Author Topic: Liberals in panic over beating taken at the Supreme Court on ObamaCare  (Read 1356 times)

Soul Crusher

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A supreme shock for ‘La-La’ libs
By JOHN PODHORETZ



Last Updated: 12:15 AM, March 29, 2012





The panicked reception in the mainstream media of the three-day Supreme Court health-care marathon is a delightful reminder of the nearly impenetrable parochialism of American liberals.

They’re so convinced of their own correctness — and so determined to believe conservatives are either a) corrupt, b) stupid or c) deluded — that they find themselves repeatedly astonished to discover conservatives are in fact capable of a) advancing and defending their own powerful arguments, b) effectively countering weak liberal arguments and c) exposing the soft underbelly of liberal self-satisfaction as they do so.

That’s what happened this week. There appears to be no question in the mind of anyone who read the transcripts or listened to the oral arguments that the conservative lawyers and justices made mincemeat out of the Obama administration’s advocates and the liberal members of the court.

This came as a startling shock to the liberals who write about the court.

Jeffrey Toobin of the New Yorker and CNN confidently asserted on Charlie Rose at the beginning of the week that the court would rule 7-2, maybe even 8-1 in favor of ObamaCare. The previous week, he called the anti-ObamaCare arguments “really weak.”

His view was echoed by an equally confident op-ed assertion by the veteran court reporter Linda Greenhouse, who in The New York Times declared the case against ObamaCare “analytically so weak that it dissolves on close inspection.”

It was quite a change, then, to see Toobin emerge almost hysterical from the Supreme Court chamber after two hours of argument on Tuesday and declare the proceedings “a train wreck for the Obama administration.”

Yesterday, after another two hours of argument, he suggested it might even be a “plane wreck.”

That was the general consensus across the board. It held that the two lawyers arguing against ObamaCare — Paul Clement and Michael Carvin — were dazzlingly effective, while the administration’s solicitor general, Donald Verrilli, put in a mediocre performance.

True enough. But here’s the thing: There was nothing new in what Clement and Carvin said.

Their arguments were featured in briefs already submitted to the court and available for general inspection. And they’d already been given weight by the two judicial opinions against the constitutionality of ObamaCare issued by federal district court judges — one by Henry Hudson in Virginia in December 2010, the other by Roger Vinson in Florida in January 2011.

The briefs exist. The decisions exist. You can Google them. They are strong, fluent, well-reasoned and legitimate. They take ObamaCare seriously, and they argue against it at the highest possible level.

Thus, the strength of the conservative arguments only came as a surprise to Toobin, Greenhouse and others because they evidently spent two years putting their fingers in their ears and singing, “La la la, I’m not listening” whenever the conservative argument was being advanced.

This is not to say that the pro-ObamaCare side had no arguments. It had plenty of arguments, and by far the most important interlocutor on its behalf was Justice Sonia Sotomayor. Her perceptive and crystal-clear questioning of Clement and Carvin should put to rest forever the idea (spread both by liberals and conservatives) that she is intellectually unworthy to serve on the nation’s highest court.

The defense of ObamaCare’s constitutionality relies mainly on the truism that everyone is sure to get sick at some point in their lives, and this makes the health-care market unlike any other market. For the liberals, this fact — bolstered by the Constitution’s Commerce Clause — gives Congress the power to compel every adult in the nation to buy a private health-insurance policy.

The attack on ObamaCare was that Congress does not have the power under the Commerce Clause to force a private citizen into a private contractual relationship. If such a thing is permitted to stand, the anti-ObamaCare forces argue, there will be no limit to Congress’s power in the future.

There’s no telling which of 10 possible ways the high court will finally rule. But one thing is for certain: There will again come a time when liberals and conservatives disagree on a fundamental intellectual matter. Conservatives will take liberals and their arguments seriously and try to find the best way to argue the other side.

And the liberals will put their fingers in their ears and sing, “La la la.”

jpodhoretz@gmail.com



Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/opedcolumnists/supreme_shock_for_la_la_libs_LkWBvHWTzeCs4gvA3hdHKJ#ixzz1qWZivF00


240 is Back

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to spin it tho -

most people had not yet FELT that crap that would have been obamacare, come 2013.  We know it would have sucked and spiked prrices everywhere.  HOWEVER, with a loss, obama/dems can say "we could have enjoyed all the benefits starting next year - now we'll never know"

And, for the next decade, every time someone is rejected for a pre-existing condition, or prices go up, dems will be able to say "woudl have happened with obamacare..." and you can't prove it wouldn't have.

Sure, you'll have repubs saying "but it was GOING to suck!"  however, if you take it away, and don't create and initiate an alternative, you're just going to be the guy who took stale bread from a starving man.

So my opinion is, while obamacare would have sucked, repubs will now own the healthcare void.

Soul Crusher

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to spin it tho -

most people had not yet FELT that crap that would have been obamacare, come 2013.  We know it would have sucked and spiked prrices everywhere.  HOWEVER, with a loss, obama/dems can say "we could have enjoyed all the benefits starting next year - now we'll never know"

And, for the next decade, every time someone is rejected for a pre-existing condition, or prices go up, dems will be able to say "woudl have happened with obamacare..." and you can't prove it wouldn't have.

Sure, you'll have repubs saying "but it was GOING to suck!"  however, if you take it away, and don't create and initiate an alternative, you're just going to be the guy who took stale bread from a starving man.

So my opinion is, while obamacare would have sucked, repubs will now own the healthcare void.




Whatever - you want to be a slave to govt and obama - have it.   


Others like myself value our freedom instead. 


Obama dildos like yourself simply are incapable if reality any longer.  you really should be ashamed of yourself the last four years for what you have defended.  I once thought you were a shadow of your former self, but even that shadow is finished. 

Shockwave

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Whatever - you want to be a slave to govt and obama - have it.   


Others like myself value our freedom instead. 


Obama dildos like yourself simply are incapable if reality any longer.  you really should be ashamed of yourself the last four years for what you have defended.  I once thought you were a shadow of your former self, but even that shadow is finished. 
I agree with this. I dont know what happened to the old "government stay the fuck out of my life Rob", but this new Rob is a fucking failure.
The old Rob would have shot whoever the fuck is running around in his body.

Most people get more conservative as they get older, they realize life is about dealing with REALITY, not living in a fantasy land of idealism.... Not 240, he's working backwards.

Fury

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I agree with this. I dont know what happened to the old "government stay the fuck out of my life Rob", but this new Rob is a fucking failure.
The old Rob would have shot whoever the fuck is running around in his body.

Most people get more conservative as they get older, they realize life is about dealing with REALITY, not living in a fantasy land of idealism.... Not 240, he's working backwards.


This is what happens when you spend 12 hours a day watching MSDNC.

240 is Back

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Whatever - you want to be a slave to govt and obama - have it.  
Others like myself value our freedom instead.  
Obama dildos like yourself simply are incapable if reality any longer.  you really should be ashamed of yourself the last four years for what you have defended.  I once thought you were a shadow of your former self, but even that shadow is finished.  

Dude,, instead of spending a paragraph dissing me -

tell me how dems won't point to this as "look, we gave you healthcare that would have fixed things in 2013, but repubs and repub SCOTUS took it from you"

I don't say it is correct, I say that is what they'll do.  No, politically astute posters like yourself know obamacare would have been a mess in 2013 when it kicked in, but I dont think the average voter konws that.   It's stale bread to starving people - The average person who can't get insurance in 2013 is going to ask the govt why.

and..

Dems will say "you would have, but repubs took it from you.
Repubs will say "_______________"

What will repubs say, 333386?  We took away something that wouldn't work but didn't give you something else?

They took away stale bread, 33, and left ppl hungry (remember I"m against obamacare, but IMO unless repubs issue 5-10 new bills next week with smaller solutions ficxing some of the issues, they OWN THAT VOID".

240 is Back

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I agree with this. I dont know what happened to the old "government stay the fuck out of my life Rob", but this new Rob is a fucking failure.
The old Rob would have shot whoever the fuck is running around in his body.

Most people get more conservative as they get older, they realize life is about dealing with REALITY, not living in a fantasy land of idealism.... Not 240, he's working backwards.


I'm against obamacare.  What i'm saying here is that repubs are going to need to fill this void.  Cuase there's the truth, then there is the perception that people will have. 

Soul Crusher

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I argue based on what is constitutional and economically sound - i dont give a damn about the crap these politicians try to sell me.

 

Shockwave

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I'm against obamacare.  What i'm saying here is that repubs are going to need to fill this void.  Cuase there's the truth, then there is the perception that people will have. 
I understand what youre saying in this thread. That the Dem's will have years of ammo.
Im not talking about that. Im talking about YOU.

240 is Back

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I understand what youre saying in this thread. That the Dem's will have years of ammo.
Im not talking about that. Im talking about YOU.

hey, i'm an emotional, immature, indecisive dude who likes to argue and create good points - and see if people can back up their beliefs with more than just 'obama sucks'.  it works often, and we get some really good destroying of dem policy, and we know WHY it sucks.

I like the shady political ramifications of events and bills more than the events themselves.  Repubs got the SCOTUS to overturn a shitty bill before it kicked in - to me, that huge.  Takes away GOp momentum from the candidate promising to repeal it on day 1.  Puts any healthcare problems for next 10 years in GOP's lap.  huge defeat for obama, and will he embrace it or hide from it?  COuld work or fail either way.

yeah, I bounce around politically, I was the biggest GOP supporter, gloating when Bush stole that shit in 2000, gloating when Kerry got the ohio shaft.  Yeah, seeing 911 fishiness changed that for me. 

Fury

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Re: Liberals in panic over beating taken at the Supreme Court on ObamaCare
« Reply #10 on: March 29, 2012, 10:15:24 AM »
What ammo will the Dems have? The overwhelming majority of this country wants Obamacare REPEALED. The Dems won't go near it with a 10-foot pole.

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Re: Liberals in panic over beating taken at the Supreme Court on ObamaCare
« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2012, 11:14:53 AM »
What ammo will the Dems have? The overwhelming majority of this country wants Obamacare REPEALED. The Dems won't go near it with a 10-foot pole.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/health_care_law

56% of americans want it repealed, correct.

Skip8282

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Re: Liberals in panic over beating taken at the Supreme Court on ObamaCare
« Reply #12 on: March 29, 2012, 04:55:52 PM »
What ammo will the Dems have? The overwhelming majority of this country wants Obamacare REPEALED. The Dems won't go near it with a 10-foot pole.



I don't think so much ammo as I agree they will try to stay away.  But the majority also support real reform in Healthcare, so I'm thinking it's going to be important for Republicans to at least make a significant effort to offer up some change.

MM2K

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Re: Liberals in panic over beating taken at the Supreme Court on ObamaCare
« Reply #13 on: March 30, 2012, 12:38:49 AM »


I don't think so much ammo as I agree they will try to stay away.  But the majority also support real reform in Healthcare, so I'm thinking it's going to be important for Republicans to at least make a significant effort to offer up some change.

Skip, you seem like a fairminded person. I know youre not an Obamabot or anything like that and that you have always been skeptical of Obamacare, but quite frankly Im sick and tired of hearing "Oh the Republicans had better come up with some reform". Look what rushing into reform got us. We got into this stupid mess because busybody utopians thought 30 million uninsured people out of 300 million was the great tragedy of our lives (the real number is only 15 million or so).

The Republicans have always had solutions to healthcare but nobody wants to hear them because they are not exciting and involve some short term pain. People dont want to hear that thier premiums are up because those "greedy" insurance companies are being forced to cover autism.

The truth is not good enough for people. That is why politicians lie and things never get done.
Jan. Jobs: 36,000!!

Soul Crusher

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Re: Liberals in panic over beating taken at the Supreme Court on ObamaCare
« Reply #14 on: March 30, 2012, 05:00:53 AM »
Skip, you seem like a fairminded person. I know youre not an Obamabot or anything like that and that you have always been skeptical of Obamacare, but quite frankly Im sick and tired of hearing "Oh the Republicans had better come up with some reform". Look what rushing into reform got us. We got into this stupid mess because busybody utopians thought 30 million uninsured people out of 300 million was the great tragedy of our lives (the real number is only 15 million or so).

The Republicans have always had solutions to healthcare but nobody wants to hear them because they are not exciting and involve some short term pain. People dont want to hear that thier premiums are up because those "greedy" insurance companies are being forced to cover autism.

The truth is not good enough for people. That is why politicians lie and things never get done.


The government created the disaster they now seek to expand, compel, and regulate. 

Only a complete communist progressive nut job thinks obamacare is a good thing.   

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Re: Liberals in panic over beating taken at the Supreme Court on ObamaCare
« Reply #15 on: March 30, 2012, 07:01:24 AM »
to spin it tho -

most people had not yet FELT that crap that would have been obamacare, come 2013.  We know it would have sucked and spiked prrices everywhere.  HOWEVER, with a loss, obama/dems can say "we could have enjoyed all the benefits starting next year - now we'll never know"

So my opinion is, while obamacare would have sucked, repubs will now own the healthcare void.

According to the Democratic talking heads, this plan was the same plan offered years ago by Republicans. They love to remind people that this is a GOP plan. But, why did the plan not pass when Republicans put it for vote?

Obviously, the plan is terrible. Yes, something needs to be done about health care, but this plan is not the correct solution. Democrats just wanted to put something out there and didn't care about the consequences.

If "owning" the healthcare is putting together any ill conceived legislation that comes to mind, then it will be easy for Republicans.


MM2K

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Re: Liberals in panic over beating taken at the Supreme Court on ObamaCare
« Reply #16 on: March 30, 2012, 09:51:08 AM »
And Obama used to be against the mandate, so what does that tell people. Both sides of been on both sides of this issue. What matters is who pulled the trigger.
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Soul Crusher

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Re: Liberals in panic over beating taken at the Supreme Court on ObamaCare
« Reply #17 on: March 30, 2012, 09:52:11 AM »
And Obama used to be against the mandate, so what does that tell people. Both sides of been on both sides of this issue. What matters is who pulled the trigger.

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/justice-breyer-obamacare-i-haven-t-read-every-word-i-promise

Read and vomit. 

OzmO

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Re: Liberals in panic over beating taken at the Supreme Court on ObamaCare
« Reply #18 on: March 30, 2012, 09:55:59 AM »
This kind of shit makes me sick.  Cant we just clean out whole dam house and start over?  (Keeping RP though)

Soul Crusher

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