V6 Mustangs and Camaros

[oldtimer1]

Some laugh at American engineering but I will put our tanks, Navy ships, and just military tech against anything German or Italian made. Our computer tech is top of the world too. My neighbor can't keep his BMW out of the shop.  I think the Corvette looks better than a Lambo or Ferrari.

[Moen]

There is no reason to laugh at American engineering, you are top of the world in a lot of fields. Sports-/Supercars just isn't one of them.

Put that Corvette ZR1 on a race track against Italian or Japanese cars with equal HP and it will be obvious why they are not as good.

[MONSTER_TRICEPS]

Lol, I love these European automaker nutthuggers.  As if the engineering in Italy or Germany is somehow magically better than what is engineered in the United States, Japan or Korea for that matter.  Different vehicles for different purposes, sold in different markets.  Hematocritter nailed it, like each car for the qualities that make it different and interesting. Cars are a lot like whores in this regard.

Those Grand Nationals were decades ahead of their time.

Yeah, as if dual overhead cams are any better than a good old rocker arm, pushrod operated valvetrain. 


 

[GigantorX]

First off, I'm pretty certain the Mustangs and Camaro's have always been offered with a V6 as a base engine since their introductions. So it isn't like these have been V8 only cars since they debuted so many years ago.

Second, the V6's in these pony cars are more powerful, more efficient etc than the V8's of old, esp. with the 6Spd auto's. I get what the TC is saying, but V6's have always been in these cars.

Anyways.

Mustang V6 - 305HP and 280lb-ft of torque.

Camaro V6 - 323HP and around 275lb-ft of torque.

2002 Camaro SS - 325HP and 350lb-ft of torque.

Those are impressive V6's, nothing to laugh off that is for sure. And yes, I understand that the torque is probably more available at all RPMs compared to a V6 but either way, those V6's  are pretty impressive.

[Shockwave]

The new Mustang, Camaro, and Chrysler Pentastar v6's are all 300+ hp(though the torque curve is less than impressive).

Nowadays, a lot of the new muscle cars and the Corvette are easily in the 800+ HP range......able to pull this off with nowhere near the money required to purchase a high-end European import...and still maintain respectable driveability.  People who buy cars like Ferraris, Lambos, etc...buy them for their exclusiveness, uniqueness, and the fact that they have a LOT of money to throw away.  If you want to go fast on a relative budget, you would never, ever consider any product out of Europe.

This.
 

[gmflex]

Exactly

Looks exactly like my car.. except mine aint zr1.. i have c6 corvette / jetstream blue

[Shockwave]

Yeah, as if dual overhead cams are any better than a good old rocker arm, pushrod operated valvetrain.  


 

NHRA Pro-stock disagree's with you.
3hp/ci (500ci, 1500hp) Naturally Aspirated. Pushrod V8.
Ill put money that you cannot find anything short of Formula 1 (which isnt even in the same reality) making those numbers without a power adder.

[gmflex]

There is no reason to laugh at American engineering, you are top of the world in a lot of fields. Sports-/Supercars just isn't one of them.

Put that Corvette ZR1 on a race track against Italian or Japanese cars with equal HP and it will be obvious why they are not as good.

The vette makes them wet

[Shockwave]

The vette makes them wet

Pretty sure some of the Vette's have been beating the Euro's ass at the 'ring lately.
Not to throw any more gas on the fire.

[GigantorX]

Yeah, as if dual overhead cams are any better than a good old rocker arm, pushrod operated valvetrain. 


 

As long as the mission is accomplished, who really cares what valve-train is being used. OHV's are still relevant and GM's new GenV small block will be smaller, lighter, more efficient and include direct injection. The valve train pissing contest is silly.

[mass243]

Isn't it little embarrassing (maybe even gay) to drive that kind of car with V6  


Same as if someone would get a nuke submarine and roll in it by paddling

[Shockwave]

Isn't it little embarrassing (maybe even gay) to drive that kind of car with V6  


Same as if someone would get a nuke submarine and roll in it by paddling

Or a Nimitz carrier with the reactor replaced by diesel engines.

[GigantorX]

Or a Nimitz carrier with the reactor replaced by diesel engines.

2013 Mustang V6

0-60 in 5.3 sec.

1/4 Mile in 13 sec.
----------------------------------------
2005 Corvette

0-60 in 4.4 sec

1/4 in 12.5 sec.


Now, with speed tests there are many variables, I know this, from the driver skill, road quality etc. But come on, that isn't too shabby for a V6 powered sports coupe that stickers at around 25k decently optioned.

[Shockwave]

2013 Mustang V6

0-60 in 5.3 sec.

1/4 Mile in 13 sec.
----------------------------------------
2005 Corvette

0-60 in 4.4 sec

1/4 in 12.5 sec.


Now, with speed tests there are many variables, I know this, from the driver skill, road quality etc. But come on, that isn't too shabby for a V6 powered sports coupe that stickers at around 25k decently optioned.

You'll never see me argue that the V6's arent amazing for what they are, but I personally feel people are morons for paying nearly the same price and getting the small engine, fuck most of the Gen III/IV small blocks get almost the same gas mileage as the eff'ing V6's.

IMHO - the difference in gas mileage isnt enough to warrant the smaller, less buildable motors.
But for me, the potential for to build the motor is much more important that getting a couple miles/gal more.

Gen III/IV small blocks have so much more potential than the V6, its rediculous.
Dont get me wrong, the V6 has their places, for the weak, the women, and the children.

[GigantorX]

You'll never see me argue that the V6's arent amazing for what they are, but I personally feel people are morons for paying nearly the same price and getting the small engine, fuck most of the Gen III/IV small blocks get almost the same gas mileage as the eff'ing V6's.

IMHO - the difference in gas mileage isnt enough to warrant the smaller, less buildable motors.
But for me, the potential for to build the motor is much more important that getting a couple miles/gal more.

Gen III/IV small blocks have so much more potential than the V6, its rediculous.
Dont get me wrong, the V6 has their places, for the weak, the women, and the children.

HA! I know, I wouldn't buy one either unless it came with a track pack and forced injection of somekind. Ford would do well to put a 3.5 and the 2.0 Ecoboost engines in the Mustang. The car is light enough, out the track pack on it and you have a very capable, very mod friendly set up with a lot of headroom.

Either way, that 5.0 on the 'Stang is fuckin' sweet. All that power w/ no DI either is impressive.

Personally I'm def. waiting to see the GenV smallblock from GM. The rumors are stating it to be more compact, more powerful, DI, VVT, more efficient, smoother etc compared to the GenIV, all coming from a bit smaller displacement. I'm pumped.

[Shockwave]

HA! I know, I wouldn't buy one either unless it came with a track pack and forced injection of somekind. Ford would do well to put a 3.5 and the 2.0 Ecoboost engines in the Mustang. The car is light enough, out the track pack on it and you have a very capable, very mod friendly set up with a lot of headroom.

Either way, that 5.0 on the 'Stang is fuckin' sweet. All that power w/ no DI either is impressive.

Personally I'm def. waiting to see the GenV smallblock from GM. The rumors are stating it to be more compact, more powerful, DI, VVT, more efficient, smoother etc compared to the GenIV, all coming from a bit smaller displacement. I'm pumped.

Really? Havent really been paying attention to what GM's next motor is going to be. Any links?
DI kinda makes me wonder, as I have zero experience with it, and no race motors I know of run DI.

[JBGRAY]

Yes, the new 5.0 from Ford is sweet...just tired of the damn Fords requiring a $6.5k+ power adder just to get them moving at a decent clip...their n/a motors are absolute garbage in comparison with the rest.

Gen III's (LS1 for chrissakes) are hitting 10s on just a cam, bolt-ons(headers, intake, exhaust), some transmission work, weight reduction, and some suspension mods.  If you do the work and tuning yourself, you can do this on a budget of around 3 grand or so.  Not to mention 4th Gen fbodies can be easily had for less than 9 grand or so....C5s and 04 GTOs can be found for around 13 grand if you can afford a little more.

I love the Hemi stuff, but is twice as expensive to modify as Ford and GM, and with far less options.  The new 392 SRT8s really move out, though.

[Shockwave]

Yes, the new 5.0 from Ford is sweet...just tired of the damn Fords requiring a $6.5k+ power adder just to get them moving at a decent clip...their n/a motors are absolute garbage in comparison with the rest.

Gen III's (LS1 for chrissakes) are hitting 10s on just a cam, bolt-ons(headers, intake, exhaust), some transmission work, weight reduction, and some suspension mods.  If you do the work and tuning yourself, you can do this on a budget of around 3 grand or so.  Not to mention 4th Gen fbodies can be easily had for less than 9 grand or so....C5s and 04 GTOs can be found for around 13 grand if you can afford a little more.

I love the Hemi stuff, but is twice as expensive to modify as Ford and GM, and with far less options.  The new 392 SRT8s really move out, though.

I bought a 4th gen V6 'Bird for less than a grand, and promptly yanked the V6, and installed an LS and T56 and wired the computer in for less than 4grand total.
This was the EXACT car I wanted as well, black 98 Firebird with no options, hardtop. I'm building an L92/LS3 headed 6.0 thats going to replace the Ls1 in the car. Hopefully going to make 600+ @ the flywheel with less than 3 grand in parts, N/A.

[GigantorX]

Yes, the new 5.0 from Ford is sweet...just tired of the damn Fords requiring a $6.5k+ power adder just to get them moving at a decent clip...their n/a motors are absolute garbage in comparison with the rest.

Gen III's (LS1 for chrissakes) are hitting 10s on just a cam, bolt-ons(headers, intake, exhaust), some transmission work, weight reduction, and some suspension mods.  If you do the work and tuning yourself, you can do this on a budget of around 3 grand or so.  Not to mention 4th Gen fbodies can be easily had for less than 9 grand or so....C5s and 04 GTOs can be found for around 13 grand if you can afford a little more.

I love the Hemi stuff, but is twice as expensive to modify as Ford and GM, and with far less options.  The new 392 SRT8s really move out, though.

That is more than a bit of work to be done.

The 4.6DOHC, bone stock, was a dog, for sure. The 5.0L is a different beast all-together. But I agree, nothing beats the GM small block for mod-ability, flexibility and ease of use.

[JBGRAY]

Then again, the 3800 Series II and III v6 found in the f-bodies, Monte Carlos, Buicks, Impalas, and Grand Prix are not exactly dogs themselves...the motors were extremely tough and I believe the fastest one in the world was on a FWD Impala that was running mid-8s in the quarter. 

[OTHstrong]

You people have no class. All you think about is how much you can get for the least mount of money. Works great for toilet paper, not for a car.

What the hell are you talking about?....I need the best to wipe my ass thank you

[oldtimer1]

NHRA Pro-stock disagree's with you.
3hp/ci (500ci, 1500hp) Naturally Aspirated. Pushrod V8.
Ill put money that you cannot find anything short of Formula 1 (which isnt even in the same reality) making those numbers without a power adder.

What would be the top speed with the right gearing and a track longer than a quarter mile with a NHRA pro stock?  It would be insane.

[Shockwave]

What would be the top speed with the right gearing and a track longer than a quarter mile with a NHRA pro stock?  It would be insane.

Im not sure, probably similar to some of the cars that run events like the Texas Mile with that amount of power. Many break the 200mph barrier in the Mile.

[Palpatine Q]

You people have no class. All you think about is how much you can get for the least mount of money. Works great for toilet paper, not for a car.

I'm sure you're posting from your Bugatti Veyron 

But the rest of us peasants can appreciate a great car like the vette

[Moen]

The Corvette ZR1 is a great car indeed.