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Author Topic: 10iu GH post workout without slin  (Read 3358 times)
Sector
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« on: April 19, 2012, 07:16:28 PM »

Am I gonna die?

I would like to run my daily dose of 10iu all post workout in an attempt for the best "mass" gains. I dont want to touch slin at this time though. What will happen?

If you scare me enough I will just split it 5/5.
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Hiitsmichael
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« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2012, 07:24:41 PM »

You'll be more than fine:)
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Sector
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« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2012, 07:25:30 PM »

You'll be more than fine:)

I thought I would get the Beeties from lowered insulin resistance?
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Sector
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« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2012, 07:50:35 PM »

Figure I can take some R-ala and a banana or two with my GH dose. I just dont see 3-4 months of 10ius messing with my insulin sensativity in the long run.
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itrain
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« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2012, 09:08:43 PM »

IF your using generics dont consider this ,, if you have pharm then up to 20 and your fine just has to be IV,, IM you should be using slin when using over 10units unless you train EOD then youll be fine
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« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2012, 09:09:29 PM »

you can dose your GH anytime, it really doesn't matter when you are using a whole vial a day. morning, evening, afternoon. same effects.
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Sector
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« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2012, 09:20:31 PM »

you can dose your GH anytime, it really doesn't matter when you are using a whole vial a day. morning, evening, afternoon. same effects.

Hmm, so I am going to disagree but merely because you tend to have alot of info to offer up.

10iu in 1 shot is going to cause a larger spike of IGF. This will effect which effects from HGH your getting more of and which effects your getting less of.

My concern is purely the insulin resistance from 10iu in 1 shot. It will effect insulin resistance differently then 5iu x2.
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Sector
Getbig II
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« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2012, 09:21:35 PM »

IF your using generics dont consider this ,, if you have pharm then up to 20 and your fine just has to be IV,, IM you should be using slin when using over 10units unless you train EOD then youll be fine

Im going to be injecting ED. Is it only alright for EOD simply because your body gets a break from the suppression thus the insulin resistance isnt bad.

So your saying I could get away with 9 iu ? Tongue

And I know you dislike generics greatly so lets assume my 10iu is more like 8/9. Am I dandy now?
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irishdave
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« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2012, 11:36:35 PM »

Ummm...you have me concerned now a little.

I have been injecting:
5iu subq on non-training days.
10iu a day on training days for the last month or so. 5iu subq in morning/5iu IM post workout. But I've started to up it a little in the last two weeks.
On training days now I still shoot about 5iu subq in morning but 6-8iu IM post workout.
All without slin. Is this a bad idea? (using novotropins)
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« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2012, 01:10:11 AM »

Hmm, so I am going to disagree but merely because you tend to have alot of info to offer up.

10iu in 1 shot is going to cause a larger spike of IGF. This will effect which effects from HGH your getting more of and which effects your getting less of.

My concern is purely the insulin resistance from 10iu in 1 shot. It will effect insulin resistance differently then 5iu x2.

i've never seen any evidence to support this. if you split up the dosage or inject it all at once, it's going to have the same effect on insulin resistance. the insulin resistance usually lasts for a day or more when running GH and accumulates, as do the other negative feedback loops from running GH at high dosages.

the insulin resistance is really no big deal though unless you eat a lot of carbs or have issues with diabetes in your family.
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irishdave
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« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2012, 02:37:58 AM »

i've never seen any evidence to support this. if you split up the dosage or inject it all at once, it's going to have the same effect on insulin resistance. the insulin resistance usually lasts for a day or more when running GH and accumulates, as do the other negative feedback loops from running GH at high dosages.

the insulin resistance is really no big deal though unless you eat a lot of carbs or have issues with diabetes in your family.

Will I die of aids if I inject 15iu of HGH without slin in a day?
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hematocritter
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« Reply #11 on: April 20, 2012, 06:33:48 AM »

I used 10iu daily for about 3 months.
Glucose was fine, I checked it now and then with a cheap meter from Walgreens.
If you are concerned about insulin resistance and glucose levels, keep track of it and
adjust your diet if needed.
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Overload
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« Reply #12 on: April 20, 2012, 07:24:42 AM »

you can dose your GH anytime, it really doesn't matter when you are using a whole vial a day. morning, evening, afternoon. same effects.

I concur.

I have used every single GH protocol known to man and none of them changed anything.

Just make sure it's in your blood frequently.

I shoot 10iu post workout 4 days a week and my BG tends to move a little, but only for a few hours. On non-training days i shoot 5iu in the morning and 5iu when i get home from work.

People try to make this more complicated than it is. GH usage is a very grey area but if you have ever spoken to an Endo they will tell you it does not matter when or where you shoot GH.

The ONLY thing that will change your gains on GH is to use MORE of it or to add Slin. Other than that, just shoot it whenever you want.


Cool
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itrain
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« Reply #13 on: April 20, 2012, 08:02:11 AM »

i've never seen any evidence to support this. if you split up the dosage or inject it all at once, it's going to have the same effect on insulin resistance. the insulin resistance usually lasts for a day or more when running GH and accumulates, as do the other negative feedback loops from running GH at high dosages.

the insulin resistance is really no big deal though unless you eat a lot of carbs or have issues with diabetes in your family.

YOU CLEARLY HAVE NO CLUE WHAT YOUR TALKING ABOUT,, AND GIVING PEOPLE ADVICE WHEN YOU CLEARLY NEED SOME YOUR SELF IS JUST ARROGANT...


1. No smaller doses 2-5IU will have little to no effect in the long term on BG levels and insulin resistance, however 10+ IM over a long term period can cause insulin resistance and in some severe cases Diabetes..

AND INSULIN RESISTANCE IS A BIG DEAL REMEMBER WERE BODYBUILDING THE MORE SLIN SENSITIVE YOU ARE THE MORE LEAN MUSCLE YOU CAN BUILD...

Quote
    I shoot 10iu post workout 4 days a week and my BG tends to move a little, but only for a few hours. On non-training days i shoot 5iu in the morning and 5iu when i get home from work.

     
Ofcourse it will be higher after you inject and throughout the day ,, you need to be monitoring your BG right when you wake up this is will tell you...

For ex if your morning BG before using gh was 76-80.. and 6 months later your Morning BG is 98-100 Im sure you can see that it has been progressively shifting towards insulin resistance...

Sector Yes,, You are correct I hate Generics because they are not 191AA I have tried to explain this to everybody but they dont want to listen,, I m not going to get into it ,,, but the insulin resistance is mroe due to the method of adminstration,

If you dose IV GH is in and out and will return to baseline after 2 hours, while Intra muscular keeps levels elevated for 4-6 and you should be at baseline by 6... now include higher amount of IU per dose and IM gets worse and worse in terms of benefits to sides( as is insulin resistance, very high IGF levels etc)


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Sector
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« Reply #14 on: April 20, 2012, 08:36:27 AM »


the insulin resistance is really no big deal though unless you eat a lot of carbs or have issues with diabetes in your family.

I will be eating alot of carbs and I do have diabetes in my family on my mothers side. Damn



I shoot 10iu post workout 4 days a week and my BG tends to move a little, but only for a few hours. On non-training days i shoot 5iu in the morning and 5iu when i get home from work.



That was the plan actually. 10 iu Post workout and 5 am /5 afternoon on off days.




If you dose IV GH is in and out and will return to baseline after 2 hours, while Intra muscular keeps levels elevated for 4-6 and you should be at baseline by 6... now include higher amount of IU per dose and IM gets worse and worse in terms of benefits to sides( as is insulin resistance, very high IGF levels etc)




Do we not want very high igf levels? The bigger spike supposivly is better for mass in that it creates more hyperplasia, I thought the risk was IGF levels that were elevated for periods of time hence 10iu am 10iu PM would be fair different then a single dose of 10iu due to IGF levels being spiked once and not elevated non stop.

Just attempting to make sense of it all.

Perhaps I will have slin on hand and start monitoring my blood glucose. Just not to keen on getting fat with slin, no way am I going to only eat carbs/protein for X amount of hours after my workout. I dont eat like shit when I bulk but I like it for the simple fact I can eat more and different foods.
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« Reply #15 on: April 20, 2012, 10:23:32 AM »

YOU CLEARLY HAVE NO CLUE WHAT YOUR TALKING ABOUT,, AND GIVING PEOPLE ADVICE WHEN YOU CLEARLY NEED SOME YOUR SELF IS JUST ARROGANT...


1. No smaller doses 2-5IU will have little to no effect in the long term on BG levels and insulin resistance, however 10+ IM over a long term period can cause insulin resistance and in some severe cases Diabetes..

AND INSULIN RESISTANCE IS A BIG DEAL REMEMBER WERE BODYBUILDING THE MORE SLIN SENSITIVE YOU ARE THE MORE LEAN MUSCLE YOU CAN BUILD...

this is wrong, ironically by a shouting buffoon telling other people they are misinformed.

5iu will have an affect on insulin sensitivity, so will 2iu shot multiple times a day. there's scientific studies as well as lots and lots of anecdotal evidence from bodybuilders to support this.

in your last assertion you are confused about the role of insulin sensitivity and it's effects on accruing lean body mass and also insulin resistance in building lean bodymass.

i'd suggest, before you start arguing against phantoms of statements you imagined people saying in posts, attempting to be a Don Quixote Guru of bodybuilding, you first should at least crack open a book and take your own advice

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« Reply #16 on: April 20, 2012, 10:42:25 AM »

I will be eating alot of carbs and I do have diabetes in my family on my mothers side. Damn

That was the plan actually. 10 iu Post workout and 5 am /5 afternoon on off days.

Do we not want very high igf levels? The bigger spike supposivly is better for mass in that it creates more hyperplasia, I thought the risk was IGF levels that were elevated for periods of time hence 10iu am 10iu PM would be fair different then a single dose of 10iu due to IGF levels being spiked once and not elevated non stop.

Just attempting to make sense of it all.

Perhaps I will have slin on hand and start monitoring my blood glucose. Just not to keen on getting fat with slin, no way am I going to only eat carbs/protein for X amount of hours after my workout. I dont eat like shit when I bulk but I like it for the simple fact I can eat more and different foods.

i really, really, really doubt that's necessary. you don't need to be scaremongered by some buffoon into thinking you won't be able to build muscle or you'll get diabetes "over time" (what a laughable statement) from using 10iu a day.

as long as you remain physically active and eat sensibly, your BG levels should remain within normal range - most peoples' do - but again this is one of those things that's dictated heavily by genetics and so if you are predisposed on your mother's side, you may end up having fasted BG levels on the higher side of normal - again, that is nothing in itself a huge concern. it won't interfere with building muscle or cause health complications provided it's still in normal range. diabetes is more a function of being inactive, and eating excessive calories and in people genetically predisposed it eventually leads to diabetes. as for others, they can practically never get diabetes, something i've witnessed firsthand on my mothers side of the family.

high igf-1 levels, aren't an issue either, in fact i prefer to have the high igf-1 levels because it greatly aids in quelling tendon pains i get from lifting. there are some negative aspects to it, and while shooting IV does greatly lower systemic igf-1 levels, that is not why anyone shoots GH IV, it is for other reason that makes the method more optimal. the only real concerns with high igf-1 levels are if you have cancer cells, it increases the rate of cancer cell growth, and also high igf-1 levels can also cause some facial features to grow, namely nose and ears since they're comprised of collagen (if you look at the pros running 40-50iu a day, you'll quickly see this is also overblown greatly.)

essentially, i wouldn't worry about it. i can tell you that IVing gh is indeed more optimal for causing hypertrophy and hyperplasia, but it's for none of the reasons stated in this thread and has more to do with how the hgh molecule functions in the body and interacts with hgh receptor sites & growth pathways. But, again, IVing gh in my opinion is pretty excessive for what i feel is a minor benefit (unless the dosages are run real high, at which point it becomes a necessity.)

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US MUSL
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« Reply #17 on: April 20, 2012, 10:48:47 AM »

How long do you wait to eat after your post workout shot?
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« Reply #18 on: April 20, 2012, 10:52:36 AM »

I concur.

I have used every single GH protocol known to man and none of them changed anything.

Just make sure it's in your blood frequently.

I shoot 10iu post workout 4 days a week and my BG tends to move a little, but only for a few hours. On non-training days i shoot 5iu in the morning and 5iu when i get home from work.

People try to make this more complicated than it is. GH usage is a very grey area but if you have ever spoken to an Endo they will tell you it does not matter when or where you shoot GH.

The ONLY thing that will change your gains on GH is to use MORE of it or to add Slin. Other than that, just shoot it whenever you want.


Cool

yes, i agree with this entirely. the drugs aspect of bodybuilding is not complicated but people overcomplicated it, and this is why i really liked gh15's advice because it was simplistic and 100% correct: To get more results from the hormones, up the dosage.
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« Reply #19 on: April 20, 2012, 11:33:33 AM »

Is 15iu too high a dose to be using with just 300mg prop and 150mg tren? I'm thinking about upping the dose to 15iu on training days, which would be 5iu in morning subq and 10iu IM post workout. Probably just shoot 5iu on non training days. Maybe even 10iu.
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itrain
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« Reply #20 on: April 20, 2012, 11:43:50 AM »

Quote
    the insulin resistance usually lasts for a day or more when running GH and accumulates  

If hes using the GH long term dont you think his insulin resistance will continue,,,, LOL and you think it will only last a day to get back to normal? LOL common brotha ,, Books have good information your right but Experiments, and Studies done on humans, rats, with specific guidelines provide much better real world information...

Combined with real world knowledge from my self, and many other bros I think you need to do more research,,

And 2-5 IU dosed 2 times a day morning- night (more then 6 ours apart, which is a fat loss maintence dose) will create no inuslin resistance in long term ,, no one has said 2-5 iu dosed 5 times if this was what you were thinking and im sure most people understood this...

Quote
 essentially, i wouldn't worry about it. i can tell you that IVing gh is indeed more optimal for causing hypertrophy and hyperplasia, but it's for none of the reasons stated in this thread and has more to do with how the hgh molecule functions in the body and interacts with hgh receptor sites & growth pathways. But, again, IVing gh in my opinion is pretty excessive for what i feel is a minor benefit (unless the dosages are run real high, at which point it becomes a necessity.)

  

You are somewhat correct it acts intracellularly to create mgf expression which creates more muscle cells, increasing hypertrophy, IV hits receptors at a very fast rate if dosed IV post workout with maximum blood flow in target muscles the amount of GH that will hit these receptors is 99% more likely to reach them more effeciently than threw IM which has to go through muscle, tissue just to hit the blood stream to get transported thus leaving you with a lesser amount being utilized for growth,,, Not to mention IM alot more usually gets abosorbed through the liver thus the extremely high IGF levels.. IF you are on AAS which im sure you are your IGF will already be elevated significantly ,,,

This is a very breif descrption and i dont feel like writing a novel on here
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Sector
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« Reply #21 on: April 20, 2012, 01:40:57 PM »

i really, really, really doubt that's necessary. you don't need to be scaremongered by some buffoon into thinking you won't be able to build muscle or you'll get diabetes "over time" (what a laughable statement) from using 10iu a day.

as long as you remain physically active and eat sensibly, your BG levels should remain within normal range - most peoples' do - but again this is one of those things that's dictated heavily by genetics and so if you are predisposed on your mother's side, you may end up having fasted BG levels on the higher side of normal - again, that is nothing in itself a huge concern. it won't interfere with building muscle or cause health complications provided it's still in normal range. diabetes is more a function of being inactive, and eating excessive calories and in people genetically predisposed it eventually leads to diabetes. as for others, they can practically never get diabetes, something i've witnessed firsthand on my mothers side of the family.

high igf-1 levels, aren't an issue either, in fact i prefer to have the high igf-1 levels because it greatly aids in quelling tendon pains i get from lifting. there are some negative aspects to it, and while shooting IV does greatly lower systemic igf-1 levels, that is not why anyone shoots GH IV, it is for other reason that makes the method more optimal. the only real concerns with high igf-1 levels are if you have cancer cells, it increases the rate of cancer cell growth, and also high igf-1 levels can also cause some facial features to grow, namely nose and ears since they're comprised of collagen (if you look at the pros running 40-50iu a day, you'll quickly see this is also overblown greatly.)

essentially, i wouldn't worry about it. i can tell you that IVing gh is indeed more optimal for causing hypertrophy and hyperplasia, but it's for none of the reasons stated in this thread and has more to do with how the hgh molecule functions in the body and interacts with hgh receptor sites & growth pathways. But, again, IVing gh in my opinion is pretty excessive for what i feel is a minor benefit (unless the dosages are run real high, at which point it becomes a necessity.)



Thank you for the "novel". I read every bit and its appreciated. 10ius post workout, 4 months with R-Ala and a banana or two with shot.

To answer the person asking how long after Gh do I eat or people in general. You can eat right away, theres something to be said for fasting though in terms of fat loss but that is not my goal in this instance.


Just to be clear, I am not at risk at all of growing my nose or ears at 10iu a day correct? And if that were the case ( assuming its not ) then would splitting it up into two 5iu shots lower the risk?

Im mostly just curious, I am at peace and will keep shit simple now lol.
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Reilly13
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« Reply #22 on: April 20, 2012, 02:22:20 PM »

I concur.

I have used every single GH protocol known to man and none of them changed anything.

Just make sure it's in your blood frequently.

I shoot 10iu post workout 4 days a week and my BG tends to move a little, but only for a few hours. On non-training days i shoot 5iu in the morning and 5iu when i get home from work.

People try to make this more complicated than it is. GH usage is a very grey area but if you have ever spoken to an Endo they will tell you it does not matter when or where you shoot GH.

The ONLY thing that will change your gains on GH is to use MORE of it or to add Slin. Other than that, just shoot it whenever you want.


Cool

Listen to him ^^^^^

He as well as I have used a blood Glucose monitor while using 10 + IUs per day.

Don't listen to the jerkoffs who spout medical research BS.

Find out for yourself by testing your BG levels and find out for sure.

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« Reply #23 on: April 20, 2012, 02:42:30 PM »

If hes using the GH long term dont you think his insulin resistance will continue,,,, LOL and you think it will only last a day to get back to normal? LOL common brotha ,, Books have good information your right but Experiments, and Studies done on humans, rats, with specific guidelines provide much better real world information...

Combined with real world knowledge from my self, and many other bros I think you need to do more research,,

And 2-5 IU dosed 2 times a day morning- night (more then 6 ours apart, which is a fat loss maintence dose) will create no inuslin resistance in long term ,, no one has said 2-5 iu dosed 5 times if this was what you were thinking and im sure most people understood this...

i don't want to argue about semantics in a pedantic matter, that is not my intention or my goal. if you want to keep calling me names, that's fine, you can if you wish, i don't want to derail this guys thread off topic anymore though so i'm going to address this: "And 2-5 IU dosed 2 times a day morning- night (more then 6 ours apart, which is a fat loss maintence dose) will create no inuslin resistance in long term ,, no one has said 2-5 iu dosed 5 times if this was what you were thinking and im sure most people understood this..."

there's a huge range between 2iu and 5iu dosed twice daily, at the lowest end of the range, it's 6iu less GH a day, so yes, it will have less on an impact on causing insulin resistance due to being less overall gh used. at 5iu, dosed 2 times a day, it will indeed increase IGF and insulin resistance, to what extent less than the 10iu shot all at once? Marginally, if any at all, though neither of us can, with certainty, claim exactly how much in a sweeping generalization because there are many many variables.

the issue here with your statement, however, is that you cannot simultaneously claim insulin resistance will be prolonged in the long term with GH usage, while concurrently stating that splitting up the dosage, a mere 6 hours a part (before GH levels from the injections even drop to 0) will not elevate insulin resistance, that insulin sensitivity will return to normal a few hours after an injection. these two notions, are antithetical. either GH injections cause prolonged elevations in insulin resistance, and splitting the injections has no effect on reducing insulin resistance as it will still accrues; or that insulin sensitivity goes back to normal relatively quickly once systemic GH levels drop down to base line. based on studies and personal experience i tend to side with the latter, which brings one to the conclusion that: the risks of permanently causing insulin resistance to the point of diabetes is greatly exaggerated, as the insulin resistance will subside once GH stops being used.

moreover, a very long, intricate peer reviewed study, has proven that diabetes is a reversible health disease with the proper steps, further reinforcing the idea that the likelihood of developing permanent diabetes from using a mere 10iu a day, is greatly greatly exaggerated, regardless how it is injected.
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« Reply #24 on: April 20, 2012, 02:49:21 PM »

Thank you for the "novel". I read every bit and its appreciated. 10ius post workout, 4 months with R-Ala and a banana or two with shot.

To answer the person asking how long after Gh do I eat or people in general. You can eat right away, theres something to be said for fasting though in terms of fat loss but that is not my goal in this instance.


Just to be clear, I am not at risk at all of growing my nose or ears at 10iu a day correct? And if that were the case ( assuming its not ) then would splitting it up into two 5iu shots lower the risk?

Im mostly just curious, I am at peace and will keep shit simple now lol.

i don't know, this is heavily dictated by genetics. look at the pros, and compare their facial structure to when they were younger. most of their faces are unchanged, save for being much "leaner" due to heavy androgenic use. androgens are much more likely to change the way the face looks than anything, but still, compare and contrast people with acromegaly to bodybuilders, who are using much higher levels of GH than those with acromegaly produce naturally, yet the pros look relatively normal (lol, well at least their facial structure.)

i don't think it is a huge risk for most people to be concerned with. dexter jackson does have a huge fucking nose though  Grin
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