Author Topic: Actual Known Facts in Trayvon Martin case  (Read 13748 times)

Skip8282

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Actual Known Facts in Trayvon Martin case
« on: April 01, 2012, 01:42:02 PM »
Fellow Citizens: 



There has been a lot of media attention to the recent incident where George
Zimmerman shot and killed Trayvon Martin. This is indeed a tragic situation and has
caused a flood of questions and strong emotions from within our community, the region
and nation. On behalf of the employees of the City of Sanford, Our deepest sympathy
and prayers go out to the family and friends of Trayvon Martin. As a father, I can only
image the pain Trayvon’s family must be  going through.  The City of Sanford is
committed to insuring that justice is served and, therefore, the City of Sanford has
contacted the United States Attorney General’s Office for assistance in this matter. 
In an effort to continue to be as responsive as possible to the public seeking information on
the incident, I have asked Chief Lee to provide answers to some of the most frequently
asked questions regarding this matter. Below are his responses. Please understand that
since this is still an ongoing investigation, the Police Department is limited in what
information it can publicly release. 


The men and women of the Sanford Police Department extend our heartfelt
sympathies to the Martin family. This is indeed a tragic situation. The death of
anyone due to violence, especially a 17 year old young man, is morally appalling. As
this incident has generated a lot of media attention, we wanted to provide answers to
some of the most frequently asked questions. 


Why was George Zimmerman not arrested the night of the shooting?
 
When the Sanford Police Department arrived at the scene of the incident, Mr.
Zimmerman provided a statement claiming he acted in self defense which at the time
was supported by physical evidence and testimony. By Florida Statute, law
enforcement was PROHIBITED from making an arrest based on the facts and
circumstances they had at the time. Additionally, when any police officer makes an
arrest for any reason, the officer MUST swear and affirm that he/she is making the
arrest in good faith and with probable cause. If the arrest is done maliciously and in
bad faith, the officer and the City may be held liable. 


According to Florida Statute 776.032 : 
776.032 Immunity from criminal prosecution and civil action for justifiable use
of force.— 
(1) A person who uses force as permitted in s. 776.012, s. 776.013, or s. 776.031 is
justified in using such force and is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action
for the use of such force, unless the person against whom force was used is a law
enforcement officer, as defined in s. 943.10(14), who was acting in the performance
of his or her official duties and the officer identified himself or herself in accordance
with any applicable law or the person using force knew or reasonably should have
known that the person was a law enforcement officer. As used in this subsection, the
term “criminal prosecution” includes arresting, detaining in custody, and charging or
prosecuting the defendant. 
(2) A law enforcement agency may use standard procedures for investigating the
use of force as described in subsection (1), but the agency may not arrest the
person for using force unless it determines that there is probable cause that the
force that was used was unlawful.  Why weren’t the 911 tapes initially released?
There are exemptions to the public records laws for active criminal intelligence and
for ongoing investigations. In this instance, the 911 calls made by neighbors in the
subdivision, and the non-emergency call made by Mr. Zimmerman are all key to the
investigation by Sanford Police Department. In consultation with the Office of the
State Attorney, the Sanford police department had decided not to release the audio
recordings of the 911 calls due to the ongoing investigation. Many times, specific
information is contained in those recordings which is vital to the integrity of the
investigation. At the time, it was determined that if revealed, the information may
compromise the integrity of the investigation prior to its completion. The 911 tapes
have since been released.



Why did Mr. Zimmerman have a firearm in his possession while acting in the
role of a neighborhood watch member?

 
Mr. Zimmerman holds a concealed weapon permit issued from the State of Florida.
He is authorized to carry the weapon in a concealed manner wherever Florida
Statute dictates. Neighborhood Watch programs are designed for members of a
neighborhood to be “eyes and ears” for police and to watch out for their neighbors.
They are not members of the Police Department nor are they vigilantes. Training
provided by law enforcement agencies to Neighborhood Watch organizations
stresses non-contact surveillance of suspicious situations and notifying police of
those situations so that law enforcement can respond and take control of the
situation.


Mr. Zimmerman was not acting outside the legal boundaries of Florida Statute by
carrying his weapon when this incident occurred. He was in fact on a personal
errand in his vehicle when he observed Mr. Martin in the community and called the
Sanford Police Department.


If Zimmerman was told not to continue to follow Trayvon, can that be
considered in this investigation?

 
Yes it will; however, the telecommunications call taker asked Zimmerman “are you
following him”. Zimmerman replied, “yes”. The call taker stated “you don’t need to do
that”. The call taker’s suggestion is not a lawful order that Mr. Zimmerman would be
required to follow.
Zimmerman’s statement was that he had lost sight of Trayvon and
was returning to his truck to meet the police officer when he says he was attacked by
Trayvon.


Why was George Zimmerman labeled as “squeaky clean” when in fact he has
a prior arrest history?

 
In one of the initial meetings with the father of the victim the investigator related to
him the account that Mr. Zimmerman provided of the incident. At that time the
investigator said that Mr. Zimmerman portrayed himself to be “squeaky clean”. We
are aware of the background information regarding both individuals involved in this
event. We believe Mr. Martin may have misconstrued this information.


What about media reenactments of the shooting incident?
 
Any media reenactments of the shooting incident are purely speculation. To date the
Sanford Police Department has not released any rendition of the events of the
evening to anyone other than the Office of the State Attorney. The renditions we
have seen are not consistent with the evidence in this case.



The Sanford Police Department has conducted a complete and fair investigation of
this incident. We have provided the results of our investigation to the Office of the
State Attorney for their review and consideration for possible criminal prosecution.
Although the Police Department is the target of the troubling questions, let me
assure you we too feel the pain of this senseless tragedy that has dramatically
affected our community. Therefore, as we move forward and strive to answer the
questions that are a point of controversy in the community, we ask for your patience,
understanding and assistance in getting the correct information to the community
We trust that this information is helpful to you.


Norton N. Bonaparte, Jr., ICMA-CM 
City Manager 
March 23, 2012
http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/docs/Zimmerman_Martin_shooting.pdf

Skip8282

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Re: Actual Known Facts in Trayvon Martin case
« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2012, 01:43:48 PM »
C'mon Mal, help me out bro.

The police haven't released anything except to the DA and the media reenactments are not accurate.

Where's all this "other" evidence that Zimmerman's guilty?

Skip8282

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Re: Actual Known Facts in Trayvon Martin case
« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2012, 01:45:40 PM »
In case anybody missed this from the city manager:

"The call taker’s suggestion is not a lawful order that Mr. Zimmerman would be
required to follow."



::)

George Whorewell

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Re: Actual Known Facts in Trayvon Martin case
« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2012, 01:47:14 PM »
C'mon Mal, help me out bro.

The police haven't released anything except to the DA and the media reenactments are not accurate.

Where's all this "other" evidence that Zimmerman's guilty?

Bro? Don't patronize him you Triscut.

The other evidence that was not mentioned is as follows: Martin was black.

Verdict: Guilty.






Skip8282

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Re: Actual Known Facts in Trayvon Martin case
« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2012, 02:00:37 PM »
Bro? Don't patronize him you Triscut.

The other evidence that was not mentioned is as follows: Martin was black.

Verdict: Guilty.










Nah, didn't mean it that way - Mal's a good guy, physician, Steelers fan.

But agreed on the race issue.  I don't think Mal's looking at this objectively.

George Whorewell

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Re: Actual Known Facts in Trayvon Martin case
« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2012, 02:02:02 PM »



Nah, didn't mean it that way - Mal's a good guy, physician, Steelers fan.

But agreed on the race issue.  I don't think Mal's looking at this objectively.

I know you didn't-- but I wanted to come off like an angry black guy.

lol

regmac

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Re: Actual Known Facts in Trayvon Martin case
« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2012, 02:02:25 PM »
He liked tea and skittles :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P
((-::

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Re: Actual Known Facts in Trayvon Martin case
« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2012, 02:20:44 PM »
Racist post reported

Reason:
Attempting to challenge the traditional guilty verdict whenever a black citizen is murdered by a non-black citizen.

Straw Man

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Re: Actual Known Facts in Trayvon Martin case
« Reply #8 on: April 01, 2012, 02:56:43 PM »
C'mon Mal, help me out bro.

The police haven't released anything except to the DA and the media reenactments are not accurate.

Where's all this "other" evidence that Zimmerman's guilty?

this is based on a claim by the city manager

Shall we assume he has seen the evidence because he also says "Sanford Police Department has not released any rendition of the events of the evening to anyone other than the Office of the State Attorney"

Shouldn't this say "to my office and the Office of State Attorney"

If not then how is he arriving at this conclusion?


Skip8282

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Re: Actual Known Facts in Trayvon Martin case
« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2012, 03:02:48 PM »
this is based on a claim by the city manager

Shall we assume he has seen the evidence because he also says "Sanford Police Department has not released any rendition of the events of the evening to anyone other than the Office of the State Attorney"

Shouldn't this say "to my office and the Office of State Attorney"

If not then how is he arriving at this conclusion?






I know reading comprehension isn't your strong point - but at least try to follow.

"In an effort to continue to be as responsive as possible to the public seeking information on
the incident, I have asked Chief Lee to provide answers to some of the most frequently
asked questions regarding this matter. Below are his responses."



::)

Skip8282

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Re: Actual Known Facts in Trayvon Martin case
« Reply #10 on: April 01, 2012, 03:04:11 PM »
In case anybody missed this from the city manager:

"The call taker’s suggestion is not a lawful order that Mr. Zimmerman would be
required to follow."



::)




Ha pwned myself.

Fury

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Re: Actual Known Facts in Trayvon Martin case
« Reply #11 on: April 01, 2012, 03:05:16 PM »
I live in a trailer in Bumfucksville, Florida and watch MSDNC all day. Trust me, I know what happened. Zimmerman is guilty. Lynch him!

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Re: Actual Known Facts in Trayvon Martin case
« Reply #12 on: April 01, 2012, 03:05:21 PM »
Why are all you libs so desperate to paint this as unjustified.

I'm more than willing to agree that when the facts come out - Zimmerman may have committed murder.  But at least let the facts come out.

Straw Man

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Re: Actual Known Facts in Trayvon Martin case
« Reply #13 on: April 01, 2012, 03:07:55 PM »



I know reading comprehension isn't your strong point - but at least try to follow.

"In an effort to continue to be as responsive as possible to the public seeking information on
the incident, I have asked Chief Lee to provide answers to some of the most frequently
asked questions regarding this matter. Below are his responses."



::)

exactly

he didn't look at the evidence

he only passed along what the police told him


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Re: Actual Known Facts in Trayvon Martin case
« Reply #14 on: April 01, 2012, 03:09:02 PM »
Why are all you libs so desperate to paint this as unjustified.

I'm more than willing to agree that when the facts come out - Zimmerman may have committed murder.  But at least let the facts come out.

Why? Because it allows them to push their agenda.

Here's a link to all the bills the Congressional Black Caucus is introducing as a result of this shooting.

http://thehill.com/homenews/house/219385-house-dems-eye-policy-responses-to-shooting-death-of-trayvon-martin

They couldn't care less about Trayvon. All they care about is using his death to get what they want. The lengths leftists will go to in their attempts to grab power never cease to disgust.





Skip8282

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Re: Actual Known Facts in Trayvon Martin case
« Reply #15 on: April 01, 2012, 03:09:19 PM »
exactly

he didn't look at the evidence

he only passed along what the police told him





What's your point?  Are you accusing Chief Lee of lying about the answers?

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Re: Actual Known Facts in Trayvon Martin case
« Reply #16 on: April 01, 2012, 03:09:30 PM »
Why are all you libs so desperate to paint this as unjustified.

I'm more than willing to agree that when the facts come out - Zimmerman may have committed murder.  But at least let the facts come out.

who knows if it's justified or not

there was virtually no investigation at the time of the event or afterward

all we have so far is CYA but the police

Straw Man

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Re: Actual Known Facts in Trayvon Martin case
« Reply #17 on: April 01, 2012, 03:11:45 PM »


What's your point?  Are you accusing Chief Lee of lying about the answers?

I'm saying the city manager can't present opinion told to him by someone as a fact

this could be fully investigated and proven to be self defense and justified but so far there are no actual facts (at least none in the public domain that I'm aware of) to support that

Skip8282

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Re: Actual Known Facts in Trayvon Martin case
« Reply #18 on: April 01, 2012, 03:11:59 PM »
Why? Because it allows them to push their agenda.

Here's a link to all the bills the Congressional Black Caucus is introducing as a result of this shooting.

http://thehill.com/homenews/house/219385-house-dems-eye-policy-responses-to-shooting-death-of-trayvon-martin

They couldn't care less about Trayvon. All they care about is using his death to get what they want. The lengths leftists will go to in their attempts to grab power never cease to disgust.









Damn.

Can't argue with that.

Skip8282

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Re: Actual Known Facts in Trayvon Martin case
« Reply #19 on: April 01, 2012, 03:13:41 PM »


there was virtually no investigation at the time of the event or afterward





The Chief feels otherwise.  And can you support this claim of an investigation not occurring?

Skip8282

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Re: Actual Known Facts in Trayvon Martin case
« Reply #20 on: April 01, 2012, 03:16:10 PM »
I'm saying the city manager can't present opinion told to him by someone as a fact

this could be fully investigated and proven to be self defense and justified but so far there are no actual facts (at least none in the public domain that I'm aware of) to support that



Of course he can - this isn't a court of law.


NO FACTS is the point.  Mal was claiming in another thread that Zimmerman is guilty because of "ALL" the other facts.  240's already convicted Zimmerman.  Protests are occurring by a bunch of clueless people who don't know the facts!

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Re: Actual Known Facts in Trayvon Martin case
« Reply #21 on: April 01, 2012, 03:21:01 PM »


The Chief feels otherwise.  And can you support this claim of an investigation not occurring?

obviously
 
I can only say what I've seen on tape from so called "eyewitness" (which they are not as I don't think anyone, to the best of my knowledge saw the atual event)

Martin was killed in this womans backyard and she is called an "eyewitness" though she didn't see the even either, only the aftermath

to my "claim" of "virtually no investigation at the time" I present this womans claim that the cops didn't question her in detail at the time and she had to chase them down to give them her information


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Re: Actual Known Facts in Trayvon Martin case
« Reply #22 on: April 01, 2012, 03:23:34 PM »
obviously
 
I can only say what I've seen on tape from so called "eyewitness" (which they are not as I don't think anyone, to the best of my knowledge saw the atual event)

Martin was killed in this womans backyard and she is called an "eyewitness" though she didn't see the even either, only the aftermath

to my "claim" of "virtually no investigation at the time" I present this womans claim that the cops didn't question her in detail at the time and she had to chase them down to give them her information


There was another of a young black kid who said he saw TM on top of him smashing his head into the ground.
The vid is here somewhere.

Basically, unless someone can prove that Zimmerman attacked Trayvon in some way (following him doesnt count), he's going to walk, and thats all there is to it.
IF they can prove that Zimmerman struck/grabbed/attacked TM 1st (unlikely being that Trayvon had him on his back smashing his head into the sidewalk) than he would/should be going to jail.

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Re: Actual Known Facts in Trayvon Martin case
« Reply #23 on: April 01, 2012, 03:31:16 PM »
obviously
 
I can only say what I've seen on tape from so called "eyewitness" (which they are not as I don't think anyone, to the best of my knowledge saw the atual event)

Martin was killed in this womans backyard and she is called an "eyewitness" though she didn't see the even either, only the aftermath

to my "claim" of "virtually no investigation at the time" I present this womans claim that the cops didn't question her in detail at the time and she had to chase them down to give them her information






Probably go either way with that.  It doesn't seem she saw anything, and she seems to have the opinion (from the reporter saying it), that even if Zimmerman was getting his a$$ kicked, he shouldn't have shot.  IDK.

Also, has the DA's office even bothered with her?

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Re: Actual Known Facts in Trayvon Martin case
« Reply #24 on: April 01, 2012, 04:13:51 PM »
There was another of a young black kid who said he saw TM on top of him smashing his head into the ground.
The vid is here somewhere.

Basically, unless someone can prove that Zimmerman attacked Trayvon in some way (following him doesnt count), he's going to walk, and thats all there is to it.
IF they can prove that Zimmerman struck/grabbed/attacked TM 1st (unlikely being that Trayvon had him on his back smashing his head into the sidewalk) than he would/should be going to jail.

According to Zimmerman and how does that claim in anyway support the idea the idea that Martin was the instigator?