Should Churches pay taxes?

[shootfighter1]

I would remove tax exempt status from almost every organization, especially churches because it has been abused and bring the rates down for everyone.  Personal charitable contributions should give the individual tax breaks.

[Straw Man]

How are churches "FULLY INVOLVED with politics"?  Find one, get proof, turn it in, and that one church will lose their tax exemption.

Churches also offer many benefits to society(help to the poor, free counseling, literacy, etc.) that the government otherwise would have to deal with, as if the government needed more.

How is the church a business?

are you joking man

are you really that uninformed.

Preachers have been playing politics from the pulpit since the founding of this country right up to the present day

A simple google search will find plenty of examples

Here is one blatant example:

http://www.secularnewsdaily.com/2012/01/12/iowa-pastor-illegally-endorses-bachmann-from-pulpit-2/
The Freedom From Religion Foundation has filed a complaint with the Internal Revenue Service over questionable campaign intervention activities at Jubilee Family Church in Oskaloosa, Iowa.

FFRF is a national state/church watchdog group with over 17,000 members nationwide, including more than 150 in Iowa.

Rep. Michele Bachmann appeared at Jubilee Family Church in what appears to be a quest to garner last-minute votes, days before the Iowa Republican Caucus. On Jan. 1, she arrived to a church crowd bearing, "Bachmann for President" signs and buttons. A table at the back of the church displayed election material.

Bachmann spoke at the church during a typical Sunday worship service. Both Pastor Bill Tvedt and Bachmann addressed the crowd with a mixture of campaign rhetoric and prayer. Tvedt’s final remarks to Bachmann were, "God bless you, you’re awesome."

"Pastor Bill Tvedt inappropriately used his position as pastor of Jubilee Family Church to intervene in a political campaign. He violated IRS regulations by voicing his support for Michele Bachmann," wrote FFRF Senior Staff Attorney Rebecca Markert in a letter to the IRS.

The race for the Republican nomination had been a topic of interest at Jubliee Family Church for several weeks prior to the Iowa Caucus. Tvedt had previously personally endorsed Bachmann and had given a politically themed sermon series, "Spirit of Big Government." He also urged the congregation to "Choose a Leader of Biblical Standards."

No church statement indicated other Republican candidates had ever been invited to address the congregation.

The IRS strictly prohibits 501(c)(3) organizations, which include churches and other religious organizations, from taking part in political campaigns.

"Bachmann’s appearance at an official church function, a Sunday worship service, and Pastor Tvedt’s remarks before and after her speech constitute illegal campaign intervention," noted Markert.

Video footage taken after the service (available on C-SPAN) captured Bachmann lobbying for votes: "I’m glad you came this morning I’d love to have your vote on the third."

"FFRF respectfully requests that the IRS commence an immediate investigation to determine whether Pastor Tvedt violated IRS regulations prohibiting Jubilee Family Church from participating in and/or intervening in a political campaign," wrote Markert.

[tu_holmes]

are you joking man

are you really that uninformed.

Preachers have been playing politics from the pulpit since the founding of this country right up to the present day

A simple google search will find plenty of examples

Here is one blatant example:

I'm confused... What was that quote representing?

Are you questioning your own point?

Oh... I see, you are responding to Loco.

[Soul Crusher]

are you joking man

are you really that uninformed.

Preachers have been playing politics from the pulpit since the founding of this country right up to the present day

A simple google search will find plenty of examples

Here is one blatant example:

Here is another example!  

[Straw Man]

http://news.yahoo.com/catholic-monti-moves-end-italy-church-tax-breaks-175827351.html


Catholic Monti moves to end Italy Church tax breaks

ROME (Reuters) - Prime Minister Mario Monti, a Catholic crusading to put Italy's economy in order by ending entrenched privileges such as tax breaks, is striking against an unlikely target - his own Church.

Monti's government issued a statement on Wednesday night saying it had informed the European Commission that it would pass a law ending the Church's exemption from local property taxes on its properties used for commercial purposes.

Estimates on how much this can bring to government coffers have ranged from 700 million euros ($908 million) to more than 1 billion euros.

Italy's Church - once an unshakable, and some say untouchable, institution - has come under fire for what some consider unfair privileges at a time Monti has asked Italians to make unprecedented sacrifices as part of a "tears and blood" austerity plan to thwart a Greek-style crisis.

The European Commission in 2010 opened a probe against Italy to determine if tax breaks for some Church properties amounted to illegal state aid and distorted competition.

Some political parties, particularly the tiny, liberal Radical Party, and some intellectual leaders, have led a campaign to strip the Church of tax exemption on properties that are not used exclusively as places of worship.

Throughout Italy, the Church owns many private clinics, hotels, bed and breakfasts and guest houses that enjoy tax exempt status because parts of the structures are occupied by priests or nuns or have a chapel for worship.

That created a grey area where many structures were essentially commercial but covered by the religious exemption law.

The government statement said the proposal to be presented in parliament would limit the tax exemption to structures that are "exclusively non-commercial." It did not say when it would present the bill.

In mixed-use cases, such as hotels run by nuns, the exemption will apply only to the parts of the structures that are non-commercial, such as chapels and residences for priests and nuns, and the statement said the Economy Ministry - not the Church - would decide which is which.

CHURCH LEADERS NOT INFORMED

Although contacts have been going on for a few months, Monti's move to take the bull by the horns surprised Italy's Catholic hierarchy.

"We are waiting to see the exact formulation of the text in order to provide a detailed judgment," the Italian bishops' conference said in a statement.

The Catholic Church is one of Italy's largest private real estate holders and, if the Commission were to rule against Italy, Rome could be forced to order the Church to reimburse the government for unpaid taxes.

While the law would affect all religions, its impact on the relatively tiny property holdings of the Jewish and Muslim communities would be negligible.

The controversy over Church tax exemptions had been bubbling for years but boiled over in the past few months, particularly after the Monti government re-instated a local property tax on primary residences that had been abolished by his predecessor, Silvio Berlusconi.

In a 48-hour period after the austerity package was passed in December, more than 130,000 people signed an on-line petition demanding that the Church be stripped of much of its tax exempt status and pay its fair share.

At first, the Church dug in its heels, saying tax laws had to take into consideration the social benefit of many of its activities.

But, as austerity began to bite into the budgets of ordinary Italians who were forced to pay more taxes and delay their retirements, Italian Church leaders softened their stand and said they were willing to negotiate and rectify any past abuses.

[Straw Man]

Here is another example!  

for sure

happens on all sides

it's time to stop pretending this shit doesn't happen

[Soul Crusher]

[Straw Man]

I'm confused... What was that quote representing?

Are you questioning your own point?

Oh... I see, you are responding to Loco.

I just clicked on wrong quote

[tu_holmes]

I just clicked on wrong quote

All good. I figured it out.

[Hugo Chavez]

yes, why should they be except?

[Soul Crusher]

yes, why should they be except?

So long as we can tax the unwanted babies out of planned parenthood, the communism out of media matters, the granola out of Sierra Club, the Vaginas and tits out of NOW, the illiterate fools at AFT, the panda bears out of WWF, the pcb's out of River Keeper, etc - im all for it.   

[Skip8282]

Absolutely no. 

The power to tax is the power to destroy.

That said, we should more rigourously enforce the laws against both religious and non-religious groups engaging in politics.

[tu_holmes]

Absolutely no. 

The power to tax is the power to destroy.

That said, we should more rigorously enforce the laws against both religious and non-religious groups engaging in politics.

Right Here bitches..

[Hugo Chavez]

I think they should be taxed like everyone else.  With that said I think we should all be taxed a hell of a lot less than we are.

[Soul Crusher]

I think they should be taxed like everyone else.  With that said I think we should all be taxed a hell of a lot less than we are.

You can't have lower taxes unless you have less govt.  spending.   Why do think that the far left keeps demanding more spending?   Its because they dont want lower taxes so they ensure that by demanding higher spending.   

The spending is the tax, not the other way around. 

 

[tu_holmes]

You can't have lower taxes unless you have less govt.  spending.   Why do think that the far left keeps demanding more spending?   Its because they dont want lower taxes so they ensure that by demanding higher spending.   

The spending is the tax, not the other way around. 

 

I know how government budgets work and it's pretty fucked up.

Let's say in 2012, you have a budget for 1 million dollars... If you don't spend that million dollars in that year, and let's say, you only spend 500,000, then in 2013, your budget will only be 500,000... So at the end of 2012 departments go out of their way to spend any and all money left in their budget.

Whether they need to or not.

This keeps them getting a million dollars every year.

Budgets should be allowed to shrink and grow as needed... not just to keep a steady check coming in.

It's quite fucked up.

[Hugo Chavez]

You can't have lower taxes unless you have less govt.  spending.   

No fucking shit...  I think I've been pretty clear I've been for that.