Bodybuilding judging panel...

[BiGHer]

Why is it not announced who is judging the contest before the contest starts??  I feel like it could benefit the sport to actually advertise who is judging a show...

Look at almost any other sport... Basketball, football, baseball, hockey, etc... It is always announced who is umpiring, reffing, or calling the game.  Many of these guys get further recognition by sportscasters promoting them with things like "Well so and so is officiating tonights game.  He has 20 years of experience under his belt so it's no surprise that he is calling tonights championship game." 

So why not further promotion of who decides who wins and loses a bodybuilding show??  It really would make sense.  Think about added discussion between fans:

Person 1 says:

"Well Joe Bob really values conditioning so expect Branch to do well tonight as Joe Bob is the head judge."

Person 2 replies:

"I agree.  If John Doe was head judge though, I think we would have seen Wolf come out on top as John Doe really values an aesthetic look and Wolf's condition may not have been as good as Branch's, but it was solid, and he showed a more complete package that John doe would have rewarded."

Thoughts?  Curious as to what guys like Ron and Chick have to offer on a topic like this.

[TonyAlva]

  

[Papper]

Because schmoes like to be anonymous and jerk off in the shadows

[Cleanest Natural]

Because schmoes like to be anonymous and jerk off in the shadows

[Parker]

Because accountability and transparency and bbing shows don't go hand in hand...

[Spidey]

How would they be bribed then? If everyone knew who they were? 

[Chick]

Why is it not announced who is judging the contest before the contest starts??  I feel like it could benefit the sport to actually advertise who is judging a show...

Look at almost any other sport... Basketball, football, baseball, hockey, etc... It is always announced who is umpiring, reffing, or calling the game.  Many of these guys get further recognition by sportscasters promoting them with things like "Well so and so is officiating tonights game.  He has 20 years of experience under his belt so it's no surprise that he is calling tonights championship game." 

So why not further promotion of who decides who wins and loses a bodybuilding show??  It really would make sense.  Think about added discussion between fans:

Person 1 says:

"Well Joe Bob really values conditioning so expect Branch to do well tonight as Joe Bob is the head judge."

Person 2 replies:

"I agree.  If John Doe was head judge though, I think we would have seen Wolf come out on top as John Doe really values an aesthetic look and Wolf's condition may not have been as good as Branch's, but it was solid, and he showed a more complete package that John doe would have rewarded."

Thoughts?  Curious as to what guys like Ron and Chick have to offer on a topic like this.

I really dont see the value...its pretty much the same crop of judges depending on which side of the US youre on...

[BiGHer]

I was actually being really serious and we have some guys like Ron, Chick, Tony Dougherty, and a few others that are and have been actively involved in this sport for a long time.  I actually thought of this when I was watching the new web cast Chick is doing, The Last Rep.

I don't think what I'm saying is ridiculous... curious as to why it couldn't be this way and if it could potentially be this way then what would need to be done to make it happen?

[BiGHer]

I really dont see the value...its pretty much the same crop of judges depending on which side of the US youre on...

I agree, but why not shed some light on who the judges are and what their thinking is when making certain decisions?  In other sports it's pretty easy... If a guy committs a traveling violation in basketball, it's pretty cut and dry.  Yeah, bad calls happen, and ESPN may play the replay and point it out, but overall, it's pretty straight forward.  However, since bodybuilding is subjective, I think it could be beneficial to know the reasoning and thought process behind the panels subjectivity.

[BiGHer]

I also think it would be more beneficial for the competitors...

If I new that so and so was judging and preferred a certain type of look then it could impact how I prep because I'll want to try to bring the look that the particular judge is looking for.

I dunno... maybe I am being ridiculous, but I don't think so.

[BiGHer]

It's just I can't remember being involved in a sport where I didn't know what type of "officiating" I would be dealing with.

By the time I was a senior in college and even in High School, I knew all the refs in my schools basketball conference.  As soon as the officiating crew came out I'd know if they were going to let things go and the guys could play physical or if I needed to play more passively because certain refs would make more ticky-tack calls.  I just think it's interesting how their is little attention and focus put on the judging panel is all.

[Secret Stack]

dont worry, im with you bigGHer, but seriously, this is bodybuilding.

Imagine if it was known who was responsible for giving Branch the Arnold title AND!!!! giving him best poser award!?!?

Could you imagine? lol. Instead of threads all over message boards titled "ifbb is corrupt" there would actually be NAMES of judges in thread titles saying how corrupt they are. Not knowing names gives them 4 letters to hide behind anonymously - I.F.B.B.

Who the hell would want them at a judging panel for next time when every second thread has these guys names in it? MORE IMPORTANTLY! what pro bodybuilder would enter a pro show when they see the same names of the judges that judged the arnold this year?

...and you start to see how by naming judges names, shows lose money.........!

[BiGHer]

dont worry, im with you bigGHer, but seriously, this is bodybuilding.

Imagine if it was known who was responsible for giving Branch the Arnold title AND!!!! giving him best poser award!?!?

Could you imagine? lol. Instead of threads all over message boards titled "ifbb is corrupt" there would actually be NAMES of judges in thread titles saying how corrupt they are. Not knowing names gives them 4 letters to hide behind anonymously - I.F.B.B.

Who the hell would want them at a judging panel for next time when every second thread has these guys names in it? MORE IMPORTANTLY! what pro bodybuilder would enter a pro show when they see the same names of the judges that judged the arnold this year?

...and you start to see how by naming judges names, shows lose money.........!

I'm not really looking to have a discussion about views on "corruption" in the IFBB, but under the premise your giving, it's even more reason to call out the judges.

Look at officiating corruption in other sports.  Refs and umpires get crucified by the media, fined, and sometimes even their officiating lisence removed for things like betting on sports.  Putting attention on the judging panel would only hold them more accountable and prevent things like "corruption," which as I just pointed out, is not just limited to the IFBB.  There are always going to be bad apples in any professional situation where money is involved. 

I think judges score cards should even be made public.  You can open pretty much any news paper and see the stats from any game no?  Also, as Chick pointed out in TLR, at the Arnold, it was the best entertainer award, not poser.  So if the judges felt the crowd was more entertained by Branch then they made a good pick and having explanations like such helps justify their view.

[Secret Stack]

let me make this clearer - the judges are protected and usually "old timers" in the ifbb. very close to those at the top.
they will not put any "rule" on these people that forces their name out there, and if they are kindly asked to, they will kindly so no and that will be the end of it. not something as big of a show where it is decided branch wins over wolf.

i will be fair and say i have been to shows where a formal introduction of the judges are made to the audience. one by one starting from head judge and his/her "guests". i dont think it is ever done at pro shows - more local events.

FYI, score sheets/cards HAVE been posted after a competition for as long as i can remember.

[BiGHer]

let me make this clearer - the judges are protected and usually "old timers" in the ifbb. very close to those at the top.
they will not put any "rule" on these people that forces their name out there, and if they are kindly asked to, they will kindly so no and that will be the end of it. not something as big of a show where it is decided branch wins over wolf.

i will be fair and say i have been to shows where a formal introduction of the judges are made to the audience. one by one starting from head judge and his/her "guests". i dont think it is ever done at pro shows - more local events.

FYI, score sheets/cards HAVE been posted after a competition for as long as i can remember.

Good point above, actually now that I think of it, I have even seen them posted on GB before.

I'll say this though... if everything you're saying is true (and I'm curious if some of the vets I called out will argue you, however I'm afraid the silence maybe deafening) then things like The Last Rep and other attempts to make bodybuilding appear more as a sport and become more widely accepted are inevitably always going to have a short cieling because of these limitations. 

Remember, if you have a stain on your shirt (drug use in bodybuilding would be the stain here) and you're at a dinner party, you can get away with it.  If you walk around a dinner party covered in pasta sauce though, everyone knows and wants nothing to do with you... get what I'm saying?  The more truly professional bodybuilding can become, the more widely it can be accepted... at least speaking in terms of the US.

I don't know though.  Maybe I'm being delusional in hoping that bodybuilding could be more mainstream and widely accepted.  However, they are referred to as "contests" so maybe the top of the top don't even want it to be a sport.  Maybe they want it to be more like.... hhhhmmmm American Idol?  I just think it would be cool to see bodybuilding back on ESPN again and not looked at like the circus is coming to town.  I'm not meaning to sound negative either and actually, I wouldn't mind having a more proactive role within the actual "behind the scenes" world of bodybuilding.

[makaveli25]

Bodybuilding judges are worse than mma judges. They suck! Whoever judged the Arnold Classic should be put in prison!

[MB]

FYI, score sheets/cards HAVE been posted after a competition for as long as i can remember.

Score sheets with the total scores for each round have been posted, but I've never seen score sheets from individual judges.  Tallying the scores is done anonymously. 

[Secret Stack]

Score sheets with the total scores for each round have been posted, but I've never seen score sheets from individual judges.  Tallying the scores is done anonymously. 

correct. it is just a score sheet with a tally of scores. you will never know which judges gave what scores and why.

and mark my words, you never will for as long as you live.

[crownshep]

In the 80s,the shows i went to like the Olympia and the grand prixs,introduced the judges to the audience.And when the scoresheets were available,the judges name was alongside his scores.

[Papper]

Joking aside, i have also raised this issue. If those judges can stand for what they think and are competent why cant they explain their reasoning since obviously a lot want to know.

Make a poll, i bet no one would have something against public judges and to hear their reasoning

[Radical Plato]

Why is it not announced who is judging the contest before the contest starts??  I feel like it could benefit the sport to actually advertise who is judging a show...

Look at almost any other sport... Basketball, football, baseball, hockey, etc... It is always announced who is umpiring, reffing, or calling the game.  Many of these guys get further recognition by sportscasters promoting them with things like "Well so and so is officiating tonights game.  He has 20 years of experience under his belt so it's no surprise that he is calling tonights championship game." 

So why not further promotion of who decides who wins and loses a bodybuilding show??  It really would make sense.  Think about added discussion between fans:

Person 1 says:

"Well Joe Bob really values conditioning so expect Branch to do well tonight as Joe Bob is the head judge."

Person 2 replies:

"I agree.  If John Doe was head judge though, I think we would have seen Wolf come out on top as John Doe really values an aesthetic look and Wolf's condition may not have been as good as Branch's, but it was solid, and he showed a more complete package that John doe would have rewarded."

Thoughts?  Curious as to what guys like Ron and Chick have to offer on a topic like this.

I think we should just get a decibel sensor meter and then ask the crowd, whatever bodybuilder registers the highest decibel response from the audience wins - sounds stupid - but analyse any subjective judging criteria, and they all seem nuts!

[Parker]

In the 80s,the shows i went to like the Olympia and the grand prixs,introduced the judges to the audience.And when the scoresheets were available,the judges name was alongside his scores.

And the physiques looked better. These are the days of get them in their seats, entertain them, and  take their money.

[stuntmovie]

CROWNSHEP is definitely correct about the 80's (and in most cases even before and after the 80's).

In the past it was always a common courtesy to introduce the official judging panel before the start of every contest. But that was when the number of contest entries was relatively small so that only five to nine judges were necessary for the entire event.

But nowadays it takes many more judges to judge a contest due to the number of entries and events, so I would assume that the introduction of judges was eliminated in some events in an effort to save time.

I find it hard to believe that a judging conspiracy theory is in effect though.

The judges don't wear paper bags over their heads and you can always hear the judges' individual names being called when they are required at the judging table, so there is no intent to hide their identity.

I am not familiar with the current day score-sheet procedures but just a while back the official score sheets did in fact show how each individual judge placed each individual contestant.

And there was a strict procedure  (a complicated Statistical Formula) that was used to 'judge' the judges themselves. Many judges lost their judging 'credentials' if they failed to meet this statistical criteria and hence would have to requalify.

Many years ago we held a small 'contest' in an attempt to 'discover' a better method of judging a bodybuilding contest ... only to discover that the method we used to determine placings within the NPC was the best that anyone could think of.

And it still is when adhered to properly.

BIG, I've made the following recommendation to many worthwhile competitors in the past who had serious concerns or questions about the NPC judging procedures .... and I offer the same to you and other individuals who plan to make an attempt to reach the National level.....

1. GET INVOLVED by contacting your local NPC Rep and request permission to sit in as a Test judge at the next NPC contest.
2.  Follow through with a seat directly behind the official judging table with pencil and score sheet in your hand and commit to your decisions for each event and compare them to the official outcome.
3.  Do the above three times and then ask the Head Judge if you can sit in and help compute the final tabulations to determine the placeiings of each and every contender.
4. Finally sit in as a Test Judge during the evening finals to determine the overall winner.

Do none of the above if you are competing in that contest.

This Test Judging experience will place you miles ahead of  your fellow competitors when it's your time to compete on stage.

You'll know what your fellow competitors will be doing wrong annd what they'll  be doing right simply because you saw it all from a judges' perspective  while test judging.

And you'll learn a hell of a lot more while sitting in that judge's seat that will ease your mind while competing on that stage.

Gain that advantage by sitting in as a Test Judge. It's an ED-U-MA-KA-TION that will definitely be
BeN-E-Fi-CIAL and enlightening.

And you, yourself, might even discover the answer to the question you're asking here instead of listening to us-uns who can only offer 'gueses' and/or accusations.

[stuntmovie]

E-KIL, That's been done before! More than a couple of times if I recall right.

The winner as determined by the APPLAUSAE-O-METER was a skinny swimmer type guy who lived within five miles of  the contest sight and brought all his high school friends to the venue with a request to clap real loud.

The only one to benefit from that event was the promoter who sold way more tickets to high school kids than he had ever anticipated.

BUT, ... If I was involved with the Olympia, I'd set something up so that each spectator in the auditorium would have some form of an opportunity to 'judge' the contest individually.

But I'd color-code the individual audience score-sheets and could just about guarantee you that  the winner would be decided based on where the spectators sat and NOT on the condition of the contestant.

[Radical Plato]

E-KIL, That's been done before! More than a couple of times if I recall right.

The winner as determined by the APPLAUSAE-O-METER was a skinny swimmer type guy who lived within five miles of  the contest sight and brought all his high school friends to the venue with a promise to clap real loud.

The only one to benefit from that event was the promoter who sold way more tickets to high school kids than he ever anticipated.

HA HA lol or just maybe a coin toss - every one likes the coin toss