Jumping from Cycle to Cycle to keep gains but stay somewhat healthy

[diamondcut]

Ok i know we always discuss 12-16-20 week cycles and whatnot,

but in order to maintain constant gains in LBM, without crashing but also staying "safe" and having decent bloodwork,

do you guys blast and cruise? if you blast, for how long? and if you cruise? for how long? do you cycle time on = time off? what is the point of taking huge time off if you lose everything you gained?

do you guys seriously just stay on forever on several gram cycles? that can't be good for health

I mean, how does one go about staying huge and conditioned for a long, long time? safely?

[diamondcut]

thanks BA, makes lots of sense


as far as cruising, what do you recommend for that? like 2x TRT dose (300mg?)


the time on = time off NEVER made sense to me....why take two steps forward and three steps back...


Is it possible to look amazing but stilll have great, great bloodwork?

I'm talking like 1g of tren and 15iu hgh and 1g of short ester test. I can't imagine that being good on the body, but its undoubtable that just about anyone would look really great on that dose and those compounds

the thing is though, it's seems like a slow, steady path to putting yourself in a coffin...


I know some guys like danta and others recommend low dose test and low hgh in the "offseason" but i only think that applies to bodybuilders who care about looking good going into a contest where they blast the compounds...also guys that tell us this, along with eating huge and food as primary anabolic are almost always big, fat, white dudes.

also, i want to look great all season. everyday. 24/7. i want 6% abs but lots of LBM where I actually look big in clothes too. i'm starting to think sacrificing health and lowering my lifespan is the only way to do this.

[muscle19]

use the winter time to have some extra weight on frame, dont need to be conditioned and on large amounts of gear for long time, use that time to come down to HRT dose but keep gh in or something like that...

if you do like to stay on good amounts for long periods of time, get blood tests to make sure all is good

[Glass Gorilla]

I'm curious as well as to what the long term detriments to cruising are.

Would this theoretically shut you down 24/7/365? I assumed that may not necessarily be the case because there's plenty of old men on HRT.

[Glass Gorilla]

I think you have 2 things mixed up here. HRT and shutting down.

Shutting down occurs the moment there is more exogenous hormones (lets say test) then the body makes itself. There is NO need for the body to make it because there is literally more then enough coming in. That is shutdown and it occurs, person dependant, the minute you start injecting more then 100mg test a week.

HRT= hormone replacement. Usually older guys by age are producing too low or not at all own testosterone. They need to replece it. There is NO shutdown here as shutdown can only occur if you are producing something yourself. If you are not like many older guys then there IS nothing to be shutdown. They need a replacement.

Ah thanks for the clarification. But in the case of younger people who produce normal amounts of testosterone wouldn't a 300mg cruise shut them down? or no?

[undead]

Ah thanks for the clarification. But in the case of younger people who produce normal amounts of testosterone wouldn't a 300mg cruise shut them down? or no?

yes. exogenous hormones will shut you down. in the case of 300mg of test, this is something like 3-4x the normal test levels for a guy so you would definately get shut down.

the reason you get shut down is because your test is controlled by a negative feedback loop between the hypothalmus, pituitary gland, and your testicles. you hypothalmus senses how much test you have in you by sensing the concentrations of testossterone, estradiol(formed from test via aromatase), and DHT(formed from test via 5AR). if the levels of these hormones are too low, the hypothalmus produces more GnRH(gonadotropin releasing hormone) which stimulates the pituitary gland to secrete leutinizing hormone(LH) and follicle stimulating hormone(FSH). These hormones bind to cells in the testicles and stimulate them to produce more testosterone(via LH) and sperm cells(via FSH). this is maintained as long as your test levels are within normal ranges.

however when your hormone levels get too high, the hypothalmus stops production of GnRH which leads to "shutdown." this can be reversed with the use of drugs like clomid and nolva but for most people it will happen naturally once you come off(although it will take longer depending on the drug and how long you were on).

[SL1CED]

Ok i know we always discuss 12-16-20 week cycles and whatnot,

but in order to maintain constant gains in LBM, without crashing but also staying "safe" and having decent bloodwork,

do you guys blast and cruise? if you blast, for how long? and if you cruise? for how long? do you cycle time on = time off? what is the point of taking huge time off if you lose everything you gained?

do you guys seriously just stay on forever on several gram cycles? that can't be good for health

I mean, how does one go about staying huge and conditioned for a long, long time? safely?

Just go how life goes, if there's nothing to do, nothing to impress, cruise on a low dose of test or even just oral proviron. When something happens, blast. Even then sometimes, if you have a ton of free time blast again. Just take it how life goes, I don't like to plan a cycle ahead.

[Glass Gorilla]

yes. exogenous hormones will shut you down. in the case of 300mg of test, this is something like 3-4x the normal test levels for a guy so you would definately get shut down.

the reason you get shut down is because your test is controlled by a negative feedback loop between the hypothalmus, pituitary gland, and your testicles. you hypothalmus senses how much test you have in you by sensing the concentrations of testossterone, estradiol(formed from test via aromatase), and DHT(formed from test via 5AR). if the levels of these hormones are too low, the hypothalmus produces more GnRH(gonadotropin releasing hormone) which stimulates the pituitary gland to secrete leutinizing hormone(LH) and follicle stimulating hormone(FSH). These hormones bind to cells in the testicles and stimulate them to produce more testosterone(via LH) and sperm cells(via FSH). this is maintained as long as your test levels are within normal ranges.

however when your hormone levels get too high, the hypothalmus stops production of GnRH which leads to "shutdown." this can be reversed with the use of drugs like clomid and nolva but for most people it will happen naturally once you come off(although it will take longer depending on the drug and how long you were on).

Great response, undead. Now correct me if I'm wrong again, but cruising and blasting really does nothing to help your reproductive/testicular health, only the health of organs like the heart, liver, kidney, etc. That's what I've deduced thus far.

[Hiitsmichael]

Blast 3 months cruise 1-1.5, take a bit of time off to recover mentally every year.

[AlphaMaleDawg]

Blast 3 months cruise 1-1.5, take a bit of time off to recover mentally every year.

I'm really getting sick of this word. We don't take breaks for "mental"" reasons. That is for pussies. We take breaks for health reasons

[Sector]

I'm really getting sick of this word. We don't take breaks for "mental"" reasons. That is for pussies. We take breaks for health reasons

I have to disagree with you, you really thing anyone trying to be a top competitor gives a shit about their health? Im sure they all have a limit they wont exceed, until they hit that limit and decide they need more. Point is they take breaks for mental health and even then its a double edged sword because they will feel like they are shrinking.

I know you have ran tren for 6-8 months straight or something but try doing the same thing with the dose at 1400mg+ with test/eq/mast added in all at above a gram. Obviously a drastic example but my point is taking 2-4 weeks off will feel fucking great mentally after that.

I have been on non stop on various compounds since september. Not really high doses either or the strongest compounds, lots of orals. I am finishing up with 700-1000mg of tren for 4-6 weeks and I can honestly say I am looking foward to taking atleast 3-4 weeks off afterwards purely because I "mentally" need a break.

Not attacking you, just explaining why I disagree.

[flinstones1]

I'm really getting sick of this word. We don't take breaks for "mental"" reasons. That is for pussies. We take breaks for health reasons

 what is the heaviest cycle you can run while still growing (not cruising) while healing your organs at the same time. I imagine tren and orals would be out, test is probably safest I imagine. If you come off a heavy run of tren and your liver enzymes are fucked, yet you still feel like growing and dont have time to cruise. What drugs do you use that's the question, I think all steroids stress the body to some degree androgens are harmful to the kidneys, even testosterone. Maybe high doses of primo and EQ. My body was taking off on 900mg EQ and a gram of tren but I had to stop due to feeling so shitty, three days of no shots and I feel better already. Now I'm stuck with 4 full vials that I can not take..this sucks. I could literally feel it damaging my organs I could not get some energy to save my life and appetite was shot.

[flinstones1]

I have to disagree with you, you really thing anyone trying to be a top competitor gives a shit about their health? Im sure they all have a limit they wont exceed, until they hit that limit and decide they need more. Point is they take breaks for mental health and even then its a double edged sword because they will feel like they are shrinking.

I know you have ran tren for 6-8 months straight or something but try doing the same thing with the dose at 1400mg+ with test/eq/mast added in all at above a gram. Obviously a drastic example but my point is taking 2-4 weeks off will feel fucking great mentally after that.

I have been on non stop on various compounds since september. Not really high doses either or the strongest compounds, lots of orals. I am finishing up with 700-1000mg of tren for 4-6 weeks and I can honestly say I am looking foward to taking atleast 3-4 weeks off afterwards purely because I "mentally" need a break.

Not attacking you, just explaining why I disagree.

only thing that gets old is the pinning ED, misrable when you cant walk or sit cause you hurt from all the shots.

[Sector]

only thing that gets old is the pinning ED, misrable when you cant walk or sit cause you hurt from all the shots.

Agree. I am running tren for atleast 14 weeks this summer.

I have only been on it for 3 weeks this go and I am sick of the Ed shots. Just hit a vein in my tri with an insulin pin this morning, tren cough.

I have a stupid mental roadblock where I cant pin my ass so right now I have very few injection shots. I am hittin delts with hgh daily so I figure I should avoid pinning aas as well.

[flinstones1]

 If I could go back in time  I would of planned things better, do NOT become a junkie as in taking anything can get hands on. Dont start cycles until you have all the gear together, dont get anxious and add other compounds in half way throguh the cycles. Watch your diet, just dont be a half ass juicer is what I'm getting at. Always have a purpose....when your taking gear with no purpose, half ass training, eating whatever you want, that's where shit creeps up on you. Proper planning can make a difference, tons of cash on gear and I finally got big after two years nonstop I got my 18 inch arms....only to have to come off to start right back where  I started at 200 soft. I look a good 5 years older than I am in the face as well. I was more of a hormone collector than a bodybuilder the past two years, I enjoye taking the drugs more than the training even though I got pretty big. Proof that getting big is all drugs hell my GF lifted weights harder than me. I'm cleaning out though,  have a notebook I carry around with me everywhere, all my shots lined out to the T along with diet, training,etc as well as scheduled breaks. Just try to live like a bodybuilder and you will be ok, boozing on Friday nights, staying out late getting crappy sleep, stopping by Mcdonalds three times a week cause you dont pack your meals,not drinking enough water, that's when your blood work gets fucked. Although it will work for a while most will fall with time

[AlphaMaleDawg]

I have to disagree with you, you really thing anyone trying to be a top competitor gives a shit about their health? Im sure they all have a limit they wont exceed, until they hit that limit and decide they need more. Point is they take breaks for mental health and even then its a double edged sword because they will feel like they are shrinking.

I know you have ran tren for 6-8 months straight or something but try doing the same thing with the dose at 1400mg+ with test/eq/mast added in all at above a gram. Obviously a drastic example but my point is taking 2-4 weeks off will feel fucking great mentally after that.

I have been on non stop on various compounds since september. Not really high doses either or the strongest compounds, lots of orals. I am finishing up with 700-1000mg of tren for 4-6 weeks and I can honestly say I am looking foward to taking atleast 3-4 weeks off afterwards purely because I "mentally" need a break.

Not attacking you, just explaining why I disagree.

I know you're not attacking, it's cool.

Yes I do think most pros care about their health. Sure they are more reckless and take much bigger risks but they are still human beings. I am sure they all do things to minimize the damage. If they come off, it hasn't nothing to do with mental reasons. What mental problems are caused by aas? I see a lot of people saying tren gives them mental sides, which I really can't relate to so I guess I can't really comment on that. Maybe you need a mental break, but I can say with certainty most come off/cruise for health reasons (I'm talking about gymrats here, not pros).

How is your health/bloodwork doing all that rotating btw? I am curious

[AlphaMaleDawg]

what is the heaviest cycle you can run while still growing (not cruising) while healing your organs at the same time. I imagine tren and orals would be out, test is probably safest I imagine. If you come off a heavy run of tren and your liver enzymes are fucked, yet you still feel like growing and dont have time to cruise. What drugs do you use that's the question, I think all steroids stress the body to some degree androgens are harmful to the kidneys, even testosterone. Maybe high doses of primo and EQ. My body was taking off on 900mg EQ and a gram of tren but I had to stop due to feeling so shitty, three days of no shots and I feel better already. Now I'm stuck with 4 full vials that I can not take..this sucks. I could literally feel it damaging my organs I could not get some energy to save my life and appetite was shot.

good question. You would really have to know a lot about every compound when it pertains to health risks. The advice given from MD's who deal with AAS patients have told me to go on a trt dose of test, do cardio, consume omega 3s, and eat healthy/organic foods. Some people deal with BP issues, others deal with cholesterol issues (like myself). I guess you would have to know which compounds effect which of those things before knowing if they are ok to use.

[Sector]

I know you're not attacking, it's cool.

Yes I do think most pros care about their health. Sure they are more reckless and take much bigger risks but they are still human beings. I am sure they all do things to minimize the damage. If they come off, it hasn't nothing to do with mental reasons. What mental problems are caused by aas? I see a lot of people saying tren gives them mental sides, which I really can't relate to so I guess I can't really comment on that. Maybe you need a mental break, but I can say with certainty most come off/cruise for health reasons (I'm talking about gymrats here, not pros).

How is your health/bloodwork doing all that rotating btw? I am curious

Liver has actually be great throughout it all. I am talking mostly PHs cycled in and out with tren added here and there at lower doses until now.

I got bloodwork 3 times during this period and the only thing off was my liver values sucked a bit after SD but returned to normal 6 weeks after even though I switched straight to another methylated oral.

I am nearing the end and feeling very run down though, I have a feeling my next bloodwork wont be so good. Not horrible but I can feel that I am in need of a break for physical reasons, perhaps thats why I say I am feeling it mentally? lethargy and such.

Going to get BW 2 days after I stop my tren then take 3-4 weeks off and get BW the day before my blast again.

BP gave me trouble when I was transitioning from a PH to tren at the same time whilst adding 100mcg of t3. IT came down after 2 weeks and some herbal supps.

Heart rate was very high ( 140 bpm at rest ) on 100mcg t3 and tren, I tried to add a single dose of 25mcg ephedrine and resting heart rate hit 160 and stayed there for 8 hours.

Its worth noting that I started this blast at perhaps... 15% BF and at one point I was 20% for sure and now I am around 11/12%. I truely beleive you get more sides with higher BF as I also picked up gyno attempting to run test at 750mg while around 15/16% in the beggining.

[deadpan]

i have not ventured into hormones myself yet but if i were to do it the way you suggest, i would first learn the proper use of peptides and kyno and all the auxiliary drugs (ai's etc) (and get good sources) so you would know how to make the best use of timing to maintain as much mass as possible while natural-ish going off aas.

then you could do like 3 month cycles, i remember gh15 said something about a window of opportunity for 3 months after quitting the gh, so for example 3 months you could blast gh, peptides etc to stay big, then do three months of aas to take advantage of the window of opportunity (swale pct with hcg to prevent shrinkage), then back to the peptides for 3 months etc

but like others have said beyond a certain point you'll have to sacrifice health to some degree and start using insulin etc

[dfresh]

now would there be any problems if say you just took a complete break, as in not even cruising on test, then start right back up in say 2-4 weeks or more?

basically whats going on with me, stopped my test e two weeks ago as i got nothing after 12 weeks...so currently not using any aas...been waiting for my prop/ace to arrive

wish i woulda just started right out with this, instead of the typical "12 weeks test only first cycle"

hey i learned early at least, and didnt wastes years over eating and running test/dbol cycles then losing it all once i come off lol

[Sector]

now would there be any problems if say you just took a complete break, as in not even cruising on test, then start right back up in say 2-4 weeks or more?

basically whats going on with me, stopped my test e two weeks ago as i got nothing after 12 weeks...so currently not using any aas...been waiting for my prop/ace to arrive

wish i woulda just started right out with this, instead of the typical "12 weeks test only first cycle"

hey i learned early at least, and didnt wastes years over eating and running test/dbol cycles then losing it all once i come off lol

Depends on the dose you were running before you stopped. Seeing as how the ester is quite long and takes 2 weeks or so to completely clear I think you will be alright. I would always keep an oral steroid on hand for this, whether it be a PH or Dbol. I always have a stash in case my test is bunk or I run out etc.

[dfresh]

500mg test e..and what would the problem be? you said depending on dose, so im guessing you're saying there could potentially be a problem

[undead]

Great response, undead. Now correct me if I'm wrong again, but cruising and blasting really does nothing to help your reproductive/testicular health, only the health of organs like the heart, liver, kidney, etc. That's what I've deduced thus far.

no youre pretty much right on. i have read that long term AAS use(ie- years on) can cause secondary hypogonadism where your testicles will stop responding to LH so even if you use HCG or do a solid pct you wont start back up. so lowering the dose wont be doing your balls any favors. but blasting for a few months and taking some time off would be good and in my opinion necassary if you wanted to maintain the health of you internal organs and keep everything functioning more or less properly. stuff like tren will do some damage to the liver, kidneys, lipids, etc so some time off would be a good idea IMO.

if you did want to maintain proper testicular health I think you could just do 250IU HCG shots every week and keep your balls more or less from shrinking and keep them responsive to LH. therefore if you did ever want to come off completely you could do so. i say this because ive never seen anything in literature to support that long term AAS use will desensitize the hypothalmus to test, E2, etc(then again i dont think there ever been research done on this type of thing so i could be completely wrong).

there has also been some recent work done on a peptide called triptorelin which is a GnRH agonist that basically restarted a bodybuilder HPTA with one shot after he developed hypogonadism(he had also bee on for years). however i have never used it. i might in the near future and ill post my experiences on here but its another option. i dont know as much about it so i thats all i can tell you.


just a not in case you were wondering, shutting down your HPTA will not completely shut off FSH production. you will still be making some sperm so make sure you wear a latex before you get that late text.

[undead]

I'm really getting sick of this word. We don't take breaks for "mental"" reasons. That is for pussies. We take breaks for health reasons

while i agree that the concept of needing a "mental" break sounds stupid you have to realize that androgens do have activity in the brain. some people who are more prone to these may need to stop using some of the stronger androgens.

personally ive never suffered any negative "mental" effects from any androgen. albeit i dont go crazy with the dosages like some of the guys here but ive used tren and the worst thing that happened to me(not including liver enzymes and blood lipids which really werent that bad) was the coughing and the hair loss. no tren ego or irritability. i swear if i was older and didnt care about my hair i would be using so much more tren.

[Sector]

500mg test e..and what would the problem be? you said depending on dose, so im guessing you're saying there could potentially be a problem

I merely meant a higher dose would be make your situation safer because as the test gradually leaves your body it is at a higher concentration vs if you were injecting 200mg per week, by the end of the first week of no injects you would be at 100mg for your second week where as your at 250mg for your second week if you were injecting 500mg per week.

Bottom line, your fine. I would worry if you start to creep into week 4 with nothing in your blood.