anybody ever try ultra-lo cals while "on"?

[aesthetics]

how "bad" the low hdl levels are, depends on a lot of factors, but low hdl isn't necessarily a bad thing in itself and the only time it can become an issue is if your calories are excessive, specifically from a lot of junkfood and bad carb sources that leads to arteriosclerosis  

orals will absolutely murder your lipid profile in a very bad way though. injectables, not so much as test and others actually increase the efficiency of hdl in removing the "bad" cholesterol from your arteries and transporting it to your liver. the standard tests for analyzing lipid profiles are not an accurate way of gauging how healthy someone's cholesterol levels are, but as a general rule if someone is running orals, or drinking alcohol then it's probably "bad" unless they have cast-iron liver genetics, like buselmo has (i remember your posts about your cholesterol levels when on orals   )

[ritch]

I take this shit with a grain of salt. Anybody who believes this shit if fuckin' retarded beyond words. Your pussy ass light training and junk food diet is just you fuckin' with people who don't know any better. This is not how it's done, but hey, to those who doubt what I'm saying... Try it then tell me who's right.

[aesthetics]

I take this shit with a grain of salt. Anybody who believes this shit if fuckin' retarded beyond words. Your pussy ass light training and junk food diet is just you fuckin' with people who don't know any better. This is not how it's done, but hey, to those who doubt what I'm saying... Try it then tell me who's right.

depends on someone's definition of light training and junk food diet.

someone can eat fast food 7 times a week and still grow just fine - it's not healthy though, that's the only problem.

someone can also train with light weights, but if their intensity is high and they can still grow.

depends on genetics, really.

[AlphaMaleDawg]

how "bad" the low hdl levels are, depends on a lot of factors, but low hdl isn't necessarily a bad thing in itself and the only time it can become an issue is if your calories are excessive, specifically from a lot of junkfood and bad carb sources that leads to arteriosclerosis  

orals will absolutely murder your lipid profile in a very bad way though. injectables, not so much as test and others actually increase the efficiency of hdl in removing the "bad" cholesterol from your arteries and transporting it to your liver. the standard tests for analyzing lipid profiles are not an accurate way of gauging how healthy someone's cholesterol levels are, but as a general rule if someone is running orals, or drinking alcohol then it's probably "bad" unless they have cast-iron liver genetics, like buselmo has (i remember your posts about your cholesterol levels when on orals   )

I see. So you don' think there is anything wrong with having an HDL in the 15-30 range (scale >40) over the long term? This doesn't damage your heart over time? And 6 months of tren and test is what fucked up my HDL. I've stayed away from orals for close to a year now. I'm basically looking for an excuse to just stay on anabolic dosages without having to cruise much if you catch my drift. Since you definitely seem to know your shit, please shed some light on this

[chess315]

I take this shit with a grain of salt. Anybody who believes this shit if fuckin' retarded beyond words. Your pussy ass light training and junk food diet is just you fuckin' with people who don't know any better. This is not how it's done, but hey, to those who doubt what I'm saying... Try it then tell me who's right.

 I have ate absoulte shit and it really doesnt change anything one way or the other.  Eating  a lot does make you stronger and gives the impression of working by scale weight. I don't know about 1500-2000 calorie but asthetics is right 3,000 is a decent amount unless maybe your a highschool, college kid.  As far as safety upping the dose it is 100% proven overeating will kill you it is debatable 3grams of test will as all the ones that have problems on steroids are over eaters.
    If you weigh 250+ for 20years it doesnt take a expert to tell you your at risk for a heart attack or stroke. ie prowrestlers dropping like flies

[AlphaMaleDawg]

hi, AMD, i noticed you have been bit careless with diet and alc and never worried, then you went and did a blood test and were shocked.

same for me.

i know, gh15 says much stuff that makes sense, but to claim steroids dont make bloodwork any worse is insanity.

i have friends who have liver parameters skyhigh(120 instead of 40), bloodpressure ridiculously high etc, on moderate doses.and on no orals.

i had terrible blood work myself, eventhough i never use oral.nor do i do drugs, nor do i ever drink.

the only way i get a decent bloodwork is when i am on low dosages and on a clean diet.everything else will lead to catastrophic readings in my case.

ofc you feel good and well and strong, you cant feel it when cholesterol is bad, only a stroke is an undisputable, feelable sign, but by then ,its too late.

and yes, injectables only do increase liver parameters, god knows why, but they do
and my kidney paramenters are just within limits, any higher would be of concern.

there is no rule for everyone, some react well, some dont.
i dont think steroids are bad, but its a smart thing to have bloodwork checked every2,3 months.

thats my personal experience, maybe some get no sides on 5gramms weekly, i sure get sides even on 250mg test weekly if im not careful with my diet.

Careless is a poor term to describe it. My diet is generally good but I'll have a big junk meal high in protein/carbs/fats every day (something like fried chicken, mac n cheese, etc). Alcohol only certain times of the year I'll drink a good amount, other times I'll go weeks without a drop. Last night I had like 5 drinks at a happy hour but haven't drank since 3 weeks ago prior to this. Nothing unhealthy about this at all

Since I've been cruising, I've only injected 175mg test e on sundays and used 5iu hgh to try to maintain. I'm also taking a laundry list of OTC cholesterol supps. But I wonder why I do this when I am only going to blast again and everything will go back down again. Is there any long term build up of heart plaque by having cholesterol levels below the normal range? This is the question I can't seem to find an answer for

[AlphaMaleDawg]

to be honest, i think your cruising drug regiment is about what is manageable health wise long term.at least for me, that is the limit(okmaybe300mg test a week)

nobody will drop dead tomorow if they use more than that, but in my family, many had hearth issues, so i am careful about this all.

as for the cholesterol/cloging up arteries and heart, i dont know, but ill see my doctor soon and have bloodwork done and i will ask him and let you know.he knows what hes doing and is very honest.

on 300mg of test a week, my hdl still wouldn't climb above 32

You are lucky to have a doctor that will talk about that with you. I tried to explain to mine once and it was a complete disaster. Please let me know what he says

[Sector]

i've been on superdrol for 4 weeks now, and my arms have gone up 1.25 inches on each arm, but my waist has also shot up 2 full inches

this has my freaked out and feeling like a fatass, but the thing is, i really don't look that much fatter

i've been force-feeding myself since "on" and i realize that a good part of these 2 inches on my waistline is the direct result of what a friend of mine used to call "food in the gut" meaning that this waist size gain isn't fat so much but more like dis-ententsion of the gut from being stuffed so full of food on a regular basis

I have done the force feeding on PH cycles before, even though SD is strong there is no doubt that some of that is fat. No need to "force feed".

If I were to force feed I would easily eat 6-7k cals a day because frankly if I were to eat until full I would be at 5-5.5k consistently.

Some of it could be bloat from water if your diet is a little off but lets be real, 4 weeks of a PH and force feeding is going to lead to some fat gain.

[AlphaMaleDawg]

lol, yes, he is a good guy, he declared so many bbuilders gyno as not being the result of steroids when it clearly was, its hilarious.this results in a cost free operation, instead of paying something like 8k usd for that.

he is very open about steroids, but he will also tell ppl when its enough,i.e., when the bloodwork isnt right anymore.
he will even give dietary advise(not for growth, but to reduce symptoms).

my parameters are all ok at the start of a cycle, no problems for the first couple months, but the longer i go on, the worse things get.and that is without increasing the dosage.

i will ask him and let you know.if you have more questions you want me to ask him, let me know.feel free to send a pm.

i know it is very hard to find a doc who isnt histerical about steroid use

that is fucking awesome. I'll keep you in mind if I have any questions for when you hit up the doc. thanks

[dj181]

thanks for the feedback about the "force feeding" issue fellas

my problem is that i'm kind of an extreme kinda guy, meaning i'll either force-feed myself and eat 4,000-5,000 cals or strave myself and only eat 800-1000 cals

and as far as the waist size increase is concerned, i'm thinking that a good way to check this is by taking ab skinfolds

anyways, i'll try and eat more normally now

[lyquid]

that is fucking awesome. I'll keep you in mind if I have any questions for when you hit up the doc. thanks

I got one. Ask him why it hurts when my bf tickled my bum hole.

[Oly15]

Didn't do much for your spelling though ...

I'm the post police. Appointed by wes.

Not you.

[undertaker90]

Starting ultra low cals today will try this for two weeks then go back to my usual cutting at 2400-2700 kcal ED...

Starting today at 1300 kcal, 125g prot
Tomorrow and rest of the week will be closer to 1500 kcal and 140-160g prot i think this is more than enought..

I will also add some extra tren and little test to be safe..

75mg mast, 170mg tren a 50mg test p ED and 600mg primo EW, also upping my t3 from 50 mcg to 100mcg and upping my hgh from 5 iu to 10 iu... Lets see where it brings me.. i will have 700mg more roids in my system this 2 weeks, training 4 times a week....

[buselmo]

don't you think upping the gear dose like that is a little reckless as far as health goes? You've been doing this a long time and I've learned a lot from you. I imagine you have monitored bloodwork and things like that. Can you talk a little about the health aspect in your experience of high doses and long term usage?

ofcourse upping the dose is reckless... so is almost anything else bodybuilding related other than the training (IMHO, even the typical diets are shit... there's not much balance in them and waaay too much protein)
Even on a large dose of gear, i feel much better and have a lot less GI problems than when i use less than half the dose and eat like a typical bodybuilder... i.e. a pig.
my bloodwork has mostly been in the healthy range even after long cycles, and i've posted a couple of tests on promuscle where only my CK was in the high range, but that's because i worked out the day before the test. even my CBC was good after more than a year on cycle.

I have had much worse health scares when i started drinking again. mind you, I go on a couple of days of binging every 2-5 months or so. and my blood work looked much worse... looks much better a month after while still on cycle.
I wouldn't want to give the idea of steroids not having any health consequences... they do!... but they are mostly exaggerated, except for those who are genetically unfortunate.
if you stay clear of orals and fat burners and use them only sparingly, i truly believe you won't suffer anything serious and your blood work should look fine (again, unless you're genetically unfortunate)...
a lot of my friends have problems, now that we're in our 30's (none of them workout or use gear or anything like that)...  they have cholesterol problems, diabetes, some of them are anemic, fatty livers... etc. i'm probably the only one with just a simple blood pressure problem (again, hereditary)... so, imagine if these guys used gear... they'd be here preaching that high doses are disasterous blah blah blah...
and really... in this point in my life... i just wanna weigh less and eat less to be healthier... ask an honest doctor and he'll tell you that your health goes downhill after the age of 30. even if you take care of yourself (whatever that means)... you're bound to face some issues, with gear or without. alcohol, narcotics, lack of sleep, stress, overeating... these are killers. gear? i see the effect minimal if you are't really overdoing it (I see many guys here over do it... 3-5 grams, shit ton of GH, and on a ton of 'meds'... prescribed or not)
I've mentioned before that a lot of my immediate family members suffer from some serious health problems... the only 2 ppl who are healthy are me and my dad (we're 6 siblings, so, we're a lot! LOL)...
as far as blood work is concerned, i've never experienced anything alarming (neither have any of my trainees except for thsoe who had them worse before using gear)
as far as how i feel... the worse i've ever felt was on the following:
- compensating gear for diet (as in, eating 3500 cals to start cutting while i'm 200 lbs and only on 750 mg or less... or even clean at the time... i felt like absolute crap and felt very, very, very unhealthy)
- using a ton of fat burners in a magical way (last time i was on a ton i was not eating much food and felt ok... still very high resting heart rate, but nothing like a lot of fat burners with a high cal diet... high cal to me is anything over 10 x bw in lbs)
- not being sober for 2 days straight and only sleeping less than 10 hours in those 2 days... lol... yeah, that felt like death. I was this close to going to the ER from the way i felt... and i haven't seen a doctor (other than for trying to schedule a tonsilectomy, or getting a doctors note) in over 12 years.)

that post was long... LOL

[dj181]

Starting ultra low cals today will try this for two weeks then go back to my usual cutting at 2400-2700 kcal ED...

Starting today at 1300 kcal, 125g prot
Tomorrow and rest of the week will be closer to 1500 kcal and 140-160g prot i think this is more than enought..

I will also add some extra tren and little test to be safe..

75mg mast, 170mg tren a 50mg test p ED and 600mg primo EW, also upping my t3 from 50 mcg to 100mcg and upping my hgh from 5 iu to 10 iu... Lets see where it brings me.. i will have 700mg more roids in my system this 2 weeks, training 4 times a week....

sounds good man, let us know how it works

[undertaker90]

up the protein or get off the t3.

Why do you think i should up the protein bro ??

[undertaker90]

as you only needs 15g extra protein to gain 75g muscle ED and the gaer will have me in positive nitrogen balance, as with the anti catabolic tren a gives.... why should i need more protein ??  same as mike mentzer only used 60g prot for his prep, and he was way bigger than me!!

[muscle19]

probable to add extra calories on your diet but if your gaining lean mass, no need to increase protein in take.

Your tren dose is good for ED, I would just increase the test to 100 at least, how do you like the primo?

[AlphaMaleDawg]

ofcourse upping the dose is reckless... so is almost anything else bodybuilding related other than the training (IMHO, even the typical diets are shit... there's not much balance in them and waaay too much protein)
Even on a large dose of gear, i feel much better and have a lot less GI problems than when i use less than half the dose and eat like a typical bodybuilder... i.e. a pig.
my bloodwork has mostly been in the healthy range even after long cycles, and i've posted a couple of tests on promuscle where only my CK was in the high range, but that's because i worked out the day before the test. even my CBC was good after more than a year on cycle.

I have had much worse health scares when i started drinking again. mind you, I go on a couple of days of binging every 2-5 months or so. and my blood work looked much worse... looks much better a month after while still on cycle.
I wouldn't want to give the idea of steroids not having any health consequences... they do!... but they are mostly exaggerated, except for those who are genetically unfortunate.
if you stay clear of orals and fat burners and use them only sparingly, i truly believe you won't suffer anything serious and your blood work should look fine (again, unless you're genetically unfortunate)...
a lot of my friends have problems, now that we're in our 30's (none of them workout or use gear or anything like that)...  they have cholesterol problems, diabetes, some of them are anemic, fatty livers... etc. i'm probably the only one with just a simple blood pressure problem (again, hereditary)... so, imagine if these guys used gear... they'd be here preaching that high doses are disasterous blah blah blah...
and really... in this point in my life... i just wanna weigh less and eat less to be healthier... ask an honest doctor and he'll tell you that your health goes downhill after the age of 30. even if you take care of yourself (whatever that means)... you're bound to face some issues, with gear or without. alcohol, narcotics, lack of sleep, stress, overeating... these are killers. gear? i see the effect minimal if you are't really overdoing it (I see many guys here over do it... 3-5 grams, shit ton of GH, and on a ton of 'meds'... prescribed or not)
I've mentioned before that a lot of my immediate family members suffer from some serious health problems... the only 2 ppl who are healthy are me and my dad (we're 6 siblings, so, we're a lot! LOL)...
as far as blood work is concerned, i've never experienced anything alarming (neither have any of my trainees except for thsoe who had them worse before using gear)
as far as how i feel... the worse i've ever felt was on the following:
- compensating gear for diet (as in, eating 3500 cals to start cutting while i'm 200 lbs and only on 750 mg or less... or even clean at the time... i felt like absolute crap and felt very, very, very unhealthy)
- using a ton of fat burners in a magical way (last time i was on a ton i was not eating much food and felt ok... still very high resting heart rate, but nothing like a lot of fat burners with a high cal diet... high cal to me is anything over 10 x bw in lbs)
- not being sober for 2 days straight and only sleeping less than 10 hours in those 2 days... lol... yeah, that felt like death. I was this close to going to the ER from the way i felt... and i haven't seen a doctor (other than for trying to schedule a tonsilectomy, or getting a doctors note) in over 12 years.)

that post was long... LOL

good post, and it tells me that we are all very different when it comes to genetic health. I have bloodwork problems but my blood pressure is picture perfect, so we are opposites in that regard. Also high calorie diets have no effect of my health like it does yours lol

[undertaker90]

i dont need to add much more lean mass, and this is also just to test it how it works if i loose some muscle i dont care its realy just to find out how this will work and maybi use it later and adjust to my own needs..
Primo is good, been doing 1,5g switched back to tren and lowered the primo dose 8 days ago...
i find primo real good to maintain muscle mass while lowering my blood presure..

I also believe that a diet low in calories will make you healthier on gear.. but thats just me...

[muscle19]

when I was younger and heavy into partying, I noticed some issues while on gear, BP was throught the roof and would get bright red in face when drinking and of course on cycle...would do drugs like X, sometimes coke and liked adderral, def not good for body...made alot of mistakes but learn from them. I only get drunk maybe 3-4 times a year, dont do ANY hard core drugs and havent for many years (only smoke pot) and no pills what soever...

[Mr Nobody]

ofcourse upping the dose is reckless... so is almost anything else bodybuilding related other than the training (IMHO, even the typical diets are shit... there's not much balance in them and waaay too much protein)
Even on a large dose of gear, i feel much better and have a lot less GI problems than when i use less than half the dose and eat like a typical bodybuilder... i.e. a pig.
my bloodwork has mostly been in the healthy range even after long cycles, and i've posted a couple of tests on promuscle where only my CK was in the high range, but that's because i worked out the day before the test. even my CBC was good after more than a year on cycle.

I have had much worse health scares when i started drinking again. mind you, I go on a couple of days of binging every 2-5 months or so. and my blood work looked much worse... looks much better a month after while still on cycle.
I wouldn't want to give the idea of steroids not having any health consequences... they do!... but they are mostly exaggerated, except for those who are genetically unfortunate.
if you stay clear of orals and fat burners and use them only sparingly, i truly believe you won't suffer anything serious and your blood work should look fine (again, unless you're genetically unfortunate)...
a lot of my friends have problems, now that we're in our 30's (none of them workout or use gear or anything like that)...  they have cholesterol problems, diabetes, some of them are anemic, fatty livers... etc. i'm probably the only one with just a simple blood pressure problem (again, hereditary)... so, imagine if these guys used gear... they'd be here preaching that high doses are disasterous blah blah blah...
and really... in this point in my life... i just wanna weigh less and eat less to be healthier... ask an honest doctor and he'll tell you that your health goes downhill after the age of 30. even if you take care of yourself (whatever that means)... you're bound to face some issues, with gear or without. alcohol, narcotics, lack of sleep, stress, overeating... these are killers. gear? i see the effect minimal if you are't really overdoing it (I see many guys here over do it... 3-5 grams, shit ton of GH, and on a ton of 'meds'... prescribed or not)
I've mentioned before that a lot of my immediate family members suffer from some serious health problems... the only 2 ppl who are healthy are me and my dad (we're 6 siblings, so, we're a lot! LOL)...
as far as blood work is concerned, i've never experienced anything alarming (neither have any of my trainees except for thsoe who had them worse before using gear)
as far as how i feel... the worse i've ever felt was on the following:
- compensating gear for diet (as in, eating 3500 cals to start cutting while i'm 200 lbs and only on 750 mg or less... or even clean at the time... i felt like absolute crap and felt very, very, very unhealthy)
- using a ton of fat burners in a magical way (last time i was on a ton i was not eating much food and felt ok... still very high resting heart rate, but nothing like a lot of fat burners with a high cal diet... high cal to me is anything over 10 x bw in lbs)
- not being sober for 2 days straight and only sleeping less than 10 hours in those 2 days... lol... yeah, that felt like death. I was this close to going to the ER from the way i felt... and i haven't seen a doctor (other than for trying to schedule a tonsilectomy, or getting a doctors note) in over 12 years.)

that post was long... LOL

Good post.

[evser]

I know diet is very important for good cholesterol, but do you guys incorporate cardio as well? I do 30 minutes of cardio after every workout bulking or cutting and it really helps with lowering bp and cholesterol.

[SL1CED]

I know diet is very important for good cholesterol, but do you guys incorporate cardio as well? I do 30 minutes of cardio after every workout bulking or cutting and it really helps with lowering bp and cholesterol.

Absolutely, just for general reasons.

[dj181]

when you fellas say "cardio" what do you mean exactly?

for me "cardio" is going for a very hard 20 min run wit 6:30 to 7:00 min per mile pace

again, i'm an all or nothing kind of guy, i either go out and run til i drop or just sit around on my ass all day long lol

for me, it's goofy and ridiculous to walk at 4 mile per hour on a 3% incline on the treadmill, i think that's for old-timers or fat bitches

sorry fellas, i don't mean to offend