Author: What the Bible really says about homosexuality

[Mr. Magoo]

What's the difference between "homosexuality" and "homosexual sex"? 

so you think all virgins are neither heterosexuals nor homosexuals?

 

Or take it on the other end of the spectrum with older men and women who no longer have sex

[Dos Equis]

You said it's "clearly" is homosexuality.  that guys article is arguing that's its unclear.

I am asking you to show me how "strange flesh" clearly means homosexuality.  I mean one would think, for a 11-13 year old boy, strange flesh would be a woman, and familiar flesh would be a man.  So, that's just another angle.  All i am doing here is asking you to show me how it clearly means homosexuality.

And, just as coincidence, i am leaving right now to go to SFO to pick up someone who is flying in  

Yes, it's clear.  If you're asking me to show you whether there was rampant homosexuality in Sodom and Gomorah, I'll have to do some homework.  I just got off the plane myself, so it might take me a little while.     But there isn't any legitimate dispute about what was going on in those cities.

The author's commentary didn't even mention the passage in Jude, which completely undercuts his credibility IMO. 

[Dos Equis]

so you think all virgins are neither heterosexuals nor homosexuals?

 

Or take it on the other end of the spectrum with older men and women who no longer have sex

?  You are trying to draw a distinction between homosexuality and homosexual sex.  I'm asking you what you believe the difference is. 

[OzmO]

Yes, it's clear.  If you're asking me to show you whether there was rampant homosexuality in Sodom and Gomorah, I'll have to do some homework.  I just got off the plane myself, so it might take me a little while.     But there isn't any legitimate dispute about what was going on in those cities.

The author's commentary didn't even mention the passage in Jude, which completely undercuts his credibility IMO. 

Lots of things were going on in those cities, just like lots of things go on in every city. But so far, you or anyone else hasn't been able to point out where it directly stated that Homosexuality is a sin.  Now, it has been described as a vile affliction, but NOT a sin.

So please, show me where its clear:  Homosexuality is a sin.  Show me God saying it is a sin.  Haven't seen it yet.  Neither has McWay been able to show with out heavy interpretation.   

What i have seen is passages that can be taken for different meanings such as "strange flesh" and "vile affections"

If you guys can pony up a verse that directly says it, it would be great. 

[Dos Equis]

Lots of things were going on in those cities, just like lots of things go on in every city. But so far, you or anyone else hasn't been able to point out where it directly stated that Homosexuality is a sin.  Now, it has been described as a vile affliction, but NOT a sin.

So please, show me where its clear:  Homosexuality is a sin.  Show me God saying it is a sin.  Haven't seen it yet.  Neither has McWay been able to show with out heavy interpretation.   

What i have seen is passages that can be taken for different meanings such as "strange flesh" and "vile affections"

If you guys can pony up a verse that directly says it, it would be great. 

So you think something could be described in the Bible as a "vile affection," but not be sinful? 

In terms of verses that describe homosexuality as a sin, there are plenty.  Here is one:

1 Corinthians 6:9-10
New King James Version (NKJV)
9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals,[a] nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians%206:9-10&version=NKJV

[Necrosis]

?  You are trying to draw a distinction between homosexuality and homosexual sex.  I'm asking you what you believe the difference is. 

one is copulatory acts that are performed to induce pleasure in homo's, the other is a state which indicates deep connection and reverence for another. With respect to homo's it has to have a component of attraction, otherwise a man loving his son is gay. Still sex and love are not tied at all, nor is attraction and orientation.

[OzmO]

So you think something could be described in the Bible as a "vile affection," but not be sinful?  

In terms of verses that describe homosexuality as a sin, there are plenty.  Here is one:

1 Corinthians 6:9-10
New King James Version (NKJV)
9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals,[a] nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians%206:9-10&version=NKJV

Still unclear and nor direct, although more direct i suppose. (not after actual research)

You forgot to post the footnote in your link:

Footnotes:

    1 Corinthians 6:9 That is, catamites

What 's a Catamite?  a boy who has a sexual relationship with a man.

cat·a·mite
   [kat-uh-mahyt] Show IPA
noun:  a boy or youth who is in a sexual relationship with a man.  

Which is different than 2 men having a sexual relationship.  And in this verse, the BOY is unrighteous not the man.  Interesting lol.

Let's look at the KVJ version:

9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

ef·fem·i·nate
   [adj. ih-fem-uh-nit; v. ih-fem-uh-neyt] Show IPA adjective, verb, ef·fem·i·nat·ed, ef·fem·i·nat·ing.
adjective
1.
(of a man or boy) having traits, tastes, habits, etc., traditionally considered feminine, as softness or delicacy.

Interesting isn't it?  Looks like intellectual dishonesty here among interpretors

Clearly they are talking about boys who act like girls not going to heaven.

They are NOT clearly talking about homosexuals and NOT clearly saying homosexuality is a sin.

I am sure there is a verse in the Bible that clearly states homosexuality is a sin, isn't there?

[loco]

The words of Jesus Christ:

Matthew 19:4-5
4 “Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’
5 and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’?

[OzmO]

The words of Jesus Christ:

Matthew 19:4-5
4 “Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’
5 and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’?

Maybe you can help loco. 

Is there anything in the Bible that directly says Homosexuality is a sin?

What you put up here isn't.

the author of the article/book is making a case that there is not.  Perhaps you can shed some light?

[loco]

Maybe you can help loco.  

Is there anything in the Bible that directly says Homosexuality is a sin?

What you put up here isn't.

the author of the article/book is making a case that there is not.  Perhaps you can shed some light?

What I put up there certainly says Jesus ain't okay with gay marriage.    

I don't have time to read the article, but here you go:

Leviticus 18:22
Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable.

Romans 1:26-27
26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones.
27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

[OzmO]

What I put up there certainly says Jesus ain't okay with gay marriage.     

I don't have time to read the article, but here you go:

Leviticus 18:22
“‘Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable.

Romans 1:26-27
26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones.
27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

Good stuff, still doesn't directly say homosexuality is a sin.  Its does say it's detestable, shameful and unnatural.  If it was direct it would have said:  due penalty for their SIN.

Most direct so far though.

[loco]

Good stuff, still doesn't directly say homosexuality is a sin.  Its does say it's detestable, shameful and unnatural.  If it was direct it would have said:  due penalty for their SIN.

Most direct so far though.

What?  God says it is detestable, shameful and unnatural, and you say it is not sin?  What is sin then?

[MCWAY]

It's as direct as you can get. Yet, some folk here simply don't want to acknowledge the obvious. They're looking to parse words and use semantics.

As Beach Bum said, there may be some cloudy areas in the Bible. But, homosexuality ain't one of them.

Sex outside of marriage: sinful

Components of marriage: MALE and FEMALE

It's as plain and simple as that. Directly, indirectly, obtusely, acutely, oblong, not matter what angle you use, NOWHERE DOES SCRIPTURE describe homosexuality (or anything remotely resembling what we call homosexuality) as anything but sinful, period.

[OzmO]

What?  God says it is detestable, shameful and unnatural, and you say it is not sin?  What is sin then?

Is everything that is detestable, shameful and unnatural a sin?

Look I agree the God described in the Bible obviously doesn't like homosexuality.  But it's not direct and clear as thou shall not steal.  And it's never directly identified as a sin. 

[Dos Equis]

one is copulatory acts that are performed to induce pleasure in homo's, the other is a state which indicates deep connection and reverence for another. With respect to homo's it has to have a component of attraction, otherwise a man loving his son is gay. Still sex and love are not tied at all, nor is attraction and orientation.

I disagree.  (Here's the part where you get mad. . . .  Kidding.)  Homosexuals define themselves based on who they have sex with.  In the case of men, it's a man having sex with another man.  In reality, we're not talking about simple feelings.  I doubt there are a significant number of celibate homosexuals.  Some Catholic priests maybe? 

[loco]

Is everything that is detestable, shameful and unnatural a sin?

Look I agree the God described in the Bible obviously doesn't like homosexuality.  But it's not direct and clear as thou shall not steal.  And it's never directly identified as a sin.  

Yes, it is a sin, just like "thou shall not steal"


Leviticus 18:22
King James Version (KJV)

"Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination."



Is that direct enough?    

[OzmO]

Yes, it is a sin, just like "thou shall not steal"


Leviticus 18:22
King James Version (KJV)

"Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination."

Is that direct enough?    

It only took a half dozen posts   

But it is still murky:

So lying with womankind is also an abomination?

Also, on the unnatural, detestable, and shameful as being a sin, no.  Shameful for being last in a race is that a sin?  Detestable interior decoration is that a sin?  Unnatural modifications to one's body are those sins?

Again, don't get me wrong, i get the God in the bible hates gay people, and if they continue to be gay they should burn in hell.  I get it, lol.

[loco]

Leviticus 18:22
King James Version (KJV)

"Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination."

But it is still murky:

LOL     

[OzmO]

LOL     

I explained why.

Let's change the words:

thou shalt not lie with X, as with Y, it is abomination.

in other words let's say i am your employer and i am talking to you about your job:

Do sleep on the job, as with doing drugs, it is a fire-able offense.

so again:

STILL MURKY.   

[loco]

I explained why.

Let's change the words:

thou shalt not lie with X, as with Y, it is abomination.

in other words let's say i am your employer and i am talking to you about your job:

Do sleep on the job, as with doing drugs, it is a fire-able offense.

so again:

STILL MURKY.   

LOL...what are you arguing about again?   

[OzmO]

LOL...what are you arguing about again?   

 Ok I will just take that as you can not show homosexuality clearly in the bible as a sin unless you use heavy interpretation or murky english.  Which par for the course with most of the book.

[B_B_C]

why would God be so upset at what people do with their genital organs?
 
She has far more interesting things to consider

and why are so many of Gods children obsessed with what other people do with their sex lives. Are they not happy with their own?

[Dos Equis]

Ok I will just take that as you can not show homosexuality clearly in the bible as a sin unless you use heavy interpretation or murky english.  Which par for the course with most of the book.

It's not murky or unclear at all.  But when people want to find an issue with language, even when it's plain as day, they will.  You really have to turn the common sense part of your brain off to conclude the Bible doesn't condemn homosexuality. 

Now if you wanted to take issue with what the Bible says about alcohol, then there is at least something to debate.  This one is a no brainer. 

[Dos Equis]

Also, I don't think God hates homosexuals and the Bible doesn't say that.  I think he looks at homosexuals like he does anyone else:  no better, no worse. 

[Mr. Magoo]

?  You are trying to draw a distinction between homosexuality and homosexual sex.  I'm asking you what you believe the difference is. 

I think homosexuality can include the love and compassion that one feels for their significant other. The close companionship that can come only through love. The phrase "life partner" comes to mind here. I'm also thinking of the first homosexual couple who got married in.....new york city I think. The two women who were in their late 80s. Let's take them for our example. Let's say that sex is no longer on their minds (they've matured past the stepping stone of sex to what sex leads to, which is the closest of relationships). They have that feeling towards a member of their own sex, so I would say they are homosexuals.

Let's keep the discussion (at least in your or any other responses towards me) limited to these two women in their late 80s. They don't experience lust anymore. They don't have sex (in our scenario). They just feel the closeness that only deep love can bring. My point is that nothing in the bible says THAT is wrong. In order to prove that the two late 80 year olds are living in sin, you would have to say something like "well, they used to have sex" or "they used to lust" which would be avoiding my point.