High creatinine & low eGFR numbers on bloodwork = KIDNEY FAILURE IMMINENT?

[randy841]

Blood Work completed Jan 27th/12

       Results                    Reference range
Creatinine 126                       60-110 umol/L (outside normal range)
eGFR 57                             >=60. mL/min/1.73**2   (outside normal range)
BUN - ratio not indicated
Cholesterol 6.45 (outside normal range)
Triglycerides 1.51
HDL Cholesterol 0.55 (outside normal range)
LDL Cholesterol calc 5.21
TC/HDL-C RATIO 11.7
Vitamin B12 721 (sufficiency > 220 pmol/L)
Ferritin 34 (Iron stores are near depleted)
Sodium 140
Potassium 4.8
Chloride 103
Alkaline Phosphatase 89
CK 937 (reference range <225 U/L) (outside normal range)
ALT 49 (range <46 U/L) (outside normal range)
sTSH 20.47 (range 0.35 - 5.00 mIU/L) (outside normal range)
           Doc increased T4 to 100mcg ed right away following blood work. Hypothyroidism noted by  
           endocrinologist on 1st cycle April 2011. Started with 50mcg then moved to 75mcg a few
           months later.
T4 Free 17
Free T4 5.6
Prostate specific As 1.02

HEMATOLOGY
Hemoglobin 174 g/L (outside normal range)
Hematocrit 0.52      (outside normal range)
RBC Indices  MCV 85 (outside normal range)
                 MCH 29
                 MCHC 338
RDW 14.8
WBC 8.4
Platelets 327
MPV 9.4
Differential WBC's
          Neutrophils 4.12
          Lymphocytes 3.19
          Monocytes 0.59
          Eosinophils 0.42 (outside normal range)
          Basophils 0.08

URINALYSIS
Glucose negative
Bilirubin neg
Ketones neg
S.G.  1.015  (range 1.005-1.030)
Blood neg
pH 6.5 (5.0-8.0) - reason for severe joint pain in knees?  
Protein neg <0.4 g/L
UBG 3.2 (3.2 - 16 umol/L)
Nitrite neg
Leukocyte neg


Note says
Consistent with moderate chronic kidney disease if result confirmed by repeat measurement, with persistence for 3 months or more.

2nd cycle
Been on cycle for almost 1/2 a year
Test/Eq + added in Tren a few backs + creatine [CUT OFF AS OF Feb 1st - may do same with cycle] 10grams ed (off 5 grams) + 75mcg T4 ed (upped to 100mcg ed - sTSH very high @20.47 Reference range 0.35-5.00 mIU/L )

Test 400mg every 4/5th day
Eq    250mg every 4/5th day
Dbol - intermittently twice. Once in Sept 20-30mg ed for 6 wks and Nov (20-40mg for a few weeks only workout days)
Tren E added recently 200mg every 7 days

For the past 2 months Test/Eq/Tren E injected every 7th day

Diet - vegetarian - protein primarily lentils, cheese, milk, and whey

History - no problems ever
No drinking (only occasionally on 1st cycle not this - not even once)
No recreational drugs of any kind (never)
No cigarettes (never)
Aspirin once in a while
Hydroxycut before workout (on days only)

Bodyweight
mid to high range 235-240lb
(high 248lb - low 231lb on cycle)

[qbkilla]

lol i think your fine.  im no expert but i had a kidney scare of my own.  creatinine should be higher in bodybuilders,,,yours looks just outside the range,,,i guess your not in the usa? i dont know why they read it like that...its usually 1.0 to 1.5 ish in bigger guys,,,they must measure yours in diff units but that Egfr all that is is them estimating your gfr based on your creatinine,,,its not even a seperate test,,,so its the same number which is stupid they give it like this.  so one thing came back a bit out of range, your creatinine,,,and they used that to estimate your egfr and this does not take into account that you are massive human at 230 plus LBs and you workout and im sure unless your a fatass have alot more muscle,,,your creatinine is going to be high,,,suprised not higher than that. i would drop the creatine,,,it is worthless and can lead to kidney problems.  i had way more fucked up egfr estimate than you so i got scared and got my true GFR on a 24 hour urine test and its fine,,,a year later on double the dose my creatinine is fine too,,,it fluctuates.

so from what i know from research and my own scare i would say if your scared to death get a kidney test that actually is worth a damn and not a cheap little CBC that doesnt take into account how big you are,,,a 24 hour urine test,,,and im 99.9999% sure it will come back fine.  i even had a nuclear test done on my kidneys where they watchd them and they were normal with a way more out of range creatinine than yours,,,and i weigh 195 your 40lbs more.

wouldn't be worried at all drop the creatine and add more hormones,,but do watch your sodium,,,everyone should

[randy841]

lol i think your fine.  im no expert but i had a kidney scare of my own.  creatinine should be higher in bodybuilders,,,yours looks just outside the range,,,i guess your not in the usa? i dont know why they read it like that...its usually 1.0 to 1.5 ish in bigger guys,,,they must measure yours in diff units but that Egfr all that is is them estimating your gfr based on your creatinine,,,its not even a seperate test,,,so its the same number which is stupid they give it like this.  so one thing came back a bit out of range, your creatinine,,,and they used that to estimate your egfr and this does not take into account that you are massive human at 230 plus LBs and you workout and im sure unless your a fatass have alot more muscle,,,your creatinine is going to be high,,,suprised not higher than that. i would drop the creatine,,,it is worthless and can lead to kidney problems.  i had way more fucked up egfr estimate than you so i got scared and got my true GFR on a 24 hour urine test and its fine,,,a year later on double the dose my creatinine is fine too,,,it fluctuates.

so from what i know from research and my own scare i would say if your scared to death get a kidney test that actually is worth a damn and not a cheap little CBC that doesnt take into account how big you are,,,a 24 hour urine test,,,and im 99.9999% sure it will come back fine.  i even had a nuclear test done on my kidneys where they watchd them and they were normal with a way more out of range creatinine than yours,,,and i weigh 195 your 40lbs more.

wouldn't be worried at all drop the creatine and add more hormones,,but do watch your sodium,,,everyone should

That sounds reassuring.

The doctor took a very inquisitorial approach. Almost scary to hear it.   Never had another medical problem in my life - other than being diagnosed with hypothyroidism last year. Doctor asked whether i was a heavy drinker. The last 5 months + not one drink, except two cookies baked in brandy. Also said 'that i weigh too much' - even after i told him i workout very heavily. Wants to refer me to a dietician. I am not fat by any means. Have been working out over a decade. Told him about the creatine usage, and not the 2nd cycle.

Now booked with "general internal medicine" at a hospital for the liver, kidney, and thyroid checkup. Biopsy? Ultrasound?  Not sure.  

"i guess your not in the usa?"
No, Canada.

Yes, the numbers use a different measurement for equivalent ranges.

"its usually 1.0 to 1.5 ish in bigger guys"
Yes, the research the last 24 hours confirms that. Us heavy weightlifters/BBs are 5% who fall out of the 95% range. The latter of whom who fall within the standard deviation on the reference ranges on the blood work.

"i would drop the creatine"
I have right away following the test results as of Feb 1st. Everything points to creatine [and Tren (likely not since only 4 shots at 200mg each since January 4th)] in raising creatinine levels. I have no meat or fish of any type in my diet, except eggs.

Furthermore, research indicates abnormalities can be caused from dehydration and a heavy workout the night before, which can skew the numbers. Hope that's the case.

"get a kidney test ... a 24 hour urine test"
I will request those. Thanks.

Going back in 2 weeks to test TSH to follow up if increased T4 dosage (at 100mcg ed) assisting.

[randy841]

       Results                    Reference range
Creatinine 126                       60-110 umol/L (outside normal range)
eGFR 57                             >=60. mL/min/1.73**2   (outside normal range)

Creatinine converted to mg/dl:

126umol/L = 1.43mg/dl

[randy841]

Estimated Creatinine Clearance
Calculated from Age, Sex
and Serum Creatinine of 126.

Calculated per 70kg male. My weight 106.82kg

Hence, the following calculation is skewed according to my weight falling outside of the mean in this biochemistry formula.
Creatinine Clearance (mL/min): 80.60
Creatinine Clearance (mL/sec): 1.34

[chess315]

these threads pop up all the time every where  every month there is someone thinking there kindeys are failing and ends up there fine. Kidney are nothing to joke around with though but them test always come back like that.

[Benoitlapierre]

if creatine high ,, go off cycle a while ,, and you be fine ,,

 and stay away of painkiller

[notsureifsrs]

Furthermore, research indicates abnormalities can be caused from dehydration and a heavy workout the night before, which can skew the numbers. Hope that's the case.

Why do you even bother getting a BW day after working out , hell we are talking just several hours apart...

Did you feel anything? any pain? anything with your body that doesn't seem normal?

[qbkilla]

after looking at that conversion 1.4 not really high,,,thats what i would suspect for bbers....i think mine was 1.7 then 1.9 then 1.3 then a year later after running a ton of tren it was 1.0,,,lol,,,,the 24 hour urine test showed creatiine clearance a real one,,a true one,,,not an Egfr of 91 i think it was,,,when the stupid estimate based on creatinine was like 40s and said i had kidney failure.  i think u got nothing to worry about but just be safe but i cant see you having any kidney problems at all your creatinine is not that high i thought the range for labcorp went up to 1.5

[gatorr]

Your cholesterol is high get a script for Crestor or something similiar. Your RBC and hemocrat are due to eq use. I ran 600 mg per week last year and my number was 189 the doc told me i was at a risk for stroke. 2 months later after stopping it was back to 140. Iam also in Canada and blood work is free so i get it done every 4 months. My cholesterol was 7.5 before meds its now 2.9. Anything under 4 is good. Dont take chances with you health. Hows the bp?

[randy841]

if creatine high ,, go off cycle a while ,, and you be fine ,,

 and stay away of painkiller

For high creatinine #'s i have removed the creatine monohydrate.

Wanted to finish the cycle by end of February Test/Eq/Tren. If i remove the latter two (eq/tren), to preserve gains, can i cruise on very low dosages of Test while awaiting testing? Anyone try this to lower creatinine levels?

[randy841]

Why do you even bother getting a BW day after working out , hell we are talking just several hours apart...

Did you feel anything? any pain? anything with your body that doesn't seem normal?

36 hours prior to BW - no cardio or workout was completed. Plus fasted for just under 12 hours.

Pain wise - severe cramping, muscle spasms in the abdominal region are ongoing especially since addition of Creatine Monohydrate. To offset - took potassium, magnesium, zinc, & taurine (with orange juice). The body locking up was present prior to addition of CM -- even just on Test alone in the first cycle. However, creatine took it to the next level. No pain around the kidney area. Minor pain just above the hip always there due to the pumps that occur in the lower back.

However, there does seem to be minor pain around the liver. More conscious of the latter since visit to the doctor. Pain occurs just under the right-side bottom of the rib cage. Debilitating cramps/spasms occur in/and around the same spots in the abdominal cavity - so there may be some confusion on my part there possibly.

[randy841]

after looking at that conversion 1.4 not really high,,,thats what i would suspect for bbers....i think mine was 1.7 then 1.9 then 1.3 then a year later after running a ton of tren it was 1.0,,,lol,,,,the 24 hour urine test showed creatiine clearance a real one,,a true one,,,not an Egfr of 91 i think it was,,,when the stupid estimate based on creatinine was like 40s and said i had kidney failure.  i think u got nothing to worry about but just be safe but i cant see you having any kidney problems at all your creatinine is not that high i thought the range for labcorp went up to 1.5

Killa, i will definitely request the 24 hour urine test to remove any doubt. My last shot of Test/Eq/Tren was January 28th - total 850mg. Booked for Feb 17th with internal medicine. Will let my body clear out (21 days total) in the meanwhile - see if it makes a difference to the #'s.

Before the test(s) - did you go off everything for a while?  

Was thinking about JUST cruising on test - will (possibly) fore go that too.

"Labcorp" - I think the cutoff reference ranges by different labs all have some variation. So they add different meaning to the same #'s. I choose CML here always.

[randy841]

Your cholesterol is high get a script for Crestor or something similiar. Your RBC and hemocrat are due to eq use. I ran 600 mg per week last year and my number was 189 the doc told me i was at a risk for stroke. 2 months later after stopping it was back to 140. Iam also in Canada and blood work is free so i get it done every 4 months. My cholesterol was 7.5 before meds its now 2.9. Anything under 4 is good. Dont take chances with you health. Hows the bp?

I have added Niacin at 500mg ed in the meanwhile pending further testing + fish oil to negate the  effects of the hormones on cholesterol. 1st cycle, until addition of Anavar (20mg ed), the cholesterol #'s were not affected.

BP - was at times slightly elevated until around December - after the 2nd time throwing in Dbol (only workout days) - it stayed moderately above average thereafter for a few weeks. Some days i would note a lot of variation though - from perfect to elevated by the evening. That is when i went from every 4th (sometimes e5th day) shots to once a week mid December up until now - even with the addition of 200mg Tren E weekly.

BTW, part of the reason i took aspirin about once a week was to thin out the blood.

Do blood donations work well in reducing RBC count?

[randy841]

these threads pop up all the time every where  every month there is someone thinking there kindeys are failing and ends up there fine. Kidney are nothing to joke around with though but them test always come back like that.

Yes, i expected the results to be off. However the explanation given by the doctor suggested implicitly that i was 'knockin' on hells door'.  He knows of my 1st cycle, as well as the endocrinologist. He likely already knows - i suspect, i'm doing the same again.

Nevertheless, none of us should take our health lightly. The biggest toll hormones take is on our cardiovascular health.

[gatorr]

Yes that is what my doc suggested but i never did as i went off the eq.

[qbkilla]

i never dropped my dose and my creatine went down,,,and now im on more gear than ever and its even lower.  i would drop the creatine though,,,,it does jack shit and it can't be good for kidneys,,,,creatine is what high school punks use to add 5lbs of bloat

[randy841]

Yes that is what my doc suggested but i never did as i went off the eq.

ok ...

I suppose the addition of Tren really took it up a notch.

Plan was to overlap the Eq for a few weeks and then drop it, and continue with Test/Tren only. Anecdotally, Tren i believe is known to do a number on the RBC count too.

[randy841]

i never dropped my dose and my creatine went down,,,and now im on more gear than ever and its even lower.  i would drop the creatine though,,,,it does jack shit and it can't be good for kidneys,,,,creatine is what high school punks use to add 5lbs of bloat

Creatine - i have dropped right away following the blood work results.

I am at crossroads, that's what i really want to do -- stay on. And not increase dosage at this time, as i planned to with Tren E (up to 800mg & dropping Test in half weekly to 400mg).

[randy841]

How does one lower hemoglobin numbers while on?

Taking into account the bloodwork history above - hemoglobin remains a concern, says the endocrinologist.

On e7th day
Test 125mg
Deca 500mg

Been on cycle(s) 11 months July 26/12

[thelamefalsehood]

man the creatinine numbers shouldnt be your top worry, they are ok.

your cholesterol is out of whack, both the good and bad one

btw, youll know your kidneys are gone when theres protein in the urine

so, other than cholesterol, all looks ok.

is your diet clean?

I would imagine almost anyone running AAS will have protein spillage in the urine. I would almost bet any hard training athlete that carries an above average amount of muscle has protein in the urine. You got to remember, all those blood panels are built for the average 170-180 pound sedentary "normal" person. An individual with a large amount of muscle and running AAS numbers will always be skewed.

[qbkilla]

bro did yoru creatine ever go down or did you get more advanced tests on kidneys? im assuming u are fine

i had kidney scare and this is what i learned reading the boards and stuff...

creatinine,,,it can go up,,,as high as 1.8,,if it goes higher than that maybe worry but our creatinine will be high

now protein in urine,,,that is a problem,,,protein should not be in uring no matter if you run tren tren all year long, that is a bad sign

high bun, high creatine, do not worry if below 2.0

protein in urine, may need more tests done

[thelamefalsehood]

nono, that was what my dovtor said to me, there shouldnt ever be protein in urine, ok, maybe there is very small amount thats considered nil/nothing/negative.

btw my creatinine goes down when i go off gear,afterlosing some mass, but not by alot.ill try to find my bloodwork sheets

What I was getting at is that our attending physicians are used to seeing 99.9% normal people. Not juiced up muscle men who eat lots of protein and workout intensely on a regular basis. Compared to a sedentary individual, I would imagine blood panels for a juiced up guy are skewed in many directions, with high protein output being one of them. I'm not saying protein in the urine is okay, just that you have to look at all the factors involved.

[delta9mda]

Your cholesterol is high get a script for Crestor or something similiar. Your RBC and hemocrat are due to eq use. I ran 600 mg per week last year and my number was 189 the doc told me i was at a risk for stroke. 2 months later after stopping it was back to 140. Iam also in Canada and blood work is free so i get it done every 4 months. My cholesterol was 7.5 before meds its now 2.9. Anything under 4 is good. Dont take chances with you health. Hows the bp?

do not take crestor or any of that shit. start 10 grams of fish oil yesterday along with red yeast rice and coq10. this will drop your cholesterol quickly. i know i did this.

liv52 is another great product for the liver values.

increase water intake.

[randy841]

man the creatinine numbers shouldnt be your top worry, they are ok.

your cholesterol is out of whack, both the good and bad one

btw, youll know your kidneys are gone when theres protein in the urine

so, other than cholesterol, all looks ok.

is your diet clean?

Yes, diet is clean.

HDL and LDL has improved on the latest blood work results reveal. No meds

P.S. Last Test -Deca shot completed July 3, 2012. Taking a 2-3 months off to go clean

Presently on Nolva for 3-5 weeks. Started July 24, 2012.