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Author Topic: Death Blow to the US Dollar  (Read 22323 times)
avxo
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« Reply #75 on: May 02, 2012, 02:21:34 PM »

Your doubts about my ability to acquire gold at less than $1500 oz or even free, do not in my estimation amount to sufficient reasons to acquire it from you via a speculative future transaction.

That's a fair point.

There is no doubt in my mind of about what my options are with Karatbars, I know what I can get via Karatbars, and what they are worth, so again I ask for all the reasons specified above, why would I acquire it from you in the manner you propose?

I'll answer your question in a second. I understand that you don't want to engage in a speculative future transaction, but I assume that hinges only on the issue of whether I can actually produce the gold, if the conditions are met. So let's play a game, shall we?

Let's assume, arguendo, that I have the 100 ounces of physical gold held in a secure storage facility that you approve of. Let's further assume that I am willing to enter into a contract with you that says: "In exchange for $10,000 paid on May 2nd, 2012, avxo agrees to deliver, on demand by 24KT, a total of 100 ounces of gold, at any time after the price of gold exceeds $10,000 per ounce. avxo irrevocably agrees to allow the secure gold storage facility to store the 100 ounces of gold and hold them in escrow. If avxo fails to deliver 100 ounces of gold to 24KT on demand after the price of gold exceeds $10,000 per ounce, the facility is authorized to transfer ownership of the 100 ounces of gold to 24KT."

Surely, if you actually believe that gold will hint $20,000 per ounce (an estimate you called conservative) then this is a great deal for you: you will be buying 100 ounces of gold at $100 per ounce; this is a ridiculous discount over current spot price of ~$1600 per ounce. The last time that gold was at $100 was almost 20 years ago!

So would you then be willing to enter into a contract? If not, why?


Gee whiz Avxo, if you're going to disparage something

I didn't disparage anything. I know nothing about Karatbars, and don't feel inclined to learn about them, since I have no intention of purchasing gold at the current astronomical prices. I assumed, for the purposes of this example, that it was some kind of electronically transferrable currency backed by gold. Big deal...

[...] KaratbarsTM are trademarked 999.9% pure 24kt gold bullion bars

999.9%? Really? Damn, that's impressive. Every ounce of it must contain like 9.999 ounces of gold!


For the first time, Gold has become afforable for the masses.

At $1700 an ounce, I'd hardly call it affordable. And I certainly wouldn't call it sensible. But to each their own.


I do expect it to happen. What I don't know is when? Infact, I think it is quite reasonable for it to even go higher than that. as to when... well, that's a crap shoot. But in the meantime, whether it gets there in my lifetime, or in my grandchildren's lifetime, I do know that gold in the meantime will serve as a secure store of value.

So you should jump at the opportunity to buy it at the deep discount I'm offering. Again, assume I have the gold and am willing to keep it in escrow for you. You pay $10,000 now and you get 100 ounces of gold as soon as gold exceeds $10,000 per ounce. Again, you'd effectively be paying $100 per ounce!


Oh Avxo, stop. you're making me giggle uncontrollably now. I told you my terms. ...and your math is fuzzy. Cheesy

My math isn't fuzzy at all. I'm willing to sell you 100 ounces of gold for $10,000 -> ($10,000) / (100 ounces) = $100 per ounce.


As I stated before, I'm not into speculative futures trading.

As I said, I can respect that. But surely, such a deep discount is too good to pass up. Remember, gold was at $100 per ounce was in 1974 - almost 40 years ago! I'm offering a deal that's hard to beat! Unless you don't think that buying at $100 per ounce isn't a good investment!


I hope you won't take offense by this, but how do I even know you will be able to get gold either now or in the future?

No, I don't take offense at all. It's a perfectly valid concern. Again, assume that I have 100 ounces of gold stored in escrow, and that if I don't hold up my end of the bargain, a phone call to the storage facility will release the 100 ounces of gold held in escrow to you.


You say you're willing to put your money where your mouth is, ...but from what I can see, I'm the only one being asked to put up any cash. lol. Cheesy

It's true that I don't have to put up cash right now - but I would have to eventually. But if that's your major concern, assume I have the 100 ounces held under the previously described escrow arrangement.


If the numbers scare you, I have another idea. I have 2 1 oz gold canadian maple leaf coins in front of me. I am willing to allow a board member we both trust to hold onto them for 5 years. You pay me $500 by PayPal, and if at any time in the next 5 years the price of gold exceeds $5,000 / ounce, the coins are yours for the $500 you sent: effectively, you'd buy gold at $250 per ounce. If, on the other hand, gold doesn't cross the $5,000 per ounce mark in the 5 year period, I get to keep the coins and the money. How's that sound?

[Update: Hell, I'm, willing to get 2 ounces of "Karatbars" if you don't like Maples. Same deal. We can even keep them online using whatever storage gold bar - a company you trust - offers.]

Again, I understand you say you're not into speculation (although, in reality you are: whenever you buy an asset thinking it's low, you're engaging in speculative behavior). But surely there's some combination of the numbers at which you're willing to speculate. What is it?
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« Reply #76 on: May 02, 2012, 05:19:55 PM »

That's a fair point.

I'll answer your question in a second. I understand that you don't want to engage in a speculative future transaction, but I assume that hinges only on the issue of whether I can actually produce the gold, if the conditions are met. So let's play a game, shall we?

You just don't stop do you? I thought we were already playing a game. The "See how long avxo can keep coming up with wild scenarios before I pee my panties with laughter" game. no? Huh

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Let's assume, arguendo, that I have the 100 ounces of physical gold held in a secure storage facility that you approve of. Let's further assume that I am willing to enter into a contract with you that says: "In exchange for $10,000 paid on May 2nd, 2012, avxo agrees to deliver, on demand by 24KT, a total of 100 ounces of gold, at any time after the price of gold exceeds $10,000 per ounce. avxo irrevocably agrees to allow the secure gold storage facility to store the 100 ounces of gold and hold them in escrow. If avxo fails to deliver 100 ounces of gold to 24KT on demand after the price of gold exceeds $10,000 per ounce, the facility is authorized to transfer ownership of the 100 ounces of gold to 24KT."

Dude your numbers keep going down. Shocked What happened to 1,000 oz of gold? Shocked I don't like it when a guy goes down on me. {psssst: Well, actually I do, ...but not when they do it with numbers.} Grin

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Surely, if you actually believe that gold will hint $20,000 per ounce (an estimate you called conservative) then this is a great deal for you: you will be buying 100 ounces of gold at $100 per ounce; this is a ridiculous discount over current spot price of ~$1600 per ounce. The last time that gold was at $100 was almost 20 years ago!

So would you then be willing to enter into a contract?


No I would not

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If not, why?

I am tempted to say the reason is ..."because it's Wednesday" Cheesy
Meaning = My money, my reasons, my choices & my decision. If I don't want to share them with you, ...any 'ole excuse will do! Grin

...but I won't go that route. I'll simply re-iterate as I told you previously, Physical Gold acquisition for me is not a speculative investment? it is a safe haven. A store of value of the money I currenctly have. It's not something to wheel & deal, ...or "make market moves" to make money, ...it is about preserving the value & purchasing power of the money I currently have in a form that allows me maximum protection, as well as flexibility. It is a straight exchange of worth-less fiat paper, for hard money. What you are proposing is a bet, that ties up my bad money (which at the moment is still being accepted) for 5 yrs in order to gamble on a time line of which I am not confident. I am confident about gold's movement... just not when it will occur. Tieing any amount of money up in escrow or otherwise in a medium, form, or fashion that is not highly liquidateable if need be, would be in my opinion counter to my particular strategy. It would be tantamount to parking money in a CD that I couldn't touch, all the while inflation eats away at it's value. I am confident gold will rise, over the long term, I believe GOLD has to revalue, and that true price discovery is inevitable, ...but as I said previously, when that will be, I do not know. Who is to say it will occur during the next 5 years? it could, ...but it may not. it could take 6 years. If I made such a bet with you and it took 6 years, that would certainly suck for me wouldn't it? All indicators tell me there isn't much further the FED or the ECB can go, and I know the Obama admin intends to destroy the dollar, and the BIS & the IMF are just itching to introduce their SDRs to the world, but I only do my gambling at Caesars, and only at the Black Jack table.


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I didn't disparage anything. I know nothing about Karatbars, and don't feel inclined to learn about them, since I have no intention of purchasing gold at the current astronomical prices. I assumed, for the purposes of this example, that it was some kind of electronically transferrable currency backed by gold. Big deal...

It's not backed by gold, ...it is GOLD! 999.9% pure 24kt monetary gold



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999.9%? Really? Damn, that's impressive. Every ounce of it must contain like 9.999 ounces of gold!

There you go again with your fuzzy math. Grin

Yes it is impressive, ...very impressive.


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At $1700 an ounce, I'd hardly call it affordable. And I certainly wouldn't call it sensible. But to each their own.

it is extremely affordable for the masses, because one is not required to acquire multiple ounces at a time.

it works just like your current fiat paper currency savings account. like the one you have at Wells Fargo, citibank, Bank of America etc., you make regular discretionary bank deposits when you want, and your account balance accrues in dollars & cents, or euro, or yen, or whatever denomination the account is in. It's the same with your KaratbarsTM account. You make regular discretionary deposits whenever you choose, except, instead of your balance accrueing in dollars & cents, your account balance accrues in grams, and ounces, and kilos etc., etc., It's quite affordable for the masses, because one can make a deposit of as little as 50 euro, or approx $65 US dollars, and start accumulating GOLD 1 gram at a time. Using a dollar cost averaging approach as Swiss investor Marc Faber recommends, an individual can start accumulating GOLD as a way to safeguard and protect their purchasing power... for less than $20 a week. Everyone can afford that.


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So you should jump at the opportunity to buy it at the deep discount I'm offering. Again, assume I have the gold and am willing to keep it in escrow for you. You pay $10,000 now and you get 100 ounces of gold as soon as gold exceeds $10,000 per ounce. Again, you'd effectively be paying $100 per ounce!


My math isn't fuzzy at all. I'm willing to sell you 100 ounces of gold for $10,000 -> ($10,000) / (100 ounces) = $100 per ounce.

LOL, What part of I don't engage in speculative futures did you not understand?


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As I said, I can respect that. But surely, such a deep discount is too good to pass up. Remember, gold was at $100 per ounce was in 1974 - almost 40 years ago! I'm offering a deal that's hard to beat! Unless you don't think that buying at $100 per ounce isn't a good investment!

avxo, have you not heard? "Greed is one of the 7 Deadly Sins." If gold goes above $10,000/oz, I will have plenty and will have no need for an additional 100 oz.

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No, I don't take offense at all. It's a perfectly valid concern. Again, assume that I have 100 ounces of gold stored in escrow, and that if I don't hold up my end of the bargain, a phone call to the storage facility will release the 100 ounces of gold held in escrow to you.

OK, it's official. you are deaf. Grin

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It's true that I don't have to put up cash right now - but I would have to eventually. But if that's your major concern, assume I have the 100 ounces held under the previously described escrow arrangement.

dude, you don't get it do you? lol. I'm not into assumptions. I want no counter-party risk, that is why I acquire phyical bullion in the form of karatbarsTM

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If the numbers scare you, I have another idea. I have 2 1 oz gold canadian maple leaf coins in front of me. I am willing to allow a board member we both trust to hold onto them for 5 years. You pay me $500 by PayPal, and if at any time in the next 5 years the price of gold exceeds $5,000 / ounce, the coins are yours for the $500 you sent: effectively, you'd buy gold at $250 per ounce. If, on the other hand, gold doesn't cross the $5,000 per ounce mark in the 5 year period, I get to keep the coins and the money. How's that sound?

it sounds like tying up my money for 5 years for government issued gold that should Harper or Mulcair decide to recall, would leave me sitting with $100 of fiat paper trash. in the event there is no recall, leave me with a couple of not very flexible coins. What is it about "No GOVERNMENT ISSUED GOLD"  do you not understand?


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[Update: Hell, I'm, willing to get 2 ounces of "Karatbars" if you don't like Maples. Same deal. We can even keep them online using whatever storage gold bar - a company you trust - offers.]

Again, I understand you say you're not into speculation (although, in reality you are: whenever you buy an asset thinking it's low, you're engaging in speculative behavior). But surely there's some combination of the numbers at which you're willing to speculate. What is it?

OK, now we're getting somewhere ...except I don't want to bet with you. You are more than welcome to open up a free Karatbars account and acquire a few oz. You should commit to acquiring at least 100 grams... over time, or all at once is you want. I think you'll be very happy you did. Smiley And when gold does what I think it will do, you can thank me with a bottle of Moet Karatbars Champagne. If gold does not do what I think it will, you can liquidate your Karatbars, get your fiat paper currency back, and rub my nose in it. Deal?

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« Reply #77 on: May 02, 2012, 05:59:59 PM »

Let's be real, if you want gold or silver physical, take actual possession and get American eagles, Canadian maples, Austrian Philharmonics, south African kugarands, even Chinese pandas or Mexican liberatads. 


Forget this crazy shit about letting someone else hold it.
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« Reply #78 on: May 02, 2012, 06:15:14 PM »

Let's be real, if you want gold or silver physical, take actual possession and get American eagles, Canadian maples, Austrian Philharmonics, south African kugarands, even Chinese pandas or Mexican liberatads. 


Forget this crazy shit about letting someone else hold it.

As Mike Maloney is so fond of saying "If you don't hold it, ...you don't own it."
I agree with 33386 about taking physical possession for those who don't trust any vaulting facility to store their precious metals for them, ...but I vehemently disagree with his advice to acquire Government issued gold.

Remember, with Government issued gold, you are NOT the owner, merely the bearer, and the government can recall it's gold at any time.

I firmly beleive privately issued LBMA gold is what people should be getting, ...but to each it's own. You can be rest assured that the 1% of the 1% acquire privately issued or numismatics not subject to confiscation. 
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« Reply #79 on: May 02, 2012, 06:19:05 PM »

As Mike Maloney is so fond of saying "If you don't hold it, ...you don't own it."
I agree with 33386 about taking physical possession for those who don't trust any vaulting facility to store their precious metals for them, ...but I vehemently disagree with his advice to acquire Government issued gold.

Remember, with Government issued gold, you are NOT the owner, merely the bearer, and the government can recall it's gold at any time.

I firmly beleive privately issued LBMA gold is what people should be getting, ...but to each it's own. You can be rest assured that the 1% of the 1% acquire privately issued or numismatics not subject to confiscation. 

The thing is that American eagles, Canadian maples, SA kugarands, Austrian phils are widely accepted and recognized.   

If you have to redeem your gold or silver for. Currency or barter or other items, it's easier to unload commonly respected coins like. I listed. 
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« Reply #80 on: May 02, 2012, 07:28:44 PM »

The thing is that American eagles, Canadian maples, SA kugarands, Austrian phils are widely accepted and recognized.  

If you have to redeem your gold or silver for. Currency or barter or other items, it's easier to unload commonly respected coins like. I listed.  

That is my point exactly. There was a time when South Africa was on the list of pariah countries and one could not liquidate a Krugerrand unless they were inside South Africa, and even then it was a challenge. further more... you're talking 1 oz coins which can and have been counterfeited in the past. the burden of proof is one YOU.

Do you recall that video hugo posted a few years back, when what'shisface from NIA was trying to trade his Canadian Maple leaf for $50 and no one would take it? Of course that was out of genuine ignorance, however, if you go into any coin dealer, or any cash for gold place and attempt to sell it, they will require it be tested first, ...and heaven help you if you have a counterfeit. You're also going to lose something. Karatbars offes the guaranteed highest buyback price. in addition, if you do have to liquidate because you're in a cash crunch and need a quick $500, why should you have to liquidate the entire oz. If your oz was instead in 31 one gram units, you could liquidate the 10 units, and still retain possession of the other 21. Actually, LBMA certified gold is more widely accepted and recognizeable globally as the genuine thing., and becoming more recognizeable everyday.Karatbars is open in over 100 countries and is currently delivering to I believe 58+ at present. By the end of the year, we expect Karatbars to be in 194 countries worldwide. Remember, the Vatican could have chosen to issue a limited edition commemorative Pope John Paul II gold coin using any mint they chose. They chose KaratbarsTM. there's a reason for that.
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« Reply #81 on: May 02, 2012, 10:37:33 PM »

No I would not

I can certainly understand the "not wishing to speculate" part, although I will again point out that in buying (and recommending) gold, you're doing just that: speculating (although not necessarily with a mind towards appreciation). But I want to make sure I understand something: I'm offering to sell you the option to buy gold (even going so far as to offer it in the preferred medium of your choice) for $250 per ounce, which is approximately 15% of the current spot price and you're turning me down? You claim that gold is a great buy at $1,700 an ounce, that it has only upside and that you feel that a $20,000 per ounce it has only upside. And yet, you refuse to spend $500 to get gold that would cost you $3,400 on the open market, and which you think will eventually be worth $40,000. You know what this tells me? It tells you that you are full of shit when you say that gold is a great buy at $1,700 per ounce.


What you are proposing is a bet

Right. It's a bet that calls your repeated assertions that gold only has upside, and the statement you quoted (and tacitly approved of) that $20,000 per ounce is a conservative estimate on the value of gold.

that ties up my bad money (which at the moment is still being accepted) for 5 yrs in order to gamble on a time line of which I am not confident. I am confident about gold's movement... just not when it will occur. Tieing any amount of money up in escrow or otherwise in a medium, form, or fashion that is not highly liquidateable if need be, would be in my opinion counter to my particular strategy. It would be tantamount to parking money in a CD that I couldn't touch, all the while inflation eats away at it's value. I am confident gold will rise, over the long term, I believe GOLD has to revalue, and that true price discovery is inevitable, ...but as I said previously, when that will be, I do not know. Who is to say it will occur during the next 5 years? it could, ...but it may not. it could take 6 years. If I made such a bet with you and it took 6 years, that would certainly suck for me wouldn't it? All indicators tell me there isn't much further the FED or the ECB can go, and I know the Obama admin intends to destroy the dollar, and the BIS & the IMF are just itching to introduce their SDRs to the world, but I only do my gambling at Caesars, and only at the Black Jack table.

OK... so you don't want to tie up your money. I have another idea. How about this? I will buy 2 ounces of gold in Karatbars, which I will transfer to you immediately. You don't have to put any money down. If gold hits $3,000 per ounce in the next two years, you win and you got two ounces of gold for free. If, on the other hand, gold doesn't hit $3,000 per ounce in that timeframe, then you will return the 2 ounces of gold to me along with an additional $500 in cash.

Something tells me that you won't agree even to this proposal.


It's not backed by gold, ...it is GOLD! 999.9% pure 24kt monetary gold

First of all, it's unclear what "pure monetary gold" means. It's a nonsensical term. And second of all, I'll repeat again: 999.9%? You are claiming that a gold bar is 999.9% pure gold? How is it possible for something to be 9.9 times itself? Do you even understand how percentages work?



For all your "expertise" (and I use the term loosely) in gold you just showed how clueless you are. The 999.9 is the gold's millesimal fineness. It isn't a *PERCENTAGE*. It's a PER MILLE (‰) measurement. Literally, it means "out of thousands." It's basically saying that 999.9 out of 1000 parts gold.

But even if you didn't know any of that, it should be completely obvious even to someone who hasn't even taken mathematics but has basic life skills that it is IMPOSSIBLE for anything to be 999.9 percent pure - since percent is out of a hundred.

I feel sorry for anyone who chooses to follow your advice - you're clearly clueless and, what's worse, have no idea that you are clueless.

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« Reply #82 on: May 03, 2012, 12:12:24 AM »

I can certainly understand the "not wishing to speculate" part, although I will again point out that in buying (and recommending) gold, you're doing just that: speculating (although not necessarily with a mind towards appreciation). But I want to make sure I understand something: I'm offering to sell you the option to buy gold (even going so far as to offer it in the preferred medium of your choice) for $250 per ounce,

first you say $1600 oz, then $1500oz, then you drop it down to $10/oz, then bring it up to $100/oz, then you go to $250/oz in government issued gold no less, and expect me to find each escalation in price more enticing? WTF? I don't think you have this negotiating thing down.


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[...] which is approximately 15% of the current spot price and you're turning me down? You claim that gold is a great buy at $1,700 an ounce, that it has only upside and that you feel that a $20,000 per ounce it has only upside. And yet, you refuse to spend $500 to get gold that would cost you $3,400 on the open market, and which you think will eventually be worth $40,000.

You keep forgetting all my other stated reasons... the demand for flexibility, and liquidateability, the desire to remove counter-party risk, my requirement for ecologically friendly green gold. My aversion to government issued gold, my ability to get FREE gold added to my karatbars accounts without having to go to the open markets. and my lack of confidence in any particular timeline etc., etc.,

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You know what this tells me? It tells you that you are full of shit when you say that gold is a great buy at $1,700 per ounce.

Well if that's what it tells you, ...that's what it tells you. It doesn't make you right, it just means you don't understand me. That's ok. Not very many people do. And just because I think gold may be a great buy at $1700 oz, doesn't mean I'm going to buy it at $1700, ...especially when I can acquire at an even better price. to me, FREE is better than $1700. $1700 is a great price for those who have no other choice but to go to the open market. People like me who have karatbars accounts however, can get theirs free through a variety of mechanisms currently in place, with more soon to be in place.

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Right. It's a bet that calls your repeated assertions that gold only has upside, and the statement you quoted (and tacitly approved of) that $20,000 per ounce is a conservative estimate on the value of gold.

I never said Gold only has an upside. I know it can come down. I've seen it fall from $1920/oz last September. Scroll back through this thread and re-read the conversation Jeff had with his friend's son back in 2006. Re-read what I've said about central banks working to surpress the price. I believe in the long haul it will go up, but as to when I don't know, ...and I'm not about to make some stupid bet with you wherein one of us stands to come out on the short end, simply to prove I'm right. only a vain egotistical grandstander does that, ...and I'm not that vain or egotistical (at least I'd like to think I'm not) I told you the bet I was willing to make. One wherein neither of us loses anything. if I'm right, you end up a winner, and can buy me a bottle of Karatbars champagne to show your appreciation. If I'm wrong, you can liquidate your buillion, and get your cash back, and rub my nose in it. Nobody loses. I'm not about to take your money simply because you didn't believe what I believed at the time I believed it. And I sure as heck am not about to gamble mine on a timeline I have no confidence in. That would be just plain stupid.

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OK... so you don't want to tie up your money. I have another idea.

Oh brother, ...not another idea!?! Roll Eyes  lol.

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How about this? I will buy 2 ounces of gold in Karatbars, which I will transfer to you immediately. You don't have to put any money down. If gold hits $3,000 per ounce in the next two years, you win and you got two ounces of gold for free. If, on the other hand, gold doesn't hit $3,000 per ounce in that timeframe, then you will return the 2 ounces of gold to me along with an additional $500 in cash.

Something tells me that you won't agree even to this proposal.

For once your instincts are correct. Cheesy

Tell you what... how about this... You exchange fiat paper currency for 3 ounces of Karatbars through our purchase plan. You keep the karatbars ...either in your Karatbars account, or take delivery (your choice), and if gold hits $3,000 per ounce in the next 3 years, you smile, thank me, say "Well look at that!", I'll let you decide at that time whether you want to send me a bottle of Karatbars champagne or not. and if it doesn't hit $3,000 within that timeframe, you're free to liquidate your karatbars by exchanging them back to cash. 

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First of all, it's unclear what "pure monetary gold" means. It's a nonsensical term. And second of all, I'll repeat again: 999.9%? You are claiming that a gold bar is 999.9% pure gold? How is it possible for something to be 9.9 times itself? Do you even understand how percentages work?

For all your "expertise" (and I use the term loosely) in gold you just showed how clueless you are. The 999.9 is the gold's millesimal fineness. It isn't a *PERCENTAGE*. It's a PER MILLE (‰) measurement. Literally, it means "out of thousands." It's basically saying that 999.9 out of 1000 parts gold.

But even if you didn't know any of that, it should be completely obvious even to someone who hasn't even taken mathematics but has basic life skills that it is IMPOSSIBLE for anything to be 999.9 percent pure - since percent is out of a hundred.

I feel sorry for anyone who chooses to follow your advice - you're clearly clueless and, what's worse, have no idea that you are clueless.



Now you're just trying to be nasty. I know how math works. We're talking about gold. 4 nines is the standard 999.9   Sheesh, you remind me of the guy the other day who kept insisting rather adamantly that there were only 28 grams to an ounce. Finally I looked at him and said "Maybe if you're talking drug weights, but we're talking gold, and gold is measured in troy ounces and there are 31.1 grams to a troy ounce. Good grief!!! Tell me Avxo, Are you always such a drama Queen! Did you go through all this drama to open up your savings account at Bank of America, or wherever you do your banking? Did you negotiate with the teller, offer her a bet? I can just see it now. "You give me $5000 today, and if this bank doesn't get robbed in the next 10 years, I'll come back and deposit $20,000 into a savings account,  Roll Eyes Is that how it went?
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« Reply #83 on: May 03, 2012, 01:05:02 AM »

first you say $1600 oz, then $1500oz, then you drop it down to $10/oz, then bring it up to $100/oz, then you go to $250/oz in government issued gold no less, and expect me to find each escalation in price more enticing? WTF? I don't think you have this negotiating thing down.

Well, I kept taking the price per ounce down, to see if you'd bite - surely there must be a price at which you find gold to be an attractive investment. But so far, it doesn't look like you're interested.And yes, I am adjusting the price depending on the timeframe of the bet and my estimate of the risk I'm taking in offering this bet to you. It's fairly standard practice in the financial world - adjusting numbers to make risk pallatable. But you wouldn't know anything about that, would you?

And as for government-issued gold, you're blatantly lying and being dishonest. I offered to do this using Karatbars, which I would transfer to you.

You keep forgetting all my other stated reasons... the demand for flexibility, and liquidateability, the desire to remove counter-party risk, my requirement for ecologically friendly green gold. My aversion to government issued gold, my ability to get FREE gold added to my karatbars accounts without having to go to the open markets. and my lack of confidence in any particular timeline etc., etc.,

No, I'm not forgetting; I merely want to see what the contours of your confidence in gold and its price on the open market are. You see, you make grandiose statements about gold; you say you're buying heavily at these record high prices and that you consider it a great value. You endorse statements that conservatively estimate gold at $20,000 per ounce. But when someone challenges you, you back off, and say you lack confidence in a particular timeline.
 

Well if that's what it tells you, ...that's what it tells you. It doesn't make you right, it just means you don't understand me.

You're right. I have problems understanding irrational actions...


That's ok. Not very many people do.

I'll bet.


to me, FREE is better than $1700.

You can't acquire gold for free. But if you could, then that would be even worse for your case. Because it would mean that gold is worthless. You see, nobody gives anything of value away for free. If you're getting gold for free, it means the gold doesn't have value. And you're basing this whole "scheme" on the fact that gold has some intrinsic value.


People like me who have karatbars accounts however, can get theirs free through a variety of mechanisms currently in place, with more soon to be in place.

See above.

Tell you what... how about this... You exchange fiat paper currency for 3 ounces of Karatbars through our purchase plan. You keep the karatbars ...either in your Karatbars account, or take delivery (your choice), and if gold hits $3,000 per ounce in the next 3 years, you smile, thank me, say "Well look at that!", I'll let you decide at that time whether you want to send me a bottle of Karatbars champagne or not. and if it doesn't hit $3,000 within that timeframe, you're free to liquidate your karatbars by exchanging them back to cash.

No thanks - I don't consider gold a good investment at the current prices, either as a counter against inflation or as a vehicle for growth. I'll stick to the nice returns I'm netting from the stock market.


Now you're just trying to be nasty. I know how math works.

Apparently not - since you claim that Karatbars are 999.9% pure gold. A physical impossibility.


We're talking about gold. 4 nines is the standard 999.9

Right. And they represent millesimal fineness. Not "999.9% percent purity." You pass yourself off as an expert, but you don't know the basics!


Did you negotiate with the teller, offer her a bet?

I negotiated, yes. As a result, I ended up getting a package reserved for people who maintain much larger balances than I do; and I got all the fees waived. But I didn't offer a bet.


I can just see it now. "You give me $5000 today, and if this bank doesn't get robbed in the next 10 years, I'll come back and deposit $20,000 into a savings account,  Roll Eyes Is that how it went?

Unlike you, my bank didn't try to convince me that buying gold at what are close to record-high prices was a smart investment; indeed, the investments they did offer to sell me were investments that they themselves were willing to take a risk on - including a CDS based fund. Luckily for me, I didn't dive in that bottomless pit.

And I'd point out that my last offer was quite different - you'd get gold right away (in your preferred format) for free. And if gold went to to $3,000 per ounce within the timeframe, you'd get to keep it. If it didn't, you'd lose $500. But you aren't confident enough in the price breaching $3,000 to risk $500... that tells us all exactly how much faith you put in gold.
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« Reply #84 on: May 07, 2012, 05:25:12 PM »

Roll Eyes  {sigh} I am soooo reminded of that classic line:

"What we have here, is a failure to communicate!"  Cheesy


Well, I kept taking the price per ounce down, to see if you'd bite - surely there must be a price at which you find gold to be an attractive investment. But so far, it doesn't look like you're interested.And yes, I am adjusting the price depending on the timeframe of the bet and my estimate of the risk I'm taking in offering this bet to you. It's fairly standard practice in the financial world - adjusting numbers to make risk pallatable. But you wouldn't know anything about that, would you?

I'm not "investing" in gold. I'm acquiring it. I'm exchanging one form of currency for another. I know plenty about negotiating. I used to own an agency that represented actors, models, and various other performers. I've negotiated many a contract in my day. And your taking $10,000 from someone, while entering into a legally binding contract to deliver 1000 ounces of physical gold to them at $10/oz is a risk you certainly cannot afford to take. For one, it would be fraudulent right from the start, since you know you cannot and will not ever be able to fulfill such an agreement were gold to go upwards of $10K per oz. Pallatable? What you were proposing was biting off far more than you'd ever be able to chew. Infact, you'd choke on it! I don't enter into financial transactions providing quick cash to those who cannot, and do not possibly have a snowball's chance in hell to live up to their obligations. What do I look like to you... The FED, the IMF, or the ECB?  Grin


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And as for government-issued gold, you're blatantly lying and being dishonest. I offered to do this using Karatbars, which I would transfer to you.

You need to scroll back a bit, There were no lies involved, at least not on my end. I have no interest in Government issued gold. if i did, I would have offered to simply purchase the 2 Maple Leafs you claimed you had in hand, for $500. I'm not interested in Government issued 1 oz gold coins, and as I've stated many times, I'm not interested in being the custodian of someone else's gold, or holding gold in escrow, until clear ownership can be established. You deal with storing it securely and insuring it adequately. I'm not a bank, financial institution, or vault storage facility, ...and have no interest in becoming one. I also have no interest in running around trying to sell coins to see who will give me the highest price on them, so I can exchange that cash for karatbars, which is what I would do with Maple Leafs. I'm just a girl with a Karatbars account.

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No, I'm not forgetting; I merely want to see what the contours of your confidence in gold and its price on the open market are. You see, you make grandiose statements about gold; you say you're buying heavily at these record high prices and that you consider it a great value. You endorse statements that conservatively estimate gold at $20,000 per ounce. But when someone challenges you, you back off, and say you lack confidence in a particular timeline.

First of all, I never said I was buying heavily. I said I was acquiring gold using a dollar cost averaging approach. That's the advise Marc Faber dispenses, and I happen to believe there is merit, wisdom, & prudence in it. I'm an individual who prefers to acquire on the dips, and as I see the spot price drop from day to day, I am able to postpone acquisitions because the pricing structure of my supplier (Karatbars International) lags the market by 24 hours. If I see the spot price shoot up on Wednesday, I'm going to want to make my exchange immediately that day, because my supplier will still be quoting Tuesday's rates, and if I wait to make my acquisition on Thursday, my supplier's rates will have changed to reflect the increase that occurred on Wednesday. Hindsight is always 20/20 and I prefer an acquisition strategy that affords me such clarity of vision.

I do not "endorse" Mike Maloney's statement, however, I do not view HIS prediction as an unreasonable one. Infact, if one were to do some homework on the subject via credible sources (not loud mouth apocalyptic gun freaks who when push comes to shove can only whip out a notepad and jot down a license plate faster than a speeding bullet) with all factors taken into account, Mike's prediction can quite reasonably be considered conservative IMO.

Furthermore, you are offering me a bet, my acceptance of which you claim to be verification of my confidence in the intrinsic value of gold. "Putting my money where my noisehole is" as you so eloquently put it, but in actuality, what you are offering is a bet upon something I've clearly stated I have no confidence in at all... that being the timeline.

Good grief!!! You're like the Getbig resident 3 card monte dealer. Angry

Did you actually think I was foolish enough to NOT spot that sleight of hand?
Or was it that you believed the readers here were foolish enough not to spot it?

 
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You're right. I have problems understanding irrational actions...

There's nothing irrational about it. Not all gold is equal in my opinion. Just as not all cars are equal. eg. A Mercedes Benz and a Ford Pinto. There are added benefits that come with a mercedes that you will not find in a pinto. A Pinto has certain risks and liabilities that you will not find in a mercedes. The engineering of the mercedes is clearly far superior to that of the pinto, and as such the mercedes not only holds the road better, but also holds its value far better than a pinto. Yes, a pinto and a mercedes are both combustion automobiles, both have engines, a fuel tank, 4 tires etc., etc., but when it comes right down to it, ...what do they really have in common?

For me, not just any old gold will do. For me, the quality & purity of the gold matters ALOT. Only gold that has been refined down to a purity of 999.9 is considered currency. I don't personally own a refinery, and therefore do not have the ability to refine gold of lesser purity down to 999.9. Therefore I acquire only gold that has already been refined down to that level of purity, the only level of purity that is considered currency gold WORLDWIDE. It is quite simply, me exchanging one form of currency for another. there are too many goverment issued coins that have started rusting after a few years. And a while back, the Chinese took delivery on a shipment of gold that they drilled into. Turns out it was simply gold plated tungsten. When traced back via the serial numbers, turns out it came from the US MINT I believe, during the years when Summers was the Treasury Security under Clinton. It was quite a curious thing because .. afterall, we know that neither the US gov nor it's financiers would ever lie to or defraud anyone right? Roll Eyes



In addition, my acquisition of Karatbars gold, does not contribute to the poisoning of the environment with toxic chemicals like mercury & cyanide into a water table that produces the food that others have to eat. The very same food that I may myself one day be eating. Take a look at the drought levels in California. They're not producing as much food as they once did. The BP Gulf of Mexico disaster, and the prolific use of Corexit as a dispersant, has done a number on the midwest farm belt. it is called conscious consumerism. I hope that clarifies.


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You can't acquire gold for free.

That is a false assumption based IMO on your lack of investigation, and your own assumptions, due to your very limited paradigmn.

Many of us with Karatbars accounts are doing just that.

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But if you could, then that would be even worse for your case. Because it would mean that gold is worthless. You see, nobody gives anything of value away for free. If you're getting gold for free, it means the gold doesn't have value. And you're basing this whole "scheme" on the fact that gold has some intrinsic value.

Au contraire. That would be the case, ONLY by your limited understanding. Because of their understanding of the deep intrinsic value of gold, Karatbars has indeed developed ingenious ways of providing account holders with this very valueable resource for FREE.

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No thanks - I don't consider gold a good investment at the current prices, either as a counter against inflation or as a vehicle for growth. I'll stick to the nice returns I'm netting from the stock market.

To each his own. I would say ...it's a free country, ...but I just remembered you live in the USA! Grin

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Apparently not - since you claim that Karatbars are 999.9% pure gold. A physical impossibility.

Now you want to nit pick at semantics? lol. OK fair enough. It is a bad habit I've developed along the way. But believe it or not, most average people understand it better when I say 999.9% pure. Tell you what... I'll make a concerted effort in the future not to do it... just for you. Kiss

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Right. And they represent millesimal fineness. Not "999.9% percent purity." You pass yourself off as an expert, but you don't know the basics!

I don't pass myself off as an expert at all. I'm just a gal who owns a Karatbars account that empowers me to exchange increasingly worth-less paper currency for un-counterfeitable 24kt gold refined to a purity of 999.9. I have access to the highest quality & purity of gold available,(the only purity of gold that is considered gold currency WORLDWIDE), and is easily recognizable as such due to it's attached LMBA GDL certification. and I'm able to acquire it at the best possible price, ...some of which is FREE, and I'm able to acquire it in smaller, more affordable, transaction friendly weights allowing me maximum flexibility, now and in the future. Soon, I'll even be able to acquire even more of it simply by going about my everyday business when I shop online. The idea of getting free gold deposited into my account, just from spending cash on a sweater, a pair of shoes, a new computer, ...or even if I buy a toy for my soon to be born grandchild appeals to me. I can even avail myself of FREE storage of my gold in a non-seizure country, and/or take immediate delivery if I choose.

Infact, I just got delivery of my limited edition numerically sequenced Pope John Paul II Karatbars this morning... and they're gorgeous!

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7m4dBRmQdsE" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7m4dBRmQdsE</a>

They took me by surprise because I missed the email informing me they were on their way. They shipped them out on Thursday from Germany, ...and they arrived first thing Monday. One of my colleagues in Colorado had his shipped out on Friday, and got his today as well. That's pretty quick service. I don't know very many suppliers that can deliver gold from halfway around the world in 3 or 4 days to 58+ countries around the world. I don't even know of any suppliers in the USA who can deliver that quickly... even within the USA. lol. Evidently my supplier is legitimate enough that The vatican (a MAJOR financial world power) has chosen to do business with them commissioning 100,000 limited edition Karatbars, which under international law are non confiscatable, and sure to rise in value over and above the very gold content of the pieces themselves.

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I negotiated, yes. As a result, I ended up getting a package reserved for people who maintain much larger balances than I do; and I got all the fees waived. But I didn't offer a bet.

So why were you offering me a bet, ...and a sucker's bet at that?

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Unlike you, my bank didn't try to convince me that buying gold at what are close to record-high prices was a smart investment; indeed, the investments they did offer to sell me were investments that they themselves were willing to take a risk on - including a CDS based fund. Luckily for me, I didn't dive in that bottomless pit.

I'm not looking to convince you or anyone else of anything. I'm sharing information about what I'm doing, and inviting those who may want to know more to get the facts for themselves and make up their own minds,

Of course your bank wouldn't offer to sell you gold. Bankers hate gold. To a banker, gold is the enemy. they can't produce it out of thin air, and charge interest for it. Infact, back in the fall I believe, we saw editorials in both the New York Times and the Wall Street Journals, both of which were calling for a co-ordinated effort by bankers to kill gold. Haven't you figured it out by now? The bankers are a bunch of crooks.

How to Be a Crook (aka What bankers do best)

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oHbwdNcHbc" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oHbwdNcHbc</a>


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And I'd point out that my last offer was quite different - you'd get gold right away (in your preferred format) for free. And if gold went to to $3,000 per ounce within the timeframe, you'd get to keep it. If it didn't, you'd lose $500. But you aren't confident enough in the price breaching $3,000 to risk $500... that tells us all exactly how much faith you put in gold.


There you go again with the 3 card monty trick. You've switched a frequently voiced lack of confidence in a given TIMELINE, for a lack of confidence in GOLD. Stop it. Angry
 
As I've stated before, where I lack the confidence is not in gold's ability to breach $3000, but in any particular timeline for it to do so. Sheesh, what is so difficult about that for you to comprehend? I will let others try to forecast timelines. I won't go there.

A GOLD BUYER SPEAKS

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQqxTdo__V0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQqxTdo__V0</a>


I AM GOLD

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQ9-6UiI9pI" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQ9-6UiI9pI</a>

Hope That Clarifies,

"The wealthy buy gold as a reservoir of eternal wealth, not as a profit-making vehicle. Gold is where the wealthy keep a portion of their assets.  They know gold will still be considered wealth when their great grand-kids inherit it." - Richard Russell, -  Editor of The Dow Theory Letters.
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« Reply #85 on: May 08, 2012, 09:12:59 AM »

Let's see what my friend, and unfortunately my competitor has to say by way of predictions.


James Turk gives his timeline on the Dollar's Collapse and Gold's role as the messenger!

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0Gag8rvYF8" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0Gag8rvYF8</a>
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« Reply #86 on: May 14, 2012, 09:30:38 PM »

IMF to buy Gold worth $2.3 billion as credit risk increases

Last Updated : 14 May 2012 at 08:05 EDT

NEW YORK (Commodity Online): The International Monetary Fund (IMF) is planning to purchase more than $2 billion worth of gold on account of rising global risks. The IMF currently holds around 2800 tonnes of gold at various depositories

“The Fund is facing increased credit risk in light of a surge in program lending in the context of the global crisis. While the Fund has a multi-layered framework for managing credit risks, including the strength of its lending policies and its preferred creditor status, there is a need to increase the Fund’s reserves in order to help mitigate the elevated credit risks”, Bloomberg quotes a report by an IMF staff while also adding that a $2.3 billion gold purchase is in the planning.

IMF's borrowers include Eurozone countries like Greece and Portugal. Greece is IMF's biggest borrower and the nation is currently caught in a political deadlock that seems bent on denying itself the much needed bailout fund.

Countries like Spain is also officially in recession after its first quarter GDP contracted. Other nations in the Eurozone region is also showing increased signs of slow manufacturing activity and economic growth.



LOL, So despite having preferred creditor status, ...even the IMF feels the need to stock up on a little gold.

Hmmm... you don't suppose the fact that the IMF is looking to acquire over $2.3 billion, and if the dollar was slightly higher and gold priced slightly lower, that the price was manipulated slightly to allow the IMF to get $2.3 Billion worth of gold without triggering too big an upswing in gold, or the inevitable run on the dollar?. I mean, this way, their $2.3 Billion in paper gets them a whole lot more gold than they would have gotten. Nah, that would be a crazy conspiracy Roll Eyes



UPDATE:

IMF stresses need to increase reserves due to rising credit risk

*** This is an updated version. The IMF has NOT stated that it plans to buy $2.3 billion of gold as reserves. INSTEAD, the IMF has only stated that it plans to increase its reserves

NEW YORK (Commodity Online): The International Monetary Fund (IMF) is planning to increase its precautionary reserves on account of rising global risks, the organization's latest report says.

“The Fund is facing increased credit risk in light of a surge in program lending in the context of the global crisis. While the Fund has a multi-layered framework for managing credit risks, including the strength of its lending policies and its preferred creditor status, there is a need to increase the Fund’s reserves in order to help mitigate the elevated credit risks”, the IMF report states

“Directors supported an increase in the medium-term indicative target for precautionary balances to SDR 20 billion in light of the increase in total Fund credit and commitments since the last review in 2010”, the report adds

IMF's borrowers include Eurozone countries like Greece and Portugal. Greece is IMF's biggest borrower and the nation is currently caught in a political deadlock that seems bent on denying itself the much needed bailout fund.

Countries like Spain is also officially in recession after its first quarter GDP contracted. Other nations in the Eurozone region is also showing increased signs of slow manufacturing activity and economic growth.



{hee hee} From where I'm sitting, it looks like someone got their knuckles wrapped for spilling the beans, and were asked to make a hasty retraction. But that's just my opinion.
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« Reply #87 on: May 15, 2012, 12:49:52 AM »

You also have to remember, in a poop hits the fan scenario, karatbars account holders will still be able to conduct business, and carry on trade and commerce.

Objection. Assumes facts not in evidence.

How will they be able to do all these things?


You see, unlike other storage facilities, Karatbars account holders are fully insured in the event of a robbery. With every other vaulting facility I have researched, ...when you go through the fine print, you will discover they are not liable. Iin the event of a theft, ...YOU are SOL. Karatbars account holders however are fully covered, and will also retain the ability to conduct commerce, by trading fractions of a gram for goods & services with merchants all over the world.

Karatbars doesn't protect you from government agents going in, raiding the vault and confiscating your gold and their insurance won't either. But I guess your main concern now isn't the government; it's the Beagle Boys breaking in the vault... Good news, it might surpise you to know that your homeowner's insurance (especially with a rider added) could offer you protection from the theft of your gold from any vaulting facility.

And what merchants are you referring to that are accepting Karatbars? Name 10, and let's see what services your gold will buy.


Understand as well, when you buy gold coins from a dealer, those purchases are registered and documented. The US Gov knows who has them, as well as how much you bought.

Please provide a reference to support this assertion. Businesses might hold records, made in the course of their regular operations, but not specifically for gold purchases and certainly not at the behest of the U.S. Government. Such records wouldn't be available to it without a warrant anyways. Karatbars, I'm sure, maintains such records during their regular course of business as well.


If they ever decide to come and take them, ...they know exactly where to go.

And they don't know where to go with Karatbars, or any other vaulting provider? To continue my thought above, every legitimate company, regardless of where they operate from, maintains records, and those records can be subpoenaed. So, unless you're asserting that Karatbars doesn't maintain records like a legitimate company, I don't see how the authorities couldn't figure out exactly where to go.


Some may find themselves in the undesireable position of having to get rid of a bunch of lead, in order to hang into their gold and/or silver.

Authorities the world over don't take too kindly to threats like the above, even when they are speculative, nebulous and veiled.



Whereas with a Karatbars account, purchases under a certain amount, do not need to be registered, and no one is going to know you have them, ...unless you tell someone.

Noone except Karatbars (see above) and, of course, your bank, which was the medium through which funds were transfered to Karatbars to begin with.
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« Reply #88 on: May 15, 2012, 11:23:46 AM »

Objection. Assumes facts not in evidence.

You speak as if Karatbars is on trial, and you're the prosecutor.
Karatbars is not on trial. They've been conducting business for many years, are well established and trusted. Karatbars are even recommended by Bund Der Sparer a HUGE independent 3rd party European consumer Watchdog organization. The only one making assumptions is YOU.

If however Karatbars were on trial, I would think the prudent thing for any jury to do, would be to get the information for themselves. They can do that by visiting the website in my sig line, and attending one of our information webinars, ...and making up their own minds, rather than relying on someone like you who disparaged and criticized Karatbars without even knowing what they were in the first place.


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How will they be able to do all these things?

If you have questions, maybe you should attend one of our webinars to get your answers?
We have a LIVE interactive webinar taking place (in english) this afternoon at 12 noon PDT / 3PM EDT / 9 pm CET


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Karatbars doesn't protect you from government agents going in, raiding the vault and confiscating your gold and their insurance won't either. But I guess your main concern now isn't the government; it's the Beagle Boys breaking in the vault... Good news, it might surpise you to know that your homeowner's insurance (especially with a rider added) could offer you protection from the theft of your gold from any vaulting facility.

And what merchants are you referring to that are accepting Karatbars? Name 10, and let's see what services your gold will buy.

Are you suuuuuure about this?  There are distinct advantages to vertical integration (ie: owning mines, owning a refinery, and having the distribution). Perhaps you should stop guessing, and get the facts. You might be very surprised. I hear about new businesses coming on board from time to time as many of my colleagues ink these deals. I've even seen some of the contracts. If you want to call Germany and acquire a list of acceptance points, you're more than welcome to do so. I prefer to wait until ALL acceptance points are compiled, uploaded, and revealed by the company.

I do know a guy in my local area who actually used his karatbars to settle his bar tab the other night. He offered cash or karatbars. They jumped at the karatbars. hee hee

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Please provide a reference to support this assertion. Businesses might hold records, made in the course of their regular operations, but not specifically for gold purchases and certainly not at the behest of the U.S. Government.


Please stop. I'm laughing so hard my sides are aching and I'm about to pee.

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Such records wouldn't be available to it without a warrant anyways.Karatbars, I'm sure, maintains such records during their regular course of business as well.

Warrant? in the USA? Oh puleaze! Since when do LEO need warrants in the USA these days, ...they just make requests.


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And they don't know where to go with Karatbars, or any other vaulting provider? To continue my thought above, every legitimate company, regardless of where they operate from, maintains records, and those records can be subpoenaed. So, unless you're asserting that Karatbars doesn't maintain records like a legitimate company, I don't see how the authorities couldn't figure out exactly where to go.

There is a big difference between American law, and German law. There is a reason Germans are known for precision and for being regimented and doing things strictly 'by the book'. Yes Karatbars keep records, however, strict customer privacy and confidentiality are maintained. A "request" by LEO for information on customers is not enough. Neither is "suspicion of wrongdoing" sufficient. One has to have been tried AND convicted of drug trafficking or money laundering in order for your customer records to be revealed.

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Authorities the world over don't take too kindly to threats like the above, even when they are speculative, nebulous and veiled.

What threats are you refering to? Who is making a threat? Certainly not I. I'm simply stating the facts. If someone comes to your door to illegally seize STEAL your stuff, are you simply going to roll over, or are you going to stand your ground and defend yourself? Do you have a problem with the 2nd Amendment? And which authorities were you refering to? The state officials who recently passed a law saying a homeowner had the right to use deadly force against any LEO attempting an illegal entry into their homes? Are those the authorities you were referring to? Or was the prospect of LEO breaking into your home to steal your stuff the threat you were referring to?

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Noone except Karatbars (see above) and, of course, your bank, which was the medium through which funds were transfered to Karatbars to begin with.


Are you suuuuuuure about that? Many jewellers, gold dealers, and merchants are acquiring many of our limited edition collector cards, and gift cards, at spot, marking them up and offering them for sale in their businesses. What a lovely gift to give expecting parents for their soon to arrive bundle of joy! I know my soon-to-be-born grandchild already has a few karatbars.

Did you know that parents can purchase a gold bar every month for their child's future, ...and by the time that child reaches college age, they could potentially have a nice fat golden piggy bank with which to afford a Harvard education if they wanted without any back breaking student loans?


The possibilities are endless....


There are forces that are bigger than us. Forces that will impact our lives whether we want them to or not. When they do impact, they will either crush us, ...or push us into success. Rather than scream about the upcoming storm, it is far better to learn how to dance in the rain! It's all just part of these growing "global currency trends" [dot] com that we see taking place around us everyday.

Those who want more information or more specifically accurate information are welcome to view the info for themselves, and make up their own minds. Like I said, we have an upcoming LIVE webinar this afternoon that you are welcome to attend as my guests

Hope That Helps,

ps: Just to clarify, while I was away from this forum the past year, I got a visit from the stork. I had daughter, an adopted one. Actually, I didn't adopt her, ...she adopted me. lol. A few weeks ago, they shocked me by announcing they were preggers!!!
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« Reply #89 on: May 15, 2012, 01:32:19 PM »

You are clearly way too taken in by these "Karatbars" to actually debate the subject rationally. You just spit out marketing propaganda and make vague statements which you take back and then subtly twist when challenged to avoid the appearance of being pinned down. Alas, your posts in this thread alone speak volumes about how full of shit you are.

Good luck with your "investment" strategy. I hope that you don't swindle too many people into buying your "999%" pure gold embedded in a plastic card.
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« Reply #90 on: May 15, 2012, 01:34:49 PM »

 Cheesy
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« Reply #91 on: May 15, 2012, 02:39:18 PM »

Dear 24KT,

You take the tone of an expert on economics, finance, investment matters relating to gold, and seem privy to top-secret knowledge indicating the future status of the global economy.

Can you tell me about your credentials (primarily education, but experience as well if you'd like) for discussing these matters with such certainty?



Like I've stated many times in this thread... I'm just a girl with a Karatbars account.

Fortunately for me, I do have access to some of the best financial advisors, and experts in the above mentioned fields.

I have a Ph.D. from the School of Hard Knocks, ...and my eyes wide open. I don't live in the USA remember.

Anyway, ...it's been a slice. Those who want more info are free to visit my website(s) or PM me. Don't mean to cut the conversation short, but I have to get myself ready for the Las Vegas Money Show starting tomorrow. I gotta fly.... cya
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« Reply #92 on: May 15, 2012, 02:40:59 PM »

If you are buying gold now... You're 3 years too late.

Gold has peaked and it's just going down.
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« Reply #93 on: May 15, 2012, 02:48:51 PM »

If you are buying gold now... You're 3 years too late.

Gold has peaked and it's just going down.

I think I agree with this.
Buy low, sell high.
The other way around, doesnt work so well. JMHO.
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« Reply #94 on: May 15, 2012, 03:14:38 PM »

If you are buying gold now... You're 3 years too late.

Gold has peaked and it's just going down.


Do you know how many times I've heard that? I've been hearing gold was at it's peak since it was $800/oz

It's only going down, ...until it goes back up again. Besides, what girl can't resist a good sale?


I think I agree with this.
Buy low, sell high.
The other way around, doesnt work so well. JMHO.


Who is planning on selling it?  Most Karatbars account holders I know are accumulating them using Marc Faber's advise.


Tu & Shockwave, please see my earlier post to give you more insight into my perspective.

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=421212.msg6095781#msg6095781

Now I really have to run
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« Reply #95 on: May 15, 2012, 03:16:14 PM »

Like I've stated many times in this thread... I'm just a girl with a Karatbars account.

Yeah, just a girl. Just a girl who spams marketing material from a company hocking gold on a forum about bodybuilding, dispenses financial advice under the guise of regular conversations, while playing the expert and then falling back to "I'm just a girl" when challenged. While you may be a female, I don't think that girl is the word I'd associate with your behavior...


Fortunately for me, I do have access to some of the best financial advisors, and experts in the above mentioned fields.

For some definition of "best" at any rate... At least that's what an expert in the field of answering that I have to have access to told me to type.


I have a Ph.D. from the School of Hard Knocks, ...and my eyes wide open.

Aha! I knew there was a reason why the school wasn't accredited, and now I see why!


Anyway, ...it's been a slice. Those who want more info are free to visit my website(s) or PM me. Don't mean to cut the conversation short, but I have to get myself ready for the Las Vegas Money Show starting tomorrow. I gotta fly.... cya

Thanks for patronizing my city! Do let me know if you find any businesses here that accept Karatbars as payment in exchange for goods and/or services. I just can't wait to buy a $0.49 piece of gum with 1 gram of gold in a plastic card that's worth (let me check... the damn price fluctuates, so I can never know how many cards I need to carry with me)... Ah, yes, $49.66 as of right now. And, just so I know, what will I be getting my change, which works out to $49.17, in? Could I get it in pork bellies in a plastic card?
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« Reply #96 on: May 15, 2012, 04:02:34 PM »

This lady is a quack.

Visit www.Imaskeevyfuckthatwan tsallyourmoneybecauseyou reagulliblepieceofshit.c om for legitimate advise, run by me, a guy with an optionsxpress account. Look forward to having your business.

I'll have 500 ounces of whatever you're selling sir!
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« Reply #97 on: May 15, 2012, 09:25:02 PM »

Um, well, it's only 735% pure, if that's ok!

Well.. that's not as good as this other thing.. but i guess I shouldn't complain. I'll still be getting 7.35 options for every option I purchase.
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« Reply #98 on: May 16, 2012, 10:29:27 AM »

Do you know how many times I've heard that? I've been hearing gold was at it's peak since it was $800/oz

It's only going down, ...until it goes back up again. Besides, what girl can't resist a good sale?



Who is planning on selling it?  Most Karatbars account holders I know are accumulating them using Marc Faber's advise.


Tu & Shockwave, please see my earlier post to give you more insight into my perspective.

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=421212.msg6095781#msg6095781

Now I really have to run

You may have heard it before, but this is the real.

I have friends who have made MILLIONS buying and selling and dealing in THIS gold market... MILLIONS. I can send you to them if you really feel like you want an education.

They got in at the bottom and rode it to the top.

They are going back into retail gold sales because the price of gold is continuously dropping.

Look at the trends... It's DOWN... it's going DOWN... The Gold bubble has burst... if you didn't already buy and sell, you might as well not bother.

Gold is down over 200 dollars in the past 6 months.

The US dollar is gaining strength and that's just the facts... Dollar up... Gold down... Gold will continue to drop as the economy makes a push to the positive, which it is.
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« Reply #99 on: May 16, 2012, 10:58:55 AM »

One thing is for sure:

This 24KT/JaguarScams/Samson123 does bring people together, against her.  Republicans and Democrats, conservatives and liberals, KKK and Black Panthers, Jews and Palestinians, all come together against this woman's bs and scams.      Grin
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