Author Topic: how many pros have "fried"/lost their kidneys?  (Read 22017 times)

willie mosconi

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Re: how many pros have "fried"/lost their kidneys?
« Reply #25 on: April 26, 2012, 05:47:50 PM »
I never heard that Fletcher had become ill. When did that happen?

willie mosconi

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Re: how many pros have "fried"/lost their kidneys?
« Reply #26 on: April 26, 2012, 05:56:21 PM »
Just a short list taken from an article published in May 2006

BBs who have died prematurely since 1992
Derrick Whitsett
Don Youngblood
Momo Benaziza
Andreas Munzer
Curtis Leffler
Hans Hopstaken
Sonny Schmidt

BBs whose competitive careers were cut short by illness
Dennis Newman
Mike Francois
Don Long
Flex Wheeler (blames hereditary condition like everyone else)
Tom Prince
Mike Matarazzo (says it must have been the 5lb red meat daily  ::))

BBs that have experienced hospital visits with conditions in which their lives were in danger
Mike Matarazzo
Edgar Fletcher
Paul Dillett (twice)
Milos Sarcev
Nasser El Sonbaty
Bob Cicherillo
Mustafa Mohammad (twice)

They all supposedly overdosed on aspirin  ::)

Paul DeMayo also died early, albeit from a heroin overdose

Overload

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Re: how many pros have "fried"/lost their kidneys?
« Reply #27 on: April 26, 2012, 05:57:01 PM »

So with all the talk about orals and liver toxicity, how many guys have actually had liver failure?

From steroids, zero.

There have been a few cases that i heard about over the years, but i never saw any proof and they didn't have liver failure.

The liver is the most resilient organ in the human body. I've taken 80mg of Dbol for 9-10 months and my liver values were slightly elevated. 6 weeks after i stopped using them my values were perfect.

I'm not saying orals are "safe", but they are not as bad for you as you are led to believe. In fact, alcohol is much worse for you.


8)


Hulkotron

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Re: how many pros have "fried"/lost their kidneys?
« Reply #28 on: April 26, 2012, 06:06:03 PM »
I have congenital propensity for savaging your mother.

wes

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Re: how many pros have "fried"/lost their kidneys?
« Reply #29 on: April 26, 2012, 07:09:00 PM »
Most of these cases were caused by an inherited genetic disorder.
::)

wes

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Re: how many pros have "fried"/lost their kidneys?
« Reply #30 on: April 26, 2012, 07:11:17 PM »
Just a short list taken from an article published in May 2006

BBs who have died prematurely since 1992 [The unknowns have been left out there are many more]
Derrick Whitsett
Don Youngblood
Momo Benaziza
Andreas Munzer
Curtis Leffler
Hans Hopstaken
Sonny Schmidt
Ray Mentzer
Mike Mentzer
Paul Demayo
Momo Benaziza
Fannie Barrios (only female so far)


BBs whose competitive careers were cut short by illness
Dennis Newman
Mike Francois
Don Long
Flex Wheeler (blames hereditary condition like everyone else)
Tom Prince
Mike Matarazzo (says it must have been the 5lb red meat daily  ::))

BBs that have experienced hospital visits with conditions in which their lives were in danger
Mike Matarazzo
Edgar Fletcher
Paul Dillett (twice)
Milos Sarcev
Nasser El Sonbaty
Bob Cicherillo
Mustafa Mohammad (twice)

They all supposedly overdosed on aspirin  ::)
You can throw Eric Otero and Anthony DeAezzo (sp) in there also.

Secret Stack

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Re: how many pros have "fried"/lost their kidneys?
« Reply #31 on: April 26, 2012, 08:37:22 PM »
Secret Stack,

If you look at the literature, and realize that medical literature is kind of archaeic when it comes to health and nutrition. They advocate around 1.2 gm's per kilogram or about half what a typical BB takes in protein wise. I believe Jay was taking in 300-400 grams daily. My feeling is that if you are a serious bodybuilder who is heavily muscled, using androgenics/anabolics/GH etc, it would definitely benefit you to see a physician. A physician has a confidential relationship with you and can't turn you in to the police for steroid use. However, if he is saavy he would get chemistries including liver enzymes and a UA. BP elevations are also very common in bodybuilders. If there is any significant abnormality in the renal function, blood pressure, or urinalysis (proteinuria or spillage of protein), then yes by far the typical bodybuilder diet will cause more damage. However, if the electrolytes, liver enzymes, and urine look good than I doubt it would do much (except for pissing away some expensive protein powder/steak/eggs  ;D. Take care guys.

thanks for the reply. i noticed through my blood tests that my kidneys were pissing away most of my protein when taking in 250g per day.
i now take in 100-150g per day and havent noticed a difference in progress. next blood tests are in a months time to see the difference.

thanks again.

Croatian

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Re: how many pros have "fried"/lost their kidneys?
« Reply #32 on: April 27, 2012, 03:39:40 AM »
Just a short list taken from an article published in May 2006

BBs who have died prematurely since 1992 [The unknowns have been left out there are many more]
Derrick Whitsett
Don Youngblood
Momo Benaziza
Andreas Munzer
Curtis Leffler
Hans Hopstaken
Sonny Schmidt
Ray Mentzer
Mike Mentzer
Paul Demayo
Momo Benaziza
Fannie Barrios (only female so far)
Eric Otero
Anthony DeAezzo

BBs whose competitive careers were cut short by illness
Dennis Newman
Mike Francois
Don Long
Flex Wheeler (blames hereditary condition like everyone else)
Tom Prince
Mike Matarazzo (says it must have been the 5lb red meat daily  ::))

BBs that have experienced hospital visits with conditions in which their lives were in danger
Mike Matarazzo
Edgar Fletcher
Paul Dillett (twice)
Milos Sarcev
Nasser El Sonbaty
Bob Cicherillo
Mustafa Mohammad (twice)

They all supposedly overdosed on aspirin  ::)

Gregor Koman NABBA Mr.Universe 2004 (Class 1) died too.

Jaime

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Re: how many pros have "fried"/lost their kidneys?
« Reply #33 on: April 27, 2012, 11:44:07 AM »
From steroids, zero.

There have been a few cases that i heard about over the years, but i never saw any proof and they didn't have liver failure.

The liver is the most resilient organ in the human body. I've taken 80mg of Dbol for 9-10 months and my liver values were slightly elevated. 6 weeks after i stopped using them my values were perfect.

I'm not saying orals are "safe", but they are not as bad for you as you are led to believe. In fact, alcohol is much worse for you.


8)




I thought the same, i have never heard of the health complications being linked to the liver. It's always kidney, heart, issues. Not to say that it can't be damaging but it seems to get exaggerated.

If you look at the level of alcohol abuse currently in society it's pretty strange, people don't seem to associate alcohol, or smoking with drugs usage. Even a lot of heavier recreational drug use is not put in the same negative light that steroid usage is put in.
Trans Milkshake.

nicorulez

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Re: how many pros have "fried"/lost their kidneys?
« Reply #34 on: April 27, 2012, 07:15:39 PM »
thanks for the reply. i noticed through my blood tests that my kidneys were pissing away most of my protein when taking in 250g per day.
i now take in 100-150g per day and havent noticed a difference in progress. next blood tests are in a months time to see the difference.

thanks again.

Secret, have your doc get a random urine protein and random urine creatinine level. Also, get a BMP,Mg,Phos, You can pm the info and I can tell you if there is anything to be concerned about. Take care.

Nico

nicorulez

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Re: how many pros have "fried"/lost their kidneys?
« Reply #35 on: April 27, 2012, 07:23:32 PM »

I thought the same, i have never heard of the health complications being linked to the liver. It's always kidney, heart, issues. Not to say that it can't be damaging but it seems to get exaggerated.

If you look at the level of alcohol abuse currently in society it's pretty strange, people don't seem to associate alcohol, or smoking with drugs usage. Even a lot of heavier recreational drug use is not put in the same negative light that steroid usage is put in.


I have a 32 yo buddy who was trying to go pro. He won a national level qualifier. He started going heavy on the anabolica and GH. He developed liver cancer and had a partial hepatectomy.  He is doing well now and only takes maintenance testosterone as he had over-suppressed his normal pathway. Doing much better. Bodybuilders tend to abuse more than only steroids. If they drink heavily and abuse anabolics they will get liver problems. It is not even debateable.

willie mosconi

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Re: how many pros have "fried"/lost their kidneys?
« Reply #36 on: April 28, 2012, 12:10:26 PM »
Most of the guys from the '60s and '70s made it through okay, correct? It is only the modern era with all of the cocktails of gear that have led to this it seems

deceiver

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Re: how many pros have "fried"/lost their kidneys?
« Reply #37 on: April 28, 2012, 12:38:43 PM »
one lie circulating is the one that injectable steroids wont raise liver enzymes.

the truth-atleast in my case-is, they will simply not raise liver enzymes as much as oral steroids will.

but they will.

a friend had the liver enzyme transaminase gpt (alat) raised to 120u/l

on 500mg test weekly and couple beers weekly.

the liver has no pain nerves, you wont feel any pain in the liver,lol.but your eyes might turn bit yellow and then its too late.

liver recovers quite good from abuse, but to say theres no issues is ridiculus.

you can straigh up obliterate it if youre not careful, you can get livercirrhosis or cancer.

have the enzymes monitored by dovtor, then talk.

do try it, have little bit injectables and nothing else and see.
then add bit alcohoic drinks and see again.

and when the liver has problems, some other issues might follow suit.



What? My friend used test and deca for half a year, done dianabol, drank alcohol. He tested his liver and results came back near perfect, just little bit above normal.

My liver levels were perfect after half a year on.

Raymondo

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Re: how many pros have "fried"/lost their kidneys?
« Reply #38 on: April 28, 2012, 01:58:16 PM »
one lie circulating is the one that injectable steroids wont raise liver enzymes.

the truth-atleast in my case-is, they will simply not raise liver enzymes as much as oral steroids will.

but they will.

a friend had the liver enzyme transaminase gpt (alat) raised to 120u/l

on 500mg test weekly and couple beers weekly.

the liver has no pain nerves, you wont feel any pain in the liver,lol.but your eyes might turn bit yellow and then its too late.

liver recovers quite good from abuse, but to say theres no issues is ridiculus.

you can straigh up obliterate it if youre not careful, you can get livercirrhosis or cancer.

have the enzymes monitored by dovtor, then talk.

do try it, have little bit injectables and nothing else and see.
then add bit alcohoic drinks and see again.

and when the liver has problems, some other issues might follow suit.



more like couple of dozen beers weekly

EH

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Re: how many pros have "fried"/lost their kidneys?
« Reply #39 on: April 28, 2012, 02:06:58 PM »
one lie circulating is the one that injectable steroids wont raise liver enzymes.

the truth-atleast in my case-is, they will simply not raise liver enzymes as much as oral steroids will.

but they will.

a friend had the liver enzyme transaminase gpt (alat) raised to 120u/l

on 500mg test weekly and couple beers weekly.

the liver has no pain nerves, you wont feel any pain in the liver,lol.but your eyes might turn bit yellow and then its too late.

liver recovers quite good from abuse, but to say theres no issues is ridiculus.

you can straigh up obliterate it if youre not careful, you can get livercirrhosis or cancer.

have the enzymes monitored by dovtor, then talk.

do try it, have little bit injectables and nothing else and see.
then add bit alcohoic drinks and see again.

and when the liver has problems, some other issues might follow suit.



back in '03/'04, I was running 6-7g's a week (3500 test plus other stuff), and drinking 2 liters of vodka per day, my liver enzymes were nearly 300 (ast/alt), within a few months of no-drinking (and rehab), my ast/alt were below 50.

oldtimer1

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Re: how many pros have "fried"/lost their kidneys?
« Reply #40 on: April 28, 2012, 02:50:46 PM »
Someone said it before on this thread but how many of these steroid gurus couldn't pass a chemistry 101 course? For all anyone knows these internet steroid advisors could be the guy who asks you if you want fries with that burger.  Since they made steroids a felony who knows what's in these vials you inject. Do you trust the guy selling the stuff out of the trunk of his car in the parking lot of your gym? Is that box coming to you UPS from shady address a reputable source?  There are a lot of vials coming out of china with phony labels. If you are willing to fork over $100 plus for a vial there are people willing to sell any crap in a bottle laughing as their computer prints out a label.

canyon

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Re: how many pros have "fried"/lost their kidneys?
« Reply #41 on: April 28, 2012, 09:22:09 PM »
Being on dialysis is not pleasant.

I knew three individuals from the gym, two of them killed themselves after years of dialysis. Only one did amateur competitions. This was posted a while back.

Anyways ...

... it happens a lot more often than we here about it. We only hear about it because of the big names in BB being attention whores long after their days of glory, if any. Then to put icing on the cake they all play the genetic predisposition betty crocker cookie cutter bullshit card to convince the masses otherwise. We all know better.  ::)

Most users spend more time planning their cycle, then 30minutes with a doctor every few months to see if things are in order.

P.S. And watch out if you ever need surgery while juiced to the gills. One good buddy died on the table, because they could not get his blood to coagulate 7 days later. This is no joke. I cut my index finger at the gym on 1st cycle, it literally bled for 2 hours like never before. Imagine major surgery on the knees.

Health before bros and hoes!
I call BS...they do bloodwork prior to surgery date, if hematocrite is high they will cancel surgery.

nicorulez

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Re: how many pros have "fried"/lost their kidneys?
« Reply #42 on: April 29, 2012, 05:10:22 AM »
I call BS...they do bloodwork prior to surgery date, if hematocrite is high they will cancel surgery.

Canyon, you are mistaken. If you are a young twenty to thirty year bodybuilder with no past medical history or history of bleeding disorders, anesthesia will often not even check a PT/INR for coagulopathy. Hematocrit and hemoglobin have nothing to do with a bleeding disorder. It is very possible that the operation with uncontrolled bleeding occurred. Taken from emedicine:

Summary

Routine preoperative testing (preoperative screening) of healthy people undergoing elective surgery is not recommended. Instead, a selective strategy, as outlined above, is safe and cost-effective as long as a complete history and physical examination are obtained. Based on the available evidence, the authors recommend the following preoperative tests:

    Hemoglobin level for major surgery with significant expected blood loss or in patients 65 years or older
    Serum creatinine level for people older than 50 years
    Pregnancy testing in all reproductive-age group women.
    ECG in patients undergoing high-risk surgery (eg, vascular surgery) or intermediate-risk surgery and with at least one risk factor
    CXR in patients older than 60 years

No laboratory test must be repeated if results were normal within 4 months of the surgery and no change in the patient's clinical status occurred.

Finally, this strategy applies only to healthy, asymptomatic patients undergoing elective surgery. Patients with suspected pulmonary or cardiac disease or those undergoing urgent operation require additional evaluation that is beyond the scope of this article.

naturalbodybuilder

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Re: how many pros have "fried"/lost their kidneys?
« Reply #43 on: April 29, 2012, 08:38:55 AM »
pavol jabloniky, claud growlx,

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Re: how many pros have "fried"/lost their kidneys?
« Reply #44 on: April 29, 2012, 12:38:06 PM »
Tom Prince is a pro who is on dialysis. Flex also lost his kidneys and is now status post a renal transplant. A good friend of mine who was a local BB lost his kidneys and had a transplant. I suspect it is a combination of insane amounts of juice, blood pressure that is through the roof, and a disease called secondary focal segmental glomerulosclerosis which is a disorder where the kidney is spilling a lot of protein (often nephrotic which is defined as greater than 3.5 grams of protein daily when the usual is < 150 mg/daily). FSGS causes an inflammatory condition in the kidneys locally which leads to scarring and eventual renal failure. The end result is often dialysis or transplant. I should know, I treat patients everyday for kidney disease  ;)


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2799287/


Lets also not forget that these guys blood sugar is through the roof most of the day because they're slamming insulin and eating like shit because they think they can get away with it because of the HGH that is keeping the fat off their body.  They're all type 2's diabetics. Most of these people really don't have a clue about how bad sugar will fuck you up.

Secret Stack

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Re: how many pros have "fried"/lost their kidneys?
« Reply #45 on: April 30, 2012, 06:19:23 AM »
Secret, have your doc get a random urine protein and random urine creatinine level. Also, get a BMP,Mg,Phos, You can pm the info and I can tell you if there is anything to be concerned about. Take care.

Nico

thats kind of u, thanks. he is a top kidney specialist but will also pass on results to u,

thanks,