Author Topic: Solyndra x 7 underway in California - WTF!!!  (Read 1465 times)

Soul Crusher

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Solyndra x 7 underway in California - WTF!!!
« on: March 24, 2012, 07:26:37 AM »
Chris Reed


http://www.city-journal.org/comments/index.php?story=7934#comments


Solyndra Times Seven

Why California’s high-speed rail project is an even greater waste of federal tax dollars.

21 March 2012



The national media have devoted plenty of skeptical attention to California’s bullet-train boondoggle—from the ballooning cost of the California High-Speed Rail Authority project to its shoddy management to the baffling decision to build the first segment in the lightly populated Central Valley. But the press has yet to focus on a crucial fact: the bullet train isn’t just some quirky Left Coast fiasco; it’s also a grotesque waste of federal money. The project serves as a powerful reminder of the Obama administration’s mishandling of the $787 billion stimulus that Congress passed in February 2009 with solemn assurances of prudence and accountability. The bullet-train project, in fact, can be thought of as “Solyndra times seven”—that’s how far its costs outstrip those of the much-touted Bay Area solar panel manufacturer that burned through $528 million in federal loans before declaring bankruptcy and folding last September.

In California, the federal government is committed to spending $3.5 billion—with most of those dollars coming from the 2009 stimulus—for a project whose problems are glaring. State officials are trying to remake the bullet train on the fly, promising at a legislative hearing in Silicon Valley to implement changes that would bring down the cost and speed up construction. But none of those changes alters the fact that the bullet-train project appears clearly to violate federal regulations governing stimulus spending on transportation. The rules, published in the Federal Register on June 23, 2009, require that applications for stimulus funds to build high-speed rail projects would be approved only after “rigorous analysis,” factoring in a careful examination of the proposed project’s “financial plan (capital and operating),” “reasonableness of financial estimates,” and “quality of planning process.” Grant recipients would make regular progress reports, corroborated by Federal Railroad Administration audits. Even the most cursory analysis shows that the California bullet train falls far short of compliance with the rules.

State auditors, the University of California’s Institute for Transportation, and an ad hoc peer-review committee appointed by the legislature all lambasted the project’s financial plan as incomplete, overly ambitious, and based on unverifiable numbers. In January, the peer-review group issued its assessment: “We cannot overemphasize the fact that moving ahead on the HSR project without credible sources of adequate funding, without a definitive business model, without a strategy to maximize the independent utility and value to the state, and without the appropriate management resources, represents an immense financial risk on the part of the state of California.” The peer review followed a damning analysis published in November by the state’s nonpartisan Legislative Analyst’s Office, perhaps the most respected agency in Sacramento, which concluded that rail officials had yet to address how to fund the (at least) $98-billion-system linking Los Angeles and San Francisco.

California has about $13 billion on hand to begin the first phase of the project. The rail authority and its boosters claim that the federal government and private investors will supply the remaining $85 billion. Those additional federal dollars are almost certainly not coming. Congressional budget cutters have targeted discretionary domestic spending, and the $260 billion transportation bill currently winding through Congress expressly prohibits California from diverting any highway funds for high-speed rail. Meanwhile, Wall Street isn’t enamored with the project, and private investment funds have shown zero interest in partnering with California unless they receive revenue or ridership guarantees. But guaranteeing a certain return on investment would amount to promising subsidies if the rail authority’s immense ridership forecasts don’t pan out—taxpayers would be making up the difference. And Proposition 1A—the 2008 state ballot measure providing $9.95 billion in bond money for the project—explicitly bans taxpayer-funded operating subsidies.

Rail authority executives and prominent California Democrats, including Governor Jerry Brown, Senate President Pro Tem Darrell Steinberg, and former HSRA chairman Quentin Kopp, continue to talk up the chances for substantial private investment. But the record of the last two governors, both ardent champions of the project, suggests the obstacles to such investment are larger than they first appear. Arnold Schwarzenegger explored outsourcing the construction and operation of the train to the Chinese. He failed. And in January, Brown suggested that the tens of billions of dollars that companies will pay for pollution rights in coming years under the state’s nascent cap-and-trade program could fund the project—assuming, of course, he can find a way to pry those dollars from the clutches of the California Air Resources Board, which already has plans for the uncollected funds.

The bullet train’s “reasonableness of financial estimates” is questionable, beginning with the project’s revenue forecasts. The LAO noted a projection of 44 million riders a year when the L.A.-Bay Area line is complete. That’s down from the hallucinatory claim of 117 million passengers that proponents of Prop. 1A offered in 2008, but it’s still ridiculous. In reality, 44 million passengers would be 50 percent higher than the number of people Amtrak carries to and from more than 500 stations in 46 states and three Canadian provinces each year.

How was the estimate derived? Elizabeth Alexis, a Palo Alto finance expert and co-founder of Californians Advocating Responsible Rail Design, delved into the methodology and discovered, among other things, that the rail authority assumed that the future cost of gasoline would top $40 a gallon. Alexis also noted that the public-opinion polls that bullet-train backers crafted to gauge potential passenger interest were heavily biased. For example, 96 percent of commuters surveyed were already train riders. But unlike commuters in other states, only a tiny percentage of Californians rides the train.

Which brings us to the last element that a “rigorous analysis” must confirm before federal funds can flow: the “quality of planning process.” More than three years after voters approved the $9.95 billion bond measure, the HSRA still hasn’t determined who will operate the train once it’s built. A contractor? An existing state agency? A private-public partnership? Nobody knows. Adding to the chaos is a lack of leadership. Until Brown purged the rail authority’s management earlier this year, bullet-train officials assumed they were doing a great job, and that their public-relations firm was to blame for the project’s sinking support.

This ugly story could soon take a welcome turn. The U.S. Government Accountability Office confirmed on March 8 that it plans to launch its own audit of the California High Speed Rail Authority. The GAO would do well to begin its inquiry with Volume 174, number 19 of the Federal Register, specifically Federal Railroad Administration Docket 2009-0045. If those federal regulations truly have the force of law, then “Solyndra times seven” must die.

Chris Reed is an editorial writer for U-T San Diego (formerly the San Diego Union-Tribune) and proprietor of calwhine.com.


OzmO

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Re: Solyndra x 7 underway in California - WTF!!!
« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2012, 08:27:37 AM »
A bullet train is a pretty good idea if it's cost effective.   It could go from SF to LA to SD. 

Soul Crusher

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Re: Solyndra x 7 underway in California - WTF!!!
« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2012, 08:38:58 AM »
A bullet train is a pretty good idea if it's cost effective.   It could go from SF to LA to SD. 

Its not cost effective and is a ridiculous waste of money, did you read the facts above? 

OzmO

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Re: Solyndra x 7 underway in California - WTF!!!
« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2012, 09:20:38 AM »
Its not cost effective and is a ridiculous waste of money, did you read the facts above? 

No offense but I don't typically buy into the first article I read especially when it's under "comments"

It's basically an opinion piece.  I would rather get a more objective report on it before I immediately label it not cost effective.  Further more, a high speed rail is a great idea of it can lessen air traffic, pollution, is cheaper and make a profit.

Soul Crusher

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Re: Solyndra x 7 underway in California - WTF!!!
« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2012, 09:21:45 AM »
No offense but I don't typically buy into the first article I read especially when it's under "comments"

It's basically an opinion piece.  I would rather get a more objective report on it before I immediately label it not cost effective.  Further more, a high speed rail is a great idea of it can lessen air traffic, pollution, is cheaper and make a profit.

LMFAO! ! ! !   Talk about delusional - no wonder California is such a mess.   

OzmO

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Re: Solyndra x 7 underway in California - WTF!!!
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2012, 09:24:15 AM »
LMFAO! ! ! !   Talk about delusional - no wonder California is such a mess.  
So it's delusional to think a high speed train can't make a profit?

 ::)

Coming from you I am not surprised.   

Soul Crusher

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Re: Solyndra x 7 underway in California - WTF!!!
« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2012, 09:25:29 AM »
So it's delusional to think a high speed train can't make a profit?

 ::)

Coming from you I am not surprised.   


Yes it is delusional and ridiculous.   Its another collosal waste of money. 

Fury

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Re: Solyndra x 7 underway in California - WTF!!!
« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2012, 09:27:56 AM »
No offense but I don't typically buy into the first article I read especially when it's under "comments"

It's basically an opinion piece.  I would rather get a more objective report on it before I immediately label it not cost effective.  Further more, a high speed rail is a great idea of it can lessen air traffic, pollution, is cheaper and make a profit.

Bloomberg has written extensively on this. It is a COLOSSAL waste of money and the costs have already spiraled out of control and the project hasn't even started yet.

Eh, what do you care? You guys will just tax the rich. You know, those California millionaires whose numbers have decreased by 40% since 2008. Got to love a state of 50 million that lives and dies by its ability to tax a thousand of those people.  :D


George Whorewell

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Re: Solyndra x 7 underway in California - WTF!!!
« Reply #9 on: March 24, 2012, 09:43:49 AM »
Oz old buddy, I noticed that you have a very predictable ( but correctable) habit.

You play devils advocate in support of extremely stupid ideas when the opposition to those ideas doesn't coalesce with the scenario that you have already constructed in your mind ( without any actual facts or evidence to support your perception of the idea). If 333's article from the comments section doesn't satisfy your irrational lust for high speed rail, shall I post 5 or 6 more reputable links to articles that essentially say the same thing?

High Speed Rail ( which in this country means about 40mph) is a colossal boondoggle. It is well documented and indisputable.



OzmO

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Re: Solyndra x 7 underway in California - WTF!!!
« Reply #10 on: March 24, 2012, 07:01:33 PM »
Oz old buddy, I noticed that you have a very predictable ( but correctable) habit.
You play devils advocate in support of extremely stupid ideas when the opposition to those ideas doesn't coalesce with the scenario that you have already constructed in your mind ( without any actual facts or evidence to support your perception of the idea). If 333's article from the comments section doesn't satisfy your irrational lust for high speed rail, shall I post 5 or 6 more reputable links to articles that essentially say the same thing?
High Speed Rail ( which in this country means about 40mph) is a colossal boondoggle. It is well documented and indisputable.


The post them please do.  reread my original post.  "if" it's cost effective I think it's a great idea. 

I didn't say I think it's a great idea in spite of _______________ (assumption/ommittence  is a predictable pattern of yours)

Also, no offense again to 3333333, but he's frequently  intellectually dishonest and I don't immediately buy into a random posted article especially in the comments section of a site obviously skewed.

Just post the facts and leave the fluff and rhetoric out of it.  Make the point that way and I switch my position.

Until then:  if it's cost effective I think it's a great idea.

OzmO

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Re: Solyndra x 7 underway in California - WTF!!!
« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2012, 07:06:17 PM »
Bloomberg has written extensively on this. It is a COLOSSAL waste of money and the costs have already spiraled out of control and the project hasn't even started yet.

Eh, what do you care? You guys will just tax the rich. You know, those California millionaires whose numbers have decreased by 40% since 2008. Got to love a state of 50 million that lives and dies by its ability to tax a thousand of those people.  :D

I just spent an awesome day on the beach in Carlsbad.  California sucks. Lol.  :)

George Whorewell

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Re: Solyndra x 7 underway in California - WTF!!!
« Reply #12 on: March 24, 2012, 07:42:12 PM »
The post them please do.  reread my original post.  "if" it's cost effective I think it's a great idea. 

I didn't say I think it's a great idea in spite of _______________ (assumption/ommittence  is a predictable pattern of yours)

Also, no offense again to 3333333, but he's frequently  intellectually dishonest and I don't immediately buy into a random posted article especially in the comments section of a site obviously skewed.

Just post the facts and leave the fluff and rhetoric out of it.  Make the point that way and I switch my position.

Until then:  if it's cost effective I think it's a great idea.

The point is that it is not cost effective.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/joelkotkin/2011/02/18/obamas-high-speed-rail-obsession/

http://high-speedtraintalk.blogspot.com/2012/03/three-easy-pieces-on-high-speed-rail.html

http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2012/01/26/does-california-need-high-speed-rail/high-speed-rail-is-a-waste-of-money-for-decades-to-come

http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2010/10/29/why-high-speed-trains-don-t-make-sense.html

http://washingtonexaminer.com/politics/2011/01/high-speed-rail-fast-way-waste-taxpayer-money/109576

http://dailymail.com/Opinion/rsamuelson/201102130679

http://campaign2012.washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/more-failure-obamas-high-speed-rail-plans/291886

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/2012/01/16/obama039s_high_speed_rail_vision_crumbling_271368.html

http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,2047110,00.html


Soul Crusher

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Re: Solyndra x 7 underway in California - WTF!!!
« Reply #13 on: March 24, 2012, 08:28:31 PM »
The post them please do.  reread my original post.  "if" it's cost effective I think it's a great idea. 

I didn't say I think it's a great idea in spite of _______________ (assumption/ommittence  is a predictable pattern of yours)

Also, no offense again to 3333333, but he's frequently  intellectually dishonest and I don't immediately buy into a random posted article especially in the comments section of a site obviously skewed.

Just post the facts and leave the fluff and rhetoric out of it.  Make the point that way and I
Until then:  if it's cost effective I think it's a great idea.

Moron.   

OzmO

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Re: Solyndra x 7 underway in California - WTF!!!
« Reply #14 on: March 24, 2012, 09:01:58 PM »
Moron.   

Dude don't get all butt hurt.  You know very well you spin, slant and embellish often.  Addtionally many of the op Ed pieces you post are more slanted than a Chinese Clint Eastwood inpressionist. 


Soul Crusher

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Re: Solyndra x 7 underway in California - WTF!!!
« Reply #16 on: March 24, 2012, 09:05:13 PM »
Dude don't get all butt hurt.  You know very well you spin, slant and embellish often.  Addtionally many of the op Ed pieces you post are more slanted than a Chinese Clint Eastwood inpressionist. 

whatever - to a far leftist Obama voter, anything advocating the free market, freedom, capitalism, and sound economics is biased.

Soul Crusher

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Re: Solyndra x 7 underway in California - WTF!!!
« Reply #17 on: March 24, 2012, 09:06:11 PM »


Thanks GW I appreciated it.

Most sensible informed people knew this already. 

OzmO

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Re: Solyndra x 7 underway in California - WTF!!!
« Reply #18 on: March 24, 2012, 10:08:12 PM »
whatever - to a far leftist Obama voter, anything advocating the free market, freedom, capitalism, and sound economics is biased.

1.  I am not a far leftist OB voter
2.  The world isn't black or white
3.  You obviously can't see that.

OzmO

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Re: Solyndra x 7 underway in California - WTF!!!
« Reply #19 on: March 24, 2012, 10:12:39 PM »
Most sensible informed people knew this already. 

Sorry, again no offense, hard for me to take the "word" of someone who is a Birther, with out unbiased objective straight forward data.

Look at your approach to this:  mostly ridicule based

I don't pretend to know all the details about something.  So I don't immediately pick sides like a tool or robot. 

Soul Crusher

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Re: Solyndra x 7 underway in California - WTF!!!
« Reply #20 on: March 24, 2012, 10:13:55 PM »
1.  I am not a far leftist OB voter
2.  The world isn't black or white
3.  You obviously can't see that.

High speed rail in Cali as advocated by the govt has been known to be insane by most for years. 

Soul Crusher

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Re: Solyndra x 7 underway in California - WTF!!!
« Reply #21 on: March 24, 2012, 10:15:55 PM »
Sorry, again no offense, hard for me to take the "word" of someone who is a Birther, with out unbiased objective straight forward data.

Look at your approach to this:  mostly ridicule based

I don't pretend to know all the details about something.  So I don't immediately pick sides like a tool or robot. 

LOL - GW  posted links most of us knew about for years.  Welcome to the party. 

George Whorewell

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Re: Solyndra x 7 underway in California - WTF!!!
« Reply #22 on: March 25, 2012, 12:45:50 AM »


Thanks GW I appreciated it.

Anytime Slick.

You're a smart guy-- I just wish you were on our side.

Being partisan has its advantages when you're in the right.

I welcome you with open arms. When you're ready to join us-- I'm here.

Emmortal

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Re: Solyndra x 7 underway in California - WTF!!!
« Reply #23 on: March 25, 2012, 12:53:29 AM »
Things like high speed rail, universal health care, rainbows and unicorns are all fantastic things that will never work in the United States under our current form of government.

Nothing construed by the the US government has ever been "cost effective" so why would any of these projects or ideas somehow magically turn into ventures that actually make a profit, let alone break even?