Author Topic: zimmerman history, media must have forgot this part  (Read 11315 times)

pro nitrousADRL

  • Getbig III
  • ***
  • Posts: 870
  • put more nitrous on that, it still has spark plugs
zimmerman history, media must have forgot this part
« on: April 26, 2012, 09:12:40 AM »
SANFORD, Florida (Reuters) - A pit bull named Big Boi began menacing George and Shellie Zimmerman in the fall of 2009.
 
The first time the dog ran free and cornered Shellie in their gated community in Sanford, Florida, George called the owner to complain. The second time, Big Boi frightened his mother-in-law's dog. Zimmerman called Seminole County Animal Services and bought pepper spray. The third time he saw the dog on the loose, he called again. An officer came to the house, county records show.
 
"Don't use pepper spray," he told the Zimmermans, according to a friend. "It'll take two or three seconds to take effect, but a quarter second for the dog to jump you," he said.
 
"Get a gun."
 
That November, the Zimmermans completed firearms training at a local lodge and received concealed-weapons gun permits. In early December, another source close to them told Reuters, the couple bought a pair of guns. George picked a Kel-Tec PF-9 9mm handgun, a popular, lightweight weapon.
 
By June 2011, Zimmerman's attention had shifted from a loose pit bull to a wave of robberies that rattled the community, called the Retreat at Twin Lakes. The homeowners association asked him to launch a neighborhood watch, and Zimmerman would begin to carry the Kel-Tec on his regular, dog-walking patrol - a violation of neighborhood watch guidelines but not a crime.
 
Few of his closest neighbors knew he carried a gun - until two months ago.
 
On February 26, George Zimmerman shot and killed unarmed black teenager Trayvon Martin in what Zimmerman says was self-defense. The furor that ensued has consumed the country and prompted a re-examination of guns, race and self-defense laws enacted in nearly half the United States.
 
During the time Zimmerman was in hiding, his detractors defined him as a vigilante who had decided Martin was suspicious merely because he was black. After Zimmerman was finally arrested on a charge of second-degree murder more than six weeks after the shooting, prosecutors portrayed him as a violent and angry man who disregarded authority by pursuing the 17-year-old.
 
But a more nuanced portrait of Zimmerman has emerged from a Reuters investigation into Zimmerman's past and a series of incidents in the community in the months preceding the Martin shooting.
 
Based on extensive interviews with relatives, friends, neighbors, schoolmates and co-workers of Zimmerman in two states, law enforcement officials, and reviews of court documents and police reports, the story sheds new light on the man at the center of one of the most controversial homicide cases in America.
 
The 28-year-old insurance-fraud investigator comes from a deeply Catholic background and was taught in his early years to do right by those less fortunate. He was raised in a racially integrated household and himself has black roots through an Afro-Peruvian great-grandfather - the father of the maternal grandmother who helped raise him.
 
A criminal justice student who aspired to become a judge, Zimmerman also concerned himself with the safety of his neighbors after a series of break-ins committed by young African-American men.
 
Though civil rights demonstrators have argued Zimmerman should not have prejudged Martin, one black neighbor of the Zimmermans said recent history should be taken into account.
 
"Let's talk about the elephant in the room. I'm black, OK?" the woman said, declining to be identified because she anticipated backlash due to her race. She leaned in to look a reporter directly in the eyes. "There were black boys robbing houses in this neighborhood," she said. "That's why George was suspicious of Trayvon Martin."
 
"MIXED" HOUSEHOLD
 
George Michael Zimmerman was born in 1983 to Robert and Gladys Zimmerman, the third of four children. Robert Zimmerman Sr. was a U.S. Army veteran who served in Vietnam in 1970, and was stationed at Fort Myer in Arlington, Virginia, in 1975 with Gladys Mesa's brother George. Zimmerman Sr. also served two tours in Korea, and spent the final 10 years of his 22-year military career in the Pentagon, working for the Department of Defense, a family member said.
 
In his final years in Virginia before retiring to Florida, Robert Zimmerman served as a magistrate in Fairfax County's 19th Judicial District.
 
Robert and Gladys met in January 1975, when George Mesa brought along his army buddy to his sister's birthday party. She was visiting from Peru, on vacation from her job there as a physical education teacher. Robert was a Baptist, Gladys was Catholic. They soon married, in a Catholic ceremony in Alexandria, and moved to nearby Manassas.
 
Gladys came to lead a small but growing Catholic Hispanic enclave within the All Saints Catholic Church parish in the late 1970s, where she was involved in the church's outreach programs. Gladys would bring young George along with her on "home visits" to poor families, said a family friend, Teresa Post.
 
"It was part of their upbringing to know that there are people in need, people more in need than themselves," said Post, a Peruvian immigrant who lived with the Zimmermans for a time.
 
Post recalls evening prayers before dinner in the ethnically diverse Zimmerman household, which included siblings Robert Jr., Grace, and Dawn. "It wasn't only white or only Hispanic or only black - it was mixed," she said.
 
Zimmerman's maternal grandmother, Cristina, who had lived with the Zimmermans since 1978, worked as a babysitter for years during Zimmerman's childhood. For several years she cared for two African-American girls who ate their meals at the Zimmerman house and went back and forth to school each day with the Zimmerman children.
 
"They were part of the household for years, until they were old enough to be on their own," Post said.
 
Zimmerman served as an altar boy at All Saints from age 7 to 17, church members said.
 
"He wasn't the type where, you know, 'I'm being forced to do this,' and a dragging-his-feet Catholic," said Sandra Vega, who went to high school with George and his siblings. "He was an altar boy for years, and then worked in the rectory too. He has a really good heart."
 
George grew up bilingual, and by age 10 he was often called to the Haydon Elementary School principal's office to act as a translator between administrators and immigrant parents. At 14 he became obsessed with becoming a Marine, a relative said, joining the after-school ROTC program at Grace E. Metz Middle School and polishing his boots by night. At 15, he worked three part-time jobs - in a Mexican restaurant, for the rectory, and washing cars - on nights and weekends, to save up for a car.
 
After graduating from Osbourn High School in 2001, Zimmerman moved to Lake Mary, Florida, a town neighboring Sanford. His parents purchased a retirement home there in 2002, in part to bring Cristina, who suffers from arthritis, to a warmer climate.
 
YOUNG INSURANCE AGENT
 
On his own at 18, George got a job at an insurance agency and began to take classes at night to earn a license to sell insurance. He grew friendly with a real estate agent named Lee Ann Benjamin, who shared office space in the building, and later her husband, John Donnelly, a Sanford attorney.
 
"George impressed me right off the bat as just a real go-getter," Donnelly said. "He was working days and taking all these classes at night, passing all the insurance classes, not just for home insurance, but auto insurance and everything. He wanted to open his own office - and he did."
 
In 2004, Zimmerman partnered with an African-American friend and opened up an Allstate insurance satellite office, Donnelly said.
 
Then came 2005, and a series of troubles. Zimmerman's business failed, he was arrested, and he broke off an engagement with a woman who filed a restraining order against him.
 
That July, Zimmerman was charged with resisting arrest, violence, and battery of an officer after shoving an undercover alcohol-control agent who was arresting an under-age friend of Zimmerman's at a bar. He avoided conviction by agreeing to participate in a pre-trial diversion program that included anger-management classes.
 
In August, Zimmerman's fiancee at the time, Veronica Zuazo, filed a civil motion for a restraining order alleging domestic violence. Zimmerman reciprocated with his own order on the same grounds, and both orders were granted. The relationship ended.
 
In 2007 he married Shellie Dean, a licensed cosmetologist, and in 2009 the couple rented a townhouse in the Retreat at Twin Lakes. Zimmerman had bounced from job to job for a couple of years, working at a car dealership and a mortgage company. At times, according to testimony from Shellie at a bond hearing for Zimmerman last week, the couple filed for unemployment benefits.
 
Zimmerman enrolled in Seminole State College in 2009, and in December 2011 he was permitted to participate in a school graduation ceremony, despite being a course credit shy of his associate's degree in criminal justice. Zimmerman was completing that course credit when the shooting occurred.
 
On March 22, nearly a month after the shooting and with the controversy by then swirling nationwide, the school issued a press release saying it was taking the "unusual, but necessary" step of withdrawing Zimmerman's enrollment, citing "the safety of our students on campus as well as for Mr. Zimmerman."
 
A NEIGHBORHOOD IN FEAR
 
By the summer of 2011, Twin Lakes was experiencing a rash of burglaries and break-ins. Previously a family-friendly, first-time homeowner community, it was devastated by the recession that hit the Florida housing market, and transient renters began to occupy some of the 263 town houses in the complex. Vandalism and occasional drug activity were reported, and home values plunged. One resident who bought his home in 2006 for $250,000 said it was worth $80,000 today.
 
At least eight burglaries were reported within Twin Lakes in the 14 months prior to the Trayvon Martin shooting, according to the Sanford Police Department. Yet in a series of interviews, Twin Lakes residents said dozens of reports of attempted break-ins and would-be burglars casing homes had created an atmosphere of growing fear in the neighborhood.
 
In several of the incidents, witnesses identified the suspects to police as young black men. Twin Lakes is about 50 percent white, with an African-American and Hispanic population of about 20 percent each, roughly similar to the surrounding city of Sanford, according to U.S. Census data.
 
One morning in July 2011, a black teenager walked up to Zimmerman's front porch and stole a bicycle, neighbors told Reuters. A police report was taken, though the bicycle was not recovered.
 
But it was the August incursion into the home of Olivia Bertalan that really troubled the neighborhood, particularly Zimmerman. Shellie was home most days, taking online courses towards certification as a registered nurse.
 
On August 3, Bertalan was at home with her infant son while her husband, Michael, was at work. She watched from a downstairs window, she said, as two black men repeatedly rang her doorbell and then entered through a sliding door at the back of the house. She ran upstairs, locked herself inside the boy's bedroom, and called a police dispatcher, whispering frantically.
 
"I said, 'What am I supposed to do? I hear them coming up the stairs!'" she told Reuters. Bertalan tried to coo her crying child into silence and armed herself with a pair of rusty scissors.
 
Police arrived just as the burglars - who had been trying to disconnect the couple's television - fled out a back door. Shellie Zimmerman saw a black male teen running through her backyard and reported it to police.
 
After police left Bertalan, George Zimmerman arrived at the front door in a shirt and tie, she said. He gave her his contact numbers on an index card and invited her to visit his wife if she ever felt unsafe. He returned later and gave her a stronger lock to bolster the sliding door that had been forced open.
 
"He was so mellow and calm, very helpful and very, very sweet," she said last week. "We didn't really know George at first, but after the break-in we talked to him on a daily basis. People were freaked out. It wasn't just George calling police ... we were calling police at least once a week."
 
In September, a group of neighbors including Zimmerman approached the homeowners association with their concerns, she said. Zimmerman was asked to head up a new neighborhood watch. He agreed.
 
"PLEASE CONTACT OUR CAPTAIN"
 
Police had advised Bertalan to get a dog. She and her husband decided to move out instead, and left two days before the shooting. Zimmerman took the advice.
 
"He'd already had a mutt that he walked around the neighborhood every night - man, he loved that dog - but after that home invasion he also got a Rottweiler," said Jorge Rodriguez, a friend and neighbor of the Zimmermans.
 
Around the same time, Zimmerman also gave Rodriguez and his wife, Audria, his contact information, so they could reach him day or night. Rodriguez showed the index card to Reuters. In neat cursive was a list of George and Shellie's home number and cell phones, as well as their emails.
 
Less than two weeks later, another Twin Lakes home was burglarized, police reports show. Two weeks after that, a home under construction was vandalized.
 
The Retreat at Twin Lakes e-newsletter for February 2012 noted: "The Sanford PD has announced an increased patrol within our neighborhood ... during peak crime hours.
 
"If you've been a victim of a crime in the community, after calling police, please contact our captain, George Zimmerman."
 
EMMANUEL BURGESS - SETTING THE STAGE
 
On February 2, 2012, Zimmerman placed a call to Sanford police after spotting a young black man he recognized peering into the windows of a neighbor's empty home, according to several friends and neighbors.
 
"I don't know what he's doing. I don't want to approach him, personally," Zimmerman said in the call, which was recorded. The dispatcher advised him that a patrol car was on the way. By the time police arrived, according to the dispatch report, the suspect had fled.
 
On February 6, the home of another Twin Lakes resident, Tatiana Demeacis, was burglarized. Two roofers working directly across the street said they saw two African-American men lingering in the yard at the time of the break-in. A new laptop and some gold jewelry were stolen. One of the roofers called police the next day after spotting one of the suspects among a group of male teenagers, three black and one white, on bicycles.
 
Police found Demeacis's laptop in the backpack of 18-year-old Emmanuel Burgess, police reports show, and charged him with dealing in stolen property. Burgess was the same man Zimmerman had spotted on February 2.
 
Burgess had committed a series of burglaries on the other side of town in 2008 and 2009, pleaded guilty to several, and spent all of 2010 incarcerated in a juvenile facility, his attorney said. He is now in jail on parole violations.
 
Three days after Burgess was arrested, Zimmerman's grandmother was hospitalized for an infection, and the following week his father was also admitted for a heart condition. Zimmerman spent a number of those nights on a hospital room couch.
 
Ten days after his father was hospitalized, Zimmerman noticed another young man in the neighborhood, acting in a way he found familiar, so he made another call to police.
 
"We've had some break-ins in my neighborhood, and there's a real suspicious guy," Zimmerman said, as Trayvon Martin returned home from the store.
 
The last time Zimmerman had called police, to report Burgess, he followed protocol and waited for police to arrive. They were too late, and Burgess got away.
 
This time, Zimmerman was not so patient, and he disregarded police advice against pursuing Martin.
 
"These assholes," he muttered in an aside, "they always get away."
 
After the phone call ended, several minutes passed when the movements of Zimmerman and Martin remain a mystery.
 
Moments later, Martin lay dead with a bullet in his chest.
down with hussein

Vince G, CSN MFT

  • Competitors II
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 25737
  • GETBIG3.COM!
Re: zimmerman history, media must have forgot this part
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2012, 09:21:39 AM »
A gated community honestly should have hired a security officer or an off duty cop seeing as how they are collecting all of those HOA fees
A

pro nitrousADRL

  • Getbig III
  • ***
  • Posts: 870
  • put more nitrous on that, it still has spark plugs
Re: zimmerman history, media must have forgot this part
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2012, 09:27:32 AM »
cop or security guard, if they would have been white it still would have been handled the same way by the media and the activists.
down with hussein

240 is Back

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 102396
  • Complete website for only $300- www.300website.com
Re: zimmerman history, media must have forgot this part
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2012, 09:42:54 AM »
A gated community honestly should have hired a security officer or an off duty cop seeing as how they are collecting all of those HOA fees

yeah, agreed.

No matter what the history of the place was, Trayvon was just a kid walking home from buying candy.   Making a direct beeline for his house.  He "looked like" people who had been robbing places, but he wasn't.   He was on the phone chatting with his girl and walking to her house.  He was a block away.

It's a shitty set of circumstances, but I think we all know ZImm probably just should have stayed in his truck.... as he told the police 911 dispatcher that he would do.  He said he'd meet them at the mailbox.  Instead, he took his gun and he followed a kid for 2 blocks and asked him 'what are you doing here'.

I dunno, if it's dark, and you're walking home, and after 2 blocks of some stranger with a gun following you - he suddenly approaches you - shit, i think everyone here would be ready to fight.   ZImmerman may have let that gun bulge show... lol "keltec 9 mm"  piece of shit.

pro nitrousADRL

  • Getbig III
  • ***
  • Posts: 870
  • put more nitrous on that, it still has spark plugs
Re: zimmerman history, media must have forgot this part
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2012, 09:47:40 AM »
agreed kel- tec, pos he shoulda had a sig 229 shooting 357 sig rounds, or a kimber
down with hussein

grab an umbrella

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2039
Re: zimmerman history, media must have forgot this part
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2012, 09:50:46 AM »
yeah, agreed.

No matter what the history of the place was, Trayvon was just a kid walking home from buying candy.   Making a direct beeline for his house.  He "looked like" people who had been robbing places, but he wasn't.   He was on the phone chatting with his girl and walking to her house.  He was a block away.

It's a shitty set of circumstances, but I think we all know ZImm probably just should have stayed in his truck.... as he told the police 911 dispatcher that he would do.  He said he'd meet them at the mailbox.  Instead, he took his gun and he followed a kid for 2 blocks and asked him 'what are you doing here'.

I dunno, if it's dark, and you're walking home, and after 2 blocks of some stranger with a gun following you - he suddenly approaches you - shit, i think everyone here would be ready to fight.   ZImmerman may have let that gun bulge show... lol "keltec 9 mm"  piece of shit.

Why do you lie? That's a serious question.

240 is Back

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 102396
  • Complete website for only $300- www.300website.com
Re: zimmerman history, media must have forgot this part
« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2012, 09:53:38 AM »
Why do you lie? That's a serious question.

which part do i have wrong?

"OK, do you just want to meet with them at the mailboxes then? Zimmerman: Yeah, that's fine. 911 dispatcher: Alright, George, I'll let them know "

grab an umbrella

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2039
Re: zimmerman history, media must have forgot this part
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2012, 09:59:18 AM »
which part do i have wrong?
::)
Answer the question.

240 is Back

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 102396
  • Complete website for only $300- www.300website.com
Re: zimmerman history, media must have forgot this part
« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2012, 10:01:44 AM »
::)
Answer the question.


I didn't know i was lying.  it's how i feel.  if i'm tailed by someone 2 blocks to my house and he gets to a distance where he can speak to me, shit is on already.  honestly.

Purge_WTF

  • Guest
Re: zimmerman history, media must have forgot this part
« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2012, 10:04:26 AM »
  I can sympathize with 240's perspective here. If someone starts tailing me in my neighborhood for no reason and asks me what I'm doing there, I'm gonna get heated. I wouldn't attack the guy and slam his head into the curb--if that's what Treyvon did--but I'd be irritated.

grab an umbrella

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2039
Re: zimmerman history, media must have forgot this part
« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2012, 10:07:02 AM »
  I can sympathize with 240's perspective here. If someone starts tailing me in my neighborhood for no reason and asks me what I'm doing there, I'm gonna get heated. I wouldn't attack the guy and slam his head into the curb--if that's what Treyvon did--but I'd be irritated.

I'll give it to 240. He's clever enough to frame the argument to his advantage. Unfortunately from what we know z didn't confront t. It was the other way around.

240 is Back

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 102396
  • Complete website for only $300- www.300website.com
Re: zimmerman history, media must have forgot this part
« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2012, 10:09:29 AM »
I'll give it to 240. He's clever enough to frame the argument to his advantage. Unfortunately from what we know z didn't confront t. It was the other way around.

Aside from Zimm's own self-serving words...

what other witness claims they saw trayvon doing the attacking?  Link please?

I thought the only witness testimonies was that they all looked out once the fight was already on the ground.  Nobody saw it start.  the only witnesses were Tm's GF on the phone, and zimm himself.   Is that 'what we know'?   Or is there another witness?

Shockwave

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 20807
  • Decepticons! Scramble!
Re: zimmerman history, media must have forgot this part
« Reply #12 on: April 26, 2012, 10:17:58 AM »
Aside from Zimm's own self-serving words...

what other witness claims they saw trayvon doing the attacking?  Link please?

I thought the only witness testimonies was that they all looked out once the fight was already on the ground.  Nobody saw it start.  the only witnesses were Tm's GF on the phone, and zimm himself.   Is that 'what we know'?   Or is there another witness?
Pretty sure it came out that the GF was lieing.

And you lied when you said this -
Instead, he took his gun and he followed a kid for 2 blocks and asked him 'what are you doing here'.

And this -
Zimm probably just should have stayed in his truck.... as he told the police 911 dispatcher that he would do.

He never told the dispatcher he would stay in his truck, and he didnt ask him anything that were aware of.

People call you out for lieing because you frame a entire conversation around a couple small lies to make the story seem completely different than how it actually went down.

You lie so much on this subject Ive given up calling you out on them all, because its every fucking post with you, every post you lie about something to add intent or to make it seem more sinister than it was. Its pathetic, and signs of someone that is either a compulsive liar or someone that cant deal with being wrong..

grab an umbrella

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2039
Re: zimmerman history, media must have forgot this part
« Reply #13 on: April 26, 2012, 10:19:19 AM »
Aside from Zimm's own self-serving words...

what other witness claims they saw trayvon doing the attacking?  Link please?

I thought the only witness testimonies was that they all looked out once the fight was already on the ground.  Nobody saw it start.  the only witnesses were Tm's GF on the phone, and zimm himself.   Is that 'what we know'?   Or is there another witness?

So you're admitting the only testimony we have comes from z? If that's the case then the way you described the attack was fabricated in your head. Nice try.

240 is Back

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 102396
  • Complete website for only $300- www.300website.com
Re: zimmerman history, media must have forgot this part
« Reply #14 on: April 26, 2012, 10:22:48 AM »
So you're admitting the only testimony we have comes from z? If that's the case then the way you described the attack was fabricated in your head. Nice try.

I'm saying there is no evidence of who attacked who, to the best of my knowledge.  if there is no GF testimony, it's just zimmerman's words.

Can we all agree the only evidence of who STARTED THE PHYSICAL FIGHT is zimmerman's words?   yes or no?

grab an umbrella

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2039
Re: zimmerman history, media must have forgot this part
« Reply #15 on: April 26, 2012, 10:25:03 AM »
I'm saying there is no evidence of who attacked who, to the best of my knowledge.  if there is no GF testimony, it's just zimmerman's words.

Can we all agree the only evidence of who STARTED THE PHYSICAL FIGHT is zimmerman's words?   yes or no?

So back to my original question. Why do you lie?

240 is Back

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 102396
  • Complete website for only $300- www.300website.com
Re: zimmerman history, media must have forgot this part
« Reply #16 on: April 26, 2012, 10:26:46 AM »
Pretty sure it came out that the GF was lieing.
He never told the dispatcher he would stay in his truck, and he didnt ask him anything that were aware of.
[/qutote]

I won't even argue the GF point.  I didn't know it was disproven.  LInk?

And his truck was parked at the stop sign at entrance of park right next to the mailboxes.

"OK, do you just want to meet with them at the mailboxes then? Zimmerman: Yeah, that's fine. 911 dispatcher: Alright, George, I'll let them know "



My point is that if the ONLY evidence of trayvon starting the fight is ZImm's words..... well, that ain't good for the defense.  Cause he'd have to get on the stand, and shit is over once he does that.

Shockwave

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 20807
  • Decepticons! Scramble!
Re: zimmerman history, media must have forgot this part
« Reply #17 on: April 26, 2012, 10:28:39 AM »
I'm saying there is no evidence of who attacked who, to the best of my knowledge.  if there is no GF testimony, it's just zimmerman's words.

Can we all agree the only evidence of who STARTED THE PHYSICAL FIGHT is zimmerman's words?   yes or no?
Yes. But since the burden of proof is on the prosecutor to prove he's lying, it doesnt matter. Cause she admitted to the judge she cant.

Also - other parts of his story can be proven right, and there is NO evidence to other parts of his story being lies. Therefore nothing they can point to and say "See, he's lying about the rest of his story, its probably he's lying about who started the fight as well."
 

As I said - the burden of proof lies on the prosecution to prove that he's lying, not on Zimmerman to prove he's telling the truth.


Shockwave

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 20807
  • Decepticons! Scramble!
Re: zimmerman history, media must have forgot this part
« Reply #18 on: April 26, 2012, 10:32:57 AM »
Pretty sure it came out that the GF was lieing.
He never told the dispatcher he would stay in his truck, and he didnt ask him anything that were aware of.

I won't even argue the GF point.  I didn't know it was disproven.  LInk?

And his truck was parked at the stop sign at entrance of park right next to the mailboxes.

"OK, do you just want to meet with them at the mailboxes then? Zimmerman: Yeah, that's fine. 911 dispatcher: Alright, George, I'll let them know "



My point is that if the ONLY evidence of trayvon starting the fight is ZImm's words..... well, that ain't good for the defense.  Cause he'd have to get on the stand, and shit is over once he does that.
Your point is still a lie - you said he agreed to stay in his truck, which he never said. Small but critical difference that makes it sound totally different, and makes your statement a lie. Just one of a thousand such examples.

As far as the evidence - there isnt any evidence of who started it other than Zimmermans words, but its a mute fucking point, because the prosecution has to prove hes lying.
They cant convict on a reasonable doubt that he may be lying - thats ass-backwards. They can only convict if they can prove he's lying. Which they cant.
They cant say - well he may be lying because itll cover his ass, cause that wont work.
And they CAN use Trayvon on top of him as evidence to support his words of being attacked. (Even though it doesnt prove who started it, they can argue that he was attacked and Trayvon pushed him on the ground, because usually the aggressor is the one that winds up on top).

240 is Back

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 102396
  • Complete website for only $300- www.300website.com
Re: zimmerman history, media must have forgot this part
« Reply #19 on: April 26, 2012, 10:33:24 AM »
Yes. But since the burden of proof is on the prosecutor to prove he's lying, it doesnt matter. Cause she admitted to the judge she cant.

Also - other parts of his story can be proven right, and there is NO evidence to other parts of his story being lies. Therefore nothing they can point to and say "See, he's lying about the rest of his story, its probably he's lying about who started the fight as well."
 

As I said - the burden of proof lies on the prosecution to prove that he's lying, not on Zimmerman to prove he's telling the truth.



okay, we are on the same page here.

The prosecutor can't prove what happened in those initial 5 seconds when TM met GZ and it got physical.  And that's a common thing when you have two dudes fighting and nobody knows who started it.   So that's why I said it's a coin flip to begin with.  Then the jury will have to look at the factors before the fight occured.  

Who was following who?
Who had a weapon?
Who lived on that street, who did not?
Were they both adults?
Did EITHER person have any reason to want to confront the other person?

Trayvon was unarmed, had a destination on that road, was a minor being followed by a person who mistook him for someone who stole a bike from him.
Zimm had an ax to grind, a gun in his pants, was the only adult here, and didn't live on that damn street. he was recorded following TM.

These factors, in my opinion, make that 50/50 jury coin flip look a lot different.

grab an umbrella

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2039
Re: zimmerman history, media must have forgot this part
« Reply #20 on: April 26, 2012, 10:40:01 AM »
okay, we are on the same page here.

The prosecutor can't prove what happened in those initial 5 seconds when TM met GZ and it got physical.  And that's a common thing when you have two dudes fighting and nobody knows who started it.   So that's why I said it's a coin flip to begin with.  Then the jury will have to look at the factors before the fight occured.  

Who was following who?
Who had a weapon?
Who lived on that street, who did not?
Were they both adults?
Did EITHER person have any reason to want to confront the other person?

Trayvon was unarmed, had a destination on that road, was a minor being followed by a person who mistook him for someone who stole a bike from him.
Zimm had an ax to grind, a gun in his pants, was the only adult here, and didn't live on that damn street. he was recorded following TM.

These factors, in my opinion, make that 50/50 jury coin flip look a lot different.


You're doing it again. If the prosecution can't disprove what z said then the case won't go any father. Nothing you said after that initial statement matters.

240 is Back

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 102396
  • Complete website for only $300- www.300website.com
Re: zimmerman history, media must have forgot this part
« Reply #21 on: April 26, 2012, 10:45:26 AM »

You're doing it again. If the prosecution can't disprove what z said then the case won't go any father. Nothing you said after that initial statement matters.

I'm sure there are times in history when the prosecution can't disprove a guy's statement.

but if he shows a lack of credibility...
if there's a lot of evidence to the contrary leading up to the event...
if he changes his story afterwards...

he is still found guilty.  i dunno, maybe i'm wrong.  but i don't think this is a slam dunk for either side.  he did charge armed into a situation against a minor he mistakenly thought was a burglar.   if i'm a juror, i don't automatically believe him word.   he also sounded fishy on the 911 call "he looks like he's on drugs or something".... to me, that isn't a credible statement.  That's a "get here faster, police!" statement.  boom, that lessens his credibility when he makes statement later about the shooting.

maybe i'm wrong.  but to me, zimm ain't the most credible guy.  drama queen exaggerator.

Soul Crusher

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 39441
  • Doesnt lie about lifting.
Re: zimmerman history, media must have forgot this part
« Reply #22 on: April 26, 2012, 10:52:53 AM »
240 - just stop.   Your lies, distortions, and deceit on this issue have been nothing less than embarrassing.   

Jack T. Cross

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 4098
  • Using Surveillance for Political Subversion(?)
Re: zimmerman history, media must have forgot this part
« Reply #23 on: April 26, 2012, 11:42:46 AM »
Then the jury will have to look at the factors before the fight occured.  

Who was following who?
Who had a weapon?
Who lived on that street, who did not?
Were they both adults?
Did EITHER person have any reason to want to confront the other person?


In the end, everything will be focused upon the act of following.

240 is Back

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 102396
  • Complete website for only $300- www.300website.com
Re: zimmerman history, media must have forgot this part
« Reply #24 on: April 26, 2012, 01:59:45 PM »
In the end, everything will be focused upon the act of following.


think so?   grownup following kid 2 blocks in the dark with a gun.  all while calling him an asshole.