Author Topic: Obama is attacking Religious Freedom in America (Just like everything else)  (Read 34788 times)

Soul Crusher

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Re: Obama is attacking Religious Freedom in America (Just like everything else)
« Reply #400 on: February 15, 2012, 11:44:53 AM »
Commerce Is the Culture War
Townhall.com ^ | February 15 2012 | David Harsanyi





It's always curious to watch the champions of "choice" decide what choices to champion and what choices to dismiss for the common good.


If you believe that the Obama administration's decision to force Catholic institutions to pay for and offer (directly or indirectly) products the church finds morally objectionable is an assault on religious freedom and free speech, you probably also realize the importance of consumer choice. After all, when government dictates what people buy and sell, it dictates much more.

First, let's ponder the precedent: Obama argues that government not only is empowered to force every adult to purchase a product in a marketplace (in this case, health insurance) but also can demand that providers sell certain products in this market (in this case, contraception). Washington, then, has the ability to direct both seller and buyer if it deems such actions beneficial for society.

And, needless to say, when Democrats deem something beneficial for society, they have a strong tendency to start treating this something as if it were a "right." As it stands, you have the "right" to a free condom, and should you forget or neglect or utilize this right, you have the right to an abortion that is partially funded by fungible taxpayer dollars. (If, however, a couple keep a child, they have no right to use their tax dollars to shop for a school outside their own neighborhood or, apparently, find a health care plan that comports with their values.)

As many of you know, there are "negative rights," as in my right to be protected from harm if I try to buy, say, birth control. And there are also "positive rights," as in my right to have birth control provided for me. In the eyes of many liberals, condoms, health care, salubrious foods, housing, etc., should, if there is any decency in this nation, be positive rights. Thus, anyone failing to provide these things is really just "denying" people access.

So, the argument goes, by failing to offer birth control, the Catholic Church is actually preventing access to reproductive health care.

A neat trick.

If we need an example of how limiting consumer choice can ignite social, economic and quality issues, we can turn to the similar one-size-fits-all debacle of "rights" called public education. Yes, there are Philistines like me who believe that exposing schools to market forces would spur innovation and better outcomes. Surely, there is little doubt that if we extricated schools from state monopolies and transformed parents into consumers, the many arguments about God, history, politics and Darwinism -- or whateverism is grating against your sensibilities -- would be fought in the comment sections of websites rather than in classrooms.

Don't get me wrong; the left believes that parents should be free to teach their kids whatever they'd like, just not in the schools they happen to pay for.

Health care is similarly destined, no doubt. The intent of Democrats is to create a system with uniform coverage. So what we will be left with is a bunch of highly regulated, interchangeable insurance companies offering virtually identical plans with no incentive for innovation and absolutely no reason to tailor products or plans to appeal to the many diverse groups in this country -- religious or otherwise.

They have one consumer to please and one set of morals to worry about. The state. If you don't like your plan, switch to another one just like it. If you can't afford to leave your employer's plan, then join one of those fabricated exchanges run by government.

If you've got some religious beef, beg for an accommodation.

If you don't like the answer, well, hey, where you gonna go?

It's like a theocracy ... without the God part.

















Straw Man

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Re: Obama is attacking Religious Freedom in America (Just like everything else)
« Reply #401 on: February 15, 2012, 12:46:40 PM »
LOL @ war on Religious Freedom

Catholic charities got ~ 62% of their funding from US taxpayers (most of whom are presumably not even Catholic)

Why doesn't the Catholic Church just refuse that money as a matter of principle

BTW - last time I checked churches don't pay any taxes

I wish the government would persecute me like that

best quote in this clip - "you've confused a war on your religion with not always getting everything you want"

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-february-13-2012/the-vagina-ideologues---sean-hannity-s-holy-sausage-fest

Soul Crusher

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Re: Obama is attacking Religious Freedom in America (Just like everything else)
« Reply #402 on: February 15, 2012, 12:50:45 PM »
Why should any employer on any level be forced to provide benefits at levels determined by the Govt.?

I am bald with a shaved head.   Lets say I get enough other bald guys together to lobby obama for inclusion of free hair transplants in health insurance.   We give thugbama a donation of 50k and he orders Sebellius to mandate all carriers offer free hair transplants to all policy holders.   As a result all premiuims would go up say 100 a month.   

Would you be ok with that? 

Straw Man

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Re: Obama is attacking Religious Freedom in America (Just like everything else)
« Reply #403 on: February 15, 2012, 12:55:20 PM »
Why should any employer on any level be forced to provide benefits at levels determined by the Govt.?

I am bald with a shaved head.   Lets say I get enough other bald guys together to lobby obama for inclusion of free hair transplants in health insurance.   We give thugbama a donation of 50k and he orders Sebellius to mandate all carriers offer free hair transplants to all policy holders.   As a result all premiuims would go up say 100 a month.   

Would you be ok with that? 

contraception is basic health care and the church is being gradious hypocrites since 98% of Catholic women use contraception

I'd be fine if they didn't want to provide it as part of their healthcare coverage (and I'm sure you're aware that most already do and this is a big phony stink up about nothing) if they also refused to take any federal dollars and give up their tax exempt status

I'd make that compromise

Soul Crusher

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Re: Obama is attacking Religious Freedom in America (Just like everything else)
« Reply #404 on: February 15, 2012, 12:57:06 PM »
contraception is basic health care and the church is being gradious hypocrites since 98% of Catholic women use contraception

I'd be fine if they didn't want to provide it as part of their healthcare coverage (and I'm sure you're aware that most already do and this is a big phony stink up about nothing) if they also refused to take any federal dollars and give up their tax exempt status

I'd make that compromise


Basic health care?   Huh????   Insurance is supposed to be for uncommon events and those not normally planned for. 


should tooth paste be included?   

Straw Man

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Re: Obama is attacking Religious Freedom in America (Just like everything else)
« Reply #405 on: February 15, 2012, 01:03:18 PM »

Basic health care?   Huh????   Insurance is supposed to be for uncommon events and those not normally planned for. 


should tooth paste be included?   

yep - contraception is basic health care just like insurance covers annual physicals, and other types of things

btw - almost all dental plans have free teeth cleaning and when you go the dentist or hygenist often gives you a toothbrush, floss and toothpaste

let me guess ...... you never go to the dentist so this is something you've never heard of either

Soul Crusher

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Re: Obama is attacking Religious Freedom in America (Just like everything else)
« Reply #406 on: February 15, 2012, 01:06:45 PM »
yep - contraception is basic health care just like insurance covers annual physicals, and other types of things

btw - almost all dental plans have free teeth cleaning and when you go the dentist or hygenist often gives you a toothbrush, floss and toothpaste

let me guess ...... you never go to the dentist so this is something you've never heard of either

My point is that the govt should not force employers, regardless of religion or otherwise, to be mandated to offer mandatory minimum levels of benefit levels.   Most small businesses simply are going to find it far cheaper to pay the 2k fine and just dump the employees medical insurance once the premiuims skyrocket to beyond the point they can afford it.   

Straw Man

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Re: Obama is attacking Religious Freedom in America (Just like everything else)
« Reply #407 on: February 15, 2012, 01:14:08 PM »
My point is that the govt should not force employers, regardless of religion or otherwise, to be mandated to offer mandatory minimum levels of benefit levels.   Most small businesses simply are going to find it far cheaper to pay the 2k fine and just dump the employees medical insurance once the premiuims skyrocket to beyond the point they can afford it.   

government regulates commerce of all kinds

get over it or move to Somolia where you can enjoy freedom from all government regulations

Soul Crusher

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Re: Obama is attacking Religious Freedom in America (Just like everything else)
« Reply #408 on: February 15, 2012, 01:16:57 PM »
government regulates commerce of all kinds

get over it or move to Somolia where you can enjoy freedom from all government regulations


LOL.  I can't wait till we get a far RW president one day who appoints a NAZI HHS director who starts bossing you around how you leftists react.   

See there is where you communists are so short sighted.  You approve of this shit because its thugbama.  But wait - when we get a far RW person in office and they go even further because they have the power under this mess - you pieces of garbe on the left are going to cry bloody murder

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Re: Obama is attacking Religious Freedom in America (Just like everything else)
« Reply #409 on: February 15, 2012, 01:41:33 PM »
Real Clear Politics Video
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February 15, 2012 Sebelius: "I Did Not Speak To The Catholic Bishops"

Testifying before the Senate Finance Committee, Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius said she "did not speak to the Catholic bishops" before the administration announced a change in its rule on contraception coverage on Friday. When asked by Sen. Orrin Hatch (R-Utah) if anyone in the administration talked with the bishops before the new rule was announced, Sebelius said "the president has spoken to the bishops on several occasions" but said she didn't know if he discussed the change in the rule with them.


Straw Man

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Re: Obama is attacking Religious Freedom in America (Just like everything else)
« Reply #410 on: February 15, 2012, 01:43:38 PM »

LOL.  I can't wait till we get a far RW president one day who appoints a NAZI HHS director who starts bossing you around how you leftists react.   

See there is where you communists are so short sighted.  You approve of this shit because its thugbama.  But wait - when we get a far RW person in office and they go even further because they have the power under this mess - you pieces of garbe on the left are going to cry bloody murder

yeah, remember when Hitler did health care reform in Germany

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-february-13-2012/the-vagina-ideologues---sean-hannity-s-holy-sausage-fest

Straw Man

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Re: Obama is attacking Religious Freedom in America (Just like everything else)
« Reply #411 on: February 15, 2012, 01:47:32 PM »
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February 15, 2012 Sebelius: "I Did Not Speak To The Catholic Bishops"

Testifying before the Senate Finance Committee, Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius said she "did not speak to the Catholic bishops" before the administration announced a change in its rule on contraception coverage on Friday. When asked by Sen. Orrin Hatch (R-Utah) if anyone in the administration talked with the bishops before the new rule was announced, Sebelius said "the president has spoken to the bishops on several occasions" but said she didn't know if he discussed the change in the rule with them.

who cares if she spoke to them or not

they are an international ring of pederasts based in a foreign country (in fact they are a city-state) and we shouldn't be giving them a fucking penny and we should be taxing them and telling them what they can and cannot do in OUR country

Soul Crusher

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Re: Obama is attacking Religious Freedom in America (Just like everything else)
« Reply #412 on: February 15, 2012, 01:48:53 PM »
who cares if she spoke to them or not

they are an international ring of pederasts based in a foreign country (in fact they are a city-state) and we shouldn't be giving them a fucking penny and we should be taxing them and telling them what they can and cannot do in OUR country

Because obama specifically promised the Bishop otherwise.   

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Re: Obama is attacking Religious Freedom in America (Just like everything else)
« Reply #413 on: February 15, 2012, 01:52:07 PM »
Because obama specifically promised the Bishop otherwise.   

if true then tough titties for them

I couldn't give less of a shit

Soul Crusher

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Re: Obama is attacking Religious Freedom in America (Just like everything else)
« Reply #414 on: February 15, 2012, 01:53:13 PM »
if true then tough titties for them

I couldn't give less of a shit

Of course not - you dont give a damn about honesty or decency so long as your messiahs are pursuing a communist agenda. 


Soul Crusher

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Re: Obama is attacking Religious Freedom in America (Just like everything else)
« Reply #415 on: February 15, 2012, 01:55:08 PM »
Birth-Control Mandate: Unconstitutional and Illegal (Analysis by 2 Former Justice Dept Off)
WSJ ^ | February 16, 2012 | DAVID B. RIVKIN JR. AND EDWARD WHELAN




Last Friday, the White House announced that it would revise the controversial ObamaCare birth-control mandate to address religious-liberty concerns. Its proposed modifications are a farce.

The Department of Health and Human Services would still require employers with religious objections to select an insurance company to provide contraceptives and drugs that induce abortions to its employees. The employers would pay for the drugs through higher premiums. For those employers that self-insure, like the Archdiocese of Washington, the farce is even more blatant.

The birth-control coverage mandate violates the First Amendment's bar against the "free exercise" of religion. But it also violates the Religious Freedom Restoration Act. That statute, passed unanimously by the House of Representatives and by a 97-3 vote in the Senate, was signed into law by President Bill Clinton in 1993. It was enacted in response to a 1990 Supreme Court opinion, Employment Division v. Smith.

That case limited the protections available under the First Amendment's guarantee of free exercise of religion to those government actions that explicitly targeted religious practices, by subjecting them to difficult-to-satisfy strict judicial scrutiny. Other governmental actions, even if burdening religious activities, were held subject to a more deferential test.

The 1993 law restored the same protections of religious freedom that had been understood to exist pre-Smith. The Religious Freedom Restoration Act states that the federal government may "substantially burden" a person's "exercise of religion" only if it demonstrates that application of the burden to the person "is in furtherance of a compelling governmental interest" and "is the least restrictive means of furthering" that interest.

The law also provides that any later statutory override of its protections must be explicit. But there is nothing in the ObamaCare legislation that explicitly or even implicitly overrides the Religious Freedom Restoration Act.


(Excerpt) Read more at online.wsj.com ...

blacken700

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Re: Obama is attacking Religious Freedom in America (Just like everything else)
« Reply #416 on: February 15, 2012, 01:56:03 PM »
Because obama specifically promised the Bishop otherwise.   

you were there or is that from one of your right wing rags yuo always post from ::)

blacken700

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Re: Obama is attacking Religious Freedom in America (Just like everything else)
« Reply #417 on: February 15, 2012, 01:58:33 PM »
more fake outrage :D,run some decent canidates and you won't have to play these games ::)

Straw Man

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Re: Obama is attacking Religious Freedom in America (Just like everything else)
« Reply #418 on: February 15, 2012, 01:58:39 PM »
Of course not - you dont give a damn about honesty or decency so long as your messiahs are pursuing a communist agenda. 

yes, requiring insurance companies to provide contraception = communism

Many catholic universities and hospital already offer contraception

I guess they must be imposing communism on themselves (sneaky bastards beat Obama to it already)




Soul Crusher

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Re: Obama is attacking Religious Freedom in America (Just like everything else)
« Reply #419 on: February 15, 2012, 02:07:02 PM »
Can Obama Order Grocers to Give Away Bread
Townhall.com ^ | February 15, 2012 | Terry Jeffrey





In October 2009, I published a column titled, "Can Obama and Congress Order You to Buy Broccoli?"

Now I need to ask a follow-up: Can Obama order grocers to give away bread?

I wrote the broccoli column after Sen. Orrin Hatch raised serious questions in the Senate Finance Committee about the constitutionality of President Obama's proposal to force people to buy health insurance.

"If we have the power simply to order Americans to buy certain products, why did we need a cash-for-clunkers program or the upcoming program providing rebates for purchasing energy appliances?" Hatch said. "We could simply require Americans to buy certain cars, dishwashers or refrigerators."

Inspired by Hatch's argument, I wrote in my column: "This is not a question about nutrition. It is not a question about whether broccoli is good for you or about the relative merits of broccoli versus other foods. It is a question about the constitutional limits on the power of the federal government. It is a question about freedom.

"Can President Obama and Congress enact legislation that orders Americans to buy health insurance?" I asked. "They might as well order Americans to buy broccoli. They have no legitimate authority to do either."

I later interviewed Hatch about the issue. "If that is held constitutional -- for them to be able to tell us we have to purchase health insurance -- then there is literally nothing that the federal government can't force us to do" Hatch said. "Nothing."

Orrin Hatch spoke prophetically. Yet Obama's escalating attacks on American liberty in the post-Obamacare era are nonetheless shocking -- for they reveal a president full of zeal in trampling God-given rights.

Last August, Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius issued a proposed regulation that would force virtually all health care plans to cover sterilizations and all Food and Drug Administration-approved contraceptives, including those that cause abortion.

Because Obamacare mandates that all Americans must purchase health insurance, this regulation would require Catholics -- whose church teaches that sterilization, artificial contraception and abortion are wrong -- to act against the teachings of their faith.

Obama was unambiguously attacking the First Amendment right to the free exercise of religion.

America's Catholic bishops quickly denounced Obama's regulation as "an unprecedented attack on religious liberty." They called on Catholics to speak out against it and urged the administration to rescind it in its entirety.

On Jan. 20, Sebelius announced that the final regulation would take effect for individuals and business owners this Aug. 1, and for Catholic hospitals, universities and charities next Aug. 1. Thus, the government was giving Catholic individuals and business owners seven months, and Catholic institutions 19, to submit to a federal edict that they act against their faith.

The bishops responded by asking their priests to read letters from the pulpit at Sunday masses. Most of these letters boldly stated: "We cannot -- we will not -- comply with this unjust law."

On Friday, Obama announced what he called a "solution:" The federal government will still order all health insurance plans to cover sterilizations, contraceptives and abortifacients without any fees or co-pay. But insurance plans covering workers at religious institutions that object to these services will be required to provide sterilizations, contraceptives and abortifacients to those workers "free of charge."

Thus, Obama is still ordering Catholic institutions to provide insurance plans that cover sterilizations, contraceptives and abortifacients. And he is still ordering Catholic employees, private business owners, and private insurers to buy and/or provide these things, even if means they must act against their faith.

Obama's "solution" escalates his attack on freedom: He is now ordering private companies (in this case insurers) to provide a product for free -- even if they find it morally objectionable.

If Obama had the constitutional authority to tell insurance companies they must provide contraceptives and abortifacients for free, he could also tell grocers they must provide meat and bread for free.

He could tell doctors they must provide abortions for free and drug companies they must manufacture and distribute contraceptives for free.

Of course, Obama won't order these last two things because he wants to retain a national supply of doctors who will do abortions and drug companies that will manufacture contraceptives. His acts of tyranny are strategically targeted.

In a powerful column published last month, Roman Catholic Archbishop Jose Gomez of Los Angeles pointed out that the Catholic Church is unique among American religious groups in its teaching against artificial contraception.

"So it is hard to escape the conclusion that the government is singling out the church with this new mandate," he wrote.

"But the issues here go far beyond contraception and far beyond the liberties of the Catholic Church," the archbishop concluded. "They go to the heart of our national identity and our historic understanding of our democratic form of government."

Today, Obama is especially attacking the liberty of Catholics. But, in doing so, he has attacked liberty itself.


blacken700

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Re: Obama is attacking Religious Freedom in America (Just like everything else)
« Reply #420 on: February 15, 2012, 02:10:45 PM »
where do you find this retarded shit to copy and paste  :o

Soul Crusher

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Re: Obama is attacking Religious Freedom in America (Just like everything else)
« Reply #421 on: February 15, 2012, 02:12:20 PM »
where do you find this retarded shit to copy and paste  :o

Why is it retarded?  Using the justification for free birthcontrol - why cant thugghettopofcommietrait ormaobama order gorcers to give away FREE food? 

blacken700

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Re: Obama is attacking Religious Freedom in America (Just like everything else)
« Reply #422 on: February 15, 2012, 02:16:41 PM »
it's no wonder you have the canidates you have,you deserve everything you get :D

Soul Crusher

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Re: Obama is attacking Religious Freedom in America (Just like everything else)
« Reply #423 on: February 15, 2012, 02:17:56 PM »
it's no wonder you have the canidates you have,you deserve everything you get :D

You cant formulate a substantive difference correct?   

blacken700

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Re: Obama is attacking Religious Freedom in America (Just like everything else)
« Reply #424 on: February 15, 2012, 02:21:05 PM »
you post so much shit i don't think you read most of it,some of the shit makes you look,well, just plain dumb