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Author Topic: Coming off Gear HELP  (Read 2067 times)
stayhungry
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« on: April 30, 2012, 04:41:12 AM »

Hi

K So I just came off a pre-contest and bulk cycle.  I started my cycle in April of 2011 and did not cycle off (dumb yes) and now have my HCG, Clomid, Novaldex coming this week for my PCT.

I dont know when I should be starting my PCT and how to come off my Anavar, Clen, T3, and Whinstrol properly.

This was my cycle from April 2011 till March 2012

Test Cyp- 600mg
Deca- 300mg

In March (precontest) 2012 which is what I am running now and STOPPED half a week ago (April 25th)

Test Enth- 625mg
Tren- 300mg
Deca- Stopped 1 week ago--was 150mg

Whinstrol- 75mg ED
Anavar- 4 tabs ED
T3- 30mg ED
Clen- 2 tabs 2 days on 1 day off.  2 weeks on 2 weeks off

So I stopped EVERYTHING but the T3 which I am slowly cycling down from

SO do I STOP everything now?  I was going to start my HCG PCT this week Thursday May 4th or so.

Can someone please help me with how to cycle off everything for my PCT?  I have my PCT protocol already but need to know if it is a good idea to stop everything but the T3 right now and start into PCT this week

Any and all help is GREATLY appreciated

Thank you!!
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« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2012, 10:18:42 AM »

i know the bro scientists wont agree,, but im a firm believer in tapering, drop the lot and lower your test e each week, wait 10 to 14 days and start your hcg, nolva etc

i just believe it less of a shock to the body doing it this way, but thats just me... 
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« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2012, 11:15:35 AM »

Make sure you keep training and eating a good amount of food. Your body won't recover as well if you eat like a bird and really the only way to hold onto a decent amount of size is if you let the bf level go up a bit.
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« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2012, 11:30:07 AM »

Pct is an art. There is a learning curve for pct just as there is running propper cycles. Pct definitely works.
i believe in going off cold turkey.

i have yet to see anyone having a god pct result.

if you were on gear for long enough time, the body will take its time to recover, sometimes years till full recovery.

and no pct gonna change that.

i know people who did all the pct after cycles and had the test levels of eunuchs even a year after.

me myself ive tried pct before, and it didnt work for me.maybe i havent figured it out properly, but then, nobody i know has.







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« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2012, 11:32:52 AM »

i believe in going off cold turkey.

i have yet to see anyone having a god pct result.

if you were on gear for long enough time, the body will take its time to recover, sometimes years till full recovery.

and no pct gonna change that.

i know people who did all the pct after cycles and had the test levels of eunuchs even a year after.

me myself ive tried pct before, and it didnt work for me.maybe i havent figured it out properly, but then, nobody i know has.








I think a lot of guys who don't like PCT plans normally don't because they're expecting something out of them that's not possible...more than likely, they're expecting the wrong things.

Yes, there's a chance the body will recover all on its own, but if you've been on gear for a very long time, especially with periods of harsh amounts it can become very difficult to impossible to recover your levels in some cases. Sure, there's no PCT plan on earth that will bring you to a full recovery, but that's not the point of a PCT plan.

The point in a PCT plan is twofold; to cut down recovery time and provide enough testosterone for normal function. If you have a good PCT plan, you'll stimulate natural production and while your levels won't be stable at the high end they were before your cycle you will have enough for a healthy body while your levels continue to naturally rise over the next several months.

Now, does it always help? Of course not, if you severely damaged your HPTA while on cycle your levels might not ever recover...there are probably more guys in this boat than realize it.

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Arnold jr
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« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2012, 01:23:11 PM »

i have a friend whos planning to come off soon, what do you suggest?

hes been on some 500mg test for half a year or so.

serious question.

i have kinda given up on pct out of frustration tbh, but ill still consider suggestions.

as for what people expect, yes, its unrealistic, they think they be back to normal after a week,haha Grin

i appreciate any positive effect.

i just got my test results today, after 4 months off, they are just ok, but very very low.i posted about it on my bloodwork thread. Lips sealed

I'd have him drop his test down to 200mg/wk for 3-4wks and then come off. If it's a small ester base test, I'd start HCG 2-3 days after that, if it's a large ester base I'd start HCG 10 days after the last injection.

In either case, I'd go with 10 straight days of HCG at 1,000iu/ed....500iu might be enough, but I'd go with 1,000. After that, I'd start Nolvadex or Clomid...just pick one.

Nolvadex:
WK 1: 40mg/ed
WK 2: 40mg/ed
WK 3: 20mg/ed
WK 4: 20mg/ed
WK 5: 10mg/ed
WK 6: 10mg/ed

Clomid
WK 1: 150mg/ed
WK 2: 150mg/ed
WK 3: 100mg/ed
WK 4: 100mg/ed
WK 5: 50mg/ed
WK 6: 50mg/ed

Anyway, I'd only do this if he's going to be off for three plus months after this PCT plan, otherwise it's pointless as he'll just be suppressing what he just stimulated and that's too much stress on the body.
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« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2012, 02:00:37 PM »

I have tapered off with good results,and I have just stopped cold turkey.......took a while to get back to normal,but no real big deal.

I never do insane amounts for very long times as I prefer to build up in dosage,stay at a peak dosage for a few weeks,then lower it back down.........usually pre-contest.

I have never done any PCT................doing OK so far.
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« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2012, 02:12:52 PM »

Use some dostinex along with the hcg and clomid. Half a pill twice a week. Your dick will thank you.
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Arnold jr
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« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2012, 03:19:26 PM »

ah, so youd agree that if he plans to go back after couple months anyway, then he can save himself the pct hassle, right?

ill ask him, if hes going off for longer, ill suggest the above, thanks.

Correct, there's no point if you're going to only be off-cycle for a short period of time...this makes a PCT counterproductive.

I have tapered off with good results,and I have just stopped cold turkey.......took a while to get back to normal,but no real big deal.

I never do insane amounts for very long times as I prefer to build up in dosage,stay at a peak dosage for a few weeks,then lower it back down.........usually pre-contest.

I have never done any PCT................doing OK so far.

I've heard a lot of guys say this in-regards to never implementing a PCT plan. However, while you may indeed be fine, what if you could do better? Why wouldn't you want to?

That said, I just want to reiterate when I talk about PCT I'm referring to long off periods. If you're on and off in more of a constant fashion then that changes things IMO. 
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« Reply #9 on: May 01, 2012, 03:33:10 AM »

I am telling you guys once you get done with your HCG,nolva and clomid. try using DHEA for a few months. very underestimated cheap OTC supplement run it with some high grade trib
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« Reply #10 on: May 01, 2012, 05:03:17 AM »

Thanks for the replies bros!

Yes I am going off till my Acne is completely gone before going on again.  A few months is planned to go off and then back on at around:

600mg test
300mg Deca OR Tren- undecided but I got time

I might start IGF during my off time as well- not decided yet

THis is what my PCT will look like starting this week:

HCG

Week one- 500iu's first 5 days then 250iu's everyday till bottle is finished

Novaldex-40-60mg's Everyday
Clomid- 100mg everyday

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stayhungry
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« Reply #11 on: May 01, 2012, 05:04:01 AM »

I have a show in June 2013...FYI
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« Reply #12 on: May 01, 2012, 06:18:06 AM »

I am telling you guys once you get done with your HCG,nolva and clomid. try using DHEA for a few months. very underestimated cheap OTC supplement run it with some high grade trib

I remember a guy named Captain Equipoise who used to post here got me into using Trib during recovery.  It made a slight difference, but any improvement is definitely worth it.

PCT does help, but i still believe in tapering off gear. These days i might blast HCG for 1 week and then use 50-100mg Clomid for a few weeks and then just let my body do its thing.

Good luck stay hungry.


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falco
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« Reply #13 on: May 01, 2012, 12:03:23 PM »

well, if its only about the dick, then cialis and viagra will do.

btw, how does pct affect the bloodwork parameters?

It's not about the erections only off course. High prolactin levels inibits somewhat test production.
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« Reply #14 on: May 01, 2012, 04:06:19 PM »

I am doing a long (2nd) cycle myself with low to moderate dosages. Been on cycle since Aug 2011 switching compounds every few months with a base of Test enan or a mixture of multi-ester test.

Some pointers that i learned along the way.

1] As a few colleagues note above definitely taper off. It makes the recovery less cumbersome. For the hard compounds i even taper up i.e. Tren.

2] Do a proper PCT as you have already planned unless you are off for a very short of time.

3] Do the var/win till 3 days before PCT. One thing i found in 1st cycle doing PCT for 3 weeks is too short. Go longer as Arnold advises. Once i stopped PCT with nolvadex only 1st cycle, it took me at least a 3-4 weeks before things went back to normal. Bloodwork was perfect about 8 weeks after being off.

4] As WW notes Tribulus and Dhea helps. Also look into the animal pak, it's a good mix for detoxifying and recovery.

5] Taper off T3. Expect a minimum of 6 week for full recovery. I myself use it and immediately jump on prescribed T4.

6] Clen you can continue post cycle. Use ketofinen or Benadryl to upgrade receptors.
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« Reply #15 on: May 01, 2012, 07:49:18 PM »

Could be a dumb question but running clen with PCT a very bad idea?  Low doses
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« Reply #16 on: May 02, 2012, 12:26:30 AM »

Could be a dumb question but running clen with PCT a very bad idea?  Low doses

The idea behind Clen use during PCT is that it will protect your gains made on cycle because it carries an anabolic nature and that it will help control possible fat-gain that can come during this period.

As for the anabolic nature of Clen, when it first hit the market it was assumed it would be an extremely anabolic compound. This assumption was based on several studies using rats. However, once applied to human beings it was found it did not have this effect. Yes, there was some mild anabolic activity due to the Clen in some cases, but we're talking extremely mild to none at all. In all honesty, high fat foods will promote more anabolic activity than Clen...that's not a sarcastic comment.

As for fat gain prevention, sure, it can help, but controlling your diet will do more for you here.
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« Reply #17 on: May 02, 2012, 12:53:03 AM »

Arnold and local hero have some good pct's I followed last time...
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stayhungry
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« Reply #18 on: May 02, 2012, 02:32:47 AM »

The idea behind Clen use during PCT is that it will protect your gains made on cycle because it carries an anabolic nature and that it will help control possible fat-gain that can come during this period.

As for the anabolic nature of Clen, when it first hit the market it was assumed it would be an extremely anabolic compound. This assumption was based on several studies using rats. However, once applied to human beings it was found it did not have this effect. Yes, there was some mild anabolic activity due to the Clen in some cases, but we're talking extremely mild to none at all. In all honesty, high fat foods will promote more anabolic activity than Clen...that's not a sarcastic comment.

As for fat gain prevention, sure, it can help, but controlling your diet will do more for you here.
.

Awesome thank you!  Recommend a dose and timeline/cycle with clen?  2 weeks on 2 weeks off?  Or 2 days on 1 day off?
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stayhungry
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« Reply #19 on: May 02, 2012, 07:53:15 AM »

Guys- my last shot was supposed to be last sunday but I dropped everything BUT T3. I start hcg etc Thursday or friday. Question is do I do my one last shot day before the pct or day after pct or just do pct??  I'm scared now that I did this wrong
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« Reply #20 on: May 02, 2012, 10:12:55 AM »

What if you only have Nolva or Clomid and no HCG. Is this a big problem?
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« Reply #21 on: May 02, 2012, 10:23:24 AM »

The idea behind Clen use during PCT is that it will protect your gains made on cycle because it carries an anabolic nature and that it will help control possible fat-gain that can come during this period.

As for the anabolic nature of Clen, when it first hit the market it was assumed it would be an extremely anabolic compound. This assumption was based on several studies using rats. However, once applied to human beings it was found it did not have this effect. Yes, there was some mild anabolic activity due to the Clen in some cases, but we're talking extremely mild to none at all. In all honesty, high fat foods will promote more anabolic activity than Clen...that's not a sarcastic comment.

As for fat gain prevention, sure, it can help, but controlling your diet will do more for you here.

how anabolic is ECA?
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« Reply #22 on: May 02, 2012, 12:04:01 PM »

.

Awesome thank you!  Recommend a dose and timeline/cycle with clen?  2 weeks on 2 weeks off?  Or 2 days on 1 day off?

I prefer non-stop Clen use when it's being used. Starting with a low dose and increasing it 20mcg every 2-3wks as needed.
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« Reply #23 on: May 02, 2012, 04:02:47 PM »

What if you only have Nolva or Clomid and no HCG. Is this a big problem?

If that's all you have, that is better than having nothing at all to start PCT. In the face of Clomid, many find HCG unnecessary.

Furthermore, unless a hard cycle on multiple compounds, you can get away with Nolva/Clomid combo.
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