going on a cut with "massing" gear, please advise

[diamondcut]

how effective would a "Cutting" phase be with the following components:

test E 600mg/wk
eq 600mg/wk
deca 600mg/wk
dbol 25-100mg/day
with around 4iu hgh per day


does one just keep the calories a bit lower? and add cardio? what can be done to minimize the water retention?

the deca and dbol have been around for a long time (arnold and nubret days) and they looked fucking chiseled and fantastic, so i imagine it could be done pretty well


reason being, a friend of mine is in a sticky situation financially and doesnt want to slap the dough for a new tren ace, mast, primo, eq, high hgh cycle, and wants to use what he's got

i didnt have much to say about it, but what do u guys think

[Schmoe Buster]

Good diet plan, keep carbs moderate to low,cut out things like sugars, bit of cardio if needed, if water really an issue then perhaps an anit aroma.

[gatorr]

You would be surprised how water retention can be controlled by diet. Keep sodium low and drink lots of water.

[Schmoe Buster]

Also if he is already fat then he must lean out before starting the cycle

[SmoofCat]

how effective would a "Cutting" phase be with the following components:

test E 600mg/wk
eq 600mg/wk
deca 600mg/wk
dbol 25-100mg/day
with around 4iu hgh per day


does one just keep the calories a bit lower? and add cardio? what can be done to minimize the water retention?

the deca and dbol have been around for a long time (arnold and nubret days) and they looked fucking chiseled and fantastic, so i imagine it could be done pretty well


reason being, a friend of mine is in a sticky situation financially and doesnt want to slap the dough for a new tren ace, mast, primo, eq, high hgh cycle, and wants to use what he's got

i didnt have much to say about it, but what do u guys think

it's just counterintuitive to run these compounds on a cut... all of them are bad except eq.

i mean obviously you can control your water retention *to some degree* with diet, but you are going to be fighting a fucking full fledged battle attempting to cut on dianabol, deca and test. all you are going to want to do is eat, and the water weight is inevitable. you think that eating "clean" will make you not gain that 10-20 lbs of deca-d.bol water and give you moon face?

think again.

cut right. if you are going to do it with these compounds just use 200 mg test weekly with 900 mg of eq and call it a day if you can't get your hands on some tren.

[aesthetics]

if he's cutting from 15% to get a beach body he's wasting his time entirely and should just man up and get tren.

[Rickyboy]

if he's cutting from 15% to get a beach body he's wasting his time entirely and should just man up and get tren.

What's the big deal with Tren? Its side effects on some users can be severe, surely Winny amd Masteron can do the same job?

[ChevChelios]

It will not do the same job,how the fuck can you compare winny to tren?Jeezzz....

[aesthetics]

What's the big deal with Tren? Its side effects on some users can be severe, surely Winny amd Masteron can do the same job?

tren also works like a stimulant and helps a lot to burn up calories. no other steroid does that and they only assist in weight loss through the means of reducing cortisol levels and by binding directly to the androgen receptors in fat tissue which causes a little bit of fat loss.

if you are trying to cut on just AAS alone you need to do a bit more work, but with tren you really don't need to do anything to lose bodyfat except not overeat

winny is also a pretty harsh oral and will increase chances of a tendon injury so it's not that great. masteron is good once you are already lean but it won't really make you lose a ton of bodyfat unless you mega dose it

[Overload]

There was a Mod on here many years ago and he used to tell this story all the time.  Him and his bro's were at a local BBing show and in walked this massive country bumpkin corn fed farm boy who blew everyone away by a long shot.  This country boy ended up winning the show and afterwards this guy and his friends wanted to pick the guys brain because he was huge, ripped and not a person had ever heard of him before.  So they took this guy out to eat and asked him about his stack.  The country guy said he was on 250mg Test ED, 200mg Deca EOD and 100mg of Anadrol ED.  These guys figured he was bullshitting so they kept asking him about all these compounds like Tren and diuretics and the guy had no clue what they were talking about.  Apparently this guy had been on Test, Deca, DRol for almost 3 years straight and literally starved himself on 700 calories a day and 2 hours of cardio every morning and he looked incredible.

Why am I posting this? Because people need to understand that it's your diet and cardio that make you get ripped.  All the tren in the world isn't going to turn a fat person into a bodybuilder.

My first competition I ran Test E and Eq all the way through the show and I won with zero diuretics and very minimal AAS.  I wasn't the biggest guy in my class but i was fucking ripped.  I had been ripped for 3 weeks leading into the show.  That's how we did things in the 90's, you were in shape weeks in advance and threw in a mild diuretic if needed, but most of the top guys were ready to compete 2 weeks prior to the show.  Nobody mentioned fatburners or exotic chemicals like DNP for fatloss, we all talked about more cardio and less calories.  My how things have changed.

Dieting and training has changed quite a bit over the years.  These days it seems everyone uses "cutting" drugs and when they look like ass they claim to have "spilled over" or mistimed their carb up.

Tren is the only compound that i would ever consider a "cutting" drug and that is pushing it.

[SmoofCat]

What's the big deal with Tren? Its side effects on some users can be severe, surely Winny amd Masteron can do the same job?

no they can't.

[SmoofCat]

There was a Mod on here many years ago and he used to tell this story all the time.  Him and his bro's were at a local BBing show and in walked this massive country bumpkin corn fed farm boy who blew everyone away by a long shot.  This country boy ended up winning the show and afterwards this guy and his friends wanted to pick the guys brain because he was huge, ripped and not a person had ever heard of him before.  So they took this guy out to eat and asked him about his stack.  The country guy said he was on 250mg Test ED, 200mg Deca EOD and 100mg of Anadrol ED.  These guys figured he was bullshitting so they kept asking him about all these compounds like Tren and diuretics and the guy had no clue what they were talking about.  Apparently this guy had been on Test, Deca, DRol for almost 3 years straight and literally starved himself on 700 calories a day and 2 hours of cardio every morning and he looked incredible.

Why am I posting this? Because people need to understand that it's your diet and cardio that make you get ripped.  All the tren in the world isn't going to turn a fat person into a bodybuilder.

My first competition I ran Test E and Eq all the way through the show and I won with zero diuretics and very minimal AAS.  I wasn't the biggest guy in my class but i was fucking ripped.  I had been ripped for 3 weeks leading into the show.  That's how we did things in the 90's, you were in shape weeks in advance and threw in a mild diuretic if needed, but most of the top guys were ready to compete 2 weeks prior to the show.  Nobody mentioned fatburners or exotic chemicals like DNP for fatloss, we all talked about more cardio and less calories.  My how things have changed.

Dieting and training has changed quite a bit over the years.  These days it seems everyone uses "cutting" drugs and when they look like ass they claim to have "spilled over" or mistimed their carb up.

Tren is the only compound that i would ever consider a "cutting" drug and that is pushing it.

i agree overload that hard work and training is just as important as the gear you are on. but i just have no clue why anyone would want to take high dose deca/high dose test on a cut. i just can not make a single connection in my brain as to why someone would want to do this. even when my diet is perfect on 500 mg of deca, 1000 mg of test, i look bloated. it's inevitable.

yes if i starved myself to under 1000 calories a day that would be different. but why do that? why make this so hard?

[Schmoe Buster]

There was a Mod on here many years ago and he used to tell this story all the time.  Him and his bro's were at a local BBing show and in walked this massive country bumpkin corn fed farm boy who blew everyone away by a long shot.  This country boy ended up winning the show and afterwards this guy and his friends wanted to pick the guys brain because he was huge, ripped and not a person had ever heard of him before.  So they took this guy out to eat and asked him about his stack.  The country guy said he was on 250mg Test ED, 200mg Deca EOD and 100mg of Anadrol ED.  These guys figured he was bullshitting so they kept asking him about all these compounds like Tren and diuretics and the guy had no clue what they were talking about.  Apparently this guy had been on Test, Deca, DRol for almost 3 years straight and literally starved himself on 700 calories a day and 2 hours of cardio every morning and he looked incredible.

Why am I posting this? Because people need to understand that it's your diet and cardio that make you get ripped.  All the tren in the world isn't going to turn a fat person into a bodybuilder.

My first competition I ran Test E and Eq all the way through the show and I won with zero diuretics and very minimal AAS.  I wasn't the biggest guy in my class but i was fucking ripped.  I had been ripped for 3 weeks leading into the show.  That's how we did things in the 90's, you were in shape weeks in advance and threw in a mild diuretic if needed, but most of the top guys were ready to compete 2 weeks prior to the show.  Nobody mentioned fatburners or exotic chemicals like DNP for fatloss, we all talked about more cardio and less calories.  My how things have changed.

Dieting and training has changed quite a bit over the years.  These days it seems everyone uses "cutting" drugs and when they look like ass they claim to have "spilled over" or mistimed their carb up.

Tren is the only compound that i would ever consider a "cutting" drug and that is pushing it.

Great story, the country boy didnt over think things and probably didnt read boards, hard work and diet and some basic gear

[SamsonD]

Just the amount of estrogen that will be converted on that stack is going to foul you up.  If those are the compounds you have to use for some reason, you could do like 300mg of test, 900 eq and MAYBE 200 of deca if you absolutely are convinced you are going to use it.  NO DBOL.

[chess315]

  I agree with the story these compounds are basically over rated in what they do you could be ripped to shreads on 1500mg test only or deca dbol especailly when your just talking about for going to the beach .

[Overload]

i agree overload that hard work and training is just as important as the gear you are on. but i just have no clue why anyone would want to take high dose deca/high dose test on a cut. i just can not make a single connection in my brain as to why someone would want to do this. even when my diet is perfect on 500 mg of deca, 1000 mg of test, i look bloated. it's inevitable.

yes if i starved myself to under 1000 calories a day that would be different. but why do that? why make this so hard?

I agree with you.  I just wanted to post the story more to show people how different things are today, this story was in 1998 i believe.  I always got bloated on test/deca as well and can't imagine trying to get ripped on it.

Sometimes things are easier than they appear.  I do think Tren/Mast are amazing drugs for cutting, but they don't do the dieting for you.

[Rearden Metal]

I've done the contest diet both ways. They both "work". But for the love of god if you can afford gh and Tren, use it. No good reason to eat like a schoolgirl if you don't have to.

[Arnold jr]

I've run all these items while dieting, one diet in particular was 1250mg of test/wk, 400 or 500mg of deca/wk (can't remember exactly) and around 30mg of dbol. I did that for 8 or 9wks phased out the dbol, test went down to around 850mg/wk, deca went down to 200mg and I added in a little Tren and winny...wasn't much, didn't have much. Anyway, used arimidex the whole time, I've always liked arimidex and the fear a lot of people have of it and other AI's makes no sense to me. Anyway, everything turned out fairly well. I wouldn't call it my favorite cutting plan of all time by any means, but you can make just about anything work.

Just some comments about other comments in the thread...

I agree, if you have Tren and HGH these should always be first choices.

I actually think Winny is a great steroid for contest prep...when conjoined with Tren it's hard to beat IMO.

[Borracho]

To me it seems that having higher estrogen levels would be counter productive, so steroids that aromatize at higher rates would be harder to get lean on. It makes sense that steroids we consider good for cutting are more androgenic, provide dry gains and do not convert to estrogen at a rate that something like dianabol would. I wonder if using an ai like arnold jr mentioned would be the solution for this....

[Brocty]

Deca would sure be nice on the joints while cutting though, always wanted to try it but have always gone with tren.  Perhaps Npp and tren next time

But I wouldn't choose those to run while cutting, too much water, very sensitive to estro and water gain.  Even with high letro.  I would atleast switch out the dbol for anadrol.

Short esters feel a lot nicer on cutting as well.  In system quick, shot early before workout, pop adrol throughout the day, throw some halo in there..it all recomps body nicely.  More bang for buck on potency per mg.  It just does the job so much better for getting into shape in my experiences.

Id revise the cycle as this

350-525 prop
700 NPP
700 Tren
50-100 abombs a day

Can keep EQ in there if you wish, maybe you respond better than I do.  Id rather just up the tren though

If competing id have mast in there, go higher with oral abomb up to show, halo last 5 weeks at 30.  Dont have expereince with NPP while show prep, but would likely cut it out a few weeks before show.  Raise tren dose.   And of course some GH would be of great benefit

[aesthetics]

There was a Mod on here many years ago and he used to tell this story all the time.  Him and his bro's were at a local BBing show and in walked this massive country bumpkin corn fed farm boy who blew everyone away by a long shot.  This country boy ended up winning the show and afterwards this guy and his friends wanted to pick the guys brain because he was huge, ripped and not a person had ever heard of him before.  So they took this guy out to eat and asked him about his stack.  The country guy said he was on 250mg Test ED, 200mg Deca EOD and 100mg of Anadrol ED.  These guys figured he was bullshitting so they kept asking him about all these compounds like Tren and diuretics and the guy had no clue what they were talking about.  Apparently this guy had been on Test, Deca, DRol for almost 3 years straight and literally starved himself on 700 calories a day and 2 hours of cardio every morning and he looked incredible.

Why am I posting this? Because people need to understand that it's your diet and cardio that make you get ripped.  All the tren in the world isn't going to turn a fat person into a bodybuilder.

My first competition I ran Test E and Eq all the way through the show and I won with zero diuretics and very minimal AAS.  I wasn't the biggest guy in my class but i was fucking ripped.  I had been ripped for 3 weeks leading into the show.  That's how we did things in the 90's, you were in shape weeks in advance and threw in a mild diuretic if needed, but most of the top guys were ready to compete 2 weeks prior to the show.  Nobody mentioned fatburners or exotic chemicals like DNP for fatloss, we all talked about more cardio and less calories.  My how things have changed.

Dieting and training has changed quite a bit over the years.  These days it seems everyone uses "cutting" drugs and when they look like ass they claim to have "spilled over" or mistimed their carb up.

Tren is the only compound that i would ever consider a "cutting" drug and that is pushing it.

that's absolutely extreme though. lifting + 2 hours of cardio a day and only one 700 calories, that's insane and not many people can mentally push themselves through that, at least i can't  (though i am lazy).

why go through all that grueling suffering when you can eat relatively normally, just with a slight calorie deficit and run tren and lose fat? i'd always opt for the easier and less painful method but i guess ultimately you can drop bodyfat anyway you want since it's just about calories in vs calories out

also depends on the goals but if the goal is simply to get "shredded" and "look good" for the time being, then those bloofy drugs are counterproductive since water retention looks identical to bodyfat increase.

[Arnold jr]

To me it seems that having higher estrogen levels would be counter productive, so steroids that aromatize at higher rates would be harder to get lean on. It makes sense that steroids we consider good for cutting are more androgenic, provide dry gains and do not convert to estrogen at a rate that something like dianabol would. I wonder if using an ai like arnold jr mentioned would be the solution for this....

Anavar, Equipoise, Halotestin, Masteron and Winstrol, are all common steroids used in cutting cycles that are far more anabolic than androgenic...Primobolan as well to a degree. I know a lot of guys here think Winstrol is a poor steroid and Equipoise is a better bulking steroid than cutting steroid, but in the real world these are regularly used in cutting cycles.

Anyway, as far as estrogen goes, you're right, more makes fat-loss difficult, but it's not that hard to control. For whatever reason, if you take testosterone and administer smaller doses more frequently, even with large esters it seems to help out quite a bit. If you do this with the use of an AI, there's really no reason you should have an estrogen problem. I think a lot of guys don't like AI's or think they're worthless because they normally don't have access to quality AI's or they simply opt for some low grade liquid forms.

I mentioned one cycle already, but the most extreme cycle I ever ran included 250mg of test-e every single day with 50-100mg of Dbol and 100mg of Tren-A every day. That was the most test I ever used, and for my purposes I think it was overkill but I was able to control the aromatase through AI use. I was able to control the bloating through AI use and keeping my diet somewhat clean.

Now I'm not saying the above was my favorite cycle of all time, I'm simply using it as an example.

[Borracho]

Anavar, Equipoise, Halotestin, Masteron and Winstrol, are all common steroids used in cutting cycles that are far more anabolic than androgenic...Primobolan as well to a degree. I know a lot of guys here think Winstrol is a poor steroid and Equipoise is a better bulking steroid than cutting steroid, but in the real world these are regularly used in cutting cycles.

Anyway, as far as estrogen goes, you're right, more makes fat-loss difficult, but it's not that hard to control. For whatever reason, if you take testosterone and administer smaller doses more frequently, even with large esters it seems to help out quite a bit. If you do this with the use of an AI, there's really no reason you should have an estrogen problem. I think a lot of guys don't like AI's or think they're worthless because they normally don't have access to quality AI's or they simply opt for some low grade liquid forms.

I mentioned one cycle already, but the most extreme cycle I ever ran included 250mg of test-e every single day with 50-100mg of Dbol and 100mg of Tren-A every day. That was the most test I ever used, and for my purposes I think it was overkill but I was able to control the aromatase through AI use. I was able to control the bloating through AI use and keeping my diet somewhat clean.

Now I'm not saying the above was my favorite cycle of all time, I'm simply using it as an example.

I tend to classify steroids that don't put on excess water or bloat as androgenic for some reason. You're right though since all the ones you mentioned are more anabolic. I'm gonna try some dbol at the start of my cutting cycle with an anti e and hopefully get some good results. I think if I did a ketogenic diet I would not hold as much water and be able to maintain fullness.

[Arnold jr]

I'm a big keto fan, it's my preferred way to diet. You can really shed some fat and you can actually maintain some fullness if you do things right...most people who don't like keto, almost every time they tell me why it's because they're doing something wrong.

[aesthetics]

I'm a big keto fan, it's my preferred way to diet. You can really shed some fat and you can actually maintain some fullness if you do things right...most people who don't like keto, almost every time they tell me why it's because they're doing something wrong.

i also like keto but mostly because i seem to have an innately high level of insulin resistance (probably because i never want to come off hgh) which causes me to have a severe carb craving at all times unless i completely fast or do keto.

always interested in hearing other people's protocols especially if they feel they've mastered it. anyways, is it just carb refeeds or do you incorporate insulin while in keto? i generally don't care much about looking flat but the drop in strength is a real pain in the ass.