from a guy selling a book where he is using the words of the top 5 popular people of our generation - who is dead.

unreal.  

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http://www.manufacturingdigital.com/lean/why-does-apple-make-the-iphone-in-china-and-not-the-us



Several electronics manufacturers, in particular Apple, have been criticised for using contractors abroad to produce their products despite concerns over human rights and working conditions. However, a new report from the New York Times reveals the reasons why the maker of the iPhone and iPad chooses to manufacturer away from home.

 

The report is based on interviews from more than three dozen current and former Apple employees and contractors, many of whom wished to remain anonymous. The sources reveal that even though contractors including Foxconn are considerably cheaper than those in the US, other factors including flexibility, assembly speed and the surrounding local supply chain are extremely advantageous.

 

One excerpt details how Steve Jobs was frustrated with the amount of scratches on his prototype iPhone. To a handful of fellow employees Jobs said "I want a glass screen, and I want it perfect in six weeks," a demand which could be met in China, but not in the US.



With a redesigned component, a foreman at a Chinese factory woke-up 8,000 workers, gave them a biscuit and a cup of tea and within half an hour, a 12-hour shift to fit new glass screens had begun. Within 96 hours, the facility was producing more than 10,000 iPhones. "The speed and flexibility is breathtaking," a former executive said. "There's no American plant that can match that."

 

While this passage does little to ease concerns over the unfair conditions contract employees have to work under, it is clear to see why Apple won't manufacturer in the US. However, Foxconn have disputed the above story and Apple refused to comment.

 

Other stand-out figures in the article suggest it would take as long as nine months to find 8,700 industrial engineers to make the iPhone in the US, whereas in China it would take 15 days. Jennifer Rigoni, Apple's Worldwide Supply Demand Manager until 2010 said Foxconn “could hire 3,000 people overnight.”


Even if President Obama wants America's biggest manufacturers to bring more jobs home by offering competitive tax incentives, Apple will still be dependent on China's flexible labour market and comprehensive supply chain to maintain its dominant market position.

http://www.manufacturingdigital.com/lean/why-does-apple-make-the-iphone-in-china-and-not-the-us









Its not just the labor costs. 

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http://www.manufacturingdigital.com/lean/why-does-apple-make-the-iphone-in-china-and-not-the-us



Several electronics manufacturers, in particular Apple, have been criticised for using contractors abroad to produce their products despite concerns over human rights and working conditions. However, a new report from the New York Times reveals the reasons why the maker of the iPhone and iPad chooses to manufacturer away from home.

 

The report is based on interviews from more than three dozen current and former Apple employees and contractors, many of whom wished to remain anonymous. The sources reveal that even though contractors including Foxconn are considerably cheaper than those in the US, other factors including flexibility, assembly speed and the surrounding local supply chain are extremely advantageous.

 

One excerpt details how Steve Jobs was frustrated with the amount of scratches on his prototype iPhone. To a handful of fellow employees Jobs said "I want a glass screen, and I want it perfect in six weeks," a demand which could be met in China, but not in the US.



With a redesigned component, a foreman at a Chinese factory woke-up 8,000 workers, gave them a biscuit and a cup of tea and within half an hour, a 12-hour shift to fit new glass screens had begun. Within 96 hours, the facility was producing more than 10,000 iPhones. "The speed and flexibility is breathtaking," a former executive said. "There's no American plant that can match that."

 

While this passage does little to ease concerns over the unfair conditions contract employees have to work under, it is clear to see why Apple won't manufacturer in the US. However, Foxconn have disputed the above story and Apple refused to comment.

 

Other stand-out figures in the article suggest it would take as long as nine months to find 8,700 industrial engineers to make the iPhone in the US, whereas in China it would take 15 days. Jennifer Rigoni, Apple's Worldwide Supply Demand Manager until 2010 said Foxconn “could hire 3,000 people overnight.”


Even if President Obama wants America's biggest manufacturers to bring more jobs home by offering competitive tax incentives, Apple will still be dependent on China's flexible labour market and comprehensive supply chain to maintain its dominant market position.

http://www.manufacturingdigital.com/lean/why-does-apple-make-the-iphone-in-china-and-not-the-us









Its not just the labor costs. 


You're a dum ass if you actually believe.  There are plenty of engineers here in the U.S and they are widely available along with plenty of labor.  Apple uses foreign labor because its cheap and they don't have to worry about following human rights
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